Which cabrio?

[Huertecilla]

10 years now with my current daily. It is a 4x4 (real) diesel with ragtop. Going strong but I do the vast mayority of the 10K kms/year on tarmac where the high centre of gravity is not much fun at all.
I do need the offroad properties but have now a second 4x4 ánd the neighbour has volunteered I can borrow his so I coúld go for a cabrio which behaves like a proper tarmac car.

Been looking around and the shortlist is down to 2:
- MX5 NC Coupe (with hardtop)
- Alfa Spider Series 4
Both are relatively easily found rust free over here.

Both weigh about the same and are propelled by roughly the same hp.

Owned a Giulia GTJ 1300 and am aware that the Series 4 is technically the same platform which has both pros and cons about the reverse of the modern tech MX.

Though I do not take him along a lot I do like the rear ´bench´of the Spider for my dog.

Any thoughts?

[Enoch]

Any thoughts?

Buy British...

MGB
Spitfire
TR6
Stag
EType
Healey
TVR
Lotus
Marcos
Caterham

[Huertecilla]

Buy British...

Had a Spitfire and enjoyed it a lot though not néarly in the same league of handling as the Alfa.

The no-go of any Brit stuff is that there is hardly any over here, less still without rust, lastly silly priced and difficult to cater for.

The Spiders and MX5s are abundant and easily catered for over here.

[TKH]

R107 SL..Had many wonderful drive easy to get parts go up £££'s like a Submariner

[Huertecilla]

Merc, Porsche and BMW are off the list for being porkers (and too powerful; I´d rather have a 1300 Junior than a 6 cil. Boxer)). Ditto later Alfa Spider models. Never mind running costs.

[doctorj]

MG Midget would be my choice of small soft-top in that case. Put a K-series and a 5 speed box in it for trouble free motoring.

[Corporalsparrow]

Had a Spitfire and enjoyed it a lot though not néarly in the same league of handling as the Alfa.

The no-go of any Brit stuff is that there is hardly any over here, less still without rust, lastly silly priced and difficult to cater for.

The Spiders and MX5s are abundant and easily catered for over here.

Alfa S4 is vastly underrated. Good, enjoyable car, easy to live with compared to S1 and 2. And prices are due for an uplift.

[Andyg]

Every day transport for 2 - Mercedes SL.

Everyday transport for 4 - BMW, E-class, or Audi A5

Posing - Jaguar

Sporting - Boxster

Sporting Cheap - Mx5

Track day/ organ Donating - Caterham

Paper weight - TVR

[VDG]

Just cut off roof of that DAF of yours, job done.

[alfat33]

I think you’ll find the Series 4 less involving to drive than the GTJ. Same suspension components and geometry but the wonderful GTJ body is stiff (for its time) compared to the Spider.

[doctorj]

987 Boxster? An early one of those has to be cheaper than the Spider. And I know which one I'd rather have.

[Michael 38]

Saab cabriolets can be bought for peanuts not sure how good they are

[yumma]

As a former owner of 9 years, I'd say 100% go MX5, I'd seriously consider a late Mk2.5 NB 1800 VT-Sport if you can, seriously good fun, stupendously reliable, good mpg and a boot big enough to fit in a full set of golf clubs, folding trolley and gym bag or a weeks shop for a family. As others have said, the best gear change of almost anything on the road and the best handling this side of a Lotus Elise for peanuts money.

I have recently sold my beloved MX5 and 'upgraded' to a Z423iS, whilst the BMW is a lovely car, it's no MX5 and doesn't drive as nicely but is a good car and refined cruiser. More GT than Sports Car. MX5 all the way!

[Huertecilla]

Went to see both an Alfa Spider and an MX5.
Decided to dg a bit deeper in the MR2 option.
The Alfa is simply too ... well, dated and the MX5 is just ... well, not rugged enough; it is perfect; can´t stand it, sorry.

The MR2s over here have me baffled. So few produced over so few model years with so little development yet sóóóó many official variants. There is a plethora of TTE mods and other dealer fitted options.

[Omegamanic]

We still have an MR2, and I’d probably opt for the MX5 - the interior is a lot nicer in the Mazda.

[Huertecilla]

We still have an MR2, and I’d probably opt for the MX5 - the interior is a lot nicer in the Mazda.

200+ kilos is rather a lot though and furthermore the MR2 has the engine where is sits in the ideal spot.
Toyota put a stop to it because the MX5 took the market though. The MX5 ís simply that bit more practical.
The MX5 style does not rock my boat though whereas I do like the MR2. Still, I get the luggage space issue and I would not look at the MR2 if it were not for my life style ´hauling´ about only a cotton shoulder bag for overnighters/weekends. It suits my ´needs´ to perfection.
The MR2 is a bit more stark but I would probably take out the centre console as I rather have a bit more leg room than a radio/GPS. Same thing airco and power steering. I´d enjoy 50 lbs less more.

