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Thread: Formula 1 2020

  1. #1
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    Formula 1 2020

    We seem to be a little slow starting this years thread, but having just read something I guess I’ll get it started.

    It seems both Red Bull and Ferrari have secured their young guns for the foreseeable future. Max has signed with Red Bull until the end of 2023 and Charles has signed with Ferrari until the end of 2024.

    A five year deal is one hell of a commitment.

  2. #2
    Master petethegeek's Avatar
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    And looking down towards the other end of the grid Robert Kubica has signed up as the Alfa Romeo reserve driver. Oh, by the way he's bringing a Polish petrol company along with him. I hope they don't mind.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/50965260

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    We seem to be a little slow starting this years thread, but having just read something I guess I’ll get it started.

    It seems both Red Bull and Ferrari have secured their young guns for the foreseeable future. Max has signed with Red Bull until the end of 2023 and Charles has signed with Ferrari until the end of 2024.

    A five year deal is one hell of a commitment.
    Perhaps with Hamilton approaching the end of his contract they were concerned about a potentially vacant Mercedes seat.

  4. #4
    The only real F1 news so far is that Williams sponsors are all pulling the plug, I don’t know how much Latifi brings but it is looking grim.

    Claire Williams needs to go, they need to get a credible manager in very quickly.

  5. #5
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    After 30+ years I largely disengaged from F1 in 2018. For the last two years I've recorded a few races because they are good circuits / often interesting races: Monaco, Spa & Monza. In the main I have found myself fast forwarding through the recordings.

    I know the cars are amazing, I know the drivers are incredibly busy in the cockpits, but I can't see any of that. I need to see cars moving about, races changing because the cars are stretched to breaking point and most of all, close following through bends leading to overtaking. I don't need to see telly programs with more analysis than chat, graphics with the drivers folding their arms turning to camera or track side digital signage saying "It's hammertime" which is all just flim-flam.

    So what you may say, but I buy watches & drink beer so I'm right there in their target demographic I'd have thought. F1 is in danger of becoming the Emperor's new clothes, we're told it is the pinnacle of motorsport but is it, really?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy67 View Post
    After 30+ years I largely disengaged from F1 in 2018. For the last two years I've recorded a few races because they are good circuits / often interesting races: Monaco, Spa & Monza. In the main I have found myself fast forwarding through the recordings.

    I know the cars are amazing, I know the drivers are incredibly busy in the cockpits, but I can't see any of that. I need to see cars moving about, races changing because the cars are stretched to breaking point and most of all, close following through bends leading to overtaking. I don't need to see telly programs with more analysis than chat, graphics with the drivers folding their arms turning to camera or track side digital signage saying "It's hammertime" which is all just flim-flam.

    So what you may say, but I buy watches & drink beer so I'm right there in their target demographic I'd have thought. F1 is in danger of becoming the Emperor's new clothes, we're told it is the pinnacle of motorsport but is it, really?
    I switched to watching Rally Cross. Much better racing I feel

  7. #7
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    I thought last season was one of the best for some years, can’t wait for the 2020 season to kick off now!

  8. #8
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    I wrote this in 2016 for a mag i do work for ....i still stand by it...'yes some tongue' in cheek but heh....


    ===============

    Formula 1 progress ?

    Lets go back 30 years to 1986 Gerhard Berger and Teo Fabi were both piloting Benetton’s debut car the ‘B186’ powered by the legendry BMW ‘M12’ 1500cc turbo engine putting out 900 bhp in “detuned” race trim and a staggering 1400 bhp in qualifying trim spitting flames and crackling and weighed in at 550 kgs giving them a staggering power to weight ratio, Fabi took pole at the Italian GP at Monza and during ‘qualy’ almost as significantly Berger recorded the highest speed through the trap 219 mph, and yes I do remember they burst into flames and blew up a lot but hey they were spectacular.

    After turbo’s being banned in 1988 we again have turbo’s 1600cc V6 engines putting out wait for it about 750 bhp (600 petrol & 150 hybrid, power progress NOT).
    They are rev limited to 15’000 rpm and fuel flow restricted to 100 kilograms per hour (to save fuel and in doing so cute polar bears and the planet) an utterly bizarre thing for the ‘FIA’ to regulate when you think each team fly’s approximately 200 staff and all the race gear over 100’000 miles around the world each year using thirsty Jumbos and fleets of artic’s.


    Under todays regulations each manufacturer is allowed 32 engine ‘development tokens’ per season, no more than 5 engines, ‘blah’ ‘blah’ ‘blah’ and guess what the cars sound like food blenders at full chat. I / we have road cars that sound more exotic the glorious Mercedes GT’S’ safety car drowns them out.

