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Thread: Speed Awareness Course

  1. #51
    Master Tifa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    I can’t believe anyone takes the points over attending a course.
    Clearly, you don't have a nectar card do you?

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenVrs View Post
    I'm not quite sure of the point you're trying to make?

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    Really? You’re criticising people for not driving fast.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Really? You’re criticising people for not driving fast.
    Are you genuinely reading that post, and focusing solely on one word, and taking that as the meaning/intention of the entire post? Disregarding everything else said?



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  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenVrs View Post
    Are you genuinely reading that post, and focusing solely on one word, and taking that as the meaning/intention of the entire post? Disregarding everything else said?



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    The rest wasn’t disregarded but the speed is important in the context of this thread.

  5. #55
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    Here's a ripe 'un for an awareness course if ever there was one and a "get a brain" course whilst you're there..

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-45119366

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    Despite having heard all the stories about them being boring and a waste of time, I did one today and found it very informative and an excellent use of time.

    I’ve been driving for thirty years and was shocked by the things I’d forgotten. Some pretty basic stuff too.

    I think making a refresher like this mandatory every decade would help us all be better drivers.
    Had pretty much the same experience as you. I found it very helpful.
    Ian

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenVrs View Post
    If no one got in a car, safer still. But speed is dangerous, right? That's why motorways are so dreadfully unsafe.

    Right?
    Wrong.
    Motorways are the safest of all our roads.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    Agreed, I am struggling to think of one sensible thing I came away with, I do know they went away with £80 of my money and 4 hours of my time that could have been spent breaking the speed limit by a couple of miles an hour.
    Totally agree I got done 3 years ago 56 as the signs changed to 50 on a smart Motorway, the second time in 38 years so hardly habitual. They never offered me the SAC

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Wall View Post
    Wrong.
    Motorways are the safest of all our roads.
    I know sarcasm can be difficult to pick up online, but c'mon!

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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by hilly10 View Post
    Totally agree I got done 3 years ago 56 as the signs changed to 50 on a smart Motorway, the second time in 38 years so hardly habitual. They never offered me the SAC
    Last time I was caught (five or so years back) the Officer with the Speed Gun who chased me down and pulled me over right outside my house, explained that because I was doing 46 in a 40 I didn't qualify for a Course.
    I have attended a Course before and found it quite interesting and informative.
    Just to make it clear though, I'm not an habitual speeder. I've had 9 points in total after 23 years of driving.
    I think my wife has it right. You should have to pass a common sense test to be allowed on the roads.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenVrs View Post
    I know sarcasm can be difficult to pick up online, but c'mon!
    Noted Warren, apologies...
    It was early tho

  12. #62
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    So most seem to think that getting caught wasn't fair, that the half a day was a waste of time, and the money is just an exercise in raising revenue, I'll wager you also swear when someone overtakes you above the speed limit, fails to use their indicators or tailgates too closely, sounds like we have a lot of BMW/Audi drivers here.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    For me, course and fine were same price - £100.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the money go into a different pot if it's points+fine vs course+fine?

    ISTR there wa something on the news last year how local authorities were making too much profit from the various courses. btw, in our area, they also have 'courses' for using your mobile phone and also for jumping red lights... or at least they used to.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by solwisesteve View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the money go into a different pot if it's points+fine vs course+fine?

    ISTR there wa something on the news last year how local authorities were making too much profit from the various courses. btw, in our area, they also have 'courses' for using your mobile phone and also for jumping red lights... or at least they used to.
    I think you are right, I seem to remember reading the fine money goes to central government but the course fee goes to the local Police Force after costs.

    Interestingly a friend of mine just got a speeding notification and assumed he wouldn't get the offer of a course as he has done one less than 2 years ago, but he has in fact got the course offer, so I don't know who holds the course attendee details and how joined up it is?
    Last edited by JasonM; 9th August 2018 at 08:39.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  15. #65
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    I was caught in the A19 in North Yorkshire doing 79 in a 70 limit.

    I was potentially late for a meeting, had been stuck in traffic outside of Newcastle and was trying to make up time. It was my decision to break the speed limit and I made it knowing the possible consequences.

    I’ve had two speeding offences in thirty years so not a habitual speeder.

