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Thread: A black James Bond!!

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by seikopath View Post
    Not sure if you are aware of this, but Bond is a fictional character. Mandela is a historical figure.
    Ok, maybe i should have said Othello or Tom Robinson or Shaft, but my reasoning remains the same, I wouldn't want a "white" guy to play those parts. They are what they are.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Nev View Post
    Sorry, but this PC crap is going to far.

    I could not give one flying feck if someone is yellow, green, white, brown, red or any other colour under the sun, nor could i care less what god on what day you worship.

    What i can tell you is certain things should not change for the sake of PC bollox and Bond is one of them, sorry but thats how i feel. Yes, it was written in a time and an era BUT that is the essence of the books and should be adhered to in the translation of them.

    Perhaps someone would like to cast me a 50yr old, fat, white, short Irish bloke as the lead role in the film dedicated to the life story of Nelson Mandela? No?? Thought not.

    Racism? No. Sick of the bullshit? Yes.

    **for clarity I've had a glass or 2 of wine but the general feeling adheres!
    Nelson Mandela was a real person incase you hadn't noticed and being black was quite a key part of his story. Not really comparable to Bond who has is fictional and has been played by actors of different nationalities and appearances.

    Question for you. If Idris was white would he make a good Bond?

  3. #53
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nev View Post
    Ok, maybe i should have said Othello or Tom Robinson or Shaft, but my reasoning remains the same, I wouldn't want a "white" guy to play those parts. They are what they are.
    So did you kick up a fuss when Ben Kingsley played gandhi?
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  4. #54
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    This kind of comment is symptomatic of institutionalised racism. Bond is white because it’s a story told by white men. There’s no reason he can’t be depicted as a man of colour in 2018, and be more diverse to reflect contemporary culture. If Hamlet and Macbeth can be portrayed on stage by men and women of all shades there’s no reason why a contemporary version of a 60+ year old character can’t be either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nev View Post
    Sorry, but this PC crap is going to far.

    I could not give one flying feck if someone is yellow, green, white, brown, red or any other colour under the sun, nor could i care less what god on what day you worship.

    What i can tell you is certain things should not change for the sake of PC bollox and Bond is one of them, sorry but thats how i feel. Yes, it was written in a time and an era BUT that is the essence of the books and should be adhered to in the translation of them.

    Perhaps someone would like to cast me a 50yr old, fat, white, short Irish bloke as the lead role in the film dedicated to the life story of Nelson Mandela? No?? Thought not.

    Racism? No. Sick of the bullshit? Yes.

    **for clarity I've had a glass or 2 of wine but the general feeling adheres!
    Last edited by Ummar01; 12th August 2018 at 23:50.

  5. #55
    I really don’t get some of the posters here . Some of the bull story , gadgets is easy to believe but the idea of Bond being black isn’t???

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by seikopath View Post
    So did you kick up a fuss when Ben Kingsley played gandhi?
    Not the best example he’s half Indian .

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchcollector1 View Post
    Nelson Mandela was a real person incase you hadn't noticed and being black was quite a key part of his story. Not really comparable to Bond who has is fictional and has been played by actors of different nationalities and appearances.

    Question for you. If Idris was white would he make a good Bond?
    See my reply above. And take it into consideration with my initial comments.

  8. #58
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagletower View Post
    I really don’t get some of the posters here . Some of the bull story , gadgets is easy to believe but the idea of Bond being black isn’t???
    I don't get it either. They didn't get real hobbits to play the roles in LOTR either, so why all the fuss now

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by eagletower View Post
    Not the best example he’s half Indian .
    Which half?
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  9. #59
    His dad was from India , he was born Krishna pandit banji but changed it to Ben Kingsley .

  10. #60
    Master -Ally-'s Avatar
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    The worst half ?

