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Thread: Mirrorless Upgrade Time A7 III, Fuji, long lenses....

  1. #1
    Master AAddict's Avatar
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    Mirrorless Upgrade Time A7 III, Fuji, long lenses....

    My head hurts haha.

    I only got into photography last year but am well and truly hooked. I've been using my Sony A6000 pretty much daily since I got it and have improved a lot. I was planning on upgrading next Spring but my A6000 has failed and is away being fixed by John Lewis (thankfully 2 year warranty with them). So this has got me searching.

    Use:

    Lots of portrait, mainly pets/dogs (some paid soon, have a few people asking).
    Action/Sports, Horse Jumping, Powerboat Racing, hopefully some Rallying soon.
    Some landscape, not too much.
    Street.
    Bird & Wildlife.

    I'm not heavily invested in glass, I use mainly vintage manual focus prime lenses and would want to adapt these to my next camera also. The lenses available and cost are one of my main worries. I was all set on getting the A7 III, and prime's don't worry me too much but when I started looking for a telephoto zoom I came to the realisation that the only long lens available is Sony's G Master 100-400mm which is outside of my comfort zone at £2500. I really want a long lens with Auto Focus, even though I use mainly manual focus I've been enjoying photographing birds and wildlife with a couple of 400mm manual lenses but it's one area that would benefit from a modern AF long lens. I really like the Sigma 150-600mm contemporary but it's currently only available in DSLR mounts so would require an MC11 adapter to use on mirrorless. I started looking into Fuji X-T2 & X-H1 as I would like the IBIS on the latter for my manual lenses. Fuji have the 100-400mm for £1200 is which is almost okay with me. But I've seen a couple of videos comparing the X-H1 & A7 III and the Sony always seems to come out on top. If third party companies had decent long tele lenses for the Sony I'm pretty sure I'd have an A7 III on order right now but as it stands I just don't know what to do.

    Another option is to buy the Sigma + MC11 and use on my A6000 if it ever comes back from John Lewis.....
    Last edited by AAddict; 15th July 2018 at 18:34.

  2. #2
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    I converted from canon DSLR with pro lenses (primes and zoom) to Fujifilm when the original X100 came out. I since bought the X-Pro 1 with the 35mm and 50mm equivalent primes. I would categorically never go back to full frame after Fujifilm. The in camera processing is so good that even if I misframe I don't need to do more than. A simple crop. I use JPEG almost exclusively now. Can highly recommend them. I don't use Tele lenses so can't comment on that. You can see some photos here if you want.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/rfmphotography/

  3. #3
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    Mirrorless Upgrade Time A7 III, Fuji, long lenses....

    I think the differences between the Fuji and Sony are pretty marginal and it would be hard to say which was ďbestĒ. I think it comes down to personal preference and what suits your style. Iíd try both and not pay too much attention to on-line reviews.

    The Fuji 100-400 is stabilised so you wouldnít necessarily need the X-H1 - you get nearly all the features on the XT-2. Or even the XT-20 for less again.

    The film simulation modes on the Fuji are wonderful. Great images straight out the camera. Iíve pretty much given up on RAW

  4. #4
    Master AAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesey View Post
    I converted from canon DSLR with pro lenses (primes and zoom) to Fujifilm when the original X100 came out. I since bought the X-Pro 1 with the 35mm and 50mm equivalent primes. I would categorically never go back to full frame after Fujifilm. The in camera processing is so good that even if I misframe I don't need to do more than. A simple crop. I use JPEG almost exclusively now. Can highly recommend them. I don't use Tele lenses so can't comment on that. You can see some photos here if you want.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/rfmphotography/
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalMass View Post
    I think the differences between the Fuji and Sony are pretty marginal and it would be hard to say which was ďbestĒ. I think it comes down to personal preference and what suits your style. Iíd try both and not pay too much attention to on-line reviews.

    The Fuji 100-400 is stabilised so you wouldnít necessarily need the X-H1 - you get nearly all the features on the XT-2. Or even the XT-20 for less again.

    The film simulation modes on the Fuji are wonderful. Great images straight out the camera. Iíve pretty much given up on RAW
    Thanks guys, appreciate the replies.

    Yes I've read time and again about the in camera jpeg processing on the Fuji's and the lovely film simulation modes. I definitely want to try one out.

  5. #5
    Journeyman pbr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalMass View Post
    I think the differences between the Fuji and Sony are pretty marginal and it would be hard to say which was “best”. I think it comes down to personal preference and what suits your style. I’d try both and not pay too much attention to on-line reviews.

    The Fuji 100-400 is stabilised so you wouldn’t necessarily need the X-H1 - you get nearly all the features on the XT-2. Or even the XT-20 for less again.

