What's it about? What exactly are they up to?
What's it about? What exactly are they up to?
If you really wanted to find out you wouldn’t ask the question on a watch forum!
Shhhh
It’s a secret....
It’s different things to different people and there are very few secrets in relation to Freemasonry that can’t be found within a few seconds searching on the interweb. I’m a ‘happy clapper’ as my son calls them and can only speak as I find. I’ve not found anyone ‘on the square’ that doesn’t seem to be in it for genuine reasons. There are undoubtedly some bad Freemasons out there and as with all sections of society no doubt a few who joined in the misguided belief it would further their careers etc.
I’m sure there have been cases of favouritism but this is no different to giving a leg-up to a fellow member of your golf club, someone recommended by a good friend, old school mate, blah blah blah.
If anyone is interested in learning more then you could contact your local masonic centre, which I’d be happy to help you find. If you want to take the piss and think we’re all devil worshippers then I’m good with that to, so mote it be.
https://www.ugle.org.uk
Try this for starters
What are the genuine reasons, is it just a social thing?Originally Posted by hops
Mostly it is. Essentially think of it as a Brotherhood that does a lot of charity fundraising, has some ceremonies that are steeped in tradition and lore, and has social meetings (including ones to bring friends and family (especially the wife) to.
There is a lot of care for members, and a temendous support network if ever needed.
The ceremonies are actually rather fun, although they are taken seriously.
Most Lodges have rules, including no discussion of business or politics.
There is nothing remotely sinister about it.
So clever my foot fell off.
It is primarily the social side for me but there is a great deal of pride in completing the ceremonies as word perfectly as possible but preserving the fun element. The basic story encompasses the building of King Solomon’s temple and other orders expand on different aspects of that. However it is most definitely NOT a religion or a replacement for it. It teaches morals and encourages you to be an individual who considers you to be the best person you can be. I enjoy meeting a great bunch of mates on a number of occasions throughout the year, talking nonsense and having the odd creme de menthe frappé.
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I was invited but in this country you have to be deist.
I offered to take the oath on Darwin’s “on the origin of species” or on Hawking’s “A brief history of time”.
Both were rejected
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Similar story here. I’m not interested in joining an organisation that is based on non-evidence based reasoning.I was invited but in this country you have to be deist.
I offered to take the oath on Darwin’s “on the origin of species” or on Hawking’s “A brief history of time”.
Both were rejected
But you were a ‘bro’...
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
My own impression isn’t that it has changed, but that it depends a lot on the individuals in the lodge.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Here’s why I toy with the idea of trying to join:
I believe one of the biggest problems we have is the absence of community spirit and a sense of belonging.
I think it’s behind a great deal of social breakdown as well as the depression that comes with feelings of displacement and lack of purpose.
We don’t tend to know much about our neighbours or the local greengrocer. Many of us only open our front doors to get into our cars, often work in other towns where people we never meet get rich from our toil, and then we don’t spend our money in our own community as more shopping is done online.
I’m not saying the Freemasons are the answer to everything,of course. But I do think that clubs and societies are a step towards the benefits of old-fashioned community living that’s becoming so rare.
I agree with you, but you can do so much yourself to further community spirit. When we built our house in the country I called to all the other houses on the road to say Hi.
We're not friends with them but we're not strangers.
And within my own group of friends, we get together a lot. We had friends here earlier, we're just back from another friends house and we've another friend calling here later with a birthday gift for our wee girl.
When everyone makes an effort, everyone feels included imo
I suppose similarly to most things in life you get out of it what you're prepared to put back in.
In a nutshell my journey in Freemasonary has been very pleasurable and i have met many and various people on that journey the myths,stories still abound and i am still after 36 yrs in the Craft awaiting my first Goat or blood sacrifice.Cost is always mentioned but what one gives to charity is personal and hopefully within ones means Religion and politics are no no’s and are left outside our meetings and of course like all “ clubs” members do deal with each other in business bit like the SF on here😉
Anybody that has an interest can approach their local Provence or go to the United Grand Lodge of England website and no it is not for everybody but we are a lot more open these days.
