Reply With QuoteSeems they are extracting today or tomorrow. Monsoon rain forecast for tomorrow. Godspeed kids. Pray no further losses.
Given that a pro diver just died and the kids can’t swim (wtf were they doing down there if they can’t swim!) then drilling from the top should be high in the options list I think. Logistical nightmare thoughOriginally Posted by catch21
Seems they are extracting today or tomorrow. Monsoon rain forecast for tomorrow. Godspeed kids. Pray no further losses.
Went once as a student and used carbide lamps. They were fun!
I see Elon Musk has offered the help of The Boring Company.
Have they confirmed how deep underground the cave where the lads/coach are trapped is?
Think I read it was half mile.
Just read his nylon tube tunnel idea. Don't see how that would work.
Once inflated it will block the tunnel so water will build up where the boys are.
And how can it be inflated as a tube - will need a sealed end so some sort of air lock at the far end. Seems far too complex.
Last edited by Kingstepper; 6th July 2018 at 13:30.
Just to add a smile to this awful story...
We were chatting about this in the pub yesterday, how they might attempt to get them out if not diving etc, and one of the old boys (in a Trigger from Only Fools and Horses moment) said "Why don't they just drive the coach out the way they came?"
We all looked a bit blank for a minute until the penny dropped, he's assumed the football coach was a bloody bus!!
Summary:
Truly hope they get them all out safely. Let’s hope Thai authorities block off the entrance to these caves after this is all over to make sure this doesn’t happen again.
Can't view the video, but if drilling down, a Robbins Raise Borer would seem like the best option, going into the next cavern on the right(downstream). Can be helicoptered into position.
Ex Navy diver died today, trying to rescue, seems even the top level guys are finding this a challenge.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44734385
- - - Updated - - -
Ex Navy diver died today, trying to rescue, seems even the top level guys are finding this a challenge.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44734385
Now he's out, Neymar is booked on the next flight to Thailand to teach a team of young football players how to dive properly!
I think I'd still put my faith in Rick Stanton et al.
Each trip in and out takes 12 hours even for a pro diver.
Watching news footage yesterday i did see some rebreathers being carried in, while they provide duration they bring a set of difficulties and complexities of there own, even the smallest i.e the REVO micro are just not as versatile in a squeeze situation, also standard procedure is to carry enough open circuit gas or Bailout to make a safe exit or to reach the next staged gas along the exit route, open circuit skills do not directly transfer across to units and each manufacturer is a suite of training on its own.
Given the distance, visibility and narrowness I don't see how these lads can dive out.
Most experienced divers would panic and not be able to achieve such a dive.
At the very least they will need full face masks or preferably the glass doom type things you see wildlife presenters using that they can talk in. They must take away the risk as much as possible of losing the regulator, the mask flooding or coming off completely.
If it was my son I would want them to wait until they can walk out plus drill an air hole down to the large chamber they are in to mitigate the oxygen and carbon dioxide issues.
They said they don’t know if further rain will flood the pocket they are in it not, so they don’t have the luxury of waiting to walk out sadly. Risks will have to be taken and time is the greatest enemy here
They've apparently got an air line in now.
Article...Thailand cave rescue: [some] questions you want answered.
BBC...Thai cave rescue: What next?
Article...[Options]...inc drilling and a back door.
Update...Thai cave [rescue] could launch this weekend:
A proposed plan to rescue the boys soccer team trapped in a partly flooded cave in northern Thailand could launch as soon as this weekend, ABC News has learned.
According to an internal U.S. government report obtained by ABC News, the Royal Thai navy, supported by divers from the United Kingdom, the United States and other nations, has briefed Thai military leadership, interior ministry officials and the provincial governor on a proposed operation to evacuate the 12 boys and their coach from the miles-long cave in Chiang Rai province, alongside experienced divers in what is being called a “buddy dive.” Thailand’s prime minister will be briefed on the proposal Saturday morning local time.