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ummar01 View Post
    This kind of comment is symptomatic of the institutionalised racism. Bond is white because it’s a story told by a white men. There’s no reason he can’t be depicted as a man of colour in 2018, and be more diverse to reflect contemporary culture. If Hamlet and Macbeth can be portrayed on stage by men and women of all shades there’s no reason why a contemporary version of a 60+ year old character can’t be either.
    Actually you know what, that is bob on and reasoned. And you are correct.

  12. #62
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagletower View Post
    His dad was from India , he was born Krishna pandit banji but changed it to Ben Kingsley .
    OK fair cop. But what about when he played the Jewish bloke in schindlers list. Is he half Jewish as well?
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  13. #63
    Master -Ally-'s Avatar
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    Straw man alert.

  14. #64

    A black James Bond!!

    Quote Originally Posted by seikopath View Post
    OK fair cop. But what about when he played the Jewish bloke in schindlers list. Is he half Jewish as well?
    Superb example an Indian playing a Jew is almost absurd as a black man playing bond according to some folk here!

    In fact I can no longer take any of his films seriously a lot of them were English characters and this blokes Indian. What the hell were the directors playing at!

  15. #65
    A big budget spy movie with Idris as the lead will be fantastic, and one I'd pay to see. But he's got one hell of a task trying to convince an audience he's of a Scottish and Swiss decent, grew up on a Scottish country estate, went to public school and was a Naval Commander. If he pulls that off he'll be the first Bond to lift and Oscar.

  16. #66
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagletower View Post
    Superb example an Indian playing a Jew is almost absurd as a black man playing bond according to some folk here!

    In fact I can no longer take any of his films seriously a lot of them were English characters and this blokes Indian. What the hell were the directors playing at!
    Apparently the bloke that played gandalf wasn't a real wizard either
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    To keep it real it's long overdue for next Bond to be gay ;)
    If this was the case, he wouldn't be called James Bond, he'd be called Uni-Bond........

    Good at filling cracks.

  18. #68

    A black James Bond!!

    Quote Originally Posted by seikopath View Post
    So did you kick up a fuss when Ben Kingsley played gandhi?
    Speaking of browned up white actors - white actor fisher Stevens played Ben in short circuit . I was convinced the actor was Indian for years - bloody good make up artist !
    Last edited by eagletower; 12th August 2018 at 23:47.

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Nev View Post
    See my reply above. And take it into consideration with my initial comments.
    Yes noted. Shaft is a much better example but I'd argue being black is a core part of his character whilst Bond is white in the original books because they were set in the 50s when the vast majority of Britains were white and being a black undercover agent in the 1st world would have been unthinkable.

    But the film's are set in the modern day and surely it's the Britishness, good looks, personality and character traits of Bond that are important and in that context I don't see why Bond being black is PC nonsense.

    Whether Idris is the best man for the role (ignoring his colour) is up for debate anyway but if he was white I'm sure he'd be on a shortlist for it. So why shouldn't he be considered just because he is black?

    Personally I think he'd be a good fit as Bond.
    Last edited by watchcollector1; 13th August 2018 at 01:10.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    A big budget spy movie with Idris as the lead will be fantastic, and one I'd pay to see. But he's got one hell of a task trying to convince an audience he's of a Scottish and Swiss decent, grew up on a Scottish country estate, went to public school and was a Naval Commander. If he pulls that off he'll be the first Bond to lift and Oscar.
    Because a black person can't be Scottish / Swiss, go to Public School and be in the Navy?

  21. #71
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    I have absolutely no problem with casting a black actor as James Bond - - unless it is specifically for the 'statement' it will make about being PC. Personally, I cast my vote for the amazing Tom Hardy...but if there is a black (or green) British actor who could do the role better justice, more power to him!

    I could even imagine Cate Blanchett as a female 007! Jaime Bond?

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by watchcollector1 View Post
    Because a black person can't be Scottish / Swiss, go to Public School and be in the Navy?
    Lol!

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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by seikopath View Post
    OK fair cop. But what about when he played the Jewish bloke in schindlers list. Is he half Jewish as well?
    His mother was of middle European Jewish heritage apparently.

