Ive been left some money and want to buy a Black Submariner date. Always wanted one and it will be to wear not to stick away.
Looking at the prices there are big differences. I understand that you pay a premium for box and papers but what else causes the difference?
Is a Ceramic bezel better than the older type? Is it the general rule that the older the watch the dearer it will be ?
Thanks for any advice
Simon
If I were you I would go and visit an authorised Rolex dealer and get on the waiting list for a new one. This way you will only pay retail price, nobody else has worn the watch and you’ll have your name on the papers.
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I’ll elaborate a bit. These are in high demand brand new so there is a waiting list. The older models have a different case shape so it may be worth trying both types on first. You can do this at a great dealer like watchfinder as they tend to have tons of stuff in stock. Based on that experience you can probably decide what fits you best.
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There’s a search feature. You’ll find everything you need to know there because it’s one of the most talked about models. Both new and old.
Happy reading and welcome to the forum.
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Last edited by Andyp1973; 30th July 2018 at 21:51.
Prices will vary hugely depending on condition, box and papers, service history and a myriad of smaller details which Rolex collectors will obsess about.
Examples of this include what fonts are used, is the Submariner written in red or white script, does it have ft or m first, what calibre does it have, does it have a plain or engraved rehaut, is the bracelet original, has the bracelet stretched, does it have Service parts, has it been overpolished, is it an acrylic or Sapphire crystal, is the dial gloss or matt, what are the minute markers like, is the luminous paint Tritium or Luminova, is the bezel green if so what shade and is it a Flat 4...
Unfortunately the list is near endless and because small details can make such a huge difference to pricing fakes and so called frankenwatches abound to catch out the unwary.
As someone has already said, if you want to avoid all of this then buy new.
However, if you like the older shape or want one from a specific year, like your year of birth, do your research and be sure to use a reputable dealer to avoid being ripped off.
Hopefully some help to get you started?
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Definitely try the old one first. I have a 16610, 1998 sub and much prefer it to the current larger case.
Also depends in part how much you want to spend.
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Originally Posted by Andyp1973
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Thank you for the brilliant responses.
I have just made an enquiry with Goldsmiths about a brand new one but will definitely have a look at new and used when I go in to Liverpool and Chester this week.
I like the year of birth idea too so will look in to that
Thanks again
Simon
Is the newer watch harder wearing?
With the newer watch being bigger is it heavier also?
- - - Updated - - -
Is your reply supposed to be blank?
As has been mentioned if you really want to know then a quick search of the forum or Google will reveal the answers to your questions and you may learn a whole load of other useful info too.
No I edited my original comment and it’s duplicated for some reason. Not sure why.
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They use the same calibre but Rolex moved their criteria to +/- 2 seconds per day for the current model.
The newer version has a ceramic bezel insert rather than an aluminium one as well as an improved ratcheting system to make it smoother in operation.
The new bracelet uses solid links and a more advanced clasp design making it heavier and less prone to rattle than the older one.
However the old bracelet has been proved incredibly durable over many years and doesn't rely on a stainless steel weld to attached the bracelet to the clasp which did reportedly fail on some early models.
Both models are close to bulletproof for the average user!
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blimey.
As a newbie I’m gobsmacked at the info you have listed. I just didn’t realise the different issues.
An impossible question for you to answer maybe but why so many differences
And the newer ceramic models are not bigger - both are 40mm. The new ones with larger lugs and more square case look/feel a bit bigger on the wrist.
Personally I find glidelock glidelock clasp and bezel action on the newer one adds a real premium feel thats worth the premium.
Both share the same bullet proof movement.
Definitely try the older hollow bracelet before buying one - very durable and functional but it can feel a little underwhelming if you were not expecting the rattley feel.
Pop into Miltons on the precinct and see what's available perhaps...
Sorry this doesn’t answer your questions, but my main bit of advice would be: don’t rush. Do your research before buying anything. If it’s being bought with money left to you (the implication is the passing away of a family member?) then you want to buy something you’ll be happy with forever. There have been lots of models of Submariner over the decades and they vary more than you’d think, so take your time and read up, try some on, to make sure you get the right version for you (everyone will recommend you something different).
Definitely take your time is the best advice anyone can give you. There are so many things to consider so find out for sure which model is best for you before making a final decision.
Don't be afraid to look and try some on and walk away. They're only shops trying to sell you things after all, don't be intimidated by shop assistants with snooty attitudes as can be the case in some dealers.
ook
Just buy it if you can. Easy sell for a small loss if it dont work out.
Based on the fact that you're a self confessed 'newbie', I'd stay clear of vintage Subs for the time being, unless you're happy to live and breathe the blighters for a fair while in the course of researching your first acquisition. My advice would be to consider those from say 16610/14060 era onwards (late 80's/early 90's) and once you've decided between ali or ceramic insert, you can start narrowing it down further by price / package / dealer or private etc etc. And as said already, take your time.
