Reply With QuoteIs this againt new or used and which model are you looking to purchase?Originally Posted by Mj2k
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Currently looking to trade my 25k mile JCW which has pretty much most options w/e/o parking assist. Comes with Media XL, Tech Packs plus the JCW Bluetooth exhaust. 2 years old on a 66 plate, with me being the first owner from new.
BMW dealer low ball starting offer takes no account of the desirable packs on the car. I appreciate that some of the options, such as heated windscreen have zero value when selling, but make it easier to sell. Parkers is suggesting that with the packs, mine is a trade in of £18k, dealer has offered significantly lower....lower than WBAC, so is a bit of an extreme opening!
They said they don't put any value on the packs, but equally seem to place value on options on the BMW I want to trade it in for. Go figure - cake & eat it scenario!
Looking at the prices on dealer forecourts, they will sell for about £5-6k more than they have offered me. Even their own franchise is selling a low spec JCW for £18.5k which is pretty much a 19% markup for reselling. They also seem to have a much higher 'value' on their stock, potentially making 35% margin on my car.
Anyone have any view as to what margins / £k profit they try to turn on each sale?
Thanks
Matt
Is this againt new or used and which model are you looking to purchase?
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Its amazing the value that options have when your buying, but have no value when you are selling!
unless you have a forecourt the second hand car market is dire at the moment, do buyers buy a used one or rent one for a fraction of the initial outlay.
We have just swapped one BMW for another - they beat WBAC by about £500.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Go value it on webuyanycar, if near the trade-in take it then buy the next via the net such as drivethedeal, cutting said dealer out if it.
Options are pretty valueless, you tend to learn this lesson once!
Try Evans Halshaw if you have one locally. They actually offered my within £50 of their online valuation and that was way above WBAC and actually more than it was was advertised on Autotrader for. Short inspection and test drive then money transferred. It wasn’t a rare car either (Volvo S60 D5) but it did have very low miles.
I was very sceptical initially but it might be worth a look at their online quote first.
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Pretty much my experience is that loads of options do not hugely increase the trade in, and minor dings etc. Do not devalue it hugely either.
If they want your custom they will move.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Used against a used M4, which funnily enough they do have the value of the optional kit included in their price.
I’ve no issue if my trade is what the guide spits out online, but then it needs to be similar for both parts of the equation. The M4 is over priced & it just comes down to cost of change.
TBH based on this offer, they can make £5-6k on mine, and if the M4 trade in was similarly low balled then £12k there in profit too.
My car is immaculate & the original salesman commented it needed for nothing & would just be put on the forecourt.
Just seems a bit high on their profit....appreciate people need to pay for shiny dealerships, but always saw that was the new purchases lol.
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I sort of agree regarding options, yet there are certain things a mini needs to be saleable. Chilli & Media being the minimum really. These options certainly have a value on the cars they have in stock on their forecourt, just not in their offer.
Yet magically they will regain the value once they come to sell it!!
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Agree, but why waste a couple of days opening with such a daft offer that almost makes me walk prior to any discussion.
Car I want is through another of their group, so will just head to them directly at the weekend.
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Phone round a few Mini dealers and offer it for sale, that should give an indication of what it is worth. I used to buy Minis and BMWs for a main dealer and nice stock was always difficult to find. I can't imagine that a £5/6,000 mark up is realistic on such a car. A Mini dealer would be quite please if they retain £1,500 on a used car in that price range.
That’s true!
Thank you - very interesting & where I’d thought it should be, roughly.
I have sent the dealer 4 cars from minis website and then a few from their franchise highlighting where their retail vs trade in appear to be somewhat disconnected.
Will see what happens.
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At least Dick Turpin wore a mask!!That’s true!
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Yeah, they are trying to get it at both ends, if the M4 is an ex-demo car they will have a chunk of margin in it, even if a regular p/x I would expect they have 12 - 15% margin in the price.Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
Deff not ex demo. 12-15 is what I thought might be there.
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What does the M4 price come up as on somewhere like WBAC?.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Hadn’t done WBAC but did via Parker’s.
