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Thread: 7x50 Binocular advice - new or old

  1. #1
    Journeyman el marinero's Avatar
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    7x50 Binocular advice - new or old

    Recently my Minox 7x50s that I use at work went out of focus and are just about unusable. I think that they took a tumble at some stage and some lenses are out of alignment.
    I thought about getting them serviced but the cost is going to be pretty high, especially in proportion to what I paid for the binoculars.



    For a replacement pair, do I get another pair of Minox, they were good, no complaints and lasted 3-4 years. Or try something else new or get some vintage binoculars? The advantage of some old binos is that some of my colleagues would be more inclined to keep their dirty hands off!

    Requirements:
    - 7x50s. This is non-negotiable, the accepted standard for use at sea.
    - Porro-prism preferred. Not having to focus saves time, especially at night.
    - Good all-round performance for night and day.
    - Do not want any of those gimmicky integrated compasses.
    - Price wise, I would go up to about 350 quid but would prefer to spend less.

    I have seen a lot of Carl Zeiss Jena Binoctems for sale on the flea bay, are they any good?

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    Steiner military marine, great optics and I really like the shape. I don’t own a pair myself but would if I needed a pair of 7x50
    I have an old pair of German army hensold (zeiss) 8x30 that are also great.

  3. #3
    Grand Master thieuster's Avatar
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    Search for old Russian 7x50’s. Cost next to nothing (30 euros or so). Compare the quality with modern day high end specimen. You’ll be amazed!

  4. #4

  5. #5
    Personally I would avoid the Steiner's. I have a pair where the collimation went awry and after sending them back to Steiner was informed that they were not designed to be repairable.

    If you want a pair that will potentially last a lifetime, or that will at least retain a significant proportion of their value, then invest in one of the big three - Swarovski, Zeiss or Leica. Their after-sales service is highly regarded for a reason, particularly so with Swarovski. Secondhand there are certainly good deals, if not exactly bargains, to be had.

    Technology, particularly when it comes to optical coatings, has also moved on significantly. I have had plenty of pairs of binoculars from the 70's, 80's and 90's that still give a great visual image during regular daylight hours, but modern optical coatings tend to come into their own when light levels are low, so dawn and dusk. This may or may not be important to the OP, but in some situations it can make all the difference.

    With optics I have found that it really is a case of "buy once, cry once".

  6. #6
    Grand Master Carlton-Browne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie_gunn View Post

    With optics I have found that it really is a case of "buy once, cry once".
    I've been torturing myself over this subject for the last month and have finally reconciled myself to paying a bit more than I originally intended. Mercifully I've had the help and advice of another member from here (you know who you are!) and I'm pretty confident that I've made the right decision. Zeiss.
    In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlton-Browne View Post
    I've been torturing myself over this subject for the last month and have finally reconciled myself to paying a bit more than I originally intended. Mercifully I've had the help and advice of another member from here (you know who you are!) and I'm pretty confident that I've made the right decision. Zeiss.
    I doubt you will go far wrong with any of the big three.

    Any difference between them may well come down to ergonomics and personal taste, so it is worth going somewhere where you can try out all three brands if possible.

    I have binos from both Swarovski and Leica, and find them pretty much comparable so far as light gathering. Personally I prefer the colour of the image in the Leicas but the ergonomics of the Swaros, so in general I tend to grab the latter.

    I haven’t tried a modern pair of Zeiss binos for a while, though I have plenty of their other optics. There are many who swear by them and I doubt you will regret your choice.

  8. #8
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Whatever you decide to buy, very few observers need 7x50 (exit pupil 50/7 = 7.1mm) because very few of us have eyes with 7mm pupils to take advantage of the bino's potential brightness … and 7x50 would likely be heavier than e.g. 7x35 or 8x40. Personally I'd steer clear of Minox because there are too many 'fake Minox' around … beware of any Minox with ruby coloured coatings.

    dunk
    Last edited by sundial; 10th July 2018 at 19:04.
    "Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"

  9. #9

    7x50 Binocular advice - new or old

    Whilst generally I agree with that, personally I would flip the decision around.

    First prioritise what you want to use your binoculars for, then determine the specification.

