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Thread: Vintage Connie/Seamaster experts - cast your eyes over these please

  1. #1
    Craftsman
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    Vintage Connie/Seamaster experts - cast your eyes over these please

    I'm interested in a Connie and/or Seamaster from around 1960+/-. It must be stainless, no goldie bits. A crosshair would be nice, as would the BOR bracelet, although I could add that later to the right watch.

    I'm thinking it might be a better long term investment to go for the chrono version but what do I know. There are a few on Chrono24 and I wondered if you experts could pick the bones out of these to help my learning about these watches. Pricing opinion also gratefully received!

    https://www.chrono24.co.uk/omega/con...-id6217459.htm

    https://www.chrono24.co.uk/omega/195...-id8669839.htm

    https://www.chrono24.co.uk/omega/men...-id8600628.htm

    Very nervous about the Frankens that might be lurking on that site so any help appreciated. If you feel like sniffing around the site and have other links, that would be great. Already reading up on the history and which cal goes with which watch (but still unsure about the ones above).

    I appreciate your comments!

  2. #2
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Repainted dials is a major risk with these older watches. At least on those listings the sellers seem to be declaring the true state of the dial. Another thing I have noticed, especially if you are considering a birth year watch is that many sellers get the year wrong. Best to check the serial number against the various Omega tables dotted around. That final watch must be around 1963/4 with a 20m serial number. Too lazy to check, I just know that 18m is 1961.

  3. #3
    Grand Master
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    Some Seamaster models were produced as chronometer-rated versions, which always seems a bit odd to me. Personally I wouldn’t pay a significant premium for one of these but sellers will try to ask big money, particularly on chrono24.

    Constellations sell for higher prices and originality is important to justify this. Check to confirm the correct movement is fitted, if it isn’t the chronometer version it’s been swapped at some point. Unfortunately the markings are on the bridges, not the mainplate, and these parts sometimes end up being replaced over the years.

    Many of these watches gave had dials replaced or refinished. Unfortunately many of the refinished dials are badly done, in styles/colours that were never produced originally. I prefer a good refinished dial to a scruffy original, but an original dial in good-excellent condition is far nicer........if you can find one!

    Bracelets are a subject in themself. Originals are often in very poor condition and aren’t worth a lot. A bracelet in good, albeit scruffy condition, can be refinished but it’s a laborious process to get them right again. Omega sell replacements, but the quality isn’t as good as the originals and construction differs in detail. Having said that, a replacement is a better option than a battered original that’s worn out. Fakes are often available on ebay, these are produced in the far east and possibly they come from the same factories as the Omega replacements.

    I’ve owned and worked on plenty of vintage Omegas, they’re excellent watches. I think it’s a mistake to get too hung up on originality, to me they’re good everyday wearers for a few hundred pounds. Very few are in genuine ‘collectors grade’ condition and they will invariably command top prices, but the real ‘value’ is in the slightly lesser examples that have been properly refinished and restored to give the same wearing experience as the original owner has when the watch was new.

    I could ramble on all day about these watches but I won’t. Some of my opinions are out of step with the current thinking with regards to refinishing and the concept if originality, I don’t subscribe to the Hodinkee/Worn and Wound philosophy that seems to influence people’s thinking thesedays. I’ve been criticised for over- restoring watches simply because I’ve done what needs doing to make the watch look new again and this seems to upset some folk.............f*** ‘em is my response thesedays, can’t be bothered arguing.

    Paul

  4. #4
    Craftsman
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    Thank you for the advice. Another post suggested asking Paul for information on these watches as you clearly know your stuff.

    As for painted dials, I definitely don't want to go there, some can be spotted a mile off ..

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302755142336

    I'm happy with either proper considered restoration or even a happily used one that looked like my Dad would have handed down to me (he used to wear Omegas but none have surfaced since his passing so I guess one of his many wives pawned them in).

  5. #5
    Grand Master
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    That's a typical poor example of a refinished dial!

    Just to complicate matters further, there are refinished dials that were done many years ago and they've now aged quite nicely, I have one on a late 50s Omega that was dirty and grimy when I bought it. I was convinced it was original till I cleaned it, then it became clear it had been refinished at some time. The dirt on the dial's caused the lacquer to yellow very slightly and given it a light patina, overall it's a nice result.

    There was a also a time when Omega could supply genuine replacement dials for the 60s stuff. I have a mid-60s gold Seamaster with a dial and handset that's definitely genuine but look too sharp to be the originals; my guess is that they were replaced byy genuine Omega items and consequently the watch looks just as it did when the owner bought it.

