More bike related stuff

[E_2_Right-Force]

With regards to your swap of the RT final drive, I have often felt myself looking for the 7th gear. I thought the RS/R final drive about 15% longer than the GS was ideal. Is the RT the same?

Assuming LC`s the RT is 2.75, RS 2.82 and GS`s 2.91, so you can clearly see where BMW set the drive ratios for the characteristics to suit each particular bike:- high gearing for relaxed cruising on the RT, low geared for a supposed off-roader on the GS, and the RS`s midway between the two for a sporty ride with good throttle response and accelleration but without the busyness of the GS`s lower gearing.

So to lower the GS`s gearing by a worthwhile amount the RT final drive would be the one to go for with a 5.8% reduction in engine speed or corresponding increase in road speed for any given engine rpm.
The RS`s final drive would only give a drop of ~3% which would be borderline noticeable.
The engine, gearbox ratios etc on all three models are identical as far as i can tell, the only difference being the final drive.

A 15% drop even if possible would be far too much rendering a bike lacking in flexibility and ruining any performance added to the possible side-effect of increased fuel consumption.

The 5.8% drop of the RT final drive is just enough to take the edge off the busy feeling whilst retaining that glorious spread of torque and flexibility. After all, it`s exactly the same set-up as BMW thought suitable for an RT...

[spareparts]

Not seen many in those colours - looks good.

I've never ridden a GS, but well ridden ones can certainly "make progress". I used to have a bit of fun with a rider of one every so often, on the final bit of my commute home many years ago when I was on my GSX-R 750.

I guess I should try a low chassis / low seat height one art some point.

Cheers Andy - the 40th Anniversary spec which they replicated across the rest of their range. https://www.bmw-motorrad.co.uk/en/ex...-years-gs.html

It's an uncanny combination of the Paralever which prevents the swingarm geometry changes under acceleration and allows you to get on the throttle really early in bends, plus the Telelever which provides stability and irons out bump-steer on corner entry. Combined with more torque low down than most other bikes, and it's an effective combination to make progress. Low CoG from the Boxer is advantageous at low speeds plus whenever someone on another bike complains about bikes being top-heavy when fueled. What it lacks is the top end HP from higher revving motors, but it is only at track-only speeds that the HP advantage becomes clear. Everywhere else, the chassis enables you to make the most of the torque. Certainly be willing to give one a try... and I would recommend asking your dealer if they can loan you one over a weekend. The GS does take some re-adjustment in riding style when coming straight from a more regular bike in order to get the best out of its format.

Assuming LC`s the RT is 2.75, RS 2.82 and GS`s 2.91, so you can clearly see where BMW set the drive ratios for the characteristics to suit each particular bike:- high gearing for relaxed cruising on the RT, low geared for a supposed off-roader on the GS, and the RS`s midway between the two for a sporty ride with good throttle response and accelleration but without the busyness of the GS`s lower gearing.

So to lower the GS`s gearing by a worthwhile amount the RT final drive would be the one to go for with a 5.8% reduction in engine speed or corresponding increase in road speed for any given engine rpm.
The RS`s final drive would only give a drop of ~3% which would be borderline noticeable.
The engine, gearbox ratios etc on all three models are identical as far as i can tell, the only difference being the final drive.

A 15% drop even if possible would be far too much rendering a bike lacking in flexibility and ruining any performance added to the possible side-effect of increased fuel consumption.

The 5.8% drop of the RT final drive is just enough to take the edge off the busy feeling whilst retaining that glorious spread of torque and flexibility. After all, it`s exactly the same set-up as BMW thought suitable for an RT...

Thanks for the detail. On my R, sitting at 70mph was about 500rpm less than on the GS. This was a noticeable drop, but still allowed rapid overtakes at speed. If the RT is another 300rpm or so lower, that would be quite a bit of a drop and may simply demand a gear lower to maintain the same levels of acceleration. Not a hardship by any imagination, and perhaps good for higher speed manoeuvres at maybe the expense of lower speed snappyness that make the GS feel like a giant supermoto.