About 3k lower than they have it for.
Currently awaiting a call where this will be raised!
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This is why i gave up on buying and went to leasing years ago the thought of dealing with somebody in a shiny suit and pointy shoes does not do it for me and that is my local MB dealership.
Get the best deal on either WBAC or Evans Halshaw and use something like Carwow for the newbie there are deals to be had.
Alas not the deals to get me into an M4.
Agree with you on the shiny suit brigade, although the sales person in the dealership (not the one from their mini division) was not in the annoying camp whatsoever.
His counterpart that I haven’t met however just seems a little annoying ...and my friends simply suggested it is because I’m not getting what I want!
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I didn’t end up buying a mini for this reason. The options / packs are needed to get a decent spec but worth nothing when you trade on. When the dealer sells they are of course an added premium.
Best of luck, I feel your pain
Thanks!
Mini forums seem empty of any gen3 for sale. Seems there is only 1 other JCW available privately across PistonHeads & AT, never seem anything quite like it before.
Think I have some pain ahead.
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Similar thing with Porsche, if it’s poverty spec it affects the desirability immensely. Fully loaded cars of all shapes and sizes sell well. My last few cars have always been top spec and when sold (very quickly privately), most buyers comment, your spec was exactly what I was looking for...what a load of rubbish that extras on a car make no difference.
Best advice here. Sell your car private, then go to a dealer with an m4 and bid them in the nuts.
I do this all the time, sell private and buy private unless pre reg or new of course
My M3 was a pre-registration. 10 weeks old with 13 miles on the clock. List £69400. They had it up at £52,995, I got it for £48350. Play them at their own game
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Best advice here. Sell your car private, then go to a dealer with an m4 and bid them in the nuts.
I do this all the time, sell private and buy private unless pre reg or new of course
My M3 was a pre-registration. 10 weeks old with 13 miles on the clock. List £69400. They had it up at £52,995, I got it for £48350. Play them at their own game
But pre registered means second hand, so you cannot really compare to the new price, only used. Exactly how old was the car when you bought it?
Exactly, you did not get the coup you believe - pre-reg is often a discounted item to the dealer network which is why it ends up pre-reg.
Private sales are painful and not worth the hassle in my experience.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I was offered £4k for my Discovery 3 when I traded it against a brand new Hilux.
I sold it privately within a day for £9k, as that was still around £1-2k less than most other D3's at the time on Autotrader.
I would be very surprised if your JCW would didn't sell in a flash privately with that spec. I know its a bit of hassle, but the numbers are not insignificant, so it may be worth considering. (I appreciate it is a potential load of grief from tire-kicking morons though).
My experience differs. And it is definitely worth the hassle when a private sale yields a £5k price improvement over a dealer offer...
Might be worth putting up on Pistonheads and here
Should be easy to sell on privately, and as Enoch says £5k is a lot just to put up with some tyre kickers
Sold most of my cars privately and never had any issues
Simon
Exactly my thoughts and experience too.
My last two cars have sold within a couple of hours to straight forward people with no BS or tyre kicking and yielded way higher values that I could achieve with a trade in.
£5k for a few hours grief is a pretty good hourly rate in my book!
I do know why people hate selling cars though, I once advertised an old MGB Roadster, one guy said it was exactly what he was after, but refused to buy it as it didn't have a picnic boot rack fitted!?
There are some real nutters out there.
^^^^ tell me about it, I was once selling a Honda CRX Vtec in Celestial Blue..
Had a guy turn up, loved the car, but was looking for a silver one......go figure.. Best of all it was advertised on a CRX forum... Loads of pictures and it was a well known car as I’d also bought it off there myself...
Tidy ones of those are now in the £15k league, I thought I did well at £2.8k as I’d bought it 18 months earlier for £2.5k😋😋
It is very strange that there is only one other JCW for sale privately. Very strange.
Halshaw came in about £500 higher than WBAC so moving the right way.