About to have a look at a pristine bog standard 2003 with 59k kms and hardtop.
Also talking with a seller of a drooling good looking 2005 JDM (and UK) V-edition with 80K. The RHD is a major issue though.
Discarded a 2000 with turbo kit. Veryvéry nicely done and the 200+ hp car is a sleeper but the 120k on the clock in combo with turboed early engine makes be back off at any price.

So, meets my use, there are several nice ones about, prices are sensible and way under MX5 so worth a look for now.

Thus, could you share some first hand owner experience?

[JonRA]

I wouldn't look beyond an MX5 for all the reasons already stated.

[Omegamanic]

200+ kilos is rather a lot though and furthermore the MR2 has the engine where is sits in the ideal spot.
Toyota put a stop to it because the MX5 took the market though. The MX5 ís simply that bit more practical.
The MX5 style does not rock my boat though whereas I do like the MR2. Still, I get the luggage space issue and I would not look at the MR2 if it were not for my life style ´hauling´ about only a cotton shoulder bag for overnighters/weekends. It suits my ´needs´ to perfection.
The MR2 is a bit more stark but I would probably take out the centre console as I rather have a bit more leg room than a radio/GPS. Same thing airco and power steering. I´d enjoy 50 lbs less more.

About to have a look at a pristine bog standard 2003 with 59k kms and hardtop.
Also talking with a seller of a drooling good looking 2005 JDM (and UK) V-edition with 80K. The RHD is a major issue though.
Discarded a 2000 with turbo kit. Veryvéry nicely done and the 200+ hp car is a sleeper but the 120k on the clock in combo with turboed early engine makes be back off at any price.

So, meets my use, there are several nice ones about, prices are sensible and way under MX5 so worth a look for now.

Thus, could you share some first hand owner experience?

The choice of tyre on the MR2 is critical to the handling. Wrong tyres and the car tramlines badly under braking. I find the car very nervous at speed in any case. At least more so than any other rear drive convertible I have owned or driven, much more so than the MX5 and 100 times more than my Boxster, which could be due to the low weight, but then it was a lot more nervous than even the tuned VX220T was . That said, the engine never felt badly underpowered and is surprisingly torquey with the low weight, pulling a higher gear than expected in most situations - so it's relaxing to drive in a more sedate manner.

Ours came without the centre console - but they sent it on in the post and the local Toyota dealer fitted it for free - so easily removable and looks fine without it.

The interior looks very cheap - hard plastic dash and door inners. Seats are comfy enough, but easily replaced too.

There is no space for anything other than the likes of a lunch/sandwich bag under the front bonnet. The car seems to suffer a lot less from rust than the MX5's seem to here, and ours lives outside. The paint has started to craze a little on one side though, which will be addressed later in the year.

The steering linkage can need cleaning and re-greasing to stop any issues.

Ours has been pretty reliable since bought new in 2001, but It's probably only got around 40k miles as used as a 4th/5th car in the family.

The hard top is a worthwhile extra here for winter ;)

[Franky Four Fingers]

If you should buy a ragtop don't forget your crash helmet.

[Huertecilla]

I already háve a rag top 3F. Been driving it for >10 years and had others before.

As to the popularity of the MX5 that has two sides; yes it is thát popular for a reason but also because of the mass popularity effect. This is exactly what is happening here; that the popularity is ´proof´ argument to buy.
See the VW Beetle for a perfect example; that never ever was the best car in any segment.

Good feedback Yumma, thanks.

Thanks Gary!!!

[GOAT]

I would think a Lotus Elise is what you’re looking for....the one with the removable roof panel
You’re quite handy with spanner’s, no?

[yumma]

As a long term MX5 owner (no longer sadly), I can defo appreciate the Mk3 MR2; or any MR2 for that matter. I drove the Mk3 MR2 1800 VVTi at Millbrook proving ground on the Hill Circuit, Handling circuit and high speed bowl - It was a phenomenal piece of kit. I bought the MX5 for the degree of practicality but the MR2 was every bit as good as a drivers car. If you like it go for it and enjoy.

[Spy]

Of the smaller, cheap convertibles, I would be looking at an MX5 or the last shape (Mk 3?) of the MR2

[adrianw]

McLaren 650S

[VDG]

McLaren 650S poster

FTFY :)

[DazBock]

Fun for pounds ratio can’t really get any better than in an MX5 though I’m biased




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[Huertecilla]

Not being biased (as there is no DAF variomatic cabrio ;-) ), going for the MR2.
The technical specs/driving properties rock my boat and the definitely seriously limiting drawbacks are not much of an issue for my use.

