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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Damn. This is 1200cc and a slightly less advantageous seat height, but good god, it's lovely (the R NineT Scrambler).

    The seat is actually very narrow, though...I think I may have to go sit on one.

    Edit: Actually, it doesn't sound like it would be anything like as suitable for me as the others. Looks damn good though!
    I traded my Ducati Scrambler for BMW R NineT (original base model not the Scrambler) - love it!

  2. #302
    Master Thewatchbloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifa View Post
    Hahahahaaa....banana splits tyres on an urban machine?
    Roland Sands must be laughing all the way to the bank.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tifa View Post
    That r9t with those tyres is just the job for scrambling up the pavements out side Starbucks.

    Low seats = virtually zero comfort after 200 miles.
    Brown seats = white socks with Oxfords.
    We get it, you don't like R9's!

  3. #303
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Tony, please don’t write it off: it’s just another opportunity to try a great bike with no commitment, what have you got to lose?
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  4. #304
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Tony, please don’t write it off: it’s just another opportunity to try a great bike with no commitment, what have you got to lose?
    True enough.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thewatchbloke View Post
    We get it, you don't like R9's!
    Well yes, actually I do like them (tubed tyres excepted) honestly!
    But they're now so inherently linked with the use of the words 'art' or 'lifestyle', brown seats, beards, banana splits tyres, de rigeur tattoos, angle grinder sparks and exhaust wrap that I can no longer take them seriously.
    The R1200R is a better bike in every respect...price included.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifa View Post
    Well yes, actually I do like them (tubed tyres excepted) honestly!
    But they're now so inherently linked with the use of the words 'art' or 'lifestyle', brown seats, beards, banana splits tyres, de rigeur tattoos, angle grinder sparks and exhaust wrap that I can no longer take them seriously.
    The R1200R is a better bike in every respect...price included.
    The wheels on the Scrambler have tubeless tyres.

  7. #307
    Master Tifa's Avatar
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    Yes it does, but those tyres will not be a lot of fun when you're looking for that extra few degrees of lean.
    (And it's got a brown seat..lol)

  8. #308
    Master j0hnbarker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifa View Post
    Yes it does, but those tyres will not be a lot of fun when you're looking for that extra few degrees of lean.
    (And it's got a brown seat..lol)
    Other tyre and seat options are available...

  9. #309
    Master Tifa's Avatar
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    Ditch the 19" front and throw in a 17, and you've got me.
    Maybe

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifa View Post
    Ditch the 19" front and throw in a 17, and you've got me.
    Maybe

    The ability to have 17" wheels/road rubber - should not be ignored.

    the reduction in inertia and gyroscopic effect cannot be overstated, and the choice of sports-touring rubber is unprecedented.

  11. #311
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    Well heres my toy, just thought I'd put it out there. Put a new slip-on on it today, sounds a little nicer than the standard wheelie bin silencer. Doubt it would be suitable for the OP but I love the thing to death at the moment. I'm sure OP will choose wisely, but like I have suggested before, don't discount any possibility unless you have actually ridden it. And flip side, don't buy one you like the 'look' of until you have ridden it for a while.



    Stuart

  12. #312
    Master Tifa's Avatar
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    Luvvverly!!!!
    Giz'go.

    Not for a newbie straight after test though....

  13. #313
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Point taken regarding keeping an open mind. On that basis, I've revisited the basic R NineT, and i have to say it seems like a superb (and a beautiful) bike and is also reasonably retro in terms of styling. In standard form it's about the same weight as the Bonneville, and not very much higher, either.

    I think it's on the test ride list, then, particularly as there'll be a better chance of picking up an approved used one.


  14. #314
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    You’ll find the R9’s will have a lower centre of gravity than a bonny which will help with manual manoeuvring and low speed stuff.

    Good old boxer engine just like your Porsche Tony:)

  15. #315
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thewatchbloke View Post
    You’ll find the R9’s will have a lower centre of gravity than a bonny which will help with manual manoeuvring and low speed stuff.

