Reply With QuoteVostok prices have seen minor rises but nothing to get worried about. The price of older Poljot 3133 chronographs have risen pretty sharply over the last few years though.
Anyone else think watch prices are a bit steep? watches that i brought or thought about buying a few years ago are going for double / treble what they were 5 years ago. Is this a bubble?
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Vostok prices have seen minor rises but nothing to get worried about. The price of older Poljot 3133 chronographs have risen pretty sharply over the last few years though.
Butter has increased by 60%, why shouldn't watches?
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Same with these.
Seiko 007 s and monster that I've sold for £50-£100 now are £150-£250 so their is defiantly a rise
I remember when a can of coke was 25p.
FTFYOriginally Posted by timc
Fortunately, none of us has to buy.
As long as borrowing money is easy and cheap then it will continue. And it is easy and cheap - credit cards and loans. I’m not saying everyone buys their watches with borrowed money but people buy cars, kitchens, home improvements, jewellery et al on the never never. That dries up and so will most premium luxury goods.
Not saying it will happen of course, who knows eh.
Have you got a P 3133 ?
Not seen one!
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
About 20 of them, some of which work!
Sold a Gen1 black Monster recently on eBay for £300, I only paid £80 for it from eBay about 4/5 years ago..
As a very recent entrant to this hobby, I can say that even in the past 30 months prices have significantly risen and that's across the board, not just Rolex or high end.
watches are luxury items. But agree prices (continue to) rise.
I do think pricing is out of control but we all have a choice and there are plenty of cheaper alternatives as well. There are those who might say watches by the premium brands are still good value but I disagree however, I still enjoy them but cannot realistically consider buying one new anymore. I know a lot more about the industry now and what I feel the products are worth, which is all very subjective of course. The second hand market is the best option and to just enjoy the hobby.
Parisian fish are insane
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
The Pound has lost over half its value against the Swiss Franc in 10 years.
The price of Swiss Cheese has also risen.
Luxury watches are luxury items...doesn't mean all watches are.
A large serving of tasty Vacherin that cost £2500 in 2008, would now require over £4000 to purchase, even without milk price inflation. It would also be quite rancid.
And here's the same thing from the swiss point of view (ie the trend line goes the other way) against a basket of major currencies. The Swiss decided not to print trillions of Francs when everyone else was running their printers flat out under the complex sounding excuse of 'quantitative easing' to cover up the complete panic. Since the UK went in for a particularly excessive amount of QE, the price of anything made in Switzerland has indeed, almost doubled over the last 10 years.The Pound has lost over half its value against the Swiss Franc in 10 years.
The price of Swiss Cheese has also risen.
[/url]
Last edited by LorneG; 8th July 2018 at 05:24.
It`s great, isn`t it?
All those watches i bought 10 - 15 years ago i can now sell and get all my money back!
The only people moaning about price rises are buyers, I suspect the sellers are loving it!
This seems to be the main factor, though I think it also caused the Swiss to realise that there are enough rich customers in emerging global markets, that they can charge these prices and get away with it. Even if CHF came back down, I think they’d probably keep prices the same in other territories and pocket the change, because they can. Demand has risen faster than supply, and that’s the way they like it. When they’ve over-produced they’ve bought them back rather than reducing prices because falling prices harms their marketing strategy.
It has however now reached the point where there’s a disconnect between what the product costs and what it realistically seems to be worth, which is sometimes apparent when you think about what car you could buy for the same price as a certain watch. Nonetheless, we tend to get used to prices quite quickly and start to accept the new market conditions. You can also see it happening with the price of a one bedroom flat in London, the price of art or even whisky.
Last edited by Itsguy; 8th July 2018 at 08:37.
Stop shopping at Waitrose. Start shopping in Aldi and lidl.
Astute observations. It quite clearly "happened" with property, although folk need a roof over their heads, jewellery less so.
Last edited by Passenger; 8th July 2018 at 11:29.
What is this aldi of which you speak?
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Generally considered a rival to BMW and MB, part of VAG...
Lol I paid 10 pence on a school trip to the Tower of London and felt stitched up:
Going back 20 or more years most watches I was interested in were about 1 - 3 months salary without bonuses or commission.