    I for one have all but given up on F1 firstly it should be on the BBC or ITV instead of ‘World Darts’ or ‘The Voice’ and not lining ‘Ruperts’ pockets.
    F1 by definition should be the pinnacle of motor racing the teams should be allowed to use as much fuel as they want turn the bloody boost up to 1500bhp or more and have exhausts that make your ears bleed before the cars come into view and leave bellowing smoke and big black rubber stripes off the grid and through corners and constantly shoot flames out of six, eight, ten or twelve glowing exhausts!

    To put it in context back in 1986 you couldn’t pop into your local showroom and buy 900 bhp of F1 power rivaling road car the best most of us could hope for then was a 911 Turbo with 330 bhp or about a third of an F1 cars had back then,
    Today (fortunately) you can buy Supercars with 1000 bhp or about 250 more than todays F1 cars. they can also make vastly more sexy noises and spit flames.

    30 years on from 86 if “F1” cars had developed as much as our Supercars they would be pumping out 2000 bhp and hitting 300 mph on the straights and making kids and grownups alike spit expletives as they passed ! here’s wishing, please uncle Bernie rip up the rule book and soon.

  9. #9
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Pleased that someone started the thread

    Hopefully this season will be a repeat of last season with LH securing a record equalling number WDC wins and beating the current record of most race wins (he needs 8). It will be very interesting to see how CLC and SV decide to race this year and whether any lessons have been learnt. I am sure that Max will continue to develop as will Albon and Norris.

    I for one am looking forward to it.

    In other news it was nice to see LH donated $500k for the Australian relief fund.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    ...Hopefully this season will be a repeat of last season with LH securing a record equalling number WDC wins and beating the current record of most race wins (he needs 8). ...
    Yes, that will keep me on the edge of my seat.

  11. #11
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Interesting piece on fuels and the future in F1.

    https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/n...la-e#.XhiI1B24
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  12. #12
    Master Alansmithee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy67 View Post

    So what you may say, but I buy watches & drink beer so I'm right there in their target demographic I'd have thought.
    Without putting too fine a point on it - part of the problem is the average age of F1 viewers keeps going up - it is currently 58 I believe.

    So it is already seen as an old man's sport and coupled with niche expensive subscriptions to access it - it is hard to see how you can arrest the decline as its core audience dies off.

    Maybe if Amazon Prime had rights, we would see more interest of people not looking forward to retirement.

  13. #13
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alansmithee View Post
    Without putting too fine a point on it - part of the problem is the average age of F1 viewers keeps going up - it is currently 58 I believe.

    So it is already seen as an old man's sport and coupled with niche expensive subscriptions to access it - it is hard to see how you can arrest the decline as its core audience dies off.

    Maybe if Amazon Prime had rights, we would see more interest of people not looking forward to retirement.
    It's 40 not 58.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2...-are-under-25/
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  14. #14
    Master Alansmithee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Opps - I misread an article - it sidetracked into Nascar and that is the average age of viewers.

  15. #15
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    I'm looking forward to seeing who will be top Canadian this year. Will it be the one with a rather disappointing record in lower classes who is only in Formula 1 because his dad is incredibly rich and is throwing money around the paddock or will it be the other one? My money is on the latter!

  16. #16
    Not too long to wait now until each team reveals their 2020 chargers.

    Ferrari 11th Feb
    Renault 12th Feb
    McLaren 13th Feb
    Alpha Tauri (nee Torro Rosso) 14th Feb
    Mercedes 14th Feb (along with a shakedown session at Silverstone)
    Racing Point 17th Feb
    Alfa Romeo and Haas 19th Feb (1st day of testing at Barcelona)
    Williams and Red Bull TBC

    Test session dates are the 19th Feb - 21st, then the 26th - 28th. Six days in total this season, two days less than last year. Let's hope Williams take note...

    First race is the Australian GP on the 15th March, the last is Abu Dhabi on the 29th November. It's a 22 race schedule for this season, 1 more than last year, with Germany out and Vietnam and The Netherlands in, the 3rd and 5th races on the timetable.

    Full list of dates in this link - https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...HtYFZq7hH.html

    Latest hot gossip is that Mercedes may pull out of F1 as a works team at the end of this season and stay on to provide PUs to Williams, McLaren, Racing Point and whoever takes the keys to Brackley.

    Wolff and Stroll Snr to tie the knot? Will Lewis Hamilton really move to Ferrari?