    Whilst 8x30’s might be suitable for general purpose use, if you need greater light gathering at dawn or dusk - or at night - then the penalty of the heavier weight of glass in a 7x50 or 8x56 might well be a price worth paying.

    For example, I have a pair of 8x20 Leicas that I can pop in a shirt pocket and take to watch rugby. But they would be useless for when I am spotting wildlife to photograph at dawn or dusk, when I will take a pair of 8.5x42’s. I don’t bother with 8x56’s as if it’s dark enough to need those then it’s unlikely I can take a photo anyway.

    In general the choice of optics requires a compromise.
    Last edited by willie_gunn; 10th July 2018 at 19:02.

  10. #10
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie_gunn View Post
    Whilst generally I agree with that, personally I would flip the decision around.

    First prioritise what you want to use your binoculars for, then determine the specification.

    Whilst 8x30’s might be suitable for general purpose use, if you need greater light gathering at dawn or dusk - or at night - then the penalty of the heavier weight of glass in a 7x50 or 8x56 might well be a price worth paying.

    For example, I have a pair of 8x20 Leicas that I can pop in a shirt pocket and take to watch rugby. But they would be useless for when I am spotting wildlife to photograph at dawn or dusk, when I will take a pair of 8.5x42’s. I don’t bother with 8x56’s as if it’s dark enough to need those then it’s unlikely I can take a photo anyway.

    In general the choice of optics requires a compromise.
    8x56 … exit pupil 7.0mm
    7x50 … exit pupil 7.1mm … thus both equally bright but the 7x50 will likely have a wider field of view

    Really is no point in using an 8x56 or 7x50 unless an observer is under 30 years of age. Everyone's eye pupils 'shrink' with age.

    If anyone thinks they can make full use of binos with 7mm exit pupils they should have their eye pupils measured .. and chances are if over 30 years of age their pupils will be 5mm or 6mm diameter or less

    If the OP needs a porro binocular for everyday use at sea he should consider investing in a professional Swarovski Habicht

    https://uk.swarovskioptik.com/birdin...SAAEgKzP_D_BwE

    …they're bullet proof and far superior to e.g. a s/h Zeiss Jena porro.

    Many East German Zeiss binos had very average to poor, manufacturing QA

    dunk
    "Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"

  11. #11

    7x50 Binocular advice - new or old

    We might have to agree to differ, but if I was going for a Habicht I would suggest the rubber armoured would be a better choice for marine use. If they are hanging from a hook or resting on the chart table then weight is less of an issue, so I would personally think about the Habicht 8x56.

    Then again, I use the EL’s as ergonomically I find them far superior. My 8.5x42’s have had more than 10 years constant and heavy (ab)use, and my Trinovid 8x40’s more than that.

    Sadly my 40’s are well behind me, but I can still notice the difference between 7x40 and 8x40.

    It is far from a simple equation, as the coatings can have a significant effect with regards to how much light is effectively transmitted through to the eye.

    YMMV, but for my personal use I am happy that as much light is gathered and transmitted as possible, even if my poor old eyes can’t use it ;-)
    Last edited by willie_gunn; 10th July 2018 at 20:04.

  12. #12
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    This Sky and Telescope article explains 'exit pupil' and why it's not such a good idea to use / buy e.g. 7x50 (7.1mm exit pupil), 10x70, or 8x56 binoculars (both have 7mm exit pupil) … if you have 5mm eye pupils.

    https://www.skyandtelescope.com/astr...in-binoculars/

    It's a physical impossibility for a 'middle aged' human eye's 5mm exit pupil to take advantage of the bino's 7mm exit pupil. An eye's 5mm 'entrance pupil' (aperture) cannot see more than 5mm worth of the bino's 'exit pupil' … it's like placing a steel washer with a 5mm 'hole' in front of a steel washer with an 7mm diameter 'hole' … the resultant double washer has only a 5mm hole … and the 2mm additional diameter of the 7mm washer is 'blacked out' / 'covered over'/ 'wasted'. The brightness of a binocular is only as good as the weakest link … and the weakest link is the human eye's max. entrance pupil diameter. If anyone thinks they can see a brighter image through their 5mm eye pupils when using a 7mm exit pupil bino it's likely due to e.g. a specific 7x50 bino having more efficient lens/prism coatings than a poorer quality 7x35 instrument. It's a well known fact that relatively 'slow aperture' (exit pupil) Canon image stabilised binos have super efficient coatings thus their actual image brightness appears much better than faster aperture (exit pupil) competitors' instruments.

