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Thread: Tour de France 2018

  1. #1
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    Tour de France 2018

    Starts today and there's no thread already?

    I know the area quite well from summer holidays and will have ridden everything from Noirmoutier to Talmont myself. I'll have to check Strava after the stage today.

    One for the sprinters today. Excitement for me will come from saying "Ooh look, I've been there" repetitively for the first half of the stage.

    Always worth reading The Inner Ring's preview: http://inrng.com/2018/07/tour-de-fra...nay-le-compte/

  2. #2
    Master Matt London's Avatar
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    I love these three weeks. It’s the first time I have been on holiday during the race. Hopefully i will get Eurosport in my Crete Hotel. I would prefer the ITV4 highlights show though!

    The start of the ITV4 coverage had an interesting précis of the Froome/Salbutamol case. I guess it will be included in tonight’s highlights show.

  3. #3
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    Looking forward to it. The ITV4 team are excellent

    Shame that Velogames has run into some legal action & has been suspended for the Tour. I had an unbeatable Fantasy team lined up for it.

  4. #4
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    Just pick the mountain stage where some idiot pushes Froome off his bike.

  5. #5
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    Starts today and there's no thread already?

    ...
    I was wondering the same thing. It's a good job I looked before posting...Live Tracker.

  6. #6
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    Froome crashes and people cheer, how sporting. Would they if he was French?

  7. #7
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Tour de France 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by craggie View Post
    Froome crashes and people cheer, how sporting. Would they if he was French?
    I can partially answer that question and say yes, they would.
    And the reason is, we’ve had one. He wasn’t anywhere near as successful as Froome, but his small frame meant he was rather good at climbing. He was immensely popular. His name is Richard Virenque.
    He was caught in the Festina scandal. Every interview he made at the time (late 90s) proved conclusively he didn’t have the brains to even spell EPO.
    Yet he became a figure of constant mockery, and that continued when he restarted his career.
    And yet all that was before the Armstrong scandal.
    Now the distrust is greater, and results always suspect.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  8. #8
    Grand Master thieuster's Avatar
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    In Germany until Tuesday. So I can’t enjoy the Flemish comments until Wednesday. Looking forward to it!

  9. #9
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    I can partially answer that question and say yes, they would.
    And the reason is, we’ve had one. He wasn’t anywhere near as successful as Froome, but his small frame meant he was rather good at climbing. He was immensely popular. His name is Richard Virenque.
    He was caught in the Festina scandal. Every interview he made at the time (late 90s) proved conclusively he didn’t have the brains to even spell EPO.
    Yet he became a figure of constant mockery, and that continued when he restarted his career.
    And yet all that was before the Armstrong scandal.
    Now the distrust is greater, and results always suspect.

    Just for my information was Virenque actually found guilty of doing anything wrong or was he believed guilty by association? They is a difference as I am sure you know.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  10. #10
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Just for my information was Virenque actually found guilty of doing anything wrong or was he believed guilty by association? They is a difference as I am sure you know.
    I didn't know the answer to your question. But I do now. Try Google...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Just for my information was Virenque actually found guilty of doing anything wrong or was he believed guilty by association? They is a difference as I am sure you know.
    'Virenque confesses to using drugs

    Wednesday 25 October 2000
    The Guardian

    The unthinkable has finally happened. Millions of ordinary French people who watch the Tour de France each summer now have to digest the fact that their idol Richard Virenque took banned drugs.

    Having remained in denial for two years and three months since he and his Festina team were thrown off the Tour, Virenque, France's most popular cyclist and biggest Tour star of the 90s, created a sensation here yesterday morning when he finally admitted that he had used the blood-boosting hormone erythropoietin (EPO). '

    I for one really hope Froome wins number 5 and grinds all the others into dust.
    Then tells the ill mannered, bad sport and childish French to go do one.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    I can partially answer that question and say yes, they would.
    And the reason is, we’ve had one. He wasn’t anywhere near as successful as Froome, but his small frame meant he was rather good at climbing. He was immensely popular. His name is Richard Virenque.
    You think the French would laugh if Bardet went of the road or would this only be reserved for dopers? Virenque was a drugs cheat, Froome isn’t.

    The French hate Froome because he’s successful and they haven’t won a tour for thirty odd years. Bertie didn’t get the kind of treatment that Froome does despite being banned for doping. Why would that be?
    Last edited by benny.c; 7th July 2018 at 23:34.

