Reply With QuoteI think it was probably referring to my comment.
I’m really not interested in how anybody else pays for their bikes, it’s just not something I would do.
Obviously many people do so maybe it’s me in the minority.
I'm pretty sure - I wasn't commenting one way or the other.Originally Posted by spareparts
In fact - you went further (while 'not getting drawn')
I think it was probably referring to my comment.
I’m really not interested in how anybody else pays for their bikes, it’s just not something I would do.
Obviously many people do so maybe it’s me in the minority.
I’ve a party Saturday night near Hampton court - as the weathers hanging on I’m thinking I’ll take the bike ( I’m staying over)
Trying to plan a route NOT involving the M25 - it’s just not fun on a bike
They would get lost. The instructions are all route card, there are no landmarks to take a postcode or anything off to type into an electronic navigator. This is done deliberately, so you have to read the written directions! The whole basis of the long distance trials is a test of navigational skill (following a coloured line on a screen is not a skill), endurance (it goes right through the night, including gnarly green lanes sections), and riding/driviing skill on less than ideal surfaces. It is not a place for 1/4 tonne motorbikes!
That is the later version of one of mine, it is the G650 X Country. Even BMW techs in main dealers have never heard of them, they only registered 117 in the UK, over both versions. Very much a unicorn of a bike, everyone raves about the Honda CRF300 with it's 156kgs and 27hp and 27 torques.... that X Country is 158kgs, fuelled, with 53hp and 52 torques = same weight, double the power and double the torque! Gary has two sets of wheels, the original 19 front and 17 rear, but also a set from the X Challenge, 21 and 18 with his Pirelli MT43s on.
Mine:
Last edited by Kairos; 5th October 2023 at 15:13.
Any BMW GS riders on here? Just test drove a few bikes today as I fancy something to do touring miles, so test rode a BMW F850GS Rallye, R1250GS Adventure and a Tiger 900 GT today.
The F850GS was possibly one of the worse bikes I've ever ridden, the 1250GS was superb and I was loving the Tiger until I starting getting high up the rev range and yes those vibes via the new T-Plane crank are severe, don't think I could consider this bike any more due to this e vibes. Why Triumph have done this to an engine is beyond me.
Anyway does anyone think the R1250GS prices may drop when the R1300GS hits? Any pointers on what to look out for on a second hand GS?
I nearly did a swap deal on a 300GTS super last week, only an eleventh hour motion from my missus who likes the pillion on my F700GS stopped the exchange. The more I look at big scoots the more fun they seem to be.
In other news, my latest steed arrived... a burnt orange Vespa GTS300, perfect for short hops around town with enough pull for safe overtakes on the dual carriageway, and even cruising at 70 when needed. Have had a series of Vespas over the years, and they are superb forms for easy and fun transport.
Enoch on here has the daddy a 500 Tmax.
Ill be really interested to see how you get on with it.
Steve
Shaun great bike, a pal of mine is a diehard RE enthusiast. The build quality and the long stroke 411 engine has certainly created a very loyal following an the Scram and Himmie. The UKGSER lads love that engine too.Happy another Bike day
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Cheers bud. Totally different to the GSA. Only ridden it once. Hasn’t stopped raining since.
I’ll get a picture of both together at the weekend.
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Logic says that the 1250 prices should drop more as fickle 1250 owners jump at the chance to buy the new model, but i am a member of several FB BMW GS forums, and for some it is having the adverse affect with comments along the lines of 'don't like the 1300 and i was waiting for it to be released before i pulled the trigger on a new bike, anyone got a 1250 for sale'?
Inevitably, when people ride the new one, it will impress them, and BMW almost never release a new model that is worse than the last (although many still debate whether the Gen 4 S1000RR was really better than the Gen 3.5).
I remember looking at GS1250s last summer and the entry level TE spec with decent miles from a dealer was £15k. Now we're talking £12.5k for a solid example - that has to be good value for what it is. I don't think they will drop much more.
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Thanks, I'm torn between the Adventure which looks wide and has the 30L tank, its very balanced on the road or just getting a 1250GS TE with the 20L tank, a lot of people are saying go for the Adventure model for the bigger capacity tank?
Personally I wouldn’t want that 30ltr tank. I mean that’s got to be a range of around +300 miles. Ask yourself how many times are you going to do that in one hit? 20 litres is plenty for U.K. or EU riding
Thanks for marshalling!
Yeah thanks, that is a great point tbf. Plus they seem to be cheaper lol...
100%.
All of the rides/tours I've been on there are always riders with small tanks (and bladders, inc. me) so stops tend to be around 1.5 hours or 100 miles.