    Good old boxer engine just like your Porsche Tony:)
    That's obviously a concern with a first large bike, Duncan, so good to know.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    That's obviously a concern with a first large bike, Duncan, so good to know.
    I ride my R1200R far more than the Triumph that preceded it. Partly because as a man not endowed with long legs I find it significantly more manoeuvrable and manageable.

  17. #317
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyp View Post
    I ride my R1200R far more than the Triumph that preceded it. Partly because as a man not endowed with long legs I find it significantly more manoeuvrable and manageable.
    What Triumph was it, and what's your inside leg, as a matter of interest?

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    What Triumph was it, and what's your inside leg, as a matter of interest?
    Curses.

    You spotted my deliberate omission ;-)

    Tiger 1050.

    28"

    I bought the Tiger for a 2-up ride to Naples, a role that it performed exceptionally well (as long as I always stopped at a kerb).

    The current generation boxers are streets ahead in almost every regard, and I can put both feet on the floor.

    At the same time!

  19. #319
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyp View Post
    Curses.

    You spotted my deliberate omission ;-)

    Tiger 1050.

    28"

    I bought the Tiger for a 2-up ride to Naples, a role that it performed exceptionally well (as long as I always stopped at a kerb).

    The current generation boxers are streets ahead in almost every regard, and I can put both feet on the floor.

    At the same time!
    That's really good to know - my inside leg is 30" so I should be fine.

    Actually, everything I'm reading and watching suggests that the R NineT would be a perfect bike for me. Shame it's so expensive, but it definitely needs a test as good manoeuvrability at slow speeds would be a real advantage.

    I was also thinking again about engine layout, as these boxer engines (and similarly with the MG V7III) have the appearance of adding a lot of width to the bike. Thinking about it, though, they're no wider when you take the additional width of your legs into account, are they? (That may sound silly, but I'm thinking about suitability of riding around town.)
    Last edited by learningtofly; 4th September 2018 at 09:41.

  20. #320
    Master j0hnbarker's Avatar
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    You can ride it fine around town. No wider than any DAS bike - the SV650 I was on had enormous engine protectors and was loads wider than the R9T.

    Go and sit on one and I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. The build quality is exceptional.

  21. #321
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j0hnbarker View Post
    You can ride it fine around town. No wider than any DAS bike - the SV650 I was on had enormous engine protectors and was loads wider than the R9T.

    Go and sit on one and I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. The build quality is exceptional.
    Thanks John, and will do.

  22. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    That's really good to know - my inside leg is 30" so I should be fine.

    Actually, everything I'm reading and watching suggests that the R NineT would be a perfect bike for me. Shame it's so expensive, but it definitely needs a test as good manoeuvrability at slow speeds would be a real advantage.

    I was also thinking again about engine layout, as these boxer engines (and similarly with the MG VIII) have the appearance of adding a lot of width to the bike. Thinking about it, though, they're no wider when you take the additional width of your legs into account, are they? (That may sound silly, but I'm thinking about suitability of riding around town.)
    The engine on a boxer is only marginally wider than your feet, and probably narrower than the mirrors. That said, I've filtered through London on this.

    If you want to do much town riding though, keep the 125.

  23. #323
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Grrrrr...

  24. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Grrrrr...
    Just to be clear, that was keep the 125 as well, not instead of.

  25. #325
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyp View Post
    Just to be clear, that was keep the 125 as well, not instead of.
    Ah - even so, I doubt I'd ever look at it again.

  26. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Ah - even so, I doubt I'd ever look at it again.
    I have several watches and I wear whichever one suits at the time. Last week I was mostly wearing a scarily expensive shiny one that lit up like a glitter ball from the lights in the lift. This week I've been wearing one that looks dull and only has sentimental value. Today I'm wearing one that I love the look of but hate the bracelet end links.

    I've enjoyed them all.

    Bikes are like that too.

  27. #327
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyp View Post
    I have several watches and I wear whichever one suits at the time. Last week I was mostly wearing a scarily expensive shiny one that lit up like a glitter ball from the lights in the lift. This week I've been wearing one that looks full and only has sentimental value. Today I'm wearing one that I love the look of but hate the bracelet end links.