  13. #13
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Why would they? Froome and Sky are controversial. He may be a huge champion, he may be a cheat. Your defence is akin to that of Armstrong for so many years.
    Even if they are clean, they are sloppy. Which doesn’t reflect well on the most professional team in the tour.
    France is as used to not winning the tour as England was at not winning Wimbledon or the World Cup. The fact that the winner wasn’t French never mattered.
    But they don’t like cheats. They learnt to dislike Armstrong more and more because it was becoming clear all was not right; it took many years to prove it conclusively.
    Froome was cheered on his first tours. It is when things don’t add up that people start to dislike.
    And they cheered on his fall because they do not like how charges were dropped at the last minute without a satisfactory explanation, just because it couldn’t be proven beyond reasonable doubt.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  14. #14
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    Why didn’t the French abuse Bertie on the road then, a proven and banned doper? And what about Jalabert and Hinault, do they get grief when they appear in public?

    Long before Salbutamol-gate we had cans thrown at the Sky bus, Richie Port punched in the ribs and Froome has been spat at and had urine thrown at him. Just disgusting and let’s not pretend that it’s about the French being on some noble quest to drive cheats from the sport.
    Last edited by benny.c; 8th July 2018 at 00:11.

  15. #15
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    They did. Especially in 2011 (or was it 2012)?
    He hasn’t won much in France after that.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  16. #16
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    No pretend here. They are fishy and treated with suspicion by many. But we have idiots too, you know; it’s not just a UK exclusive.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  17. #17
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    Selective idiots though it seems. I’m genuinely concerned about rider safety on the mountain stages this year.
    Last edited by benny.c; 8th July 2018 at 00:21.

  18. #18
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Yes. As selective as those marching against “muslamic ray guns”. Or those hanging a monkey in Hartlepool. Or the special groups of football supporters who behave like idiots following their clubs during the European Cups. You know who they are.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  19. #19
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Sky is guilty as sin and it’s really their fault. They have completely mismanaged this situation and let it escalate. I have absolutely no sympathy.
    They only started to deal with the issue a few days ago, by releasing their plans for the 19th stage of the Giro. Excellent but probably too little too late.
    They need to mount a proper communication campaign, be as open as they can with the press and totally spotless on every sample, no missed test, no delay and no excuse.
    But that sort of operation needs to start weeks, months before the Tour. Not 24h before the start.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  20. #20
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    This anti Skye obsession started years ago though, whipped up by the French press and (doper) ex-pros. There’s not many sports were fans can get so close to the athletes but if it carries on in a similar vein then I can see some stage sections being closed to fans. This isn’t Sky’s fault.

    If we want transparency then every team needs to publish a list of TUEs, ride data for each stage and all doping test results. That’s all teams, not just Sky, and that’s down to the UCI.

    CF has already stated that the UCI and WADA should publish the full details of his case.
    Last edited by benny.c; 8th July 2018 at 00:44.

  21. #21
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    At the end of the day, the Tour is what it is. If teams don’t want the fans they can boycott it.
    But no, they cannot, because it is by far what gives sponsors the greatest exposure. It would be illegal to prevent spectators from being on the side of the road. At the moment the team in the crosshairs is Sky. They either manage the situation or put their riders at risk, or desist.
    When another team starts winning big I can guarantee that regardless of nationality they will come under intense scrutiny. And just like Sky, if they don’t manage properly it will be a professional fault, not the public’s. Not even the idiot’s.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  22. #22
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    I can pretty much guaranty that no AG2R rider will ever be spat at, punched or have p*ss thrown at them when riding the tour, even in the unlikely event that they manage to string a few wins together. And blaming the teams not the people throwing the p*ss is nonesense. That’s exactly what these clowns want - intimidate the riders enough so that the teams will pull out.

    WADA blamed the UCI for the delay in handling Froome’s case by the way, not Sky.
    Last edited by benny.c; 8th July 2018 at 01:03.

  23. #23
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Sky is not responsible for the delays but for mismanaging the communication.
    Your guarantee is worthless. Ask Hinault how many times he was spat at, or hit. The difference is that he returned the favour. Same idiots, or their offsprings.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  24. #24
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    Hinault was spat at and punched by the French public? That’s news to me.