Back dring the seventies I was very much an enthusiast of the Fiat X1/9 and stayed a fan of it. Have collected several books on the car over the years. Even looked into the reality of buying one when I moved here. They are relatively plentyful over here with harldy rust issues and at attractive prices.
Today there are stíll as many for sale as MR2s!!
Even though there were some 160.000 X1/9s sold and about 27.000 MR2s, it still is a bit of a surprise that there are so many about.

Comparing the two however makes the X1/9 pale it every aspect. Unlike just about every other car, including the MX5, the modern variant of the hype is not any heavier when comparing same spec cars.

Anyway, test drove two more, one with a double exhaust which made a huge difference in the sporty experience but for the rest non whatsoever if a bit more tiresome. All in all no difference to me.
Still curious about the 6 speed (2nd gen) sequential box. It would have to come cheaper though as it is a whole lot of potential extra trouble.

An unexpected turn of events is the response of the gfs. The unanimous opinion is that my current wheels fit me to a t and that the MR2 is ever so wannabee even as they say they knów I can and will drive it sideways.
The underlying issue is that they think it a poor man´s Boxter because they are clueless about less being more, of lighter being a heavy weighing advantage.
The MR2 being light and simple with a ´long´ wheelbase makes it something it its own right. Even the modest output is just right for the car on the public road.

Hope to drop by another seller later in the day. Perhaps make an offer this time out.

[Huertecilla]

Nope did not pan out.
Looking at another one:
Not thát low mileage but religeously maintained at Toyota dealers.

I know the testers and punters did not like it but I réally love the auto clutch sequential box this one has but then I think a lot of variomatic/cvt too.
Double exhaust and white hard top.

White makes it look even more of a toy but is great to slap a huge anime decal over

[Huertecilla]

Decision made, now making it stick.
Living in Spain where bureaucracy has been developed in an art form that is not as simple as transfering the title. More so when as in this case it is between two Comunidades Autonomous. Also takes some time if you want to do it properly. Fingers crossed there are no glitches.

Meanwhile found that there is a very simple manifold replacement without pre-cats. Checking what that does for emissions.

Also checking the sports cams available. Although intended for a turbo conversion, the exhaust camshaft should work nicely in combination with the manifold.

Any, fingers crossed.

[Enoch]

Decision made, now making it stick.
Living in Spain where bureaucracy has been developed in an art form that is not as simple as transfering the title. More so when as in this case it is between two Comunidades Autonomous. Also takes some time if you want to do it properly. Fingers crossed there are no glitches.

Any, fingers crossed.

You should come to the UK, ownership transfer is easy and we drive on the correct side of the road🤡🤡🤡👍

[tobetobes]

I’ve had an S2000 by the way, it was also totally fabulous, but it did need a high amount of care.


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[Huertecilla]

I háve driven the Boxter and yes it outhandles the MR2. With the caveat if there is enough open road. The MR2 too is on the wide side but it is way lighter and that makes a world of difference. Power is not an issue, at least not ´lack´of it; the Porsche does have too much for my kind of fun on the twisty mountain roads.

A Honda 2K was on the wish list for mány years but the maintenance kept me from seriously contemplating one. Not only because it is sensitive to it but more because the nearest dealer is over an hour away in a city where I don´t go for shopping or other. That is a major nuisance. Same with Porsche btw but those are at the coast where I can usually combine a trip.

The practicallity of maintenance & repair is rather a biggie for me. It makes súch a difference in daily use/enjoyment if you can pop down the road at any time or need to plan a day trip.

The Toyota dealer is at 30 minutes in the town where we get the weekly shoppings ánd is a doddle for the local independant at 1 km. He maintains quite a few RAV4s and Corollas with the same engine.

Well and lastly the parts availability either new or from the breakers.
When Porsche was on the brink of bancruptcy because the 911 models were getting a bit long in the teeth they sought consultance from Toyota to reinvented itheir production methods, most specifically parts commonality. The Boxter was a fruit of the new Porsche generation and new methods. I has prove to be the saviour of the company.
The bottom line is that there are wáy more Toyotas with parts commonality on the road thus dealers and recyclists are well stocked.

Right back to daily reality; the 340 failed MoT as the difference on the rear brakes was too large. Not noticable on the road but the test machine shows no such mercy.
Also the tinted laminate is not homologated. First time they observed the latter. Has been in there for decades, since before the homogation of such existed!! Anyway, that is easily enough pealed away.
We had a ball drifting the thing tough coming back from the inspection over secondary roads. It ways roughly the same as the MR2, has only 80 bhp pulling on the rubber belts, stands taller to give it extra bottom clearance on the dirt and stíll it quick enough for most of the route. Helps that it is not wide and that the vertical glass gives you good view of the road surface. I find the latter súch a pita in just about all modern cars.
Time to get the drums off and have a look....