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/m...sational-aston
    Last edited by CardShark; 30th January 2020 at 02:25.

  17. #17
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    The Netherlands' F1 fever is heating up these days. Last week, 2 F1 cars did a tour between The Hague and Rotterdam for a commercial. MV was the driver on at least at one occasion. It's not sure who's behind the commercial: RB, the Zandvoort circuit or Jumbo Supermarkets who's MV's personal sponsor. You'll catch the name 'Jumbo' again later this year during the pro cycling tours: Jumbo-Visma will try to win a few(...) tours. Jumbo is knee-deep in sponsoring all sorts of sports.

    Making the commercials was brilliant marketing. On Sunday morning, small country roads were blocked and the RBs did tons of laps on those roads, in(!) greenhouses, between shipping containers and on the beach near The Hague. Bystanders had a fantastic day. No thrills, no frills. No barrier between the cars and the spectators. Just an exciting Sunday morning is a sleepy village and later on a dull Monday morning. The scene where the RB does a circle around the statue is in front of the Royal Palace in The Hague.

    Last edited by thieuster; 30th January 2020 at 07:11.

  18. #18
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    I can predict the future, Hamilton wins the 2020 F1 championship.

    Oh no, everyone knows that one already lol.

    Now what is interesting is if Leclerc beats Vettel and if Verstappen gives someone a good slap.

    Oh and if Bottas tells everyone f*** you over the radio again lol.

    Other notable highlights will be Ricciardo trying to act like he believes in Renault.

  19. #19
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    I would not be at all surprised to see Mercedes pull out of F1 as a manufacturer at the end of this season.

    They have nothing left to prove and there will be major changes for 2021 which will be very costly for all teams.

    If this does happen I’m not sure if Hamilton will continue in F1 or decide to call it a day. Like Mercedes, he also has nothing left to prove.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by xellos99 View Post
    I can predict the future, Hamilton wins the 2020 F1 championship.

    Oh no, everyone knows that one already lol.

    Now what is interesting is if Leclerc beats Vettel and if Verstappen gives someone a good slap.

    Oh and if Bottas tells everyone f*** you over the radio again lol.

    Other notable highlights will be Ricciardo trying to act like he believes in Renault.
    Leclerc beat Vettel last year.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyO View Post
    I would not be at all surprised to see Mercedes pull out of F1 as a manufacturer at the end of this season.

    They have nothing left to prove and there will be major changes for 2021 which will be very costly for all teams.

    If this does happen I’m not sure if Hamilton will continue in F1 or decide to call it a day. Like Mercedes, he also has nothing left to prove.
    I think Lewis wants to beat Schumacher’s record. A win next year will only equal it.

  21. #21
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    [QUOTE=jaytip;5311960]Leclerc beat Vettel last year.QUOTE]

    Yes thank you for that. That is what is interesting ? Is he going to beat Vettel again, did Vettel just have a off year. It is round two the rematch

  22. #22
    Wherever there's gossip there's counter gossip - https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...wolff/4678344/


    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post

    That's a fantastic way to engage with the fans, the country is going to be buzzing on race day!

  23. #23
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CardShark View Post
    Wherever there's gossip there's counter gossip - https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...wolff/4678344/




    That's a fantastic way to engage with the fans, the country is going to be buzzing on race day!
    Exactly! The race weekend is bang-on in the middle of a school holiday. Pre-mentioned Jumbo Store is giving away unique numbers for a 50% reduction ticket for Race Friday on May 1st when you buy your groceries at their stores. No doubt that it will draw tons of fans buying at Jumbo! MV's personal sponsor is laughing all the way to the bank.

    Secondly, Heineken is also a sponsor. And, Heineken is a Dutch company (It's on the stock exchange, but Charlene Heineken firmly holds >50% of all shares) and I'm sure that the brewery will come up with some marketing stunts as well.
    Last edited by thieuster; 30th January 2020 at 22:51.

  24. #24
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    Red Bull did something similar in Belfast last year and they do it in other cities too. No race to promote, just sugary soft drinks and it was one hell of a piece of marketing. That screaming V8 echoing off the buildings as it goes past at maybe 130mph and 10 feet from your face was glorious.


  25. #25
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CardShark View Post
    Wherever there's gossip there's counter gossip - https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...wolff/4678344/
    Plus there's the small detail that A-M is now part owned by Lance Stroll's dad...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51323241

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    Plus there's the small detail that A-M is now part owned by Lance Stroll's dad...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51323241
    Racing Point will have Aston Martin branding in the 2021 season after this. Their contract with Red Bull will lapse.