Will pop it up on PH and see what happens. I’m moving slower than previously now as the job I was hoping to land hasn’t & next role might be co-car vs allowance thus restricting my ability.
If it sells ahead of me being ready for the next car, will just have to take the Z4M out of the garage for a few weeks longer than I’d normally do until I know what next car option becomes.
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All my older stuff seems to be worth more than I sold it for, my S2000 being one I should have kept onto a while longer.^^^^ tell me about it, I was once selling a Honda CRX Vtec in Celestial Blue..
Had a guy turn up, loved the car, but was looking for a silver one......go figure.. Best of all it was advertised on a CRX forum... Loads of pictures and it was a well known car as I’d also bought it off there myself...
Tidy ones of those are now in the £15k league, I thought I did well at £2.8k as I’d bought it 18 months earlier for £2.5k
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All that type of stuff is going up because all the modern stuff is so bloated and devoid of feeling.
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If you want the most money then a bit of legwork and a few good images with a well written advert will sell it private.
If you want to dump it on a dealer for ease who will have to sell it and yes they will make a profit for the effort they put in then take the easy route and dont drip about the offer, if you had asked and they quoted £2000 more than you wanted then I doubt you would have said ‘oh no thats too much'
I brought the last motor private on auto trader and sold the daughters car on there with ease
RIAC
^ Yes, it’s just the scale of gap vs what they will sell it for for doing sweet FA that grates. The fact they are lower than the WBAC / Halshaw, and even one dealer I phoned up asking for a price to purchase it outright without any trade in.
Obviously the dealership I’ve chosen has hit all their targets for the month already as they’ve not bothered to even call me back since Monday when I pushed back on their initial offer. Or maybe based on their markup they’ve hit profit targets already.
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Maybe the colour is putting them off?
It's just a matter of time...
Why continue to engage with them, find another dealer who has the car you want, if you can’t find one, there will be one along very quickly
I suspect they might be more interested in September?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I’d list your JCW on sales corner if I were you. Lovely cars, I miss my F56 Cooper S Works 210.
Great car, do you want a picture:-)
Last edited by adrianw; 17th August 2018 at 09:12.
They have to pay 20% vat on any profit and then there's the tax... and then there's the possible financial outgoings of any warranty claims on the car they sell, plus the length of time they have the money tied up before the car is sold and the potential of the vehicle reducing in value the longer they have it. .
So in reality not such a high profit as your figures would suggest.
But still under manufacturers warranty, so not a concern for them. If they price it correct without greed, it sells, if they chase too high, depreciation can kick in.
I have to pay VAT on the invoices I issue through my company, and tax on my profits. Still work my business model to drive value for all parties, not just myself when quoting.
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It might be a concern since I suspect this is a recharge issue via the manufacturer - found this out when we had an issue with the X5 we had. Escalated to BMW in Germany before repairs were authorised (and I suspect paid for via a recharge from the dealer).
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
No but it's amazing trying to buy that car off a dealer 2nd hand how much they do increase the value which they got for free.
I think I want to buy it back!
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What colour is the car Matt?
But you also add the vat to the invoices in the first place. Car dealers pay vat on the profit between buying and selling.
Everyone thinks Car Dealers should be benevolent societies, not businesses. They have huge overheads.
If I was to go along to a dealer to buy a £25k car- I would expect there to be £1k ‘wiggle-room’ factored into their price.
It’s Silver White, or White Silver; always forget which way around! Lovely metallic fleck in the paint that really lifts it, and one of those colours that doesn’t look dirty.
Same colour combo as the one I had a few cars prior:
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Fair point on the VAT.
Regarding wiggle room, if we use the same valuation tool on my car & theirs, trade in vs forecourt, they’re significantly under the guide on mine, and significantly over on theirs.
They’ve put the price up by £1k on theirs since June when they got the car, so are clearly adding another £1k wiggle room on top of the £2k they’re over guide price.
Will not be using them as a dealer anyway as still not received a call back from them, even to say they have no movement. I find a lack of communication extremely rude, obviously their targets are so low they don’t need to bother following up leads.
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