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Thread: Warranty Advice - Page & Cooper

  1. #1

    Warranty Advice - Page & Cooper

    Update: resolved now, the H-Link bracelet and signed warranty card arrived today.

    I just received a Sinn watch from page and cooper (UK) and the Sinn warranty card has been left completely blank. Is this normal? Im aware it's maybe different when purchasing from an AD rather than Sinn direct bit just want to make sure...

    Even putting the AD's name and a date on it would have been better than nothing

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated, apologies if this is quite a straightforward question with an obvious answer.

    Thanks


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    Last edited by _Ferdia_; 13th September 2018 at 21:17. Reason: Update

  2. #2
    Master
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    No that isn't normal. I have had a few Sinn watches and all have been stamped and dated by the selling AD.

  3. #3
    Master Nigeyp's Avatar
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    A receipt would be much more use, a warranty is only a minor term in a contract whether valid or not. I expect if you don't have a receipt from a supplier, then you are a third party as regards the warranty with the manufacturer. Though the serial number of the watch should show the warranty is still in place by virtue of age. In practice I expect you will still end up paying should it fall short. Breach of warranty in any contract is pretty much a good will gesture. Find your receipt off a reputable supplier to prove your privity.

  4. #4
    Thanks for the replies. I'll be speaking with them on Monday about this as it didn't seem right to me. They apparently offer a 2 year warranty on this watch accorfing to the website, which I would expect them to uphold, I just didn't like the fact they send a blank card it just looked so fishy.

    This was an online purchase so all I have is an email acknowledging payment.

    As an aside they sent a leather strap instead of the metal bracelet that I ordered which was incredibly irritating and something they will need to rectify.



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  5. #5
    Master
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    Sounds generally unsatisfactory. In keeping with the experiences of others on the page and Cooper thread. One everyone should read prior to ordering from them.

  6. #6
    Master
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    They may be like 'Jura' and withhold the guarantee for two weeks, in case you return the watch...they fill in the card when it's clear you are keeping it.

  7. #7
    Master Nigeyp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefmcd View Post
    Sounds generally unsatisfactory. In keeping with the experiences of others on the page and Cooper thread. One everyone should read prior to ordering from them.
    not at all his contact and indeed contract (sic) is with page and cooper as long as he can prove that, the warranty is of little importance. Only for the purpose of the seller in its restrictive period. If he can prove he has the contract with p and c all is fine. It will take him through and beyond the warranty period as it contains conditions rather than just warranties....
    Last edited by Nigeyp; 18th August 2018 at 20:27.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by stefmcd View Post
    Sounds generally unsatisfactory. In keeping with the experiences of others on the page and Cooper thread. One everyone should read prior to ordering from them.
    Yes, I wish I did... Had I ordered from chronometer I would have saved £100 and probably had fewer issues.



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  9. #9
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigeyp View Post
    not at all his contact is with page and cooper as long as he can prove that, the warranty is of little importance. Only for the purpose of the seller in its restrictive period. If he can prove he has the contract with p and c all is fine. It will take him through and beyond the warranty period as it contains conditions rather than just warranties....
    I don't think you've read his whole post. An unsigned warranty and incorrect strap = unsatisfactory (to put it mildly)

  10. #10
    Master
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    Couldn't recommend Neil at Chronomaster highly enough. Great prices and service. Bought two 556A recently. He did a deal. Watches were delivered the next day and all paperwork was correct.

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  11. #11
    Master
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    I don’t understand why anybody in their right mind deals with them. Maybe for a strap but never for a watch (once bitten and all that and well documented here).


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  12. #12
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    My experience with some online sellers is to send with the warranty details left blank. Most offer no reasonable explanation when asked. However my last purchase from The Watch Company was accompanied by a signed letter stating the Warranty Booklet would be sent after 14 days ‘should I decide to keep the piece’.
    It did indeed follow after a couple of weeks, signed and dated with correct serial number.
    I can understand this practice....especially on booklets that have to be ‘filled in’.......if the watch is returned another booklet might not be immediately available for the ultimate purchaser.


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  13. #13
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Ferdia_ View Post
    Yes, I wish I did... Had I ordered from chronometer I would have saved £100 and probably had fewer issues.



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    Well, I’d imagine distance selling regs mean you should be able to return it within 14 days.

    Given you didn’t get what you ordered regarding the strap/bracelet, seems a good reason to send it back if you feel strongly about it.