    The eye's pupil dilation and resultant max entrance pupil diameter, should not be confused with the eye's 'dark adaption' … 'dark adaption' is a chemical process performed by the retina which takes c. 15 to 30 minutes to complete.


    dunk
    Last edited by sundial; 14th July 2018 at 12:47.
    "Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"

  13. #13
    I’ve used bins extensively on a boat and think the canon IS suggestion is well worth investigating.

  14. #14
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catch21 View Post
    I’ve used bins extensively on a boat and think the canon IS suggestion is well worth investigating.
    The downside of Canon IS binos is that they require batteries … and batteries only permit a few hours IS observing. The more expensive lithium AA batteries last longer. However, IS is not necessary/essential when using e.g. the Canon 10x42 IS binocular - but it does help - but there are more cost effective 10x42 non-IS binoculars available. Image stabilisation really is advantageous when hand-holding e.g. the Canon 18x50 and 15x50 IS instruments; observing with same for the first time is a revelation. I use Canon IS 10x42 and IS 15x50 for astro observing and demonstrate them (and other binoculars) at public star parties. Because Canon IS binos 'eat' batteries, I stock up with lithium AA cells whenever on special offer in Sainsbury.

    dunk
    Last edited by sundial; 15th July 2018 at 10:21.
    "Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    The downside of Canon IS binos is that they require batteries … and batteries only permit a few hours IS observing. The more expensive lithium AA batteries last longer. However, IS is not necessary/essential when using e.g. the Canon 10x42 IS binocular - but it does help - but there are more cost effective 10x42 non-IS binoculars available. Image stabilisation really is advantageous when hand-holding e.g. the Canon 18x50 and 15x50 IS instruments; observing with same for the first time is a revelation. I use Canon IS 10x42 and IS 15x50 for astro observing and demonstrate them (and other binoculars) at public star parties. Because Canon IS binos 'eat' batteries, I stock up with lithium AA cells whenever on special offer in Sainsbury.

    dunk
    That’s interesting, thank you.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by el marinero View Post
    Recently my Minox 7x50s that I use at work went out of focus and are just about unusable. I think that they took a tumble at some stage and some lenses are out of alignment.
    I thought about getting them serviced but the cost is going to be pretty high, especially in proportion to what I paid for the binoculars.



    For a replacement pair, do I get another pair of Minox, they were good, no complaints and lasted 3-4 years. Or try something else new or get some vintage binoculars? The advantage of some old binos is that some of my colleagues would be more inclined to keep their dirty hands off!

    Requirements:
    - 7x50s. This is non-negotiable, the accepted standard for use at sea.
    - Porro-prism preferred. Not having to focus saves time, especially at night.
    - Good all-round performance for night and day.
    - Do not want any of those gimmicky integrated compasses.
    - Price wise, I would go up to about 350 quid but would prefer to spend less.

    I have seen a lot of Carl Zeiss Jena Binoctems for sale on the flea bay, are they any good?

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    I have a couple of pairs of Zeiss binoculars and bought an old pair of cheap bins, on eBay, for my daughters to use. These were chosen on the basis that they looked to be in decent condition and were 7x50, so easy enough for a child to hold steady. They were branded Mirador, described as 'Marine' and cost roughly £12. Now, 15 years on, they are my most used. Optical quality and clarity is actually very good, so buying an older, obscure brand can sometimes pay off.

  17. #17
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    The downside of Canon IS binos is that they require batteries … and batteries only permit a few hours IS observing.
    dunk
    It’s worth noting for those who haven’t used Canon IS binoculars before that they still function as normal non IS binoculars when the battery dies.

    For most casual users, the battery will still last months or years. My own pair of Csnon IS binoculars have done the Galápagos Islands twice. Sadly, without me!

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