[Mj2k]

Reminds me of my MR2/MX5 days when I was younger, both still hold a soft spot for me. Thanks for the memories.


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[Huertecilla]

Reminds me of my MR2/MX5 days when I was younger, both still hold a soft spot for me. Thanks for the memories.

Oh come on, share some of the memories, best with a photo if possible. Pliespliesprittieplies ;-)

Just came back from some shopping at the Mercadona in Archidona. Went up secundary montain road with daylight, provincial 2-lane mountain road back in the dark.
Bags behind the seats and between the legs of my son.
I had great fun and he is such a responsible old fart: He said he got nauseous; if I would go less fast/deep into corners I would not have to brake so hard and if I would not accellerate that much/long, I would not go so deep/fast into corners. Mán, whó is the teenager here??!!
At least he moans to me and not to his mom :-)

Anyway, had the hard top in the garage so could hear the motor just that bit better. Quite like the sound as it is. Swapping the OEM muffler for something light may be a weighty issue but it is boúnd to be louder = more tiresome.

[Huertecilla]

The battery in the ralley DAF is a superlight LiFepo4.
Not a lot of Ah. so a bit iffy for the MR but hey it is an easy for free swap!

The LiFe is VÉRY much smaller there are some minor mods to the OEM clamp needed. I decided not to cut to size so I can revert to the lead-acid.

LiFe-ly junior started the engine with at least as much gusto as (t)aciturn big brother.
No fault messages, sofar so good.
Proof of the pudding is in the daily use though. Nights are currently some 5 C. below zero.

Standard lead-acid battery 12.6 kg.
LiFePo4 from de rally car 0.8 kg.
Weight loss 11.6 kg.

That makes;
2 kg. manifold,
15 kg. foam can instead of spare&jack
11.6 kg. battery,
Say 28.5 kg. total.
Níce!!

The combination of a bit more tractable bottom/midrange and 28.5 kilo weight loss is a minor thing ofcourse but noticeable.

[BillN]

you could also go on a diet!!

[Enoch]

you could also go on a diet!!

I have an old ZXR 750 in my garage that I’ve been storing for a mate for many years.... almost every fastener is titanium, including wheel spindles etc. He spent a fortune making this bike lighter, when he could have easily lost a stone in weight..

[Huertecilla]

you could also go on a diet!!

I agree that many a one could. Cheap too.
That one would have to be morbidly obese though to loose the 50 kilos I intend the car to shed.

Come Januar, after the festivities, I could probably shed 5 kilos but that is about it.

Btw, with nice weather the c-company knows to wear minimal, ligtweight ´clothing´ only...

[IAmATeaf]

Is the car an auto?

[Huertecilla]

Is the car an auto?

You still shift yourself. It is sequential both up and down, it only operates the clutch automatically.

[oldoakknives]

You still shift yourself. It is sequential both up and down, it only operates the clutch automatically.

So it's an auto, which can be shifted manually, or left in auto to shift itself?

[Huertecilla]

So it's an auto, which can be shifted manually, or left in auto to shift itself?

It is an SMT; a sequential manual gearbox. It can ónly be shifted by driver input.

[oldoakknives]

It is an SMT; a sequential manual gearbox. It can ónly be shifted by driver input.

Not the Mazda Powershift model then? Which gearbox is it?

[Skyman]

Is the car an auto?

Oh dear.

[Huertecilla]

Oh dear.

Stíll here???

Oh dear indeed

[IAmATeaf]

It’s not a true SMT though is it?

It’s just a normal auto box, with some electronics to mimic SMT behaviour.

[Huertecilla]

It’s not a true SMT though is it?

It’s just a normal auto box, with some electronics to mimic SMT behaviour.

´Normal auto box´ oh dear. I am not even curious to what you think ís a normal auto box nowadays. Same thing whether you know what a sequential box is.
Ah well, tant pis ; where there is no will, there is no way.
If you do have the will there is info under your fingers.

[uktotty]

As a MK3 MR2 owner for the last 14 years, it has always been called SMT, if you want to argue that, then perhaps Toyota is the place to ask, as they have always called their semi auto thing SMT.

It’s not a true SMT though is it?

It’s just a normal auto box, with some electronics to mimic SMT behaviour.

[Matt8500]

Dear god man. Do you have any concept of how you come across

[RobDad]

Talking about women like it’s the 70’s whilst whizzing around in a car from an 80’s video game. I’m really not sure if that’s a good or a bad thing tbh


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