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Thread: Missing Thai Boys found alive after 9 days lost in an underground cave

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    What do people think about bringing out the weakest first?

    My gut instinct would be to bring out one of the strongest first to 'prove' the extraction would work. Having said that they're all sportsmen (boys) so starting from good fitness level (when entering the cave anyway).
    I think strategically it is the normal thing to do. I suppose there is an option of modifying the technique as you gain experience, but I expect these guys are the best in the business and get it right or very nearly right first time. Get the weakest out before they deteriorate any further. Clearly they haven't defined "weakest" so this may be physical or psychological. Possibly they also think with rain coming the extraction might become harder by the hour?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    What do people think about bringing out the weakest first?

    My gut instinct would be to bring out one of the strongest first to 'prove' the extraction would work. Having said that they're all sportsmen (boys) so starting from good fitness level (when entering the cave anyway).
    I've read both strongest first and weakest first. I think we'll just have to wait for the official debrief / press conference to get any understanding of their strategy.

    Strongest doesn't have to mean fittest as the ability to cope mentally may well be a factor. On the other hand, weakest might mean the most in need of outside attention. It may be that some of the subtleties are getting lost in translation.

  3. #103
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    Missing Thai Boys found alive after 9 days lost in an underground cave

    I think weakest first is probably the best approach, leaving the stronger behind must leave a better moral back in the cave?

    Why do you think they are limiting it to 4 boys a day? Can’t they just have 3 teams of divers so once the first 4 come out the next team go in to get the next 4?

    There probably is a good reason but given that they are expecting rain and daylight makes no difference inside the caves I would have thought they’d plan to get them out as soon as?
    Last edited by IAmATeaf; 9th July 2018 at 14:26.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAmATeaf View Post
    (...)
    Why do you think they are limiting it to 4 boys a day? Can’t they just have 3 teams of divers so once the first 4 come out the next team go in to get the next 4?
    (...)
    What I have understood, they need to replace oxygen tanks along the route after every rescue mission.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  5. #105
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    I am very happy to see these kids being rescued, but isn't it a sign of our age that the world holds its breath - and a simultanious boat accident a couple of hundred miles to the south, where 13 children and 28 adults have died a few days ago, receives absolutely no attention.

    And while the Thai drama unfolded, more than 500 refugees, amongst them many children, have drowned in the Mediterranian Sea.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    Team work involved, look after weakest first, the stronger can last longer.
    Always the weakest first as they would only get weaker

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    I am very happy to see these kids being rescued, but isn't it a sign of our age that the world holds its breath - and a simultanious boat accident a couple of hundred miles to the south, where 13 children and 28 adults have died a few days ago, receives absolutely no attention.

    And while the Thai drama unfolded, more than 500 refugees, amongst them many children, have drowned in the Mediterranian Sea.
    I think it’s the fact they are still alive

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    I am very happy to see these kids being rescued, but isn't it a sign of our age that the world holds its breath - and a simultanious boat accident a couple of hundred miles to the south, where 13 children and 28 adults have died a few days ago, receives absolutely no attention.

    And while the Thai drama unfolded, more than 500 refugees, amongst them many children, have drowned in the Mediterranian Sea.
    I only learnt of the boat accident (#82) as I was looking for info on the cave rescue on the Strait Times website.

    In the UK...and elsewhere...the media tend to report novel items of news, certainly as far a headlines go. Refugees drowning in the Mediterranean and boating accidents happen with some regularity, even in these modern times. Thus these tragedies only get reported if they are truly exceptional or involve people from the media's home nation.

    So yes, it is a sign of the times, but I don't think that it's exceptional as, previously, communications have taken a great deal longer and the news would have been reported (or not) using the same sort of priorities to rank it amongst other news of the day.

    I guess the news gets reported somewhere, and it's up to us the viewer / reader to balance our intake.

  9. #109
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    BBC:

    15:47

    Four boys and their football coach remain inside the caves in northern Thailand after becoming trapped by flooding following heavy rains on 23 June.