There`s more to a GSA than just the larger tank.
I ran up around 55,000 miles on two GSAs (the original 1200 and the TC)
Great bikes, and surprisingly nimble on the roads. But - the latest incarnation certainly seems more bulky, and IS a big beast.
If I was returning to a GS now - it would be the Std model I would go for. As mentioned - you don't 'need' +30ltrs of fuel (I think my ones were around 33ltr), but then you don't 'have' to brim it each time, and there can be the odd occasion when a full tank is useful.
Mile-crunching on the Peage, or heading home late on from a channel ferry port/tunnel.
Even after several hundreds of miles - you get off it the same as when you got on.
I don`t know whether i should admit this or not but in the two years i`ve had my GSA i think i`ve brimmed it once!
At the height of the fuel price madness fifty six quid to fill a motor bicycle tank with petrol was just not right..
I usually put four gallons in.
There`s more to a GSA than just a big tank.
Oh yeah, 400 mile range....
Now on my 4th GS. Had 2 x 1200s and 2 x 1250s. My current 1250 (2021 Bumblebee) is significantly stronger than the 2019 1250 Rallye.
Contemplated the GSA, tried it, and quite simply... if you appreciate fast road riding, riding green lanes/offroad, and will be riding anywhere in the UK/EU, the GS is the better bike. Ignoring 'value'/price of equivalently equipped bikes... the GS is lighter, physically smaller, and more nimble.
It is narrower across the tank which means your knees are less splayed = better all day comfort.
Offroad, the GS is infinitely better than the GSA from a size/mass point of view.
It steers with better stability on fast curvy roads and when leant over (the GS has more trail than the GSA).
The width of the GSA tank (regardless of fuel level) is very wide where you don't want it (especially when manoeuvring a stationary bike), and the GSA carries weight higher than the GS.
Both the GS and GSA are equally comfortable 2-up as the seating arrangements and chassis frame is identical.
People buy the GSA because of looks and general belief that the GS'A' must be more adventurey and capable than the GS... it isn't.
Where the GSA lollops and often 'feels' big, the GS carves and is more enjoyable to hussle and ride all round. It is also just as capable touring long distance. I've toured over 100k miles around Europe on the GS, and never have I thought 'I need a bigger fuel tank'.
I've had a TMax and also a several Vespas before - this is the second GTS300. Took mine down to Surrey Hills today from London, and it cruised happily at 70 on the A3/M25. It rode the roads around the area with aplomb. Is it in its element? Truth is, it is happiest in town at 60 and below. The TMax is a more comfortable machine by far, more powerful, and handles better. But it is also twice the price, physically a lot bigger, and not really a competitor to the GTS300. Quite different machines, and I could one day see myself on a TMax when I'm ready to stop riding a clutched bike. In the meantime, the GTS300 is perfect for urban duty, and the other clutched bikes for ride outs.
AHEM.....! The ORIGINAL GSA was an 1150.
I put over 400,000 miles on the 3 1150s I had, between them. One standard GS with a 42 litre tank. Why did I need 42 litres? Have you ever tried getting fuel in rural France on a Sunday? I said RURAL France. This was also the early 2000s, so 20 years ago, fuel was impossible because petrol stations closed on Sundays and pay at the pump was only a thing at large supermarkets or on the main roads. The Adventure versions had a genuine 330 miles range and I used it frequently because I was often doing 500 mile days, 250 to the job, work, then home the same day. It was also useful getting back from my sister's place on Skye. I had fuel to get to Broadford, half way down Skye, that got me to the BP services at Dunfermline where I brimmed her again and had a bite to eat, that fuel got me home - north of Skye to home in Uttoxeter (near Alton Towers) on 2 fill ups and timing wise I left Bryony's at 13.15 and was home by 22.30. Fuel range can be useful if you are regularly doing high mileage. For the usual liesure user however, petrol is now pretty much available within 120 miles anywhere in Europe, even in the Eastern countries..
Not that that helps you with your choice! Nowadays I am happy to ride the X Country with an 8.5 litre usable tank and the R80GS, with 22 litres I think it is, gives me about 230 miles.
Cheers for that , great summary :)
Some of us like to `lollop` and have the feeling of riding something big and substantial.
It’s the 560 Tech max Steve. Great scooter but IMO way over priced. I’m glad I’ve got it though because it’ll get me out and about a lot easier than the other bikes once I’m fit enough to ride again. Funny story, my mate couldn’t get anywhere near me going through the nant in the wet….. he was on his 1200RS speed triple🤪🤪
I'm in Berlin this weekend so dragged my very patient wife to the new BMW Motorrad Welt in Spandau.