Despite the risks, the accelerated timeline would take advantage of the children still having high oxygen levels within the cave complex, their relatively good health and also the fact that this would occur before the heavy rains are forecast to hit the region Sunday, which could raise water levels inside the cave and make a rescue mission even more precarious, according to the document.
...
A decision timeline was unknown.
Last edited by PickleB; 7th July 2018 at 11:13.
Can you imagine if the predicted rains come heavy Sunday and everyone has to sit helpless.
Looking at the options I think it’ll be a back way they find in to the cave rather than swimming out. I read it’s a 5 hour swim! Got to remember the kids will not be in overly great shape anyway and most of them can’t even swim. Can you imagine when your child couldnt swim asking them to dive through underwater caves and squeezes! Certain pannick and drowning will happen in that situation.
They may stage scooters in the wider section of the route to assist and speed up the exit.
And so it begins, heard on the radio that they have got the water level down a bit so they can walk and wade through some sections. The longest dive section is down to 30 metres approximately so I retract what I stated above concerning it being an impossible dive for the boys. I am not religious but I will be doing positive thinking and willing them to succeed over the next couple of days.
Yep it's underway today. Thai news is stating they are confident that they can get most if not all out safely but are expecting sadly that not all will make it out
Water level in the caves have dropped by 30% & hopefully stay low for next couple of days.
I guess it's now or never fingers crossed for the safe return of everybody below the surface.
A bit alarming when the norm is positive rhetoric that they already announce they expect losses
Reports do appear to be conflicting.
The one I just read seemed to indicate that they were expecting to be able to walk the children a lot of the way out and then hand them over the trained divers for some of the tricker parts. The story I read didn’t mention possible losses.
I’m not religious but I am sending them all positive thoughts and can only imagine the pressure the professionals and families are under.
The main issue is that part of the rescue involves a 30 metre dive in coffee-black water in very narrow confines that mean they will need to remove the air tanks to get through part of the section and then reattach once they are through. All this with kids who can't swim let alone dive. And with a Thai Navy Seals sadly dying whilst trying to get through this very section.
They will have 2 seals for each boy so they are providing a high level of assistance but this is a difficult one.
Desperately hoping they all make it - this is guaranteed to be made into a Hollywood film I'd sayA bit alarming when the norm is positive rhetoric that they already announce they expect losses
For anyone who hasn't experienced cave diving have a look at what's going on out there.
https://www.facebook.com/LovePattaya...6323889907023/
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
When these kids entered the cave was it the same route that the divers are having to take now to reach them? The reports are of really tight narrow sections which will be difficult for them to navigate. Did they travel this same route in albeit in dry conditions?
This mission is terrifying . Really hopes it ends in good news. Respect to those involved .
I can only believe that is the case. And some of them had been there before.
They would have navigated the "really tight narrow sections" in the dry wearing what you saw when they were rescued, ie lightweight soccer gear. I presume that they had torches and they're all fairly wiry athletic types, from the photos that I've seen.
I've no idea what the water temperature may be, but I assume that they're going to need something more substantial going out to protect against injury. Even so, they should be physically capable of making it, but I suspect the psychological effects are the major concern. Getting stuck under water in next to zero visibility is likely to panic anyone. Assisting someone who is panicking on the surface where the rescuer can talk to them is risky enough. Doing it in a water filled pipe where they probably can't even turn round doesn't bear thinking about, IMO. But I'm guessing that's exactly what they have to do.
Here's hoping...
Where’s best to follow updates on the situation? The normal news channels coverage is pretty poor.
As they've cleared all the media away from the site I don't think that you'll find much of interest until (possibly) after 14h00 if they manage to get one of the lads out. After that it's likely to be slow burn...not that the media will put it that way, they'll just replay every little thing until something else happens.
BBC:
When the operation began, officials said the earliest the boys were likely to reach the surface was 21:00 local time (14:00 GMT) on Sunday. One official has said it could take two to three days to get them all out.
USAToday:
Thirteen foreign divers and five Thai divers began the operation at 10 a.m. Sunday morning, the governor said.
He said it’s expected to take 10-12 hours for the first boys to emerge and that the trapped boys and their families had been informed of the plan.
