I’ve been spending far too much time looking at Watchfinder & Co videos on YouTube – but they do have some seriously nice examples of the sort of timepiece that costs about the same as a decent car, and some intelligent commentary too.
What is evident bearing in mind the quality design and the handwork that goes into some of these watches, is that price (especially second hand) and product don't necessarily correlate.
Plainly fashion & whole page ads in swanky mags play a huge part in separating otherwise perfectly sensible people from large bundles of cash. But why, for example, would you want to pay huge money for the likes of Rolex, Breitling and the rest, when you can pick up a second-hand A Lange or Moser & Cie for not much more, and have a much, much better example of high-end watchmaking.
What would be your preferred haute horologie model / brand that nobody other than a WIS head of?
There are a few that are under appreciated by us watch nerds let alone normal people. Piaget for example make some outstanding movements. JlC are highly thought of but given their movements are found in a few high end brands, perhaps they are a little underrated. Personally though I'm always amazed at how much cheaper a second hand Vacheron Overseas compared to an AP RO or a Patek Nautilus
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Bulgari. I thought they were just fashion junk, until I saw their Finissimos, particularly the Skeleton and tourbillon and was informed on here that they're very much a big watch movement deal and have been for years and years!
Anyone who follows Tim Mosso on 'Watchbox' will soon realise that there is a long list of first-rate manufacturers who are largely neglected.
My own choice would be Glashutte Original, quite close to ALS quality at a fraction of the price . Zenith is another, compare their CP2 Chrono with a Daytona...which sells at three times the price.
But then, all 'Luxury' markets are like this.
I would say Vacheron , agree with the previous Overseas comment.... better watch in almost every respect to the ROO
Grand Seiko has to get a mention also.
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Love the Vacheron Constantine suggestions but would also offer Breguet - a particular favourite of George Daniels too and he should know a thing or two.
Lange. If I have an exit watch it would be something like the simple Saxonia, or a Lange 1. GO have a lot of the ALS feel, something a Panoreserve in Steel punches way above its price point. To be honest,there is a lot of excellence in an inexpensive Nomos.
Dave
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Zenith, although they haven’t helped themselves over recent years.
Good topic. No idea. Marketing approach and budget driving high street appeal.
I tried on a Lange Saxonia ultra thin recently, utterly stunning,
It would be the zeitwerk for me :)Originally Posted by helidoc
Grand Seiko. Got to be.
Sadly many (as mentioned) but money is safer in a Rolex than used vc overseas for example. The vc keeps on depreciating where Rolex doesn’t.
Having owned one for almost two years and tried on a few others, I would say Moser.
A Lange Sohne
RIAC
I'm a Moser fanboi
Last edited by endo; 16th August 2018 at 19:17.
I'd say zenith, nomos and glashutte.
But I own a zenith, am picking up a nomos tomorrow and I'm listing after a glashutte
So I am probs biased... Or maybe a value investor
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Linde Werdelin, Parmigani and Seiko Credor.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Very good choices but the obvious one is FP Journe.
Zenith and Linde Werdelin.
This, in all aspects.
I’d say zenith. They’ve had a few hiccups on the way but overall a very fine watch brand
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Blimey - you can get a decent non chrono s/h VC overseas for £4-5k vs £16-17k new (if Im reading that right).
They look spectacular - esp the perpetual calendar. Im buying a lottery ticket right now.
That was not the OP's question.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
There are a few brands that fall into this category, but for me It would be Corum.
Sublime build quality with some stunning designs, but still massively underrated or overlooked.
This is a terrible photo of my latest one...
I'm sure I've seen one on here, but we don't often see many Breguet Type XX for some reason. Not into chronos but I do love this. Nice size at 40mm too and can be had for Rolex money.
Also have serious lust for a Moritz Grossmann - all hand made including the movements - especially the Benu with enamel dial or the Atum in white. Other colours/models are available.
Michael Kors or maybe Armani do it for me....
...in all seriousness, I love Zenith and having watched a ALS rotor being hand engraved in the Harrods boutique, they're simply works of art.
Moser and Cie, Credor, Lange & Sohne. In the mid tier level it still baffles me why some people psychologically associate Rolex at a materially higher level than Omega.
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I vote for Ulysse Nardin
Probably because Rolex excel at every level of watchmaking compared to the comparatively poor quality of Swa... sorry Omega.
I would agree with Moritz Grossman above, superb finish and design, my favourite discovery when I visited baselworld a few years ago. A bit pricey for me unfortunately.
I wouldnt say FP journe is underrated considering the waiting lists they have, but It's a brand Id love to own.
Another mention for Chopard LUC range, lovely movements and watches, but they still lack that certain je ne sais quois that immediately shouts "chopard" when viewed from a distance, also a bit strange choice of sizes at times. Their new minute repeater with sapphire gongs is amazing.
Surprisingly for even less than Rolex moneyI'm sure I've seen one on here, but we don't often see many Breguet Type XX for some reason. Not into chronos but I do love this. Nice size at 40mm too and can be had for Rolex money.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F283049869061
For me, it's less about the brand and more about the specific models.
There are 20 JLC's i dislike for 1 i like very much.
Same goes for AP, ALS, VC, FP Journe and a few others.
PP and Rolex have this particularity that (for me at least), they have much more models in their range that i could be happy with that models that i would not be happy with.