Those are good reasons for finding out more about joining. Have you tried contacting your Provincial Grand Lodge (www.pglwilts.org.uk) to find out more?
It's not very secretive these days and you certainly don't need to be invited.
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The secrecy of freemasons adds to the skepticism and fuels some of the hopefully outrageous rituals that you hear down the pub. Maybe a bit more transparency would attract more members. Ive been intrigued by it as a friends dad is a member and to this day he's refused to say anything about what goes on.
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Things are slowly changed for the better, regarding the secrecy element the only things in general that aren’t openly discussed are the ceremonies, as this would detract from the experience of the candidate, or the methods by which we are known to each other. As I alluded to earlier however most of this is on the web if you really must know. I’m really disappointed to hear the lack of support a couple brothers had at their times of need. That’s not been my experience and hopefully the exception, not the rule.
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I was the recipient of a secret handshake once, presumably the guy was checking if I was "in"
I wasn't but was able to tell him I knew the score about the handshakes. He didn't seem to mind. As you say, most of this info is online if you want it.
Up until WW2 the Freemasons were far more high profile. After the Second World War it turned in on itself and became very insular - which is self defeating as new members have to ask to join not be invited to join contrary to urban myth!
Starting in the 1990's the current Grand Master, HRH The Duke of Kent, has worked to make Freemasonry more outward looking - as well as actively contesting some of the more outlandish rumours circulated about the Craft in the media.
Today many Masonic Centres hold Open Days, operate websites and the United Grand Lodge of England offers tours of the site - which you may recognise in many TV dramas which have been shot in its Art Deco interior.
Similarly the secret ritual you mention is quite readily available today on t'interweb if you want to read any of it; prior to that it has long been available in print since the publication of Darkness Visible back in the 1950's.
If you do join I'd advise against reading the ritual first as it would diminish your enjoyment of the experience. I was advised the same and was glad I didn't.
Hopefully some help?
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Last edited by adg31; 10th July 2018 at 16:46.
When I worked in the CPS, a DI I was working on a case with, asked if I wanted to join something called the "Big Buffaloes."
I politely declined, as belonging to one ludicrous organisation at a time was my limit.
He might have been referring to The Ancient Order Of Water Buffaloes.
They used to exist, no idea if they still do.
ETA according to Wikipedia they still do, but doesn’t look like the organisation is in great shape:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Antediluvian_Order_of_Buffaloes
Last edited by TheFlyingBanana; 11th July 2018 at 06:44.
Went to a historic vehicle show today and I was surprised to see a Freemasons stand, I know a few people who are in, but I have never discussed it with them. I’m not sure what I think about it really.
Have been issues with recruitment and retention for years now and I think a big part of this stems from a reluctance to bring the craft into the 21st century in some respects. As with all clubs or forums etc. the members have a huge part to play in how successful it is and how appealing it appears to those looking to join. We are quite lucky in that we have a broad spread of ages and backgrounds making it a pleasure to meet and ‘chew the cud’ but I know some lodges do struggle and eventually have to hand their warrants back in. Grand Lodge is making a concerted effort to make things more open and stem the flow of younger members leaving so soon after joining and to increase the awareness on social media platforms as well as fairs and the like as you discovered today.
My old man was a mason.
My mother used to take great delight in saying "Dib dib dib, dob dob dob!" when he left for his monthly lodge meeting.
Reading this thread with interest.
It seems like the Masons are a bit like the Rotary Club/Lions International, but with a few historical rituals thrown in?
From an outsiders perspective, it does appear to be at risk of being perceived as rather archaic and irrelevant in modern terms. Probably not helped by the historic levels of 'secrecy' surrounding the whole thing.
My father in law was a Freemason for many years, yet there was absolutely no assistance given, emotionally, financially or otherwise, when he had a massive heart attack, which caused his business to fail and his wife/young daughters were left homeless. I am sure this varies between individual personalities within the different Lodges, but I was under the impression it was one of the fundamental underlying principles of the whole organisation.