  14. #14
    Master
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    Send it back, Get a refund and never deal with Page & Cooper again

  15. #15
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    This forum is some advertisement for the avoidance of P&C


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  16. #16
    Master WarrenVrs's Avatar
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    Shame, as they're the only ad I can find for zodiac. But I'd rather not risk dealing with them.

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  17. #17
    Master Tony's Avatar
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    Deal with Page and Cooper at your peril.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by steppy View Post
    Send it back, Get a refund and never deal with Page & Cooper again
    This, however, as the other thread suggests, they are not quick to dish out refunds. I would return it as ‘not as decribed’ i.e where is the bracelet? I would give them a time in writing to issue the refund then instruct my credit card provider to do a charge back (or whatever it’s called).
    I don’t understand how they seem to get so much wrong, I would be interested to know their response to sending out the wrong spec watch to you, my money is on them suggesting it looks better on a strap, perhaps Sir should keep it like that and buy a bracelet later if Sir desires.

  19. #19
    Master
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    I realise we are all supposed to pile in, attacking the company. But anyone noticed that the OP hasn't even spoken to them yet? As a simple guideline, probably best to make some attempt to sort things out before going public.
    After all, one call might result in a signed card and the bracelet. Any company deserves a chance . I've never dealt with them, but if they are so awful, they won't stay in business.
    BTW; I ordered a rain jacket from M and S, they sent the wrong size....three times.
    Last edited by paskinner; 19th August 2018 at 10:04.

  20. #20
    Master Tony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paskinner View Post
    Any company deserves a chance . I've never dealt with them, but if they are so awful, they won't stay in business.
    Hopefully they'll go out of business soon.

    For someone with no axe to grind, or indeed experience of this shower, you've been sticking up for them for long enough. This is from May 2016. Are you sure you don't have an interest in their survival?

    Quote Originally Posted by paskinner View Post
    Come on. the P and C guy didn't have to come onto the forum, most companies wouldn't because they don't think they can ever win in such an arena. Further, at any point they can be accused of airing private issues concerning a specific customer. The customer, on the other hand can hammer away as much as he likes.. which is odd in itself because when some people make similar types of complaint they are told not to air individual concerns on the forum.
    So which is it ? some chap came on here recently to air his concerns about a Patek and Watchfinder. He was treated quite sharply and told this wasn't a forum for consumer complaints. Now someone else makes consumer complaints and he's treated as entirely in the right.
    Maybe he is entirely justified, I don't know. What I do know is that if Page and Cooper feel there is more to this, they can hardly say so. Not in a public forum. They're on a hiding to nothing. All sorts of accusations about their behaviour, and the quality of their watchmaker, have been made...they've offered to talk personally to anyone sufficiently interested, and provided a phone number. That's a perfectly decent response...if people aren't happy, give them a ring.

  21. #21
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    There is an interesting point about warranty here.
    I filling out the guarantee to the customer, this should trigger the information being sent back to the manufacturer (by the AD) so that they know which watch was sold when, in order to be able to effectively honour the guarantee,
    If they have not filled in the customer bit, will they have told Sinn.
    A couple of years back I bought a 657, a long discontinued model, from a private seller, but one who had bought the watch new (from an AD) only 9 months before. A fault soon became apparent, and I got a warranty repair from Sinn, even though they must have sold it to the AD over 5 years previously. This happened because the AD had correctly informed Sinn when they sold the watch (and had correctly filled out the guarantee card too).
    Not doing this properly could render the guarantee considerably shorter if the watch has sat in stock for a while.

    In regard to the OP, send it straight back. You have overpaid (the bracelet is about £170 more than the leather) and been underdelivered. This (more than the card) means you should go elsewhere.

    Dave

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by paskinner View Post
    I realise we are all supposed to pile in, attacking the company. But anyone noticed that the OP hasn't even spoken to them yet? As a simple guideline, probably best to make some attempt to sort things out before going public.
    After all, one call might result in a signed card and the bracelet. Any company deserves a chance . I've never dealt with them, but if they are so awful, they won't stay in business.
    BTW; I ordered a rain jacket from M and S, they sent the wrong size....three times.
    No opportunity to call as yet, item recieved on a Saturday and I'm asking for advice before I speak with them on Monday

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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by phil h View Post
    This, however, as the other thread suggests, they are not quick to dish out refunds. I would return it as ‘not as decribed’ i.e where is the bracelet? I would give them a time in writing to issue the refund then instruct my credit card provider to do a charge back (or whatever it’s called).
    I don’t understand how they seem to get so much wrong, I would be interested to know their response to sending out the wrong spec watch to you, my money is on them suggesting it looks better on a strap, perhaps Sir should keep it like that and buy a bracelet later if Sir desires.
    If they go down that route I'd be genuinely surprised. I'm expecting them to rectify their mistake and fulfill the order (ie send out the bracelet that I should have recieved)

    They also need to explain the blank warranty card.