It's a bit like music: i like certain songs but i rarely like the entire album that they belong to.
That is truly lovely.
Also have serious lust for a Moritz Grossmann - all hand made including the movements...
There is something especially attractive about the deck watch format.
Habring2
You could get a gen 1 VC overseas for 4-6k
You could get a gen 2 VC overseas for 6-8
You could get the current gen 3 VC overseas for 11-13k , i've yet to see one go below this price. ( This is the current model that retails for £17.5k)
VC is underrated massively IMO at the higher end along with Moser, Lange always seems to be well known but don't have a sports watch so are less talked about.
A Lange Sohne, although prices are insane. Zenith - I love my El Primero.
Not true actually - older model Overseas dropped about as far as they ever will when newer versions came out, and have been gradually creeping up since, as availability of good ones decreases and the cost of new models goes ever upwards. Obviously it depends on which model you’re comparing with as particularly sought after Rolex will obviously do well, but most new or old Rolex are not necessarily a better bet.
Thing is, companies like Lange are not 'under rated' are they? I think they are seen as one of the best manufacturers in the world. Their reputation is sky high. Same with `stuff like Grand Seiko . Granted the general public don't rate them; but the general public has barely heard of any high end brands apart from Rolex. Even then, ask what a ' Daytona' is and you'l get a blank stare.
Vacheron
Breguet
FP Journe
Laurent Ferrier
I find it odd that Meistersinger don't get more attention. However not sure if this fits in this category.
I'm very interested in all the responses - thanks for your views.
On reflection, Im not sure if I should have characterised the issue as being "underrated" - there are plainly of manufacturers whose output is exquisite, but the prices they command are testament to the fact that some people rate them enough to spend the dosh (Laurent Ferrier. Blimey) .
I think Vacheron hit the spot I was trying to identify. They appear to have all the heritage and craftsmanship of PP, but (as best as I can compare) they are cheaper - certainly the Overseas s/h market looks like a pool of bargains compared to other £5k watches.
The other brand that has all the heritage and none of the seeming over-pricing is Breguet. Do they still have the craftsmanship? Why is a s/h Classique half the price of a PP Calatrava for instance (or isn't that a fair comparison?)
If I did happen to have £10k to spend on a watch, I suspect it would be on a Lange - although frankly, even a s/h Dornbluth is beyond my reach presently.
Like others I don't know why Zenith aren't more popular, Ulysse Nardin is also an itch I intend scratching before it's too late.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
I find this thread extremely interesting because I have spent the last year trying to build a collection of pieces which offer high quality, good design and engineering, and in-house movements at prices lower than technically equivalent (or often less good) "sexily marketed" brands.
I should however point out that "resale value" is of little interest to me as selling a watch is pretty much an anathema, and I don't value "heritage" (whatever that is) as I'm interested in what a manufacturer is doing now, rather than what they did seventy years ago.
So, reading the posts above, I find myself very much in tune with much of your thinking -- having recently picked up:
-- three from Glashütte Original,
-- one from Nomos,
-- one from Dornblüth,
-- one from Zenith, and
-- one from Moser
And, none of them for what I would consider "silly money" -- in fact (though admittedly only two GOs and the Moser were new -- the rest came from fine members of this forum (chapeau!)) I picked up all seven for about 75% of the asking price for a new Nautilus on Chronext.
Long live "under-appreciated brands"
And, my next target is a Moritz Grossmann.
.
Last edited by Yokel; 21st August 2018 at 11:25.
Zenith, Vacheron Constantin, Bvlgari
Back in the day Longines.
I've had watches from all 4, oddly enough all chronographs too! Never disappointed in fact surprised and delighted, sometimes, I wish I'd kept them, but hey you have to keep moving forward................ Or so I've been told
Lately been attracted to glashutte....! Look undervalued especially when looking at IWC as competitor or A. Langhe & Sohne as a watch a level above ....
In my experience, Glashutte is way superior to IWC; for a start it manufacturers all it's own movements, none of the Eta movements in watches costing several thousand pounds. The general feel and quality of design seems to have more integrity.
For some reason, Swatch don't bother to market Glashutte with any real commitment' but this is a true 'sleeper' of a brand. And incidentally, it's arguably got a better history than Lange. Although , because of the Marxist period, it's all a bit tangled.
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Last edited by paskinner; 21st August 2018 at 10:32.
In my experience, Glashutte is way superior to IWC; for a start it manufacturers all it's own movements, none of the Eta movements in watches costing several thousand pounds. The general feel and quality of design seems to have more integrity.
For some reason, Swatch don't bother to market Glashutte with any real commitment' but this is a true 'sleeper' of a brand. And incidentally, it's arguably got a better history than Lange. Although , because of the Marxist period, it's all a bit tangled.
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Oh, I think they do market the brand -- but mainly in Asia.
Certainly agree with you about the quality feel of GO. Long may it remain a "non-mainstream" brand in Europe
It's interesting how Dornbleuth have fallen of the radar over recent years - I piked up a 99.0 here many years ago, and it's still a favourite.
I too would love to try a 42mm Vacheron Overseas chrono, but not at WF prices !
Very impressed with the quality of my Nomos, definitely flies under the radar compared to my zenith and rolexes
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