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...troll/4679803/

  27. #27
    The biggest change I've seen in F1 is how much access we get to the drivers real lives. Seeing Landon and Carlos mess around and enjoy their time racing has been refreshing. I'm a clubman racer and the bottom line is that a driver wants to enjoy himself and compete in close racing, I sure hope that the imminent rule changes will allow the cars to run closer and maybe move around a little. Overall I'm excited for the season to start, but have bigger hopes for 2021.

  28. #28
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    You could probably make a case that those V8 Red Bulls amount to false advertising.

  29. #29
    Master Lampoc's Avatar
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    The 2020 Haas is the first to break cover with a livery looking very similar to the 2018 car.



    Let's hope it's an improvement on last year's great liveried/crap sponsor car.

  30. #30
    Craftsman 50kopek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    The Netherlands' F1 fever is heating up these days. Last week, 2 F1 cars did a tour between The Hague and Rotterdam for a commercial. MV was the driver on at least at one occasion. It's not sure who's behind the commercial: RB, the Zandvoort circuit or Jumbo Supermarkets who's MV's personal sponsor. You'll catch the name 'Jumbo' again later this year during the pro cycling tours: Jumbo-Visma will try to win a few(...) tours. Jumbo is knee-deep in sponsoring all sorts of sports.

    Making the commercials was brilliant marketing. On Sunday morning, small country roads were blocked and the RBs did tons of laps on those roads, in(!) greenhouses, between shipping containers and on the beach near The Hague. Bystanders had a fantastic day. No thrills, no frills. No barrier between the cars and the spectators. Just an exciting Sunday morning is a sleepy village and later on a dull Monday morning. The scene where the RB does a circle around the statue is in front of the Royal Palace in The Hague.

    So that's what that was! Came across them on a random tuesday morning in The Hague on my way to work. Could hear the engines revving a little later from my office.


  31. #31
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 50kopek View Post
    So that's what that was! Came across them on a random tuesday morning in The Hague on my way to work. Could hear the engines revving a little later from my office.

    Wow! Your office: Super-posh A+ location (and not only when the RB's are under your window).
    Last edited by thieuster; 7th February 2020 at 15:50.

  32. #32
    Master Jon Kenney's Avatar
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    Looking forward going to the inaugural Vietnam GP in Hanoi.

  33. #33
    Craftsman 50kopek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    Wow! Your office: Super-posh A+ location (and not only when the RB's are under your window).
    To be fair, it’s just a government job (Raad van State) just around the corner.

  34. #34
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    The Chinese GP has been postponed then due to the Coronavirus outbreak.

  35. #35
    Testing, testing...

    The first of two pre-season tests is under way, and as I type we're into Day 2, almost half way through the morning session, and so far we haven't seen a red flag!

    For anybody unfamiliar with pre-season tests, there are few marshalls around the track, and if any driver plants their shiny (or matt, in many cases) new car into a gravel trap, or it breaks down out on, or alongside the circuit, rescue crews are despatched, and all on-track running is suspended by means of red flags being shown. Despite a couple of spins yesterday, all cars were able to continue, and there was uninterrupted running.

    A welcome change this year is the banning of "vanity screens" to block the view of TV and press cameras while the cars are in their pit garages, so it's harder for teams to hide their updates for this season.

    Although updates are few and far between, as the rules are largely unchanged, so it's evolution rather than revolution. Ted Kravitz gave an interesting insight into what is probably the most radical change on any of the cars, Mercedes' revised rear suspension layout, which changes the location points of the rear wishbones, and along with a deflector on the upper surface of the rear floor ahead of the inside of the rear tyre is believed to help to increase rear downforce by "sealing" the gap between the tyre and the edge of the floor.

    Other gossip revolves around what is being described as the "Pink Mercedes", or Racing Point, which bears an uncanny resemblance to last year's Mercedes in the bodywork, suspension and overall aero departments. Senior team spokespeople deflect awkward questions by making the point that "we're hardly going to copy last year's slowest car, are we?" Much is being made about Racing Point becoming a Mercedes "B Team", and referring to Ferrari's links with Haas, Red Bull and newly re-named Alpha Tauri, etc.

    Yesterday's times were fairly close, with Mercedes leading the way, but test times are largely meaningless, as nobody outside of the teams knows whether they are doing race simulations, qualifying sims, aero runs, tyre wear checks, fuel loads, whether any ballast has been added, or whether they're actually bothered about showing their hand ahead of Melbourne.