    I've enjoyed them all.

    Bikes are like that too.
    I actually need to sell it or trade it in to offset the cost of the new one. That aside, I have no room for two bikes, sadly.

  28. #328
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    Tony, for all the reasons given above, you cannot go wrong with the BMW. The Scrambler is a great bike, which can be made very individual.

  29. #329
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    Equally, it is not all about weight. This is very manoeuvrable too. Having a reverse gear helps!
    Last edited by Skyman; 4th September 2018 at 10:17.

  30. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    Tony, for all the reasons given above, you cannot go wrong with the BMW. The Scrambler is a great bike, which can be made very individual.
    Considering that the r9t has been potentially sidelined on the basis of cost, I'm not convinced that demonstrating that it can be made more expensive is the way to win this debate

  31. #331
    Master Thewatchbloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    I was also thinking again about engine layout, as these boxer engines (and similarly with the MG V7III) have the appearance of adding a lot of width to the bike. Thinking about it, though, they're no wider when you take the additional width of your legs into account, are they? (That may sound silly, but I'm thinking about suitability of riding around town.)
    If your handlebars fit through a gap the rest of the bike will follow, I filter through traffic all the time (no point having a bike if you don't TBH) and engine width is the least of my considerations.

  32. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyp View Post
    Considering that the r9t has been potentially sidelined on the basis of cost, I'm not convinced that demonstrating that it can be made more expensive is the way to win this debate
    Temptation is a wonderful thing.

  33. #333
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    I agree completely with the handlebar width argument. It was certainly the case on my old R100 GS.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  34. #334
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    I’m actually still a bit nervous filtering. I guess it’s something you just get used to.

  35. #335
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    You will get used to filtering. And then, you will enjoy it !! Sounds daft that i know. Me and my main ride buddy do north wales a lot on sundays, weather permitting. The M56 coming home is sometimes a 3 lane car park and filtering is so soooo convenient then. Just gotta do it carefully and at a sensible speed in case someone decides to shift lane. Once the cars are travelling at 20+ we just stick with it anyways.

    Stuart


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  36. #336
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    It’s completely normal to feel nervous at first. You will be amazed at what you can do on a bike. We used to slalom between cones standing on the foot pegs on one side of the bike when preparing for our test in France.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  37. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    It’s completely normal to feel nervous at first. You will be amazed at what you can do on a bike. We used to slalom between cones standing on the foot pegs on one side of the bike when preparing for our test in France.
    I was once driving my TVR in France, my passenger was my very blonde sister. A bike mounted gendarme came along side at around 40mph, lifted his visor, winked at my sister, and pulled one of the best wheelies I’ve ever seen. He was still on the back wheel as he disappeared out of sight..... magnificent...😎😎

  38. #338
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Gendarmes on motorbikes are extremely well trained. I used to ride with a few of them on their days off as I was in daily contact with them during my military service (they were my ‘dispatch’ riders.)
    They once caught up with me on the peripherique (Paris’ ring road, our own version of a large parking at rush hours). I was filtering gently, I knew one of the 2 and they invited me to follow them. I was in the middle, traffic was virtually at a stand still and they were riding 60mph between lanes with hardly more than 15 cm between the end of the handlebars and the rear view mirrors of the cars on each side. I have never been so scared on a bike.
    There is (was? I don’t know if the race still exists) always a team from the gendarmerie at the France motorcycle rallye, much slower than the TT style of road racing you have here because of the choice of roads, but just as mad. They often won, or were very close. For a reason.
    I still have, and wear, the leather jacket one of them gave me when I left.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  39. #339
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    The R9T looks amazing Tony. If it ticks all the boxes after you have ridden it, and have the budget, buy it . I saw one recently at a bike meet in Southampton. I had to Google the model name to find out what it was. I think it’s price might make it more exclusive and, if that’s the case, should have better residual value in the future.

  40. #340
    The regular R9T I have ridden and the handling is sublime, it is a quick bike as well and much faster than it looks, 120bhp I think, the low centre of gravity makes it a joy to ride, I'm seriously considering buying one myself.
    Last edited by Vanguard; 4th September 2018 at 16:16.