    The film simulation modes on the Fuji are wonderful. Great images straight out the camera. I’ve pretty much given up on RAW

    Big difference between the Sony A7 III and any of the Fujiīs mentioned is that the Sony has a full frame sensor - the Fujiīs are crop sensor cameras.

    Having said that, I use a Fuji X-T1 myself with a 23mm f/1.4 prime and am very happy even without the stabilizer. My son is a photojournalist though and has just bought a new A7 III for professional use.
    Last edited by pbr; 24th July 2018 at 08:43. Reason: Clearing up language

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by pbr View Post
    My son is a photojournalist though and has just bought a new A7 III for proffessional use.
    Interesting, hope the Sony is working for him. I know 2 pro's who this year have moved from Nikon/Canon to Sony this year. I shoot fashion/editorial (currently Nikon) i'm seriously considering the A7s.

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    Journeyman pbr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vulcangascompany View Post
    Interesting, hope the Sony is working for him. I know 2 pro's who this year have moved from Nikon/Canon to Sony this year. I shoot fashion/editorial (currently Nikon) i'm seriously considering the A7s.

    I know a lot of proīs are moving from the heavy bigger DSLRīs to the more compact mirrorless fullframe cameraīs these days. The Sony A7 III is a major contender as I understand it.
    Last edited by pbr; 24th July 2018 at 08:42. Reason: typo

  8. #8
    Iím a Fuji X user, but then I use short fl lenses and do mainly documentary work. But you shoot action and use long lenses, so Iíd actually go Canon DSLR. Reasons? L zooms are plentiful, and getting cheaper used as folk head for mirrorless. The weight saving is also pretty modest overall when youíve got a huge great lens on the front of the cam. Throw in fast autofocus and great high iso performance and youíve got a pretty compelling case for going old school. Finally, Canon will go mirrorless in a big way soon - they have to - and your L lenses may well still be usable, although I admit thatís not certain.

    Photography is just such an individual thing - but for maximum bang for your buck Iíd invest in used L glass and a body or two. If you get one full frame and one crop body thatís like having a free teleconverter too... Really handy for all that sports stuff.

  9. #9
    Master AAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simoscribbler View Post
    I’m a Fuji X user, but then I use short fl lenses and do mainly documentary work. But you shoot action and use long lenses, so I’d actually go Canon DSLR. Reasons? L zooms are plentiful, and getting cheaper used as folk head for mirrorless. The weight saving is also pretty modest overall when you’ve got a huge great lens on the front of the cam. Throw in fast autofocus and great high iso performance and you’ve got a pretty compelling case for going old school. Finally, Canon will go mirrorless in a big way soon - they have to - and your L lenses may well still be usable, although I admit that’s not certain.

    Photography is just such an individual thing - but for maximum bang for your buck I’d invest in used L glass and a body or two. If you get one full frame and one crop body that’s like having a free teleconverter too... Really handy for all that sports stuff.
    Your points about canon lenses are 100% correct, though I cannot use a DSLR after learning on mirrorless. I borrowed one for a day while my A6000 is away getting fixed and I just cannot cope as I shoot almost completely through EVF, an optical viewfinder seemed alien to me, and I hate that I cannot see the effect on settings changed through the viewfinder.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by AAddict View Post
    Your points about canon lenses are 100% correct, though I cannot use a DSLR after learning on mirrorless. I borrowed one for a day while my A6000 is away getting fixed and I just cannot cope as I shoot almost completely through EVF, an optical viewfinder seemed alien to me, and I hate that I cannot see the effect on settings changed through the viewfinder.
    Understood. I started taking pics as a kid in the 1970s on a Zorki4 and developed and printed in the loft, so Iíve used all of the main technologies in turn. So it must be odd to try to work backwards as it were. Anyhow, sounds like youíre going to have to dig deep either way, and Fuji has the advantage of a pretty well developed lens ecosystem already. But a full frame camera of the same generation as a crop of similar resolution will always have better high iso performance, which probably argues for the Sony. But since Iíve never used Sony I can't offer any advice as to which to choose. FWIW most Fuji lenses can be bought used, as can bodies, and should be easy enough to sell on if - or rather when - the big two come out with high end, sports oriented mirrorless.

  11. #11
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    Nikon look to be changing their lens mount with their mirrorless line. That has been in use since 1959. So potentially Canon will do the same. Canon lenses seem to work quite well with adaptors on Sony A bodies anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reecie View Post
    Nikon look to be changing their lens mount with their mirrorless line. That has been in use since 1959. So potentially Canon will do the same. Canon lenses seem to work quite well with adaptors on Sony A bodies anyway.
    It's sure going to be interesting to see the 'big two' answer to Sony.

  13. #13

    Mirrorless Upgrade Time A7 III, Fuji, long lenses....