  25. #25
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Tour de France 2018

    He received a book on the head, was spat at, had tacks sprinkled in front of him. He always said that it was perfectly normal that out of 10s of thousands spectators there would be a handful of uncontrollable idiots. Things are worse when the stage is late as more people have over indulged.
    Sean Kelly had a piece of meat put in front of him ( when you sold the rest of the EU contaminated meat knowingly)...
    These things have always existed. Even France’s favourite of all time, Raymond Poulidor, had to face them.
    The matter is worse for foreign cyclists when they compete against a local (it’s far worse in Italy and in Spain), but you need a local with a chance to win so in effect the fact that France hasn’t competed for the jersey in Paris has made life easier for the best, a bit like the public in Wimbledon once Henman was out of the tournament. Because the idiots are usually nationalists too. They really are the same breed as the hooligans, and no one has found the nest and destroyed the eggs yet so it will continue.
    But there is no denying that the total lack of crisis management and damage limitations by Sky makes it worse as it gives the more timid a reason to be idiots... as if they needed one.
    Last edited by Saint-Just; 8th July 2018 at 08:03.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

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    Brits playing the victim role again. What a surprise.

    But it's not a surprise that Huertecilla is trolling again.

  27. #27
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    Well, there goes this potentially enjoyable thread then...

  28. #28
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    Some would say being spat at, punched and drenched is p*ss is actually being, rather than playing the victim but he’s British so I fully understand your attitude.

    If Dumoulin had p*ss thrown at him on Alpe d’Huez by a thug in an England shirt, your head would explode.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    ..the idiots are usually nationalists too. They really are the same breed as the hooligans...
    Yes, that’s what I’ve been saying. If CF was French, he’d be getting zero abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks View Post
    Well, there goes this potentially enjoyable thread then...
    No more from me other than racing. I just can’t stand the hypocrisy.
    Last edited by benny.c; 8th July 2018 at 09:32.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by benny.c View Post
    No more from me other than racing. I just can’t stand the hypocrisy.
    It wasn’t you, I actually agree with you, for the record.

    It was more that I was expecting a thread in the G&D about the TdF to be about the cycling!

    It’s the greatest bike race in the world, and whilst cycling always seems to be caught up in constant controversy around somebody breaking the rules, it’s a shame when people let their nationalism spill over into a thread about it.

    Yes, that’s you ‘cilla...

  30. #30
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benny.c View Post
    Yes, that’s what I’ve been saying. If CF was French, he’d be getting zero abuse.
    You have your mind set and I can give as many examples of French riders who had to face the same to prove you wrong it will be water on a duck’s back.
    In that case, let’s let the race and the spectators do the talking.
    Que sera, sera.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  31. #31
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerUK View Post
    'Virenque confesses to using drugs

    Wednesday 25 October 2000
    The Guardian

    The unthinkable has finally happened. Millions of ordinary French people who watch the Tour de France each summer now have to digest the fact that their idol Richard Virenque took banned drugs.

    Having remained in denial for two years and three months since he and his Festina team were thrown off the Tour, Virenque, France's most popular cyclist and biggest Tour star of the 90s, created a sensation here yesterday morning when he finally admitted that he had used the blood-boosting hormone erythropoietin (EPO). '

    I for one really hope Froome wins number 5 and grinds all the others into dust.
    Then tells the ill mannered, bad sport and childish French to go do one.

    Thank you, so pretty definitive that he cheated then and nothing like Froome (based upon the available evidence and the findings of the numerous tests, investigations and allegations made).

    But according to some luminaries Froome must be guilty coz he keeps winning!

    All I can say is that I hope Froome/Sky wins yet again. Then hopefully all his detractors will either provide all their evidence or STFU.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  32. #32
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks View Post
    Well, there goes this potentially enjoyable thread then...
    Probably...unless others can be persuaded to honour the title of this thread and take their spat to the one that already exists: What about the Froome case?

    Here's hoping...

  33. #33
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    You have your mind set and I can give as many examples of French riders who had to face the same to prove you wrong it will be water on a duck’s back.
    In that case, let’s let the race and the spectators do the talking.
    Que sera, sera.

    Trash talk or sledging is sort of ok between participants - as demonstrated by some folks on the forum. It's when it becomes physical it becomes a problem.

    But let's hope it does escalate to that given the many unsubstantiated claims floating about, fuelled in part by the the media, ex pros, and even places like this thread, towards the reigning 4 times TdF Champion. Plus people should remember that a persons nationality is nothing to do with anything in this context.