...
Water levels inside the cave dropped by around a foot on Saturday and are at their lowest levels since the team became trapped more than two weeks. Rescuers are able to walk deep into the cave, all the way to the “third chamber,” which is around one mile away from where the boys are located.
Officials wouldn’t say how much diving the boys would be required to do in the rescue operation.
It is also unclear how long the entire operation will take.
The Straits Times...link...is probably as good as any source for breaking news, along with the BBC.
Edit Meanwhile, elsewhere in Thailand...Death toll climbs to 41, 15 still missing:
The death toll from a tourist boat accident off the coast of Thailand's Phuket island climbed to 41 yesterday, with 15 people still missing, officials said.
Rescuers had last night suspended a search for those still missing from the sunken vessel, the Phoenix, which capsized in rough waters on Thursday evening with 93 Chinese tourists and 12 Thai crew and tour guides on board. The accident is one of Thailand's worst in recent history.
So far, 49 people have been rescued, officials said.
Last edited by PickleB; 8th July 2018 at 13:04.
At least 2 boys out according to BBC.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44757804
Good news indeed. More here...link.
Edit Anyone read Thai? Tweet link:
Apparently it reads:
Full face masks; 2 divers accompanying 1 boy; guided by rope. When facing a very narrow path, they will release the tank from back and slowly roll tank & guide the boy through. They walk from Chamber 3 to mouth of cave
Last edited by PickleB; 8th July 2018 at 13:25.
BBC live coverage https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/44755093
Come on boys Godspeed
Here's hoping and praying. What heroes those divers are.
Another 4 are through the danger spot and are walking out. Weakest were removed first. Sounds very encouraging news
Thai Straits page is regularly updated too...link...same link as above.
Looks like 9 of them are staying overnight in there and the extraction will conclude tomorrow
If the weather (flooding) permits, then it's probably a good idea to rest the party of "13 foreign divers and five members of Thailand's elite navy SEAL unit" before recommencing. Given the number still in there, I wouldn't be surprised if this goes on for more than one more day.
Great news, total respect.
I don’t know if these are actual photos of the rescue but the wife just sent me these which have been posted by her Thai friends.
No they aren't pictures of the rescue.
An amazing effort by all concerned. Here's hoping that tomorrow the remaining individuals can be brought out successfully. Interesting that the kid's air supply is being carried by the lead diver to minimize any stress negotiating narrow passages where the cylinders would have to be removed, whether on the back or side-slung.
Four more on their way...link:
Four more boys have reached Chamber 3 in Tham Luang -- past the narrow, treacherous passage near the T-junction that poses the greatest threat to the rescue operation, a source in the operation centre, a source in the operation centre said on Monday.
The source said the boys arrived at the chamber at 4pm after being rescued by foreign and Navy Seal divers from the ledge - called Nern Nom Sao.- where they had sheltered from floodwaters for more than a week.
It seems that the first four are being kept in isolation at the hospital and have yet to see their families and friends. One report suggested that the families don't know who had been rescued. But there are four names on the internet.
It may be that the Thai authorities are doing this to manage the media and prevent the frenzy they will cause until the completion of the operation. That is simply a supposition, I have nothing to back it up.
Update Link:
Medical teams previously said concerns included hypothermia and an airborne lung infection known as “cave disease”, which is caused by bat and bird droppings.
Somboon Sompiangjai, 38, the father of one of the trapped boys, said parents were told by rescuers ahead of Sunday’s operation the “strongest children” would be brought out first.
“We have not been told which child has been brought out ... We can’t visit our boys in hospital because they need to be monitored for 48 hours,” Somboon told Reuters.
“I’m hoping for good news today,” he said.
See also: Histoplasmosis.
Last edited by PickleB; 9th July 2018 at 11:32.
What do people think about bringing out the weakest first?
My gut instinct would be to bring out one of the strongest first to 'prove' the extraction would work. Having said that they're all sportsmen (boys) so starting from good fitness level (when entering the cave anyway).
Team work involved, look after weakest first, the stronger can last longer.
Simple as this.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
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