    As for crowns and glasses, don`t get me started! Suffice to say I will not tolerate a waterproof design that's no longer waterproof and if that means ditching the original crown that's what I do. Ideally I'll replace the seal in the crown but sometimes it just isn`t posible. Likewise with the glass, I now fit generic acrylic crystals rather than pay silly money for genuine Omega with the tiny symbol in the middle, and I don`t believe in sticking with an original that's been heavily scratched and polished etc in the past. These crystals can go crazy-paved if they get a sharp knock or scratch, it happened to me years ago with a watch. Sometimes these old crystals have tiny micro-cracks in the acrylic that are waiting to propagate when they get an impact.....best place for them's in the bin.

    My views on the birth-year madness are well-documented, I think it's silly and childish. If anyone wants a mid-60s hand-wound Omega with the 601 movement I can build one to whatever year they require, swap the train wheel bridge for one with the appropriate serial number and the job's done! By all means buy a watch from the era if you wish, but don`t fool yourself about the exact year unless there's very good evidence, at the day it's a silly fad that seems to appeal to blokes entering early middle-age.

    Paul

  6. #6
    Journeyman
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    Quote Originally Posted by broxie View Post
    I'm interested in a Connie and/or Seamaster from around 1960+/-. It must be stainless, no goldie bits. A crosshair would be nice, as would the BOR bracelet, although I could add that later to the right watch.

    I'm thinking it might be a better long term investment to go for the chrono version but what do I know. There are a few on Chrono24 and I wondered if you experts could pick the bones out of these to help my learning about these watches. Pricing opinion also gratefully received!

    https://www.chrono24.co.uk/omega/con...-id6217459.htm

    https://www.chrono24.co.uk/omega/195...-id8669839.htm

    https://www.chrono24.co.uk/omega/men...-id8600628.htm

    Very nervous about the Frankens that might be lurking on that site so any help appreciated. If you feel like sniffing around the site and have other links, that would be great. Already reading up on the history and which cal goes with which watch (but still unsure about the ones above).

    I appreciate your comments!
    If you like them, then the biggest issue is the price. None of these three are investments at these prices and in the condition shown and you could do much better but, it won't be easy for a quick buy. For me, they are nice and bright looking but they have polished a lot of the details away from the case, especially on the case backs. Have a look for pictures of good case backs and you can see all the stars on the conservatory, for example. I don't want to talk about originality as people have different ideas about whether they want an original dial and neither go into great detail about movements but, they should be bright and evenly coloured. Just to talk about one but my comments would apply to all three:

    I sold a watch the same as the third one last year. I'd just serviced it so put a 2 year warranty with it and the case was much sharper (look at the hippocampus on the back of the chrono24 one and you'll see it's been polished and it's not well defined anymore) so for me, it was a much nicer watch. The movement was evenly coloured and clean looking (obviously) as well. I sold that for under £500 which was a bit low as I got swamped with mails but, £600-700 would have been a good price. I'd put a value on the one you've seen of about £300-500.

    Good luck.

    Cheers, Chris

  7. #7
    Grand Master
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    Agree with Chris’s comments re the 3 watches.

    As for the movements, sometimes the rotor gets swapped for a better second- hand one and the finish often doesn’t match. These watches are probe to wearing the centre bush in the rotor, eventually the rotor will contact the caseback or movement and you can hear it scraping. Sellers can disguise this by fitting a thicker caseback gasket, but the witness narks around the edge of the rotor are a giveaway. However, sometimes a watch will have these marks on the rotor but will have very little freeplay in the bush, that’s a sign that the rotor bush has been repleced and all’s well. The movement might not look pretty but it could be in excellent condition if it’s been sorted out properly. One if my Constellations is like that, not the pretiest movement but it runs very well, all problems gad been sorted out in the past leaving me a very straightforward task to service it.

    As with all watches, particularly vintage, there’s no substitute for handling and inspecting the watch. Pictures rarely tell the full story, they need to be extremely good quality photos and this rarely happens thesedays. A good seller will take the trouble to produce high resolution pics, but many dealers don’t.

  8. #8
    I was looking for a birth year watch from 1958 for some years. The longer I waited the price from that year was going up. So I did my home work. Go to the Omega Forum for knowledge they also have a sales section. What I did figured a Omega from 1958 would be a quality watch and affordable.
    https://omegaforums.net/

    I got this one off Ebay the case was buffed a little and it does have wrong crown but a Omega crown off a constellation but from the correct year only flaws but box and papers. But the seller had make offer so got it for what it should be worth with the flaws. The Omega forum there knowledgeable so you can learn what to look for and what price to pay do like the two tone dial on the one I got good luck on your hunt. The ones with original bracelets will all ways have a higher price than ones with leather straps by some times 200-400 US more it seems when I was looking.


    Last edited by River Rat; 16th July 2018 at 14:32.

  9. #9
    Master
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    I know this isn’t precisely what you’re after but nice vintage omegas do pop up here occasionally. I bought, sold and bought back this lovely linen dial example from Velorum recently.

    hébergement gif

    Might be worth biding your time here...

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