[blackal]

It's an uncanny combination of the Paralever which prevents the swingarm geometry changes under acceleration and allows you to get on the throttle really early in bends, plus the Telelever which provides stability and irons out bump-steer on corner entry. Combined with more torque low down than most other bikes, and it's an effective combination to make progress. Low CoG from the Boxer is advantageous at low speeds plus whenever someone on another bike complains about bikes being top-heavy when fueled. What it lacks is the top end HP from higher revving motors, but it is only at track-only speeds that the HP advantage becomes clear. Everywhere else, the chassis enables you to make the most of the torque. Certainly be willing to give one a try... and I would recommend asking your dealer if they can loan you one over a weekend. The GS does take some re-adjustment in riding style when coming straight from a more regular bike in order to get the best out of its format.

They have always been great bikes. I did around 50,000miles on two GSAs (the SC and the TC), before moving to an S1000XR.

But I don't discount returning to a GS1250 at some stage.

I always opined that the suspension flattered a medium-ability rider, and made him fast and confident on real roads, where it would take a pretty fast road rider on a conventional suspended bike - to better him (and didn't get spooked by shit road surfaces)

I'm past the stage of seriously-modifying bikes, but the new 1250 with road wheels (17" front and back) - would be so potent (and carbon fibre wheels if poss)

[spareparts]

They have always been great bikes. I did around 50,000miles on two GSAs (the SC and the TC), before moving to an S1000XR.

But I don't discount returning to a GS1250 at some stage.

I always opined that the suspension flattered a medium-ability rider, and made him fast and confident on real roads, where it would take a pretty fast road rider on a conventional suspended bike - to better him (and didn't get spooked by shit road surfaces)

I'm past the stage of seriously-modifying bikes, but the new 1250 with road wheels (17" front and back) - would be so potent (and carbon fibre wheels if poss)

Suspicions are that the upcoming M1300GS will be just that - 17"s both ends. Certainly I count myself as a medium-ability rider, and the GS makes the ability to go far and fast in every kind of condition a boon when on tour. And if it means being more relaxed more of the time, then that is a good thing regardless of the rider's ability.

[E_2_Right-Force]

On my R, sitting at 70mph was about 500rpm less than on the GS.

At 70mph a 1250 GS will be doing 4060rpm, an R/RS 3931rpm and an RT (or GS with RT final drive..) 3835rpm.

[joe narvey]

At 70mph a 1250 GS will be doing 4060rpm, an R/RS 3931rpm and an RT (or GS with RT final drive..) 3835rpm.

Can I ask how you know or calculated that?
Thanks

[spareparts]

At 70mph a 1250 GS will be doing 4060rpm, an R/RS 3931rpm and an RT (or GS with RT final drive..) 3835rpm.

I appreciate your view on technical calculations and you might be right; but in the real world, the difference certainly feels and according to my poor eyesight - is larger than what you suggest. (I'm not really interested in arguing this, but I also doubt BMW would engineer and manufacture different final drive ratios for less than 100rpm difference between the models).

[E_2_Right-Force]

Can I ask how you know or calculated that?
Thanks

Well....seeing as you asked....
It`s just a case of plotting the drive from crankshaft rotation (rpm) through the various gearbox/final drive ratios to work out the rotational speed of the rear wheel multiplied by the tyre circumference to calculate how far you would travel in one hour (mph).

The 1250 engine is a little bit unconventional as it doesn`t just have the usual two shafts in the gearbox - an input shaft and a `layshaft` like you would find in an inline 4 for example, but a total of four shafts: an additional input shaft and a final output shaft to the (swingarm) driveshaft both with a reduction ratio.

So............

4000 (engine rpm) / 1.650 (transmission input ratio) / 0.848 (sixth gear ratio) / 1.061 (transmission output ratio) / 2.91 (final drive ratio) = 925 (rear wheel rotation per minute)

925 x 60 (mins/hr) x 6.56` (circumference of rear tyre) = 364,080` / 5280 (ft per mile) = 69 (mph) or 58rpm per mph in top gear.


70mph x 58 = 4060rpm...........

Interestingly, the tacho on the TFT matches exactly the above calculations when comparing engine speed versus road speed both before and after i did the final drive swap.

I appreciate your view on technical calculations and you might be right; but in the real world, the difference certainly feels and according to my poor eyesight - is larger than what you suggest. (I'm not really interested in arguing this, but I also doubt BMW would engineer and manufacture different final drive ratios for less than 100rpm difference between the models).