    Quote Originally Posted by AAddict View Post
    Your points about canon lenses are 100% correct, though I cannot use a DSLR after learning on mirrorless. I borrowed one for a day while my A6000 is away getting fixed and I just cannot cope as I shoot almost completely through EVF, an optical viewfinder seemed alien to me, and I hate that I cannot see the effect on settings changed through the viewfinder.
    It gets easier with familiarisation.

    Having shot film for years my interest in photography waned until I discovered mirrorless. After a number of years shooting with that, mostly wildlife, I switched to a DSLR.

    The biggest single difference I noticed, as you point out, is the EVF. I loved it in the Panasonic and Olympus, and really missed it when I started with the Nikon. Until recently, though, blackout was an issue, and personally I now generally find myself preferring the optical viewfinder in pretty much most circumstances. I still use the mirrorless occasionally, and it is great for taking on shorter trips abroad where I donít want to lug the DSLR and 500mm along with me.

    I keep an eye on the mirrorless market, and certainly there are professional wildlife photographers making the move, but for me the lack of fast prime tele lenses still prevents me going back to mirrorless full time.

    When most of your photography is shot from a monopod or tripod then the extra weight of a DSLR and lens is less of an inconvenience, and more than made up for in the wider choice of fast glass available.

    I have little doubt that mirrorless is the future, but not just yet for me given my specific requirements.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by reecie View Post
    Nikon look to be changing their lens mount with their mirrorless line. That has been in use since 1959. So potentially Canon will do the same. Canon lenses seem to work quite well with adaptors on Sony A bodies anyway.
    The cynic in me would suggest it's to open up a whole new revenue stream for those with lots of legacy glass, either by virtue of an adapter or new, mirrorless specific glassware.


    Hijacking the thread slightly, I'm currently having the debate with myself regarding my Canon DSLR and it's lack of use (primarily down to size) and going down the mirrorless route. I was going down the Fujifilm route but am now veering towards the Sony A6500 and an adapter for my Canon glass (nothing special but of no real resale value either). Having handled the Sony briefly I'm amazed at what can be packed into such a small body. The size of the native lenses however...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by AAddict View Post
    It's sure going to be interesting to see the 'big two' answer to Sony.
    https://www.digitalrev.com/article/s...ontent=title03

    Sony also reported that its now overtaken Canon to become number one for interchangeable lens full-frame cameras in the US - a huge terrority for photography brands to sell in. In fact, it turns out that four out of every ten full-frame interchangeable lens cameras sold in the first half of 2018 were Sony.
    Nikonís version (or versions if the multiple model rumours are to be believed) is due to be announced August 23, while Canonís could follow at the huge Photokina Show in Germany come late September.
    Watching with baited breath, as an earlier adopter I've just bought a Canon 5D (the original) to go alongside my 40D ;0), hoping for more competition to push prices down on bodies.

  16. #16
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    I've Fuji x and Nikon FF. The x series is great but not a patch on FF for low light performance so can't see me getting rid of the Nikon just yet.

    I also have a slight luddite streak in that I prefer having more manual controls, don't feel quite so comfortable with the Fuji stuff in menus, although that may change if I used it more.

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    Still think optical viewfinders have a place - I just went back to a D700 Nikon but have an Oly OM-D MKII for micro 4/3 duty.

    I canít see the value of going for mirroless FF as the lenses will be heavy and large - itís physics.

  18. #18
    That's not completely true - there are a few small lenses for the Sony FF system: 28 f2, 35 f2.8, 50 f1.8, 55 f1.8, Loxia 21, Samyang 35 2.8 are examples.


    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    Still think optical viewfinders have a place - I just went back to a D700 Nikon but have an Oly OM-D MKII for micro 4/3 duty.

    I canít see the value of going for mirroless FF as the lenses will be heavy and large - itís physics.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombleh View Post
    I've Fuji x and Nikon FF. The x series is great but not a patch on FF for low light performance so can't see me getting rid of the Nikon just yet.

    I also have a slight luddite streak in that I prefer having more manual controls, don't feel quite so comfortable with the Fuji stuff in menus, although that may change if I used it more.
    Surely that's the beauty of going Fuji - lovely proper dials for everything!

  20. #20
    Master Tokyo Tokei's Avatar
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    The Nikon Z6 and Z7 mirrorless are expected to have the F-mount to Z-mount adapter included in the box. So you get full frame, Nikon ergonomics (and IQ) and access to the full very extensive high quality F-mount lens lineup (including older mechanical aperture lenses) with in-body stabilisation from the get-go.



    From here, which has more information.

    DSLRs continue to outsell mirrorless, but for those that prefer it, this is a good development. However, both ships are steadily sinking under the smartphone camera tsunami.