  41. #341
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Oh dear. I fear that I know where this is going!

  42. #342
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    It's worth looking via the link below for ideas of used prices Tony, buying used approved should give you 24 months manufacturer's warranty.

    https://approvedused.bmw-motorrad.co.uk/UK/

  43. #343
    If you PCP it they sometimes have 0% interest deals which is even cheaper than buying used with an interest rate :)

  44. #344
    The catch with getting the bike you want straight away is that it does away with a lot of the gradual build up and anticipation for the next stage.

    Those of us that went up through the ranks* got to move to something amazingly big and powerful every couple of years and, after a few months of ownership got to excitedly search for the next bike.

    Jumping on to a street scrambler or r9t may rob learningtofly of that pleasure.

    Then again, not knowing ltf's age and health it might be worth getting the bike now before hips, knees and eyesight go...



    *ok, my 50, 175, 250, 400, 250, 800, 100, 1000, 250, 800, 50, 250, 1150, 250, 883, 1200, 1300, 1050, 1200 isn't particularly linear,

  45. #345
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    I do appreciate the comments, as it's helping me develop my thought process.

    I've spent most of the afternoon thinking about this, and I suspect that the R NineT may well be the bike I'd like to end up with. However, it's far more powerful than I intended (twice the bhp of the Street Twin and T100, for example) and a good £5k more than my other choices. Yes, I can buy it used (although there aren't many around and they're still expensive), but I can buy all of them used.

    I think that a stepping stone to something of that size and cost would be sensible, so I'm going to stick for now to the four bikes I decided to test. The Triumph Street Twin, Street Scrambler and T100; and the Ducati Scrambler. The first and last of those are both particularly light and nimble, and probably best suited to someone new to large bikes; if i really feel that to be an advantage at the moment, then I'll probably opt for one of them, and plan to upgrade about 18 months down the line. Getting it right at that point will be an easier exercise, and I'll also be more inclined to go for something bigger and more suited to touring as I reckon we'll be in Tenerife in about 3 years. Riding the coast roads will be one of the things that keeps me sane, and whatever bike i have at that time will be coming with me, along with everything else we take over there.

    I'm 58, by the way, and pretty fit and healthy. So far, I've gone 125, 250 (w/o licence) ---------- 35 years ---------- 125!
    Last edited by learningtofly; 4th September 2018 at 17:55.

  46. #346
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    My R Nine T..
    Sport version with high exhaust and single seat and aluminium tank.
    Last edited by I a n; 4th September 2018 at 18:15.

  47. #347
    Master j0hnbarker's Avatar
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    More bike related stuff

    Tony - appreciate the cost from a BMW dealer but mine was £9k with 4K on the clock from a local dealer. 2015 bike.

    Have you ridden the DAS bikes for your MOD1/2 prep yet? I honestly don’t think the R9T is significantly more terrifying than a SV650/Gladius/ER6. If anything, it has a lower seat than the SV and a better gearbox than both the SV and ER put together.

    There’s also the smell of warm oil and metal that you don’t get with any of the above.

    See if a local dealer has one you could at least sling your leg over in the shop.

  48. #348
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j0hnbarker View Post
    Tony - appreciate the cost from a BMW dealer but mine was £9k with 4K on the clock from a local dealer. 2015 bike.

    Have you ridden the DAS bikes for your MOD1/2 prep yet? I honestly don’t think the R9T is significantly more terrifying than a SV650/Gladius/ER6. If anything, it has a lower seat than the SV and a better gearbox than both the SV and ER put together.

    There’s also the smell of warm oil and metal that you don’t get with any of the above.

    See if a local dealer has one you could at least sling your leg over in the shop.
    I've got my training on the DAS bikes, followed by my MOD 1, next week. Admittedly, I only searched for BMW approved used examples, which I accept will be more expensive than non-BMW approved.

    I'll try to get a leg-over

  49. #349
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    58? Then buy what excites your heart not your brain.

  50. #350
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    58? You must be joking! I can’t see a single Harley in your short list!
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

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