I have just applied to join my local lodge after some discussions with a chap I know from my local. He's in his twenties, and so was my co-signatory, so I they they have succeeded in attracting some young blood. Certainly, the impression I get (before I've even been there) is of a quite vibrant organisaition, keen to expand and do the charitable work they seek to. Doesn't look like it will cost too much, and the meals sound great value! And for me it's a chance to do some good for the community.
Interesting to see that private tuition fees for members are specifically mentioned, as both of my father-in-laws daughters (my wife and sister-in-law) had to leave their private schools due to the inability to pay the fees when his business failed.
I've been interested in it for a while, my school has a lodge and I have been asked to join a couple of times.
Having been a member of a gentleman's club and left because it was so archaic, out of touch and elitist I assumed freemasonry would be similar.
Are there many members under 35? Is it basically a golf club for people who don't play golf?
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It really depends on the Lodge you join, there are some University Lodges which will generally have a younger profile.
Overall there is currently an ongoing drive to attract younger members into Freemasonry to balance out what had become an older demographic. In Leicestershire there is a Rugby team and a new Cricket team being set up by some of the younger members which is becoming very active in the Province.
What I like is that you get to meet some great people from a wide range of backgrounds on an equal, friendly footing.
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It's not archaic, nor elitist. We have quite a few members 30-40 yrs old. It's whatever you want it to be.. There is absolutely no snobbery as everyone is equal and that's what's good about it. We recently had an unemployed member going through the chair and if anyone was on his down and outs it was him, but he was given the highest respect.
Loads of social events, meeting people, and making friends. Freemasonry is the next largest fundgiving organisation next to the lottery and something to be proud to be part of.
Thank you for the info, the charitable side really appeals!
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Are there any published figures for that or is it just hearsay Rod?
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
London Air Ambilance is just of the examples.
Fas est ab hoste doceri
Yes, there is plenty of evidence but it can be somewhat murky given the various routes / organisations through which the money is raised and distributed. However, if you look online there is plenty to review!
Here are the UGLE details: www.ugle.org.uk/giving
Here is a fact check from Channel 4: http://www.channel4.com/news/factche...laims-stack-up
Here is the relevant section from the Charities Commission where reports in the Documents tab list who actually received what in 2016 - 2017: http://beta.charitycommission.gov.uk...281942&subid=0
There are also many donations made from individual Lodges to local charities. Hopefully this is some help?
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Last edited by adg31; 11th July 2018 at 19:24.
I'm still not comfortable with it's reputation as a secret society. Worth reading is The Brotherhood by Stephen Knight. Although it's getting a bit dated, at the time he wrote it, for example, most rank and file police officers were not members, by the time they rose the ranks to senior positions, most were.
Every now and then someone shakes my hand and I feel the knuckle inside. I never know whether they have disformed digits or they are on the square.
Masons may also be storing up trouble with their entry requirements in the 21st century "Any man over the age of 21 may join regardless of ethnic group, political views, economic standing or religion although he is expected to have a faith".
In the absence of a belief in a supreme being, then … I'm out.
Last edited by broxie; 11th July 2018 at 19:55.
Interesting reading from the C4 fact check -
The advert, by the United Grand Lodge of England, started by claiming they value service to the community, saying: “Last year we raised over £33 million for good causes.”
FactCheck has found that nearly half of the money (£15.8m) was spent on charitable causes that support their own members. That leaves slightly over £17m given to non-masonic charitable causes.
Almost all of the cash for masons was distributed via the Masonic Charitable Foundation (MCF).
This includes paying private school fees for the children of masons, when life-changing circumstances prevent them from meeting the costs themselves. They also pay for “specialist tuition, and a host of extracurricular activities”.
If Freemasons think that paying private school fees is essential charity work then i'm afraid you have a completely different values system to me and is not certainly something I would think the majority of the public would agree with. The fact that over half the money raised for 'charity' goes to support their own completely reinforces some of the criticism raised previously in this thread.
Last edited by vulcangascompany; 11th July 2018 at 23:26.
I echo the above sentiments, all of the members of my lodge are middle or working class. There are none that have kids at private school.
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I am fortunate to live in one of the oldest democracies in the World; however much of it is conducted in secret away from public view and surrounded by arcane ritual.
