Reply With QuoteSame with old people on the pavement. Shouldn't be allowed out if they can't keep up.
Well Mr know it bloody all, I am older than you but still have the driving ability to keep up with the flow of traffic, if you can remember back to your driving test not being able to do this resulted in a fail. When I raised this point with the ‘instructors’ it was neatly pigeon holed into the frustrated category and quite rightly so as there is nothing more frustrating than crawling along at 20mph on a clear road behind some dodderer who should have hung his driving gloves up years ago. They may not have many accidents but they cause enough.
If your feeling bored go and resurrect another old thread and whinge about something you actually know what you are talking about, although I accept that may be difficult. END OF!
Same with old people on the pavement. Shouldn't be allowed out if they can't keep up.
+1......I might be 60 but I’m quicker on my feet than most people half my age, so I simply shove those slower than me out of the way and either gloat at them in a superior manner or curse them for slowing me down.Originally Posted by Kingstepper
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 16th August 2018 at 15:32.
Got fined for drifting last year at 60 of age. Was within the speed limit though. I try to respect the speed limits and quite often go slower. Speed does kill. It is rather a responsibilty to drive a car.
Is the focus purely on speed, or increased awareness, vision, mental approach etc?
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No it doesn’t....
The lethality increases with half the square root so it does.
This too is why the development of modern car increasing weight is unsafer for all but those inside, which leads to unsafer behaviour, more speed, more potentially lethal kinetic energy still.
Speed awareness courses as well as advanced driving skill courses should imo be mandatory. No time or no money, tant pis. Driving a car is a responsibility, not a right. There are way too many that should not be behind the steering wheel.
Gong out on the bicycle early tomorrow morning for a 60 km ride. Speed of the motorists is thé largest problem by far. Way too few are capable at the speeds they drive. All but the proverbial exception cannot act adequately within the distance they can oversee. That kills. Several doxens of cyclist p.a.
My experience of drivers/driving in Spain is not good (and the US).
The OP was discussing the UK - does Spain have speed awareness courses?.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Irrelevant....
Speed does not kill...
Concorde flew at twice the speed of sound, nobody died...
They did when it crashed?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
All of what you mentioned. It was very good and has really made me reconsider my driving.
Speed is obviously a factor in accidents, but it's not the only factor, or the only factor. Something like 2/3 of fatal accidents occur in 30mph zones.
It is the easiest factor to police using automated systems, allowing reduced numbers of traffic police.
Cameras don't have the benefit of discretion and experience. They can't differentiate between the drug driver doing 29mph at 3pm, and the sober driver at 3am, or the road conditions, temperature, state of the car being driven etc etc
And labeling speed the primary issue doesn't help address the other factors involved in accidents. It does make the revenue raising system more palatable to those not really interested in driving, and allow them to believe that they are safe as long as they are at the limit.
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Honest question. Why did it take a ticket and the threat of points to make further training seem beneficial?
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Your analogy’s irrelevent!
The energy dissipated in an accident causes the damage, and anyone who listened at school will know that kinetic energy increases in a squared relationship with speed.
At 90mph your vehicle posseses 81/36 times the kinetic energy that it does at 60........as the Americans say, ‘do the math’. That’s more than double the energy to be dissipated and that’s why a lot of damage is done in high speed accidents. Speed does kill; in the context of road travel that’s irrefutable.
A more realistic example is an impact at 40mph versus an impact at 20, there’s 4 times the energy involved. Speed limits are there for a reason, you can improve cars as much as you like but you can’t change the laws of physics.
Modern cars lull the driver into a false sense of security, they’re quiet, fast, smooth and refined; modern brakes feel very sharp and convince the driver he can stop in a very short distance. Reality is somewhat different, braking distances in a modern car may be shorter but the human reaction time hasn’t improved and that still constitutes a significant proportion of the overall stopping distance. It’s all too easy to end up driving faster than you realise in today’s cars, unfortunately speed cameras have become a necessary evil to help focus the mind.
I’ve always liked cars, I still do, but I’m mature enough to realise that fast driving on UK roads in 2018 is no longer a safe, viable, or responsible option. Given the high degree of traffic density speeds have to be reduced and safety has to be the priority. The roads are overcrowded, speed limits are there to improve road safety, that’s the reality. Everyone moans about congestion etc, but each and everyone of us is part if the problem.