It may well be a perception thing on your part -or eyesight!, but as you can see from the ratios as used by BMW and confirmed by a stamping/etching on each final drive case there is indeed very little actual difference between the three main final drive types. It`s just `fine tuning` on BMW`s part to create the best characteristics for each particular bike.

As i said earlier everything `upstream` of the final drive relating to the driveline are identical on all 1250 engines so;

Difference between a 2.75 and a 2.82 final drive is only ~2.5%
Difference between a 2.82 and a 2.91 would be ~3.1%
The largest difference is when comparing the 2.75 and the 2.91: 5.8%

These percentages can be directly applied to work out the difference in either engine or road speed when comparing one final drive with another.

[/nerd]

[Saint-Just]

^ impressive.

Possibly even more impressed you used imperial throughout. I had no idea how many feet there were in a mile, I would have made the calculations using metric and converted in mph

[joe narvey]

Well....seeing as you asked....
It`s just a case of plotting the drive from crankshaft rotation (rpm) through the various gearbox/final drive ratios to work out the rotational speed of the rear wheel multiplied by the tyre circumference to calculate how far you would travel in one hour (mph).

The 1250 engine is a little bit unconventional as it doesn`t just have the usual two shafts in the gearbox - an input shaft and a `layshaft` like you would find in an inline 4 for example, but a total of four shafts: an additional input shaft and a final output shaft to the (swingarm) driveshaft both with a reduction ratio.

So............

4000 (engine rpm) / 1.650 (transmission input ratio) / 0.848 (sixth gear ratio) / 1.061 (transmission output ratio) / 2.91 (final drive ratio) = 925 (rear wheel rotation per minute)

925 x 60 (mins/hr) x 6.56` (circumference of rear tyre) = 364,080` / 5280 (ft per mile) = 69 (mph) or 58rpm per mph in top gear.


70mph x 58 = 4060rpm...........

Interestingly, the tacho on the TFT matches exactly the above calculations when comparing engine speed versus road speed both before and after i did the final drive swap.





It may well be a perception thing on your part -or eyesight!, but as you can see from the ratios as used by BMW and confirmed by a stamping/etching on each final drive case there is indeed very little actual difference between the three main final drive types. It`s just `fine tuning` on BMW`s part to create the best characteristics for each particular bike.

As i said earlier everything `upstream` of the final drive relating to the driveline are identical on all 1250 engines so;

Difference between a 2.75 and a 2.82 final drive is only ~2.5%
Difference between a 2.82 and a 2.91 would be ~3.1%
The largest difference is when comparing the 2.75 and the 2.91: 5.8%

These percentages can be directly applied to work out the difference in either engine or road speed when comparing one final drive with another.

[/nerd]

Great, thank you. I’m going to go stare at my GSA in wonderment now !

[downer]

Impressive calcs on the BMW 1250 stuff!

As for my GS, having agreed a trade-in value back in January, I have to admit I've barely used it in the last couple of months. Had a short ride on it yesterday and started continued to wonder if I'm doing the right thing in swapping it for a new Tiger 1200. Perhaps I should have stuck with another GS... perhaps I can still do that...

[oliverte]

Tried some green laning today on the old GS

Had so much fun, helped by the fact I've just had some Anakee Adventure tires fitted

I've definitely got the big for adventure bikes and seriously considering whether I should move my Ducati out and bring in a more modern stablemate to the old GS

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[wileeeeeey]

Impressive calcs on the BMW 1250 stuff!

As for my GS, having agreed a trade-in value back in January, I have to admit I've barely used it in the last couple of months. Had a short ride on it yesterday and started continued to wonder if I'm doing the right thing in swapping it for a new Tiger 1200. Perhaps I should have stuck with another GS... perhaps I can still do that...

Or stick with what you've got? That looks brand new.

[downer]

Or stick with what you've got? That looks brand new.

Yeah, i must admit my GS wears its 25000 miles well. Anyway, the deal is now finalised and the new GT Explorer is incoming at the end of the week.

[learningtofly]

Yeah, i must admit my GS wears its 25000 miles well. Anyway, the deal is now finalised and the new GT Explorer is incoming at the end of the week.