    Anything else? Not much, Sky have become fascinated by the fact that the Mercedes steering wheel appears to move laterally, and back and forth, leading to speculation about whether it has some effect on front suspension geometry. And Alpha Tauri have the best livery this year.
    Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.

  36. #36
    Master petethegeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    And Alpha Tauri have the best livery this year.
    For those who haven't had chance to compare this year's paintwork yourselves, you can get a glimpse and a chance to decide here.

  37. #37
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Interesting GIF showing Mercedes' ability to change front geometry from steering wheel.

    http://twitter.com/i/status/1230437658385620992

    Last edited by Chris_in_the_UK; 20th February 2020 at 12:18.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  38. #38
    The Mercedes steering wheel suspension adjustment system has become 2020's double diffuser/F-duct talking point.

    Without live tv coverage of testing, with onboard shots, this may not have been noticed until Melbourne, and every other team is currently poring over the tv replays and wondering how long it will take to develop their own version.
    Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    The Mercedes steering wheel suspension adjustment system has become 2020's double diffuser/F-duct talking point.

    Without live tv coverage of testing, with onboard shots, this may not have been noticed until Melbourne, and every other team is currently poring over the tv replays and wondering how long it will take to develop their own version.
    I wonder if the teams have a plan B in case their pushing the boundaries plan A is deemed illegal. I would imagine they must have.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    I wonder if the teams have a plan B in case their pushing the boundaries plan A is deemed illegal. I would imagine they must have.
    The current practice is that a team will contact the FIA Technical Delegate (Jo Bauer) describing their planned upgrade/modification/whatever, and asking if it would be deemed to be legal, thereby pre-empting any potential protests from rivals.

    As with the F-duct and double diffuser, the FIA weren't able to prove that the modifications were illegal, so everybody developed their own version, and the FIA subsequently banned the devices for the following season.

    It's one reason why Formula 1 is so expensive, and why the FIA will have difficulty in enforcing any cost cap. Teams are spending millions in chasing very small incremental performance gains, and if somebody finds something which gains their car a fraction of a second per lap, everybody rushes to copy it. And then the FIA bans it.
    Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    The Mercedes steering wheel suspension adjustment system has become 2020's double diffuser/F-duct talking point.
    I reckon this will be banned prior to the first GP and would be very surprised if Mercedes don’t have a contingency plan to cover this scenario.

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyO View Post
    I reckon this will be banned prior to the first GP and would be very surprised if Mercedes don’t have a contingency plan to cover this scenario.
    Why? just because it's innovative. we have discussed the compromise with toe, effectively pulling the car around the corner before, I said at brands we have one wheel straight and the other turning in, someone on here thought I was talking rubbish.

    I think the interesting arguments may be regarding the percentage of Mercedes W10 that is in the Racing Point.

  43. #43

  44. #44
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Let the battle of the semantics commence...

  45. #45
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    The other big question for this time of year is "What does Lewis's hair look like?", and I think he has put in an outstanding performance.


  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by hogthrob View Post
    The other big question for this time of year is "What does Lewis's hair look like?", and I think he has put in an outstanding performance.
    Will any of his sycophants tell him that he looks a complete twat

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Will any of his sycophants tell him that he looks a complete twat
    Likely not...

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    ...Other gossip revolves around what is being described as the "Pink Mercedes", or Racing Point, which bears an uncanny resemblance to last year's Mercedes in the bodywork, suspension and overall aero departments. Senior team spokespeople deflect awkward questions by making the point that "we're hardly going to copy last year's slowest car, are we?" Much is being made about Racing Point becoming a Mercedes "B Team", and referring to Ferrari's links with Haas, Red Bull and newly re-named Alpha Tauri, etc.


  49. #49
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Mercedes confident 'dual-axis steering' system for 2020 within F1 rules

    ...Technical director James Allison said it "introduces an extra dimension for steering which we hope will be useful".

    He said governing body the FIA was aware of it. "The rules are clear about what's permitted on steering systems. We're pretty confident that it matches those requirements," he said.

    He declined to elaborate further on the purposes of the system...

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Mercedes confident 'dual-axis steering' system for 2020 within F1 rules
    ...Technical director James Allison said it "introduces an extra dimension for steering which we hope will be useful".

    He said governing body the FIA was aware of it. "The rules are clear about what's permitted on steering systems. We're pretty confident that it matches those requirements," he said.

    He declined to elaborate further on the purposes of the system...
    Had much discussion about this over lunch - we think it looks legit. I can't see why it would banned. As mentioned above, I reckon another situation where everyone copies and then it's banned. The impact on tyre temperature and wear will be interesting to watch, as well as actual performance gains.

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