    The course meant I didn’t need to have my license endorsed and, much more importantly, gave me an excellent refresher of the consequences of speed, the impact on breaking distances and the negligible amounts of time gains when travelling over compared to at the speed limit.

    For me it was a win-win situation. For others the experience may not have been so positive.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    I think you are right, I seem to remember reading the fine money goes to central government but the course fee goes to the local Police Force after costs.

    Interestingly a friend of mine just got a speeding notification and assumed he wouldn't get the offer of a course as he has done one less than 2 years ago, but he has in fact got the course offer, so I don't know who holds the course attendee details and how joined up it is?
    If you're speeding in a different council area then you generally get another awareness course offer. So you could get caught dozens of times speeding but if each time you're in a different area then you can get away with never getting any points! I know people that have been on three courses because each time they were speeding they were in a different council area. Ironically all the courses seem to be held by the same people at the same location (east Hull)... go figure! Just goes to show what a mockery this is.... just a money making exercise.

    I wonder how many people can honestly say that going on the course actually made them start driving within the speed limits everywhere. I'm thinking, if they did, then this wasn't because of some amazing knowledge they acquired on the course; more a case of realising next time it's points!

  17. #67
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    ^ I did wonder if that was the reason, makes sense, thanks.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  18. #68
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    The course was of great benefit to me personally.
    I drive a van and didn't know that I was only permitted to do 50mph on a single lane carriageway and 60mph on a dual carriageway.
    Its definitely a wake up and some of the facts were worth noting, especially about stopping distances.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Leeds View Post
    The course was of great benefit to me personally.
    I drive a van and didn't know that I was only permitted to do 50mph on a single lane carriageway and 60mph on a dual carriageway.
    Its definitely a wake up and some of the facts were worth noting, especially about stopping distances.
    tbh I didn't know that either but not a van driver so not that important. However, since then I am amazed at the number of vans I see driving above the speed limit in monitored areas.

  20. #70
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    Personally, I think anyone who thinks these courses are a waste of time and a money spinner is probably the kind of people who should just pay the fine and take the points.

    I've done two over the last 10 years (first was 87 in a 70, second 34 in a 30 and I'm pretty sure the camera is right on the edge of the speed limit zone, tut tut) and found both of them interesting and useful.

    Last one started at 5PM and cost less than the fine, so I learnt/relearnt something without taking much time off work and saved myself some money and avoided the points. In such a case, surely the cost and the lower than fine income makes these course a loss maker compared to fining people?

    Most people participated and probably enjoyed themselves more than they expected. A couple on each sat there and sulked about how important they and their time were and that they should never have had to go along.

    We had to show photo ID on the more recent course, so I guess the 'my mate paid me £50 to attend' scenario was before this was being applied (and probably why!) or maybe it's not applied widely.

    You can lead a horse to water, as the saying goes...

    M

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    Personally, I think anyone who thinks these courses are a waste of time and a money spinner is probably the kind of people who should just pay the fine and take the points.

    M
    Hmmm... I'm the exception then.

  22. #72
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    It’s not the people exceeding the speed limit by 5mph it’s the dozy old gits crawling around at 20mph that need to be Speed Aware. I broached this subject with my ‘instructors’ and Ime still waiting for a sensible answer.

  23. #73
    ^^^ This is what I don't get. Why do they give the option of education only if you've transgressed slightly? Surely someone going faster needs educating more if the objective is to make the roads safer. A more logical approach would be....awareness course if you're only just over....awareness course AND points if you're significantly over.

    For what it's worth, the one I went on was better than I thought although much is probably down to the presenter. One on my course was a lot better than the other.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    Personally, I think anyone who thinks these courses are a waste of time and a money spinner is probably the kind of people who should just pay the fine and take the points.

    I've done two over the last 10 years (first was 87 in a 70, second 34 in a 30 and I'm pretty sure the camera is right on the edge of the speed limit zone, tut tut) and found both of them interesting and useful.

    Maybe the first one was a waste of time and money since you got caught a second time ??

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    It’s not the people exceeding the speed limit by 5mph it’s the dozy old gits crawling around at 20mph that need to be Speed Aware. I broached this subject with my ‘instructors’ and Ime still waiting for a sensible answer.
    Hear! Hear! At last someone that thinks the same as me.... I can't stand crawling along behind pensioners who insist on driving 20mph below the speed limit :-(

    However airing this thought on TZ is an invitation for some holier-than-thou person that NEVER drives even 1mph over the speed limit to give you a stiff rebuke.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Thought you wouldn’t be offered a second course within 3 years but maybe it varies by area.