  24. #74
    This thread has been done before in fact a few years ago, makes you wonder if Idris is a forum member and he just tweeted this to start a TZ meltdown.

    Felix and Money Penny have both been played by black actors and nobody seems to have noticed (Or cared) In Skyfall when various secret agents were getting assassinated around the world it was made clear there were 007 agents of different ethnic backgrounds. I am personally not too sure about Idris as the next Bond nor am I entirely sure this is anything more than just pointless speculation.

  25. #75
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    His mother was of middle European Jewish heritage apparently.
    OK, OK. What about when he played that rabbit in watership down??
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  26. #76
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    Sure we will have a non-binary Bond at some time, Canada will probably help with how we should address him

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by seikopath View Post
    OK, OK. What about when he played that rabbit in watership down??
    Surely you're splitting hares now, Dave...

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    I read they’re going the whole hog, one leg’d Black lesbian single mother with Aids.
    Or even Jackie Chann

  29. #79
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Kenney View Post
    Surely you're splitting hares now, Dave...
    This conversation went down the rabbit hole a long time ago
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  30. #80
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    Tokenism is the practice of making only a perfunctory or symbolic effort to be inclusive to members of minority groups, especially by recruiting a small number of people from underrepresented groups in order to give the appearance of racial or sexual equality within a workforce.[1][2][3] The effort of including a token employee to a workforce is usually intended to create the impression of social inclusiveness and diversity (racial, religious, sexual, etc.) in order to deflect accusations of discrimination.[4]

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  31. #81
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    I don't care what colour Bond is but I don't rate Idris Elba as an actor and also agree he is too old

    Didn't like Daniel Craig's JB either, he plays the character as a thug with no class , but Bond was privately educated and a Commander in the Royal Navy

    They have turned Bond into Mission Impossible imo, but if thats what sells , thats what sells

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    To keep it real it's long overdue for next Bond to be gay ;)
    Surely Craig's Bond has already suggested he's dabbled?

    The bigger surprise would have been if a public schoolboy hadn't...

    Surely Craig's Bond owes far more to Bourne than MI...

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  33. #83
    Craftsman WhopperSenior's Avatar
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    I don't have an issue with a black bond and I think Idris Elba is very capable. His performance in the wire was very good and I've seen him in some good things since.

  34. #84
    I was outraged when Felix Leiter was played by a black man, I'd only just got over the casting of Dr. No. Vijay Amritraj was excellent though.

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    Surely Craig's Bond has already suggested he's dabbled?

    The bigger surprise would have been if a public schoolboy hadn't...

    Surely Craig's Bond owes far more to Bourne than MI...

    M

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  36. #86
    Holy crap. You man-jewellery fanciers sure are touchy about your precious make-believe spy-story man, huh? :P

  37. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Belligero View Post
    Holy crap. You man-jewellery fanciers sure are touchy about your precious make-believe spy-story man, huh? :P
    James Bond is a British institution. It's like suggesting we drink green tea as a national drink.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Tokenism is the practice of making only a perfunctory or symbolic effort to be inclusive to members of minority groups, especially by recruiting a small number of people from underrepresented groups in order to give the appearance of racial or sexual equality within a workforce.[1][2][3] The effort of including a token employee to a workforce is usually intended to create the impression of social inclusiveness and diversity (racial, religious, sexual, etc.) in order to deflect accusations of discrimination.[4]
    Or maybe they just asked a few actors and Elba was the best of those chosen?


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  39. #89
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    I'm for greater representation of minorities in movies - as well as all types of work. Working in London 12 years ago, I was shocked at how the diversity I saw on the streets of London completely vanished when I entered my workplace. At one of my clients, I came across a total of 2 non-white people in the whole building! That has changed dramatically since then. A black Bond might seem unpalatable to some now but I think (hope!) this kind of thing will be a non-issue in 5 years.

    The argument of hypocrisy (e.g. a white actor could never play Mandela) fails to understand the why this is happening in the first place - that minorities are not receiving the same opportunities and are being under-represented. I do agree however that internet trolls take it too far when they try to hound decent people who have done nothing wrong other than accept a role they have been offered.