I’m sure you’ll love it, and there’s no harm trying something different.

[downer]

I’m sure you’ll love it, and there’s no harm trying something different.

You are right. Worst case scenario, I'll crawl back to the mothership with my tail between my legs.

[wileeeeeey]

Yeah, i must admit my GS wears its 25000 miles well. Anyway, the deal is now finalised and the new GT Explorer is incoming at the end of the week.

Wow, very well indeed. I'm out of the loop with Triumph, that looks great. Big leap forward from the last one I test rodeo. 2017 or so.

[Gyp]

I've just taxed bike #2.

£101

Strewth.

Best I go out and make some use of it.

Trying to decide if the best bike to take to France in July is the 3-year old Triumph or the 33-year old Beemer.

[spareparts]

Perfect riding weather and had a lovely bimble out with Andy on his S1000R. After doing just 15miles last year between MOTs, the old girl 1098R had a healthy 205miler today alone. Andy, your bike sounds terrific on the overrun with the girgles and crackles. Days like these are life affirming! Thanks for a top day out

Looming around.



Dirty girl’’s been out…

Back home with her bro.



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[andy tims]

Indeed a very enjoyable ride. We had some luck with light traffic on some of the best bits given how nice the weather was today.
The 1098R looks the business and sounds epic.
The BM is even dirtier, but Vines can debug it as part of the running in service tomorrow. Very much looking forward to giving it full beans.

[manganr]

Perfect riding weather and had a lovely bimble out with Andy on his S1000R. After doing just 15miles last year between MOTs, the old girl 1098R had a healthy 205miler today alone. Andy, your bike sounds terrific on the overrun with the girgles and crackles. Days like these are life affirming! Thanks for a top day out

Looming around.



Dirty girl’’s been out…

Back home with her bro.



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What an amazing pair. The best of both worlds . Would definitely be hard to beat!

[Gyp]

Checked my tyres this afternoon. Date stamp 2308. That means best before August next year, doesn't it?

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[Enoch]

Checked my tyres this afternoon. Date stamp 2308. That means best before August next year, doesn't it?

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I think that means week 23 year 08

[Plake]

Checked my tyres this afternoon. Date stamp 2308. That means best before August next year, doesn't it?

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Is it 5 years for tyres before they lose it a bit?

On an only vaguely related note I remember reading that it is 5 for helmets before it’s suggested that they are changed.

[Plake]

Perfect riding weather and had a lovely bimble out with Andy on his S1000R. After doing just 15miles last year between MOTs, the old girl 1098R had a healthy 205miler today alone. Andy, your bike sounds terrific on the overrun with the girgles and crackles. Days like these are life affirming! Thanks for a top day out

Looming around.



Dirty girl’’s been out…

Back home with her bro.



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This looks and sounds like a brilliant day out. Someone in Brighton on the Sussex Social Riders group was asking for an instabuddy to ride up to Loomies today. If I hadn’t been full on booked up with other stuff I’d have done it.

[Gyp]

I think that means week 23 year 08

Yeah, I know. I guess I was a little surprised at how long ago I put that front on.

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[Gyp]

Is it 5 years for tyres before they lose it a bit?

On an only vaguely related note I remember reading that it is 5 for helmets before it’s suggested that they are changed.

Continental (as mine is) suggest tyres are changed if they are over 10 years old. As these have been on a garaged bike in the dark and show no signs of degradation I think they'll be ok for now.

The 5 year suggestion for helmets is fairly common but similarly a lot will depend on how much use it gets, how it's cared for and how it's stored when not in use

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[blackal]

Out yesterday for first run of the year on the HP2s.

Stopped in front of the Bernat Klein Design Studio (sadly in disrepair)..............

Bernat Klein - a Serbian textile designer who formed "Colourcraft (Gala) Ltd and this was his studio - a couple of miles north of Selkirk. He designed for many of the big fashion houses. It is classic Post-modernism and was one of the designs by Peter Womersley.

[spareparts]

What an amazing pair. The best of both worlds . Would definitely be hard to beat!