Buying a high performance car in a quest for motoring pleasure has become futile, it’s an excercise in frustration. Last week I spent 20 mins in a stop-start traffic jam on a 70mph dual carriageway, I was driving wifey’s Focus automatic and I spent the 20 mins alongside a modern Porsche 911. In years gone by I would’ve envied the guy, nowadays I see how pointless such cars are.
Golden age of motoring was probably the early 80s; traffic was much lighter, the road system was well - developed, and the performance cars of the day offered a useful advantage..........those days are long gone.
Paul
Honestly I reckon it was a case of complacency over the years of feeling comfortable with my driving ability and the attitude that it will never happen to me. Thus getting away with the Speed Awareness course in my eyes is a far better way to change driver behaviour than 3 points and a fine but it's by invite only and I was one of the lucky ones. We're never too old to learn new things, I may well consider doing my Advanced Driver Training now to learn a bit more. I passed my driving Test in 1992 but did my full Bike licence in 2003 and I found that to be a useful refresher of road craft, hazard perception and the Highway Code. I guess some further training would benefit me; as it would a great deal of us. I am trying my best to keep within speed limits all the time now and am determined not to slip back into my old ways.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...and-and-wales/
I don't want to wade into the 'Speed Kills' debate. But there were some great points during the course. Points were put forward on both sides and statistically our roads whereby national speed limits exist (50-70mph - taking account of articulated/commercial vehicles and cars) have far lower casualty/kill rates than urban roads where limits are 30 or even 20mph.
However, to break this down into a simple risk assessment you'd need to look at 'likelihood' and 'severity', the greater the excess speed (please note the word excess here), the higher the likelihood of a negative outcome.
Motorways are the safest roads in the UK, here traffic is managed for entering/exiting, there are no junctions/crossings/right turns/pedestrians and everyone is driving in a straight line, plane and train travel is also inherently safe yet extremely fast, speed itself is not dangerous on its own, its the outcome of what happens when things do go wrong and the reduced time we have to correct/react to when things go wrong. I'll be doing my best from now on to avoid excess speed and not only keep within posted limits but assess my surroundings/environment and drive accordingly, its not just a legal requirement but is about respect and morals for our fellow beings on the planet.
Another interesting point made in the course is that; quite understandably, the human body is designed to be able to protect us/our organs within the same kind of speeds we can self propel; so lets say 27mph in Usain Bolts case, so maybe this is an indicator of a safe speed; not that I'd advocate it on the motorway and nor for trying to achieve trans Atlantic flight! Thus in transport, speed can be safe and effectively managed, but if something goes wrong and we end up killing ourselves or someone's loved one we'd have to suffer the consequences, for a few extra MPH it just isn't worth it.
Sorry not wanting to get on my soap box. Wishing you all a good day
The reason that the Spanish drive so badly is that they believe that it is up to god if they crash, and that they have little control over it. I spend quite a lot of time in Spain and whenever I start ranting about the unbelievable things some of them do I get told this, by Spanish people.
Honest and well thought out response! I started to enjoy driving so much more after doing additional training.
This thread gave me a nudge, haven't done a training session for 18 months, so I've sent off an enquiry to get some more booked.
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Sounds like India! All down to fate apparently.
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In that case, we are all doomed!
It crashed during a takeoff... so travelling quite slowly relatively..
If speed kills why didn’t I die at 152 on the German autobahn??
Thanks for the lecture, it was most boring....
Speed still doesn’t kill.
Rapid deceleration or impact and massive G forces that crushes bones, organs and body parts is what kills...
Enoch your wrong. I've been a serving Road Traffic PC and have dealt with crashes both at high and low speed. You have a much higher chance of being killed at high speed as the velocity of your body is pummelled to a much higher degree.
We have speed limits set that determine the survivorbility of of someone at that given limit.
Look at all the teens killed in stolen vehicles in built up areas that have crashed... Why? because of speed. Most are dead in one car.
I give up....
My observation is that it’s not outright speed that causes accidents, it’s bad driving, more specifically driving too close to the car in front, be that at 50 or eighty. I regularly see stings of cars with about a car length between them, excess speed can be a issue of course, but the current policy of demonising speed above speed limits is the wrong focus, people believe that because they are not ‘speeding’ they must be doing it right. It’s focused on because it’s so easily measured and enforced, bad driving isn’t so much. Focusing on speed and speed limits is neglecting other factors.
Exactly.... speed kills when it all goes wrong, people have been killed by cyclists travelling at 20mph..