    Would be more of a deterrent if this was universal.
    That is the case but Dorset, for whatever reason, keep their own records and don't share them nathoinally. I was caught in Dorset, then 18 months later, Herts then again in Dorset, three years and three days after the first time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Thought you wouldn’t be offered a second course within 3 years but maybe it varies by area.

    Would be more of a deterrent if this was universal.
    That is the case but Dorset, for whatever reason, keep their own records and don't share them nathoinally. I was caught in Dorset, then 18 months later, Herts then again in Dorset, three years and three days after the first time.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by solwisesteve View Post
    Hear! Hear! At last someone that thinks the same as me.... I can't stand crawling along behind pensioners who insist on driving 20mph below the speed limit :-(

    However airing this thought on TZ is an invitation for some holier-than-thou person that NEVER drives even 1mph over the speed limit to give you a stiff rebuke.
    Well they can rebuke as much as they want, at the end of the day I am a BMW driver so my skin is pretty damn thick.

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    It’s not the people exceeding the speed limit by 5mph it’s the dozy old gits crawling around at 20mph that need to be Speed Aware. I broached this subject with my ‘instructors’ and Ime still waiting for a sensible answer.
    They can still be reported for careless driving depending on the road and driving conditions or if they cause an accident.

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Leeds View Post
    The course was of great benefit to me personally.
    I drive a van and didn't know that I was only permitted to do 50mph on a single lane carriageway and 60mph on a dual carriageway.
    Its definitely a wake up and some of the facts were worth noting, especially about stopping distances.
    This was my offence and, like you, I was completely unaware of the speed restriction on the Transit sized vans. I was doing 72 and thought I was OK. Not saying Yorkshire Police were on the ball but Im sure the letter with the penalty points was waiting for me when I got home.
    Funnily enough, I think I was caught by the same one as the OP on the A19 .

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdh1 View Post
    ^^^ This is what I don't get. Why do they give the option of education only if you've transgressed slightly? Surely someone going faster needs educating more if the objective is to make the roads safer. A more logical approach would be....awareness course if you're only just over....awareness course AND points if you're significantly over.

    For what it's worth, the one I went on was better than I thought although much is probably down to the presenter. One on my course was a lot better than the other.
    Refresher courses should be mandatory for all. A 10yearly assessment would be sensible.



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  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    Here's a ripe 'un for an awareness course if ever there was one and a "get a brain" course whilst you're there..

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-45119366

    What an utter tool!


    "He was caught doing 200 km/h but he didn't know the laws over there". Best to assume the limit is under 200kph (or 240, if you believe the authorities) then, if you don't know.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    They can still be reported for careless driving depending on the road and driving conditions or if they cause an accident.
    I can't find the latest statistics, but this is from 2011 so, I suspect, not that different from current.


    https://assets.publishing.service.go...cgb2011-04.pdf


    Because the focus of "road safety" enforcement is basically entirely about speed these days, most people are surprised that "Exceeding the speed limit was reported as a [so possibly not the only] factor in 5 per cent of accidents, but these accidents involved 14 per cent of fatalities." So basically, according to official statistics, if everyone drove within the posted speed limits, there would still be at least 95% of the accidents that we currently have and at least 86% of the fatal accidents.


    However "Failed to look properly was again the most frequently reported contributory factor and was reported in 42 per cent of all accidents "


    We all know many people who have been caught speeding - illegal so fair enough - but how many people have you heard of being prosecuted for careless driving (or similar) which is also illegal and actually a major cause of accidents. I don't know one.
    Last edited by David_D; 9th August 2018 at 18:38.

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenVrs View Post
    Refresher courses should be mandatory for all. A 10yearly assessment would be sensible.
    Agreed and perhaps every year once you reach 70.

    Also the ability to keep up with traffic/speed limit should be part of the test.

  34. #84
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    I hate those tools who drive up to your backside when you ARE keeping the speed limit. Seem to be invariabially those Audi or BMW with day running lights.