The same watches or equivalent now are about 3 - 9 months worth
Gray
You obviously know nothing about the concept of compulsive or addictive behaviour.
There’s plenty of vfm out there but not in the luxury division of any commodity where common sense doesn’t seem to apply. Rather the exclusivity of goods pandering to people’s ego and prices are driven by clever marketing. btw i can’t talk either having a few items priced insanely myself.
I think demand must have gone up too in recent years. In the world of military watches certain pieces have jumped up suddenly and then held at the new price (see Lemania Nuke Subs). That can only be attributed to demand because the watches haven't changed.
I think we're seeing the same in the new watches such as Rolex as, although I think there is a supply issue, there are definitely more people falling over each other to buy. While everyone is trying to get something, the sellers are going to make as much money from it as possible. It wasn't long ago you would get a discount on a Rolex from a dealer and now if you asked they would laugh at you.
I remember when admission to kew Gardens was 1p. They put it up to 10p overnight, and people complain about rolex price rises!Lol I paid 10 pence on a school trip to the Tower of London and felt stitched up
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Hate to be picky, but the Pound lost only 38% of its value against the Swiss in your graph; and most of that happened within the first 12 months of your 10-year period. There are many reasons for the sharp rise of watch prices during the past five years, but the exchange rate ain't one of them.The Pound has lost over half its value against the Swiss Franc in 10 years.
The price of Swiss Cheese has also risen.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I’m always amazed these days looking in shop windows at the prices.
I don’t really get how they can shift most of the watches. Obviously there’s crazy people like us on here who’ll have sold a load of a collection and moved up to a Tudor, omega or Rolex but how are they shifting these boring, naff looking Tag Heuer’s that are thousands of pounds and may as well be a Michael Korrs.
I’m not being snobby but it’s the stuff like that I don’t get where it’s some generic looking gold plated quartz Tag and it’s £3000!
Who is buying these watches? The WIS isn’t surely buying a £3k gold plated quartz Tag which makes it even more baffling to me how they sell them. That means your general non WIS is spending out that money which I find baffling as you’d imagine ‘normal’ people would just be like WTF!
If I get my Mrs in front of a window like that she just can’t believe the prices yet the WIS can somehow justify the prices of certain ‘grails’ with silly reasoning about movements, brand heritage and even investment.
You always get people saying inflation etc but I can remember looking at nice Omegas in windows and thinking if I really wanted one I could buy it, now they’re something I’d have to sell both my cars to buy!
Not wishing to spoil your rant but could you point out a few gold plated quartz Tags for £3000 please; I’ve never seen any!
Good point, most of the initial fall after the financial crisis seemed to happen in the first three of four years, but there was a further fall more recently after the Brexit vote. You're right though that there are other factors. I suspect that the ever growing global market for luxury watches, and the emerging global super-rich are a factor, and luxury watches are now targeted to a different kind of consumer. No doubt production is increasing, but not as fast as the increase in potential buyers with money to burn, allowing the whole category to be repositioned as a symbol of a quite different status. The top 1% of earners in global markets can afford a higher price than the top 1% of smaller traditional markets. This would account for the sinking feeling of no longer being able to afford watches the were previously aimed squarely at you. Nonetheless, the rise in CHF since the financial crisis has allowed the Swiss to discover, almost by accident, that people are willing to pay twice as much for watches as they thought. Unless the global fashion for expensive wrist-wear changes, that genie is probably not going back in the bottle.
Value of the CHF has dropped but prices are higher in CH airport duty free than UK high streets. Looked at the BBGMT last week which was a fair bit more expensive. I was so hoping!
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
I used to be able to buy nice Omega watches for some 2k guilders (900-1000 Euro), new.
Omega and many others repositioned, but besides heavier cases, less practical things like ceramic bezels and bigger cases I fail to see the difference that makes them worth the higher price.
Have they gone crazy? Well, apparently they still sell enough.
To me, with a rather big collection, it just isn't worth the higher price in 99% of the watches.
I'm afraid though that in the foreseable future more practical smartwatches and similar wearables will be a major threat to the Swiss watch industry. Sort of quartz-crisis revisited.
The quartz-crisis was manageable by going upmarket with mechanics, I am very doubtfull if the Swiss will be able to pull something similar off another time. They might need a new Hayek...