Speed on its own doesn’t kill. If it did Lewis Hamilton and Valentino Rossi would be dead every week...
Last week a good friend crashed his R6 at 130mph at a race circuit in India, he got up and limped away.
Imagine that on a public road.... inappropriate speed kills
Yes... I'm in agreement but I'd add the provisor that it's a lack of attention at what's going on around you. I think we can partly blame the proliferation of in-car entertainment. i.e. radio, multi-media, sat-nav, and the worse of the lot, the mobile phone - your phone beeps to say a text has come in... I can guarantee that you'll glance across to see who it's from or read it. Someone pointed out that 95% of accidents are officially NOT the result of speed I'd that sounds right. I bet a big proportion of them are down to people simply not paying attention to what's going on around them.
When I did 'the course' it was interesting to see how many attendees there were snapped purely because they weren't paying attention. Yes there were a few that were habitual speeders... by that I mean persons that were fully aware of the speed they were driving and knew they were over the limit, but the majority were you're run-of-the-mill A-to-B drivers that just weren't paying attention to how they were driving and drifted above the limit. Making cars easier to drive and adding more things to distract them is NOT good for road safety. Heck my new car has 4G connectivity and allows you to check the weather and read news reports etc.... WHILST YOU'RE DRIVING!
I think we are missing the bigger picture here, for my part attending the course subjected me to being in close proximity to about 30 would be criminals something I am not used to even though I do pop into my local Rolex AD occasionally. This quite possibly left me emotionally scarred, some of them were chewing gum, at least one other had tattoos and their was even one of them admitting quite openly to driving a Diesel Jaguar, just how low down the food chain can you go. When I returned home Mrs Dog was shocked at my state and insisted if I am ever caught doing 1mph over the permitted limit again then I must take the points. I fear it may be too late as screws and snout are now entrenched in my vocabulary and Ime now longing for a tattoo. Come the Revolution Brothers the dozy old gits will get it first!
Good un :-)
Yeah, do us all a favour.
Go and spend more time and money messing around with that Mustang thing, make it go even faster, then brag about how fast you’ve driven it.
The whole speed camera/speeding debate is contentious, it always polarises opinion. Some well argued points have been made on this thread, ......some contributors have simply argued!
Have you actually done one of these courses or is it your sole aim in life to stick your nose into yet another subject you haven’t got a clue about. Do you wear a hat when your driving around bang on the speed limit.
Good for you Enoch, keep enjoying that Mustang!
But I love your car
I wish you’d do us all a favour and sod off....I’ll spend my time and money as I see fit, I don’t need a miserable boring old knowall trout like you to tell me what to do...
Thanks.... it’s very fast you know..... but somehow I’ve avoided speeding fines for the last 18 years. Must be lucky I guessBut I love your car
In the interest of full disclosure, I got done last year at 36 MPH in a 30 limit.... in the little 1.0 Yaris...(thought it was a 40 limit) oh the shame..
Speed awareness course was very good, (Birkenhead) and I’m now much more aware of what does and doesn’t define
A 30 limit....浪浪
Oh, and thanks for being a road cop, pretty thankless task, but with the standard of driving in this country we need more of you and less bloody cameras.....
Last edited by Enoch; 17th August 2018 at 14:46.
I will mate...👍👍
When I did a course it was amazing the amount of people that didn't know the rules of the road. Mostly the speed limit on a dual carriage way. I think of about 30 people, 2 of us got it correct. Everyone else thought it ranged from 50 to 90. We've never had a limit of 90 in all the years I can remember (I'm 33). It was also interesting to see how few people were able to define a dual carriage way.
When I took lessons and the test, you were told to drive up to the limit and that you would fail if you were found to be below the limit. I remember being told on a dual carriage way when going 50 that I was going too slow by my instructor and to speed up. I you drive 20 miles an hour below the limit and someone is driving at the limit then you have increased chance of running into the back of them. Take a corner, at the limit and appropriate to the conditions and if there is someone going well below the expected speed of the road and you're into a hazardous situation.
Agreed, bad driving and driving too close is a major problem. Lower/enforced speed limits help to diffuse the danger to some extent.
I think I`ve upset Knobdog and the Mustangmaniac........gotta laugh at their response to someone who doesn`t share their view of the world. If either want to continue trading insults we'll do so via PM if that makes them feel better.