    Makes me feel like driving 10mph below the speed limit.

    the speed limit is THAT - a limit, not a TARGET - you don’t have to ‘keep up with it’. Drive at a speed appropriate for the road condition so you can stop safely if there was a small child in the road around a blind corner (for example).
    Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 10th August 2018 at 08:04.

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    Drive at a speed appropriate for the road condition so you can stop safely .
    Again, my point. Bet no one has ever heard of someone being prosecuted for that! Scares me silly to see people going down the motorway at 70mph ("legal") when it's peeing down and lots of standing water

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liner33 View Post
    Maybe the first one was a waste of time and money since you got caught a second time ??
    Maybe if I hadn't changed my driving style after the first.

    I used to think 10 mph over the limit everywhere was fine. Now I try not to speed at all in 30s and most 40s. It was slightly ironic that I got done for 34 in a 30 and probably down to the opportunistic placement of the camera catching people slowing from 50 to 30.

    I do agree though that people driving too slow is not addressed by making people go on courses. Of course that is because it's easy to measure people exceeding a fixed limit and harder to prove dangerous and inattentive driving...

    M

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  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    I hate those tools who drive up to your backside when you ARE keeping the speed limit. Seem to be invariabially those Audi or BMW with day running lights.

    Makes me feel like driving 10mph below the speed limit.

    the speed limit is THAT - a limit, not a TARGET - you don’t have to ‘keep up with it’. Drive at a speed appropriate for the road condition so you can stop safely if there was a small child in the road around a blind corner (for example).
    I think one of the main issues is indicated speed vs actual speed though.. Generally, people sticking to bang on 70mph because that's what their speedo is telling them they are actually doing around 65mph. Therefore someone doing 70 - 75mph (or an indicated 75 - 80ish) is going to want to get passed..

    Obviously speed should be tempered when driving in built up areas or in torrential rain, that's just stupid otherwise

    Not that I'm one of those that drive right up your backside mind..

    I've done the SAC (81 on a 70mph motorway), I thought it was pretty good actually. The guys doing it were engaging and even though I consider myself an OK driver, I still learned a couple of things that did make me think (stopping distances being the one I remember most)

  38. #88
    I doubt an indicated 70 on a modern car is really 65, any evidence for this?

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    I doubt an indicated 70 on a modern car is really 65, any evidence for this?
    Well, only empirical evidence myself, noting that my GPS speed does not match my speedometer's reading. I did believe it to be fairly common knowledge, though a quick google has these..

    https://autoexpert.com.au/posts/how-...my-cars-speedo

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedometer#Error

    https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/p...ex.htm?t=75329

    https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/p...ex.htm?t=15627

    I'm sure someone with more technical knowledge or with better googling skills could find some manufacture or independent research data.

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    I doubt an indicated 70 on a modern car is really 65, any evidence for this?
    I think it's a universally accepted fact that speedometers over-read. If I use a sat nav or sat nav app, my car indicates 73/74 when actually doing 70.

  41. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuisance Value View Post
    Well, only empirical evidence myself, noting that my GPS speed does not match my speedometer's reading. I did believe it to be fairly common knowledge, though a quick google has these..

    https://autoexpert.com.au/posts/how-...my-cars-speedo

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedometer#Error

    https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/p...ex.htm?t=75329

    https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/p...ex.htm?t=15627

    I'm sure someone with more technical knowledge or with better googling skills could find some manufacture or independent research data.
    I know manufacturers err on the side of caution but didn’t think it was anything like that allowed by law. Maybe I’m wrong!
    I think someone in the industry commented on another thread about this a while back.

  42. #92
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    This appears authoritative ....

    https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/how-a...r-speedometer/

    It says:

    "A speedo must never show less than the actual speed, and must never show more than 110% of actual speed + 6.25mph. So if your true speed is 40mph, your speedo could legally be reading up to 50.25mph but never less than 40mph. Or to put it another way, if your speedo is reading 50mph, you won’t be doing more than 50mph but it’s possible you might actually only be travelling at 40mph."


    I'd be very annoyed with such a big margin of error!

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    This appears authoritative ....

    https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/how-a...r-speedometer/

    It says:

    "A speedo must never show less than the actual speed, and must never show more than 110% of actual speed + 6.25mph. So if your true speed is 40mph, your speedo could legally be reading up to 50.25mph but never less than 40mph. Or to put it another way, if your speedo is reading 50mph, you won’t be doing more than 50mph but it’s possible you might actually only be travelling at 40mph."