    Eight boys are now confirmed to have been rescued on the second day of a complex operation filled with risk.



    Update Again, there is a pause until tomorrow for resupply and recovery.
    Last edited by PickleB; 9th July 2018 at 16:32.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    What I have understood, they need to replace oxygen tanks along the route after every rescue mission.

    Of all the divers on the scene a small amount will have the required skills and training to conduct this kind of cave penetration
    Of those few a small amount will be willing to take on the responsibilty of the rescue procedure
    These few will be subject to the limits of there physical endurance and stress tolerance.

    These elite will have sat in a room with a pencil and made an achievable plan based on the situation for the dive part and will stick to it, its the disiplin that keeps them alive, in this the most hazardous of underwater environments.


    Staged tanks will prob not not O2 as it begins to be toxic beyond 6m . The rest of the dive team will be engaged in resupply of stage cylinders at locations along the line, for the divers, from the above quote i guess they are needing more than on cylinder per diver/child per run, this gas is your lifeline if you have an issue, also this gas covers worst case scenario type stuff. I estimate an ali 80 (the size of cylinders used in the news footage) a stressed child will chug one in under 30mins at reported depths, a big lad could be much less.This is a miracle, i cant believe its happening, as a former diver the very though of it all stresses me, hollywood block buster 2019?

  11. #111
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    The physical act of swapping regulators to a new full set up is going to be very stressful for the kids and crew, its bad enough in a regular dive, if they are wearing full face masks then I guess it means taking off and reattaching a new bottle, those few seconds are going to be rough for all, I don't know if there is a easy way to switch bottles in these situations. Poor sods.
    Cheers..
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  12. #112
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    I've heard the boys are lightly sedated prior to the escape in order to minimise panic which can be fatal to them and the rescue divers

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    The physical act of swapping regulators to a new full set up is going to be very stressful for the kids and crew, its bad enough in a regular dive, if they are wearing full face masks then I guess it means taking off and reattaching a new bottle, those few seconds are going to be rough for all, I don't know if there is a easy way to switch bottles in these situations. Poor sods.
    Couldn't there be a valve so both connected at one point then isolate and remove old bottle?

    Forget this. Just realised the new one would pressurise the old one (unless they have one-way valves - I know nothing about diving!).
    Last edited by Kingstepper; 9th July 2018 at 18:30.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I've heard the boys are lightly sedated prior to the escape in order to minimise panic which can be fatal to them and the rescue divers
    And sensibly so. 8 out, 4 + 1 to go. Galactic respect to the guys who have and are pulling this off and total sympathies to the family of the guy who has lost his life. This is a stunning rescue and I could not have more admiration for all those involved in this.

  15. #115
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    Quick connects.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    The physical act of swapping regulators to a new full set up is going to be very stressful for the kids and crew, its bad enough in a regular dive, if they are wearing full face masks then I guess it means taking off and reattaching a new bottle, those few seconds are going to be rough for all, I don't know if there is a easy way to switch bottles in these situations. Poor sods.
    None of the passges are individually long enough to require swapping of kit underwater. The cylinder swaps will be conducted above water and they will be aided by support divers.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I've heard the boys are lightly sedated prior to the escape in order to minimise panic which can be fatal to them and the rescue divers
    I believe this is unlikely as there is at least one narrow passage where they will have to be able to think clearly even though they're acompanied by two rescue divers (somewhat different to PADI Rescue Divers!!). It could be the case if the boys are physically clipped on to the front/chest of the rescue divers and only unclipped for the narrow passges where they are man-handled through.

    I don't think we'll know the full details until the rescue is over and people like Rick Stanton and John Volanthen speak.
    Last edited by Skier; 10th July 2018 at 08:50.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skier View Post
    None of the passges are individually long enough to require swapping of kit underwater. The cylinder swaps will be conducted above water and they will be aided by support divers.