I`ve had my fair share of speeding fines in the past, not something I`m proud of. Finally saw the light in 2012 following a 5 pointer and a hefty fine after driving way too fast on a motorway, I was lucky not to be catching the bus for 3 months and that really made me think. A conversation with a copper shortly afterwards also stuck in my mind and from that point onwards I`ve changed my philosophy.
Despite my earlier comments I`m not the full-blown anti-speeding zealot, I find it infuriating when roads have sped restrictions I don`t agree with, but overall the policy of reducing/controlling speed is there for a good reason and we all have too accept it.
Slightly OT, but does anyone know if the powers that be issue a copy of the Highway Code when you apply for a new licence?
I seem to remember getting one in the envelope with my first licence and wondered if they still did the same.
Well I assume due to no response to the question I asked despite all this drivel that you haven’t done the Course yet you insist on rambling on about a subject you have no first hand knowledge plus you have back tracked on all the garbage about speeding you were previously mouthing about.Agreed, bad driving and driving too close is a major problem. Lower/enforced speed limits help to diffuse the danger to some extent.
I think I`ve upset Knobdog and the Mustangmaniac........gotta laugh at their response to someone who doesn`t share their view of the world
I`ve had my fair share of speeding fines in the past, not something I`m proud of. Finally saw the light in 2012 following a 5 pointer and a hefty fine after driving way too fast on a motorway, I was lucky not to be catching the bus for 3 months and that really made me think. A conversation with a copper shortly afterwards also stuck in my mind and from that point onwards I`ve changed my philosophy.
Despite my earlier comments I`m not the full-blown anti-speeding zealot, I find it infuriating when roads have sped restrictions I don`t agree with, but overall the policy of reducing/controlling speed is there for a good reason and we all have too accept it.
The village has truly lost its idiot and as such their will be no more communication from me, although I may still read some of your missives while giggling manically.
They still have road traffic PCs? Who knew?
Not sure what makes you think I’d want to converse with you by PM, or at all in fact, but rest assured it won’t be happening..
PS I’m actually liking mustangmaniac, might use that as a username on other forums...
Last edited by Enoch; 17th August 2018 at 16:20.
A nice chap I occasionally meet on my dog walk is a Cheshire Motorcycle cop.. he told me they’re that thin on the ground, that you can virtually do as you please on the roads, chances of being caught by a traffic officer is slim...
Indeed. Speed Awareness courses are a sensible penalty for the one offence cameras can enforce. But what about Keep Your Distance courses? Lane Discipline courses? General-don't-drive-like-a-dickhead courses? I don't speed myself, so no dog in this fight, but it seems to me that Plod simply abdicating responsibility for the roads to cameras and single subject courses is, if you'll excuse the expression, a cop out.
Last edited by Seamaster73; 17th August 2018 at 16:45.
Sounds spot on. The standards of driving (above and below the speed limit) these days are shocking. Last night I saw some complete idiot pull the most bizarre and dangerous manoeuvre to overtake about 3 other vehicles at a set of lights. It was one of those where you think to yourself "Did I see that right??!".
These driving standards threads are great for unearthing the punctilious on the forum.
I have wondered; wouldn't it be better to have roads all going one way like trains so we don't have to wizz along in opposite direction within inches of each other?
No more 50 mph head-ons resulting in 100+ impacts.
Have I 'accidentally' come up with a good idea?
I believe there are courses for being caught using a phone, and minor due care and attention offences.....but of course these rely on being caught by a cop in the first place....
Not just your observation, it's Government statistics! People tend to overestimate the number of accidents caused by speeding because it is, effectively, the only traffic offence enforced. That, in turn is because you can use speed cameras. It also used to be the case (and may still be) that fixed speed camera fines are ploughed back into more speed cameras. Nothing similar for other traffic offences.
These are the statistics:
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...=1#post4849983
What would be sensible is to allocate budget on enforcement according to the relative risk. Obviously that would include speeding but would include far more enforcement of driving without due care/careless/reckless/dangerous driving.
If you are speeding more likely to be killed/seriously hurt when an accident is caused by the other foolish drivers.
Or indeed to kill a careless child pedestrian.
Inappropriate speed limits are also a pain...
The very narrow lane with high hedges and sharp bends where my wife keeps her horses, is NSL, it’s quite a busy lane with dog walkers, cyclists and mums with kids in prams, I’d argue that 20 MPH is to fast on parts of it...
A little school down the road has a 20 limit, a mile before you get to it and a mile after you’ve past..... The limit is fine, but half a mile either side of the school would be more than adequate...
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