Does this make it any less relevant?
I agree that Freemasonry and its ritual is not for everyone - but I am more than happy to talk about the significance of its customs and rituals when asked as they can seem rather arcane (putting it mildly) to non-Masons.
In many cases this has seen people say 'I never realised that - it actually makes sense when you put it like that.'
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Last edited by adg31; 12th July 2018 at 12:29.
Much of the UK's arcane ritual is publicly broadcast, whether it be the state opening of parliament, the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace or whatever. Yes, these are out of touch with modern times but they're not shrouded in secrecy and because of this are generally considered traditional or quaint and even a draw for tourists. Neither is much of our democracy conducted in secret, some of it is conducted behind closed doors and where national security is of concern it should be. However, with the freedom of information act the majority of what goes on is easily discoverable and anything significant or of concern is duly reported by the media.
It's the secrecy that does Freemasonry a disservice.
I never realised that the Privy Council meetings - or those of the Civil Service - were televised or open to the public?
Freedom of Information requests will get you documentary details - though these may be often redacted.
In contrast you have been able to read the full book of Masonic Ritual since it was published by Walton Hannah in 1952 (Darkness Visible).
Similarly a number of Provinces are now restarting public parades in full regalia for important events in many cases for the first time since WWII.
What other secrets are you referring to that are outside of the public realm - or are you suggesting that every Lodge meeting be televised - presumably along with that of every other private meeting of bowls clubs, unions, Women's Institute and the like to let everyone see what they are doing?
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Last edited by adg31; 12th July 2018 at 13:17.
They aren't, which was why I said much of the Uk's arcane ritual is publicly broadcast instead of all of it. A public Masonic parade is far removed from the ceremonies that go on beyond the outer guard, perhaps if one or two of the United Grand Lodge of Englands meetings were televised it would give the general public a more informed view of what goes on behind closed doors?
The ritual dominates proceedings and is already in the public realm.
The recent Sky documentary took viewers into the Lodge room in a way that few other organisations can match.
However, it remains a private meeting rather than a public one. My guess is that very few private organisations, such as golf clubs, bowls clubs, allotment committees, school governors, businesses or unions would welcome the general public into their meetings - let alone go as far as UGLE did with Sky.
I'm not sure exactly it is that are you wanting to see?
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Last edited by adg31; 12th July 2018 at 13:44.
I joined my local BSAC dive club a few years ago.
We're a mixed bunch, some early 20s, more in the their 60s, but we're bucking the trend by getting younger as a club!
It can get a bit 'political' sometimes, with fallings outs and people wanting or not wanting things done certain ways, but mostly we get along and have a good time.
We do dress in bizarre costumes and have our rituals, such as the 'buddy check'.
My point is that most clubs are quite similar and what the Freemasons here are saying is that they're pretty much the same as any other.
I've no personal experience, but it doesn't sound that sinister.
That said, there was someone senior in the Masons interviewed not so long ago on the radio, bemoaning the fact that Freemasons are perceived by many as a 'secret society'.
When challenged about that he said he couldn't reveal anything about their ceremonies because they were 'secret'!
He didn't really do his cause too many favours there, I thought!
M
My Dad is a member and he loves it. For him it seems to be a social club with hierarchy , some pageantry and some obtuse rules all of which he likes but then he was in the army and so I think a little predisposed for that sort of thing.
I have been to a couple of events, they are alright but it didn’t resonate for me.
It sounds like commoners play acting as royals.
We do love the class system, pomp and circumstance in this country, no matter how you get your fill of it.
Do you believe in a supreme being?
Below from The Guardian … I can’t believe this organisation can recruit new members in 2024 …
Is Freemasonry a religion?
No, it is a secular movement, although new members are expected to acknowledge a belief in a God-like superior being, often called the Grand or Great Architect of the Universe. Anyone believing in a single deity may be admitted. Rudyard Kipling, who was a member of a masonic lodge in Lahore, wrote a number of poems about his fellow masons who were Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs and Jews. In theory, all discussion of religion and politics is prohibited within lodges.
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