You’re only a ‘seller’ when selling, the more prices, particularly for pre moon Speedys, rise, the harder it is to actually do the deed for fear of selling yourself short!
I was offered £10k on the spot for my Ed White a while ago and it actually made me feel sick.
In all honesty it has killed what used to be a fun hobby.
But to whom? https://www.ft.com/content/aadf6c6c-...7-f6677d2e1ce8
That seems to just bring up a subscription link, I think this is the URL you need, though I’m not sure I get the point: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.f...7-f6677d2e1ce8
On smart watches, they are competing for wrist space, but not competing directly otherwise as they have completely different functions.
On Omega, I think it’s fair to say the products have completely changed, for instance using newly designed anti-magnetic movements where there used to be generic ETAs. Swatch Group decided the brand should compete again with Rolex, as they did in the 60s.
Last edited by Itsguy; 10th July 2018 at 07:34.
The article concerns buy-backs, suggesting that some watches aren’t selling at their price levels.
Yes, they over-produced, just when China was clamping down on corruption and watches as ‘gifts’. But the market has recovered now. If anything the buy-backs show that they are under no pressure to reduce prices. The expected fire sales never materialised as the luxury groups are too big. So long as they can fight off the grey dealers and buy back excess stock, they can control supply to support the high prices.
I see three parts to this conversation
At the upper end, there is a Geffen / Veblen effect. Watches do not need to justify their cost through intrinsic value - their value comes from their innate signalling of high cost and thus exclusivity. I agree that some of the graft crackdown in Asia (e.g. China, now Indonesia) is having an effect. This segment extends down to Rolex and Omega, which are desirable brands for the emerging middle classes across much of the globe.
The second is the increase in prices of everyday watches. I think here, we are perhaps making an issue where there is not one. Most mass consumption is of brands ~£100 and there is still a lot of supply at this level. I agree that Tag Heuer and other more forum-favoured brands such as Oris are expensive and overpriced at the upper end of the ‘everyday watch’ spectrum, but just look at the routine discounts that are available. They are overpriced to have a high margin at retail price, but few will sell at that level (or when they do, they will come with interest free credit which is a subsidy).
The third is the run-up in prices of vintage watches. Here I see a general increase in interest for watches, fanned by the numerous online sites which position them as a lifestyle accessory and make it much easier for someone to become aware of a brand and educate themselves. There is also a little of that old phrase ‘a rising tide lifts all boats’.
So different drivers for the three segments, ultimately supported by the availability of cheap money (for the consumer, or for the manufacturer in the form of historically cheap funding rates). I would like to say things will level out somewhat, but I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for it.
And in all of this, there are some fantastic watches for very reasonable money - such as those of our gracious host. You just have to look for them rather than buying the latest shiny trinket at the AD.
Granted $2000 not £3000 but the point is made I think.
https://www.tagheuer.com/en-us/watch...waz1120-bb0879
A friend’s son is a builder, decent tradesman with a growing business. He ‘can’t afford to leave home’ but has a growing collection of this type of watch, TAG, Rado etc. Thankfully his Dad just thinks he is mad spending ‘a couple of hundred quid’ on watches.
Not really, it’s £1500 not £3000!
You’re right Dave, sorry. It was from my memory being blown away at the prices somewhere and I actually nipped on to eBay to confirm before posting (so I got it right). I found a couple for over £3k and posted away.
I’ve since looked on goldsmiths site and the ones on eBay are inflated prices and more like £2200 on goldsmiths.
BUT what I did find was you can actually spend more than £3k on a quartz Tag if it’s for a ladies watch. There’s one with a few hundred in minuscule diamonds on it for £4850! Even if it had £1k in diamond value it’s still a crazy price. They’re icing them out with little diamonds and adding thousands on.
Must be the eBay ‘out of stock’ price inflation thing people seem to do.
I am amazed at the Omega Spectre Seamaster prices, 4.8k new and now some are asking 8k!. I think there was an almost new regular Seamaster on the forum for sale at 2700 ish, still under warranty. But one with a nato strap and a fancy box seems to command a bonkers premium. For essentially the same mass produced watch.
Posting Permissions