    They couldn't even be bothered putting in the basic strap changing tool in either, that was a nice additional kick in the face

    I'll see what they say on Monday and post an update, although I don't have high hopes

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  24. #24
    I’ve bought a Sinn from P&C in the past (before all the issues that came to light over the last few years I might add) and it came with a signed and dated warranty card. They seem a pretty shoddy outfit, I’d just get a refund and get the correct watch and bracelet with a signed warranty card (and peace of mind) from Chronomaster.


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  25. #25
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    Setting aside all the P&C issues, I still consider the sending of a blank warranty card on a distance sale to be fair and reasonable - but only if clear written explanation is given that the completed warranty will follow after the returns window has elapsed.


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  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by redshovel View Post
    Setting aside all the P&C issues, I still consider the sending of a blank warranty card on a distance sale to be fair and reasonable - but only if clear written explanation is given that the completed warranty will follow after the returns window has elapsed.


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    Thanks for that info redahovel that's really appreciated. I can understand that logic. Whether that was their intention to do or not I'll hopefully find out today.

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  27. #27
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by redshovel View Post
    Setting aside all the P&C issues, I still consider the sending of a blank warranty card on a distance sale to be fair and reasonable - but only if clear written explanation is given that the completed warranty will follow after the returns window has elapsed.


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    Why send the blank warranty card then? Would make more sense not to send it at all, as unless the buyer sends the card back to be filled in, then he'll end up with a filled out warranty card plus the blank one.

  28. #28
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    No. The fact that they sent a strap watch instead of a bracelet one, with no springbar tool and an incomplete guarantee card are together 3 examples that show they were not keeping their eye on the ball when they sent this out.
    If, as a dealer, you are not completing the guarantee because of a conscious decision to do so (test whether the customer will keep it) you would get the other two right, or at least have a card that explains the conduct sent with the watch.
    Dave

  29. #29
    Just called P&C (who I must say always answer quickly) and I'd like to give the following update on the conversation

    Regarding the blank warranty. Blamed on new member of staff not knowing this should be filled in. They recognise the card should not be blank and are sending one filled in to me.

    Regarding the wrong strap. Sinn did not have that ready at the time of shipping, so leather was put on with bracelet to be sent separately. This is to arrive in the next couple of weeks. I asked an obvious question as to why that wasn't explained to me before I recieved it, was explained as an oversight.

    Regarding the springbar tool, this was to arrive with the bracelet.

    Customer services were extremely apologetic and offered to send an email clarifying the points above. To be honest thia was a bit of a home run of errors, however if they deliver on their promises I'll consider this one resolved. I understand people make mistakes, it was the fact that there were 3 mistakes that tipped me over the edge.

    I'll put another update based on how the end of this experience goes, and if they deliver on their promises. Thanks everyone for the advice it's been really appreciated

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  30. #30
    Grand Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    And on the plus side, you got a free Sinn leather strap ...

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    And on the plus side, you got a free Sinn leather strap ...
    Haha yeah that's what they said to me on the phone... I really don't like shiny leather straps, although this is a good quality one I suppose

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  32. #32
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    I am glad it appears to have been solved and I hope they follow up on their promises but I do smell a wiff of BS when it come to their responses, especially the bracelet issue. Sinn charge a pretty penny for their leather straps so it does not make business sense to send the watch out on a free leather strap with the bracelet to follow; oh and they forgot to tell you about it; oh and the strap changing tool was due to come with the bracelet. - silly them!
    I hope it is all sorted out to your satisfaction.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnlover View Post
    I am glad it appears to have been solved and I hope they follow up on their promises but I do smell a wiff of BS when it come to their responses, especially the bracelet issue. Sinn charge a pretty penny for their leather straps so it does not make business sense to send the watch out on a free leather strap with the bracelet to follow; oh and they forgot to tell you about it; oh and the strap changing tool was due to come with the bracelet. - silly them!
    I hope it is all sorted out to your satisfaction.
    Maybe they've read this thread.