Obviously the new R1300 was here. Initial impressions are pretty positive. They've generally tidied everything up around the cylinder heads (which are now painted in a nice flaked colour).
The rear subframe has been redesigned to save weight and there are small improvements evident all over the bike (eg there is now a lever to raise and lower the screen on lower spec bikes that don't have the electric option).
Still a very familiar riding position and I'm sure it will have plenty of pull. In the flesh, I'm not sure I love the look, the R1250GS still has a utilitarian appeal that is somehow lost on this new machine.
The F900 however looks very impressive, especially with great power to weight ratios that would be enough for any road rider
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I like the look of the 900
My affection for BMW GS's peaked with the 1150, thereafter they became more and more reliant on technology and less and less on user repairability.
There is no way their latest offering would allow a diy'er to strip down and rebuild to this level - and I doubt they'll be as equally robust in 20+ years time.
IMO of course.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I'm hoping someone takes the mention of the Yamaha^^^ as a cue to talk about their Forza 750
May be true but you could say that about anything now regarding bikes and cars...My affection for BMW GS's peaked with the 1150, thereafter they became more and more reliant on technology and less and less on user repairability.
There is no way their latest offering would allow a diy'er to strip down and rebuild to this level - and I doubt they'll be as equally robust in 20+ years time.
IMO of course.
R
Would a Forza 350 do?
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Anything and everything's good, I'm all ears
Really liking the look of the 900. If I was going to chop my 1200 in I wouldn't even consider the 1300 having seen that. I'd probably have to book a test ride though because the 1200 is such a great bike . The 900would have to be exceptional.I'm in Berlin this weekend so dragged my very patient wife to the new BMW Motorrad Welt in Spandau.
Obviously the new R1300 was here. Initial impressions are pretty positive. They've generally tidied everything up around the cylinder heads (which are now painted in a nice flaked colour).
The rear subframe has been redesigned to save weight and there are small improvements evident all over the bike (eg there is now a lever to raise and lower the screen on lower spec bikes that don't have the electric option).
Still a very familiar riding position and I'm sure it will have plenty of pull. In the flesh, I'm not sure I love the look, the R1250GS still has a utilitarian appeal that is somehow lost on this new machine.
The F900 however looks very impressive, especially with great power to weight ratios that would be enough for any road rider
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I had the Forza 350 before the TMax… Have to say that for the price it was brilliant. Would sit comfortably at 70mph, would crack 95mph at a push, and best part of 100mpg. Electric screen was easy to use and very effective, loads of storage under the seat. Brakes were excellent. The only slight criticism I could level at this scooter, is that the suspension wasn’t as good as it could have been, you could tell it was a budget set up, especially at the rear.Anything and everything's good, I'm all ears
Funny story, my 18 stone mate broke down on his multi Strada in Bala, he jumped on the back of the Forza in full leathers and I took him home to get his trailer. Even with that lump on the back, the scooter happily cruised at 60mph and he said it was really comfy..🤪🤪
Me and a few friends went up to North Wales to have a day out with the Mick Extance Experience.
(Mick has completed the Paris-Dakar multiple times so knows what he's doing)
You can just turn up and they give you bikes and all the gear you need for a day off-road riding.
We were riding 300c Beta Xtrainers ... 2 stroke!
Exactly the right size IMO.
Anyway - highly recommended if you want to try something a bit different.
Plenty of spills - bikes just soaked it up.
I've done a few off-road days and ridden Moto-X in my youth so felt pretty happy on these bikes.
That said - we had one person in the group who had never got his wheels dirty and had a great time.
Video to follow.
I'm in a similar place.
The prices are obscene when you spec the 1300 up with luggage, and enough extras to differentiate from my existing 2013 R1200GS TE.
We're talking nearly another 20k for a bike that will deliver minimal extra enjoyment on most roads.
I'll be sticking with what I have (that's 3 BMWs - GS, S1000RR and R100RS)
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Definitely test ride a current 900’s, there are many variants 900R xR900 etc. The reason being the Rotax based 900 twin is very different in terms of power and torque to the boxers. I have nearly 40,000 miles on BMW 800 twins and for me the low mass low seat height suits my riding style. I like the engine and accept its characteristics.
Some boxer riders moving down find the 800/900 cc engine too buzzy compared to the tractor torque’s of the boxer. Others are won over by its lower weight and frugal fuel consumption
As BMW refined the 900 engine they have boosted the power, my first F650gs was 65 bhp ( 800cc) my 700GS also 800cc is 75bhp . The latest 900GS is 105 bhp, quite a bit of this increase is at the top end. BMW are running a F900R race series so the engine is capable, its just not like a boxer.