Although I have a constant wish list for other bikes (the n+1 rule ), your sentiment is somewhat where I find myself. Lots of different bikes have come and gone, except for these two: it has been 13 years with the Ducati since almost new, and now my 4th GS (2 x 1200s and 2 x 1250s). There have been faster bikes. There have been flashier bikes. There have been more 'characterful' bikes. There have been more utilitarian bikes. However - none have managed to deliver the capabilities, excitement, and all round ownership satisfaction as either the Ducati 1098R or BMW GS. But I am still always looking for another...

[spareparts]

Out yesterday for first run of the year on the HP2s.

Stopped in front of the Bernat Klein Design Studio (sadly in disrepair)..............

Bernat Klein - a Serbian textile designer who formed "Colourcraft (Gala) Ltd and this was his studio - a couple of miles north of Selkirk. He designed for many of the big fashion houses. It is classic Post-modernism and was one of the designs by Peter Womersley.

Delightful. Love the detailing on these and how every component and part seems to be custom milled and crafted.

[Enoch]

Ok… so after my accident I still don’t have enough range of movement in my left leg to ride any of my bikes…. It’s coming but not as quickly as I’d like. I’ve got a bit fed up of all my mates getting out and about without me. So today I’ve bought this.

My very first scooter…

[higham5]

Ok… so after my accident I still don’t have enough range of movement in my left leg to ride any of my bikes…. It’s coming but not as quickly as I’d like. I’ve got a bit fed up of all my mates getting out and about without me. So today I’ve bought this.

My very first scooter…

][/url]

Ill give you six weeks and it will be chopped in for a TMax :). Scoots can be great fun, great weather protection, stacks of storage, just watch side winds.

Great to see you back on two wheels again.

Ps Its a good job they dont still make make the Gilera GP800. Aprilla 800 v twin, they would leave a black tyre mark for about 10 feet on accelleration. You would be all over that

[Enoch]

Ill give you six weeks and it will be chopped in for a TMax :). Scoots can be great fun, great weather protection, stacks of storage, just watch side winds.

Great to see you back on two wheels again.

Ps Its a good job they dont still make make the Gilera GP800. Aprilla 800 v twin, they would leave a black tyre mark for about 10 feet on accelleration. You would be all over that

I’ve looked at a few, and the TMax is nice, but flippin eck…. It’s expensive… my mate just got a Bergmann 400🤔

Due to my current situation, light weight was a big consideration. The Forza ticked the most boxes for me.👍

[Gyp]

Due to my current situation, light weight was a big consideration. The Forza ticked the most boxes for me.�

By coincidence the Forza 350 came up on another forum, and as I said there, having a bike that's practical, accessible and usable is far better than a awesomely impressive bike that you can't realistically ride.

Keep getting better so you can embrace impracticality again :-)

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[manganr]

Although I have a constant wish list for other bikes (the n+1 rule ), your sentiment is somewhat where I find myself. Lots of different bikes have come and gone, except for these two: it has been 13 years with the Ducati since almost new, and now my 4th GS (2 x 1200s and 2 x 1250s). There have been faster bikes. There have been flashier bikes. There have been more 'characterful' bikes. There have been more utilitarian bikes. However - none have managed to deliver the capabilities, excitement, and all round ownership satisfaction as either the Ducati 1098R or BMW GS. But I am still always looking for another...

I think you'll be hard pressed to find a better pair. I'm the same. Always looking for another bike. Can't do supersports bikes anymore and I've owned most of the big guns. Can't see me parting with the GS it's such a great all round bike. Bought the old school 1098 Streetfighter for the superbike performance in a comfier package but now have an urge to chop it in for the Superduke GT. Comfy but still mental and newer. First World problems eh! Anyway, that GS looks far to clean....

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[Omegamanic]

I was tempted to pick up a new sports bike for this years TT. The Honda Fireblade SP was looking likely, but I fear a bit more Yoga would be required for me to enjoy it as much, as I’ve got far to used to my GS and Africa Twin.

Anyone still persevering with the sports bikes, or have super nakeds taken over, if so which should I consider?

[blackal]

I was tempted to pick up a new sports bike for this years TT. The Honda Fireblade SP was looking likely, but I fear a bit more Yoga would be required for me to enjoy it as much, as I’ve got far to used to my GS and Africa Twin.