    Putting the Racism Vs PC-ism Vs Tokenism debate to one side, this is very clever stuff from the franchise. Creating all the debate keeps the franchise fresh in people's minds - especially with the younger audience.

  40. #90
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    Jeez, I can't believe that colour is even an issue. There seems to be a lot of racist comments, made by people saying they aren't racists.


    Just for the sake of showing precedent:


    Moneypenny



    Felix Leiter

  41. #91
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    I read all the JB books before I started 'big school'. They had quite a profound effect on me and kicked off my interests in cars, watches and guns. My parents weren't the 'sharpest tools' and didn't realise that they were of an adult nature (for that time).
    I loved the fillums mainly because Sean Connery was the perfect casting and the scripts were reasonably accurate and any changes were mostly contextual and positive.
    The only other actor who made a reasonable job of it imo was George Lazenby even if he was a bit wooden and Pierce Brosnan who is a good actor
    I have not watched any other actor in the role and I wouldn't.
    James Bond was a Scot with a Swiss mother, bilingual, tall/dark/ugly attractive, and dangerous being proficient with weapons and physical combat. Connery fit the role perfectly.
    So for me any so-called Bond fillum with anyone other than the aforementioned is a ridiculous travesty and betrayal of the original idea and if they want to cast any colour, gender, disability, transwoman or whatever modern lefty/sjw/pc creature it makes no difference I won't be watching it. Just more silly crap.

  42. #92
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    Bond films lost their excitement for me during Brosnan's tenure. I really couldn't care less about them any more.

    I think the choice of lead actor is less important than the story, direction etc in determining the film's quality. The past 15 years has seen plodding, po-faced films that have none of the drama, excitement, style and humour of goldfinger or the spy who lived me.

    So they can cast who they like. Unless they sort the real problems, I'll pass. I remember about 10 years ago Tarantino's name was in the frame to direct. I've always been curious how that would've turned out.

  43. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by watchcollector1 View Post
    But the film's are set in the modern day and surely it's the Britishness, good looks, personality and character traits of Bond that are important and in that context I don't see why Bond being black is PC nonsense.
    Precisely, who cares? Bond being black is in no way mutually exclusive to maintaining the essential appeal & popularity of the character.

  44. #94

  45. #95
    Excellent!

    I cannot see any reason for the colour of the actor to be an issue nowadays. There is very little other than a few characters names to link the modern Bond films to the books of Ian Fleming or the era in which he wrote them (and they're no longer the basis of the films nowadays). Given IF's attitudes to race and women I doubt he'd want to be associated with any of the recent ones anyway.

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  46. #96
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    There was that green bird in star trek and no one batted an eyelid
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  47. #97
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seikopath View Post
    There was that green bird in star trek and no one batted an eyelid
    Many did, however, back then, bat an eyelid over the Spock-Uhura inter-racial (and inter-species) kiss!

    But that was then, this is now.

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringer View Post
    Precisely, who cares? Bond being black is in no way mutually exclusive to maintaining the essential appeal & popularity of the character.
    Maybe but as others have alluded, try casting a traditional 'black' role with any other race or colour and watch the fur and feathers fly.
    Anyway in a couple of millennia everyone will be the same colour

  49. #99
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Many did, however, back then, bat an eyelid over the Spock-Uhura inter-racial (and inter-species) kiss!

    But that was then, this is now.
    What about when sulu and chekhov were batting each other up the poopah
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  50. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchcollector1 View Post
    Nelson Mandela was a real person incase you hadn't noticed and being black was quite a key part of his story. Not really comparable to Bond who has is fictional and has been played by actors of different nationalities and appearances.

    Question for you. If Idris was white would he make a good Bond?
    Possibly, but as he is black he would make a better Shaft, or even just a black British secret agent in his own right? Why tinker with a decades old story about a white English gentlemen type spy called James Bond???

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