Last edited by higham5; 7th October 2023 at 21:27.
Did 250 from home to Aberystwyth yesterday, mostly back roads and mountain roads.
Took the R nineT Pure and the Street Scrambler and swapped back and forth between the two of us during the day.
Lads conclusions:
BMW - nimble, quick enough to make you giggle when accelerating, excellent build quality, dreadful suspension, uncomfortable seat.
Triumph - comfy seat and suspension, relaxed riding position, under-powered, under-braked.
I think he's pretty much on the money there, though I'd argue that the Triumph's brakes are fine for the type of bike it is. But then I'm not 26 and treating everything like a race rep.
Today we wash them and I work out how to get the rear wheel out of the BMW without a paddock stand so I can get a puncture repaired :-(
It's a 2019-on model so already has the improved performance and better brakes than the up-to-2019 model.
I love the Triumph, but the going and stopping is nothing like the BMW. But both of us were happy to jump on the Triumph for a bit of a rest after a few miles on the BMW.
We were on tiny Welsh roads though which were not the BMW's natural habitat.
BTW, the Welsh 20mph thing is ridiculous. We spent half of the day trying to work out what the speed limits were, rather than trying to avoid an incident!
The two bikes are not really comparable when it comes to performance, nor are they intended to be (I owned my R9T for about 18 months, and am still a massive fan - in fact, I was a hair's breadth from getting one instead of the T120). Agree about these 20mph limits, though - especially in a bikers' paradise like North Wales. One can only hope for a reversal, although I'm not sure what Labour's stance on that might be.
The Scottish govt eschewed a nation-wide 20 in urban areas in favour of individual councils being left to decide.
In the Borders we had every 30 reduced to 20 in trial, followed by implementation, followed by a relaxing of trunk routes through some towns back to 30.
The law is there, but police appear happy that 'in general' speeds in general have come down from the excess over 30mph that had become the norm.
Most people are doing around 25-27mph (depending on speedo or satnav) and life goes on.............
I fully agree with Enoch’s views on the Forza 350. I’ve had mine just over a month and put 1100 miles on it commuting to work.Anything and everything's good, I'm all ears
The weather protection is the best I’ve experienced on any bike, including some of the big tourers. Riding home from work the other day on the motorway in torrential rain and spray and the only part of me to actually catch any rain was my upper arms and shoulders. Hands too of course but that’s now been solved with the addition of some sexy muffs for the winter.
Downside for me is the suspension. The handling is fine for a scooter, I managed to scrape the centre stand on an over exuberant left hander the other day, it just doesn’t handle the bumps well. The ADV350 has better suspension but didn’t have the electric screen and weather protection I need for commuting. I’ve got my SpeedTwin for proper rides anyway.
That’s it, other than your street cred being nil, which I couldn’t care less about, and other bikers don’t nod at you which is their problem not mine!
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Last edited by Bobbyf; 8th October 2023 at 10:03.
I dunno. I was in N Wales last week (and indeed most weeks) and I can't see it as a major problem. Many of the villages were already 20 and frankly, in a lot of places 20 is indeed plenty. If you want to avoid the 20mph zones, just stay out of the towns and villages.
Yes - in other words a huge compromise. It's also a big issue in London now as well; for example, if I want to pop over to the bike shed, for a large part of the journey I'm bouncing between 1st and 2nd gear. Not exactly a joy to be on two wheels.
Ultimately it either bothers you or it doesn't. I'm in the camp that it does.
Well, I suppose London has a few more urban areas than N Wales, so yeah, it’s more of an issue.
As I said - in the Scottish Borders, the police and councils appear to be happy that the speeds have reduced from 35+ to around 25-27.
Time will tell - if people start getting prosecuted for 27.
I think the biggest frustration for us yesterday was that there are a lot of places that probably shouldn't have been 30 in the first place; many were long, sparsely populated villages, with houses set well back or long stretches with no housing.
I'd argue that enforcing 20 in heavily populated areas and near schools (around arrival and departure times) is easily justified, but the remainder of 30 limits should remain but be enforced. Setting the limit to 20 so people stick to under 30 isn't the right solution to stopping people doing 40 in a 30.
But what do I know, I'm not a politician.
Motolegends Sunday sale this week is a good one - 42% off the Belstaff Brooklands Mojave 2.0 waxed jacket in mahogany (down from £595 to £350, but today only). They seem to have all sizes at the time of typing, and the discount code is BRK42.
(I've just snagged one in a medium, not that I need a 10th bike jacket, FFS!)
Like you I don’t need another jacket, but Belstaff sizing is very strange the chap in a cap isn’t a big fella and he’s a large… go figure.
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