    I'd be very annoyed with such a big margin of error!
    On some cars (vw/Audi group amongst other) using software you can reduce the inaccuracy.

    Any posted limit I stick within 99% of the time, motorways etc I stay within 10% (usually).

    The cameralert app has an excellent database of locations used for movie cameras. I've never come across a locations that the database didn't already have.

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  44. #94
    Whole thing is a con. It’s all ex filth who own the companies running the courses


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  45. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by messym View Post
    Whole thing is a con. It’s all ex filth who own the companies running the courses


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    That doesn’t stack up.

    The two I’ve been on (over past 7 years probably) we’re both run by the AA.

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by messym View Post
    Whole thing is a con. It’s all ex filth who own the companies running the courses


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    Idiotic comment

  47. #97
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    I had my first Course yesterday. It was very good indeed.

    It really made sense and drummed everything home without feeling like too much stick and not enough carrot.

    It's surprising what you forget and also how we invent the attitude 'that it'll never happen to me' approach and the 'My way Code' which is our own spin on the Highway code whereby we get this warped idea in our heads that we're fine as we are (not all of us admittedly; but certainly all of us sitting in the room on the course). The stopping distances and effects of speed had a profound impact on me, such as a car doing 30mph requiring 75' to stop, but if traveling at 32mph the car would still be traveling at 11mph at the same 75' such is the exponential deceleration of a car and at motorway speeds a car stopping full tilt from 70 would come to a halt at 315' but a car doing 100mph would still be doing 71mph after 315'. Scary stuff.

    I shall be trying much harder to restrain myself in future and be more mindful of speed everywhere.

    Whilst I hope no one else earns a place on the course I would thoroughly recommend it to anyone.

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by yumma View Post
    It's surprising what you forget and also how we invent the attitude 'that it'll never happen to me' approach and the 'My way Code' which is our own spin on the Highway code whereby we get this warped idea in our heads that we're fine as we are (not all of us admittedly; but certainly all of us sitting in the room on the course). The stopping distances and effects of speed had a profound impact on me, such as a car doing 30mph requiring 75' to stop, but if traveling at 32mph the car would still be traveling at 11mph at the same 75' such is the exponential deceleration of a car and at motorway speeds a car stopping full tilt from 70 would come to a halt at 315' but a car doing 100mph would still be doing 71mph after 315'. Scary stuff.
    But of course those stopping distances are decades out of date...

    https://www.carthrottle.com/post/wor66qd/

  49. #99
    Master yumma's Avatar
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    I do realise this... it was part of the course too. These distances were established in the 60’s but the differential in speed/deceleration remains the same.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  50. #100
    Grand Master
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    Jul 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    It’s not the people exceeding the speed limit by 5mph it’s the dozy old gits crawling around at 20mph that need to be Speed Aware. I broached this subject with my ‘instructors’ and Ime still waiting for a sensible answer.
    The instructor probably decided not to dignify your comment with a reply. If it was up to me, there would be a pass/fail aspect to these courses and anyone who displayed a cynical or negative attitude would fail. You don`t have to go on these courses, you have a choice, but if you choose to attend there's no point acting like a knob; it impresses no-one.

    As for the 'dozy old gits' comment, I guess you're referring to older drivers who drive slower than you think they should. Now I`ve reached 60 I suppose I qualify, I drive within sped limits and I drive far more carefully than I did 20 years ago. There's another aspect too; despite having eyesight that meets the safe criteria for driving, eyes do deteriorate with age and that's particularly noticeable at night-time or in poor light conditions. Over the last couple of years I've noticed this, I find night-time driving more of a strain and consequently I`m not as confident driving fast at night-time as I used to be. I`m not alone, when I speak to other folks of a similar age they all say the same.

    Frankly, I can`t stand ageist comments like this. The prospect of losing mobility and being unable to drive in old age is worrying, but it happens. Perhaps the generic 'dozy old gits' you refer to are driving within their capabilities and recognizing their limitations? My father was fortunate to keep driving up to the age of 82, shortly before he died; I just hope I`m as fortunate but I think it unlikely.

    Paul

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