    The graph above is truncated vertically, go here for the full image. Mirror or no mirror is starting to seem like yesterday's debate. Pros generally continue to use DSLRs and the mass of amateurs their smartphones. The ever-shrinking “enthusiast” market needs to differentiate. Else these cameras become just an expensive way to post online the same filter-tastic photos that would be much easier to obtain and share with a smartphone.

    A decent-sized sensor, ergonomics and extensive lens selection are the cards being played now. Not many outside Nikon and Canon can claim to have all of those. And I say that as an Olympus mirrorless user.
    Last edited by Tokyo Tokei; 22nd August 2018 at 02:52.

  21. #21
    The pics i've seen of the Z6 & Z7 they look quite bulky, one of the reasons i like the Sony A7 is the small size and weight - its great for travel jobs away. I was a Nikon Pro who has now made the investment into the Sony system and i like it alot. I know quite a few pros who have moved to Sony last/this year from Nikon/Canon so its abit late for them to enter the market. The Sony full frame sensor is amazing - the quality is great. As I still have some Nikon cameras/lens it will be interesting to see the new models - its good that you can use older Nikon F mount lens on them thats a great decision to go with and provide an adaptor, assuming this doesn't affect focus, performance etc. Nikon doesn't have a great reputation sorting earlier focus problems.

    Great for choice though, electronic viewfinders with SLR performance had to come - optical viewfinders are C19th technology! They are reliable though and don't eat batteries - a real problem with the Sonys.

  22. #22
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    Letís see what Nikon announces tomorrow (23 August) when they present the new mirrorless camera. Me - Iím just about to take delivery of a D850 - which may see me out of this mortal coil

  23. #23
    Grand Master Carlton-Browne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    Letís see what Nikon announces tomorrow (23 August) when they present the new mirrorless camera. Me - Iím just about to take delivery of a D850 - which may see me out of this mortal coil
    That was precisely my thinking on the D810.
    Die Zeit verwandelt uns nicht, sie entfaltet uns nur.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlton-Browne View Post
    That was precisely my thinking on the D810.
    Indeed! The D810 is a superb piece of kit.

  25. #25
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    Looks like the launch price of the new Nikon Z7 is £3399 - body only.

    It has a 47MP sensor so youíll need plenty of computing power if you shoot RAW.

    I believe a Z6 will also appear Idc with a 24 MP sensor which will, I expect, be cheaper.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalMass View Post
    Looks like the launch price of the new Nikon Z7 is £3399 - body only.

    It has a 47MP sensor so you’ll need plenty of computing power if you shoot RAW.

    I believe a Z6 will also appear Idc with a 24 MP sensor which will, I expect, be cheaper.
    The Z6 is £1995, exactly as expected priced very much inline with their competitors the A7 III & A7 RIII. My initial thoughts are they're charging a hell of lot for f4 kit lens and f1.8 primes but I'll reserve judgement for proper reviews rather than all todays rushed out videos of hands ons.

    *edit* the proper weather sealing of the Z6 and 12fps uncompressed raw sound good along with much higher res viewfinder. It will be interesting to see if the auto-focus can match the amazing AF on the A7III.
    Last edited by AAddict; 23rd August 2018 at 12:38.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesey View Post
    Nice!

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    I'm holding out for the X-T3 (although I'm very close to pulling the trigger on an X-Pro2 as they look the absoute bits!)

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by vulcangascompany View Post
    optical viewfinders are C19th technology! They are reliable though and don't eat batteries - a real problem with the Sonys.
    I sadly feel the optical viewfinder is going the way of the dodo - or dinosaurs before the asteroid hit. Anyway perhaps itís 20th century rather than 21st century

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    I sadly feel the optical viewfinder is going the way of the dodo
    My current employer includes one of the world's largest news agencies. There is no sign of mirrorless at all with the professional photographers.

    The mirror still has some advantages. Not least, it operates at the speed of light. No EVF, now or in the future, can do this. So you are always watching something a little behind the reality that you can hear and feel. Secondly, it takes no power. Thirdly, it doesn't need the sensor to be powered. So the cameras last longer on a battery, the sensor doesn't heat up and become more noisy, and you get a real-time speed of light viewfinder. Nikon and Canon have perfected the mechanics, so reliability is also high. The supporting accessories are extensive, as is the global support network, including free use of lenses and camera maintenance at events.

    For pros that need a photograph these things are everything.

    Me, I'm not a pro. But I still enjoy the rapid response of any SLR, digital or otherwise. The good thing about the Nikon announcement is that some excellent DSLRs will likely find themselves onto the shelves of my local used camera shops
    Last edited by Tokyo Tokei; 25th August 2018 at 07:08.

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