  34. #34
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Maybe they've read this thread.
    I hope they have and I hope they get their act together, I have said before that they sell a lot of the brands I like but after 2 poor experiences with them I won't deal with them.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnlover View Post
    I am glad it appears to have been solved and I hope they follow up on their promises but I do smell a wiff of BS when it come to their responses, especially the bracelet issue. Sinn charge a pretty penny for their leather straps so it does not make business sense to send the watch out on a free leather strap with the bracelet to follow; oh and they forgot to tell you about it; oh and the strap changing tool was due to come with the bracelet. - silly them!
    I hope it is all sorted out to your satisfaction.
    My thoughts exactly, why on earth not just tell me I need to wait another couple of weeks, or give me the option of a free leather strap to compensate the delay.

    As long as the watch they sent me was not something they had lying around for god knows how long and I recieved the signed warranty and bracelet etc I'll be happy enough. Although a bit shaken up by the experience.



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  36. #36
    Master
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    We'll see. There is certainly hope.

  37. #37
    Grand Master magirus's Avatar
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    Personally I'd return it and buy another from Chronomaster. P&C's excuses are just too pat. Can you imagine the hassle if there's a fault to be repaired under warranty? Also, somewhere down the line you may want to have the watch serviced. It'll mean waiting for a refund, and then buying another watch, but worth it in the long run in my opinion. I've bought and traded with Chronomaster, a pleasure to deal with.
    F.T.F.A.

  38. #38
    Thanks magirus, if I could go back in time I'd have gone with chronomaster, I just can't really be bothered with all the hassle of cancelling and waiting on the refund then waiting for another to get delivered.
    Also by the time I get a refund the prices might be due to go up as I believe that happens around September.

    For servicing, I hadn't foreseen that as being too much of an issue if I sent to Sinn direct to service?

    I know what you're saying is the best advice and you're right I probably should have asked for a refund but I'm hoping they resolve the basic errors for me quickly


    Quote Originally Posted by magirus View Post
    Personally I'd return it and buy another from Chronomaster. P&C's excuses are just too pat. Can you imagine the hassle if there's a fault to be repaired under warranty? Also, somewhere down the line you may want to have the watch serviced. It'll mean waiting for a refund, and then buying another watch, but worth it in the long run in my opinion. I've bought and traded with Chronomaster, a pleasure to deal with.
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    Last edited by _Ferdia_; 20th August 2018 at 11:26.

  39. #39
    Master
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    ''A bit shaken up by the experience''. Every company makes errors , and that includes some of the most trusted companies. One phone call has sorted it. One phone call. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.
    It's unfair. Give them a chance.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by paskinner View Post
    ''A bit shaken up by the experience''. Every company makes errors , and that includes some of the most trusted companies. One phone call has sorted it. One phone call. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.
    It's unfair. Give them a chance.
    A mountain out of a molehill... Honestly?

    I'll reserve judgement on whether you are correct on that statement until this one is concluded.

    I'm not here to bash P&C, I'm asking for help and advice which was kind enough to get. If I'm happy with how I'm treated at the end of this, like I said, I'll update the thread incliding an update on my first post. I'd hate to leave good service un-mentioned here, and on that note so far so good

    I know companies make mistakes but forgive me for having reservations over how I feel this one had the potential to pan out. I feel it's warranted

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    Last edited by _Ferdia_; 20th August 2018 at 12:06.

  41. #41
    Master Tony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Ferdia_ View Post
    A mountain out of a molehill... Honestly?

    I'll reserve judgement on whether you are correct on that statement until this one is concluded.

    I'm not here to bash P&C, I'm asking for help and advice which was kind enough to get. If I'm happy with how I'm treated at the end of this, like I said, I'll update the thread. I know companies make mistakes but forgive me for having reservations over how I feel this one has the potential to pan out. I feel it's warranted
    Ignore him. I think he was a bit damaged after he was outed by a couple of threads like this one. (Check out post #133.)

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...olex+complaint

  42. #42
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    Your quite correct Halfe......I sort of missed the fact they sent the blank warranty card instead of retaining it.

    Again it is a practice that one dealer used on me in the past. If you keep watch they will fill the warranty but you gotta go to the hassle of sending the booklet back.


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  43. #43
    Just to bring this one to a close, the bracelet and signed warranty card arrived today so am happy with that.
    Thanks again to everyone for your help and advice

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

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