    Hopefully the TdF organisers, the local authorities and those who attend the event (including spectators) all recognise that they have a duty of care towards ALL competitors irrespective of race, regilion or nationality and that they are all guests of France. If any thing bad happens to Froome or any other riders then it will reflect very badly on France as a whole.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  34. #34
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Probably...unless others can be persuaded to honour the title of this thread and take their spat to the one that already exists: What about the Froome case?

    Here's hoping...

    Agreed, however the other thread is effectivilty dead now, given that Froome was given the all clear.

    Here's to 3 weeks of watching some superhumans and some breathtaking scenery.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks View Post
    Well, there goes this potentially enjoyable thread then...
    That is what I wrote yes. Thanks for the confirmation.

    Meanwhile your fellow countrymen caused violent disturbances in five major Spanish cities because ´they´ won. Quite some victims you are no?!

    Back on topic I feel that Froome ís a victim and treated unjustly. Not because he is a Brit but because hit team dropped the ball.
    I also feel it would be better for the Tour if he breaks his frame and drops out of the race without any health damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    If any thing bad happens to Froome or any other riders then it will reflect very badly on France as a whole.
    Like France or the FSO would care.
    Like less Brits drinking too much on the continent would be bad or like the UK is not putting up barriers itself.
    Neither is reflecting good on the UK is it?!
    Or am I now victimising Brits too?

    Lastly;. The TdF is a French institution that will survice without Brits very nicely.

    Now what can we here do to refelct bad on Spanish tourism so less Brits get drunk here. Please advise.

  37. #37
    Master mickylall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Please advise.
    Go and infect another forum with your racist hatred of all things British, you can't help yourself

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Brits playing the victim role again. What a surprise.
    That is a definitive trolling comment. Virtually no relevance to the thread, and designed solely to inflame.

    You should be ashamed.

    Pete.

  39. #39
    Back on topic.
    Disappointed not to see Frenchman Brian Coquard and Irish Sam Bennett not in this years tour, they would spice up the sprint finishes and add something to the race.
    Happy to see Froome back but it would have been interesting to see if Kwiatkowski or Thomas could step up and be a leader/winner.
    I’m a big fan of Kwiatkowski, I have a feeling he will leave to get the podiums he’s capable of unless he’s been told “it’s your turn next” given Froomes age.

  40. #40
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    G in yellow after the TTT

  41. #41
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    Should be interesting tomorrow. Sky are up early so BMC will know what they have to do when they are on the road.

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    Quote Originally Posted by benny.c View Post
    Should be interesting tomorrow.
    It was and the GC looks promising.

    Looks like Quintana is out of the running.

    Tomorrow spinters fest.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    It was and the GC looks promising.
    Yes, most of the GC riders that lost time on Stage one will be reasonably happy I guess. Tom Dumoulin probably had the best day with a nice little gap maintained - early days obviously.

  44. #44
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    Strange not be seeing Tommy Voeckler having a dig at the front after so many years in the peloton.
    F.T.F.A.

  45. #45
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    Superb ride by Dan Martin this afternoon.

  46. #46
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    Yes, great ride. Bit daft of Dumoulin to draft the team car after his misfortune.

    Pretty much as you were for CG with Thomas looking pretty racey.

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    Maybe only me and Normunds of this parish will appreciate the irony of a Latvian wearing the KOM jersey.

  48. #48
    Grand Master magirus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benny.c View Post
    Yes, great ride. Bit daft of Dumoulin to draft the team car after his misfortune.

    I was watching live and thought he was taking too much time behind the car, cost him a 20 second penalty.
    F.T.F.A.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by magirus View Post
    I was watching live and thought he was taking too much time behind the car, cost him a 20 second penalty.
    Me too. There was some discussion on the commentary about whether he'd get away with it but obviously he hasn't. I wonder whether the drafting got him more or less than 20sec back of the time he lost changing wheel.
    It's too early to be looking at the GC properly yet but it wasn't a good day yesterday for either Bardet or Dumoulin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    Me too. There was some discussion on the commentary about whether he'd get away with it but obviously he hasn't. I wonder whether the drafting got him more or less than 20sec back of the time he lost changing wheel.
    It's too early to be looking at the GC properly yet but it wasn't a good day yesterday for either Bardet or Dumoulin.
    Rather a team manager goof up.
    ´Stupid´ covers it.

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