If it's your first Rolex, buy new. Avoid all the potential issues of both the vintage market, which you need to know a lot more than you would think, or the feeling that you wish you had bought a new one.
A new one will have a 5 year warranty. Even a freshly serviced older watch will only have a maximum of two years.
Buy new. If you really like it and really get into watches then consider what next. You might decide you want an older model, or a completely different brand of watch, but you'll be able to decide from a position of experience and having tried the current model. The new bracelet clasp, on the current model, virtually put all otter watch brands to shame in their lack of adjustability when it first came out - it is very very good. They feel great on to.
I have owned many current and older myself l model Subs. You really can't go wrong with the security of Rolex after sales service on a new one.
Good luck!
It's just a matter of time...
As already mentioned do a lot of research and try on as many as you can.
This video is worth a look...................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAHE...ature=youtu.be
That's sound advice, if the OP can stomach the look of the chunkier ceramic models. Personally I think the older ali bezel insert models are far better looking, with a nicer size / weight, and I've never been unable to adjust a 93150 sufficiently to make it comfortable for daily wear, though I agree, later examples are superior from a purely technical POV.
Plenty of trusted sellers in the UK both privately and online / high street, from whom you'll be able to acquire a lovely condition, perhaps recently serviced, full set classic Sub. Just need to do your research, which IMO is all part of the fun / interest of buying a watch.
If I were in the market for a Sub date this is what I purchase, plus you have the additional benefit it comes from Haywood.
I cannot imagine you would ever lose anything if you ever decided to sell and potentially make on it in time.
https://www.miltonaires.com/product/7113
Last edited by boring_sandwich; 31st July 2018 at 08:34.
This^. You can check the website as well before you go, www.miltonaires.com
Out of interest, why a Submariner date, why not a Submariner (no date) or even a Seadweller. The usual consideration for some is a cyclops or not, some see it as a classic Rolex look, others prefer the neater symmetry of a tidy dial with a smooth glass, like the original Submariners as the date version only came in 1969 about 15 years after the original model.
If the date function is important, but you don't really like the cyclops then a SD is the logical choice.
Just tossing this in for consideration before you head off to the shops.
Like others, I agree with heading to Haywood's shop in St Johns precinct. At least he has the various models in stock, even if some may be reserved. I am sure if you tell them that you are a TZ'er they will look after you.
Google images or the Friday thread on here are your friends
The Submariner first appeared 64 years ago. As you might expect, there have been many incremental changes over that time. There are really no issues, just differences, they're well known for being one of the most reliable and serviceable watches ever made, which is why there are so many vintage models around today. And still remain very popular.
Since the Submariner has now been in production for so long there has been a combination of manufacturing changes allied to upgrades and improvements from Rolex which throw up generally small - but sometimes major - differences.
I sometimes suspect that Rolex do it deliberately to maintain interest - such as the use of the Flat-4 on the Submariner 16610LV or the stick II on the last of the 5-digit GMT Master II series both of which are now becoming highly sought after!
All of these differences can have a dramatic impact upon the value of a particular watch - details that many non-collectors wouldn't even notice.
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Last edited by adg31; 31st July 2018 at 11:20.
Im after the new sub date (116610LN) and i cant even try one on. None of my local ADs (Bristol) have any in stock. I have only just managed to get on a 12 Month waiting list!
I would definitely find somewhere to try one on even if it’sa two time model to see the size and how it wears.
I would also check out the No date sub too
How long are Goldsmiths and David Robinson waiting lists ?
was quoted a 6 months wait for a GMT LN
Last edited by Ivan Drago; 10th August 2018 at 09:50.
Welcome aboard the gravy train!
Depending on your age, the birth year aspect opens a mine field. A datejust maybe but for a sub/date sub a lot of knowledge is requires. Certainly in terms of availability and affordability. I have often ponder on this idea myself but red line 1972 date sub are out of budget !!
Is that David Robinson in Lpool? I went in today and he said there was no list but then I mentioned I was going to get a datejust for the wife too and he said to ring in a couple of weeks and if I order the datejust he'll take a deposit on the sub
Hello mateOut of interest, why a Submariner date, why not a Submariner (no date) or even a Seadweller. The usual consideration for some is a cyclops or not, some see it as a classic Rolex look, others prefer the neater symmetry of a tidy dial with a smooth glass, like the original Submariners as the date version only came in 1969 about 15 years after the original model.
If the date function is important, but you don't really like the cyclops then a SD is the logical choice.
Just tossing this in for consideration before you head off to the shops.
Like others, I agree with heading to Haywood's shop in St Johns precinct. At least he has the various models in stock, even if some may be reserved. I am sure if you tell them that you are a TZ'er they will look after you.
Google images or the Friday thread on here are your friends
I'm after a Sub date as that's the one I like the look of the most and one I have always wanted.
I shall have a look in Haywoods on Thursday as I am back over there. Thanks again
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