Anyone still persevering with the sports bikes, or have super nakeds taken over, if so which should I consider?

I still enjoy my R-1 and HP2s, but yes - the nakeds do appear to be more appealing even in UK now.

I got put off the MT-10 by the abysmal tank range (125m on a good day), whereas the S1000R is more like 180.

R1250R (if you like twins) and the shift cam does not appear to be unreliable in any way.

MT-09 if you want something even more nimble than the litre bikes.

Tracer GT, is a great bike.

Tuono V4? Lovely!

Prob the only nakeds that would interest me.

[SimonH]

I was tempted to pick up a new sports bike for this years TT. The Honda Fireblade SP was looking likely, but I fear a bit more Yoga would be required for me to enjoy it as much, as I’ve got far to used to my GS and Africa Twin.

Anyone still persevering with the sports bikes, or have super nakeds taken over, if so which should I consider?

Honda Fireblade you say, here's mine



Oh, you were talking about the latest one with 80 odd more horsepower...well I sat on one, it was what made me decide to get an older one because I concluded I could live with it given I'm not going to go touring on it.

But...since I made the move to upright nakeds previously I have lost a lot of weight and gotten a load more fit so although I am still about as flexible as a board my back is better (fingers crossed!!!!) so it copes ok with it. No regrets on buying mine for sure but if it goes wrong and I have to sell it it wasn't a big investment so not going to lose much if anything.

[cinnabull]

Enoch
Good to see you haven’t given up pal, given all you’ve been through that would have been the option of most people. And so good to see you will be back on 2 wheels again.

If you’re heading over N Wales anytime soon hit me up, it will be good to catch up again.

Stuart


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[j0hnbarker]

Enjoying my sports bike. My wrists are learning to cope too!

[blackal]

Enjoying my sports bike. My wrists are learning to cope too!

Brutal bikes! Not for 'round the houses' - an Open Roads bike.

[Enoch]

Enoch
Good to see you haven’t given up pal, given all you’ve been through that would have been the option of most people. And so good to see you will be back on 2 wheels again.

If you’re heading over N Wales anytime soon hit me up, it will be good to catch up again.

Stuart


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I’m aiming for Bala this weekend mate👍👍

[andy tims]

I’m aiming for Bala this weekend mate

That's the spirit. Good in you.

[wileeeeeey]

Good for you Enoch, can't keep you down.

[pugster]

good to see you are back on a bike enoch , a fella ive spoken too a few times at the food stop cafe in quatt (bridgnorth ) comes in on one of these which he reckons is a hoot to ride and very stable

[j0hnbarker]

Brutal bikes! Not for 'round the houses' - an Open Roads bike.

Yep!

First gear is so high that you would be stuck in it forever in town. The throttle too is either off or on, so quite snatchy at low revs and throttle openings.

Luckily I live in the Derbyshire Dales, so open country roads are right on my doorstep.

[cinnabull]

I’m aiming for Bala this weekend mateðŸ‘�ðŸ‘�

Sunday?


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[blackal]

Yep!

First gear is so high that you would be stuck in it forever in town. The throttle too is either off or on, so quite snatchy at low revs and throttle openings.

Luckily I live in the Derbyshire Dales, so open country roads are right on my doorstep.

Exact same as my HP2s - I think another that is same is the old RSV-mile.

I 'almost' bought a new SP2 as my first bike after passing my direct access. Doubt I would be here, writing this- if I had!

[wileeeeeey]

Exact same as my HP2s - I think another that is same is the old RSV-mile.

I 'almost' bought a new SP2 as my first bike after passing my direct access. Doubt I would be here, writing this- if I had!

A guy from school got either an R1 or R6 at 18/19 and it was two or three months between purchase and burial. Straight into a double decker bus on a 30mph road at over 70mph. Typical youngster -- roof boxer helmet in shorts and a t-shirt.

[oldoakknives]

Ok… so after my accident I still don’t have enough range of movement in my left leg to ride any of my bikes…. It’s coming but not as quickly as I’d like. I’ve got a bit fed up of all my mates getting out and about without me. So today I’ve bought this.

My very first scooter…

Good to hear you're making progress and getting out and about. Take your time and take care mate!