    I believe this is unlikely as there is at least one narrow passage where they will have to be able to think clearly even though they're acompanied by two rescue divers (somewhat different to PADI Rescue Divers!!). It could be the case if the biy are physically clipped onto to fronts of teh rescue divers and only unclipped for the narrow passges where they are man-handled through.

    I don't think we'll know the full details until the rescue is over and people like Rick Stanton and John Volanthen speak.
    Good to know.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  18. #118
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    A few George’s Crosses in the making.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  19. #119
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    I have been following this story avidly, it's certainly had it's highs and lows. I just hope it ends on a high and that they are able to get the last 5 out tomorrow and the coach doesn't have to stay in 1 more night.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caruso View Post
    I have been following this story avidly, it's certainly had it's highs and lows. I just hope it ends on a high and that they are able to get the last 5 out tomorrow and the coach doesn't have to stay in 1 more night.
    There will also be some support staff in there, eg a medic and a shrink, training personnel etc. I think that the weather will determine their strategy.

  21. #121
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    Freed boys given clean bill of health:

    They have no fever or serious ailments, said public health permanent secretary Dr Jesada Chokedamrongsuk at a press conference on Tuesday (July 10).

    "Everyone is in a good mental state,” he told reporters in the clearest update yet on the health of the boys.



    Fingers crossed for a successful conclusion to this rescue effort.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    There will also be some support staff in there, eg a medic and a shrink, training personnel etc. I think that the weather will determine their strategy.
    BBC:

    6:19 'Give us time to work'

    The mission chief has said full support should be given to the rescue team today.

    "Please give us time to work. Today’s mission is more demanding than the two previous days," he says.

    The past two days brought out four kids each day.

    On Tuesday they have four kids, one adult, a doctor and three Navy Seals to bring out.

    "We may have to wait for a lot time but we hope it’s worth the wait. ... everyone, please send us your support."

  23. #123
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Reuters...11 and counting.

  24. #124
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    One boy, the coach and the rescue workers to go. Everything crossed here. Definitely George Cross territory for the Brits involved.

  25. #125
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    All out. Incredible achievement by all concerned.

  26. #126
    great news
    Quote Originally Posted by Skier View Post
    All out. Incredible achievement by all concerned.

  27. #127
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    Great ending to this story and excellent work by all involved, but let's not forget it did cost one man his life, successful though it ultimately was.

    M

  28. #128
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    Excellent. Just excellent. Spare a moment to appreciate this genuine hero who gave his life for those kids some small solace hopefully for his family that he did not give his life in vain.

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Excellent. Just excellent. Spare a moment to appreciate this genuine hero who gave his life for those kids some small solace hopefully for his family that he did not give his life in vain.
    Yes, tragedy that a family lost a brave man.
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  30. #130
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    Amazing rescue, hats off to all involved!

  31. #131
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    There seems so little good news these days, nice to see this went well and without further fatalities.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  32. #132
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    And all the divers and doctor out also. So much respect for everyone involved in that.

    N

  33. #133
    As has already been said, incredible achievement by all concerned especially given the conditions and challenge.



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    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  34. #134
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    Good result, job well done, a couple of our guys were there as volunteers, running bottles etc, will see them around the 20th to buy them beers.


    mike

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    Good result, job well done, a couple of our guys were there as volunteers, running bottles etc, will see them around the 20th to buy them beers.


    mike
    I'll happily donate to those beers - let me know the bank details. Heroes all of them

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I'll happily donate to those beers - let me know the bank details. Heroes all of them
    Thanks Ryan but no need, flying TO work so breathe tests the next morning, it will be an informal quiet gtg.


    mike

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I've heard the boys are lightly sedated prior to the escape in order to minimise panic which can be fatal to them and the rescue divers
    BBC:

    The boys were given anti-anxiety medication to prevent them panicking as they were brought out.

    Quite a diverse group: The divers who got the Thai boys out.

    I think that the Thai authorities played a blinder. They appear to have taken complete control and sought help where they needed it. This seems to have extended to the media. I haven't found any interviews with the families or those otherwise involved apart from press conferences etc. This, to me, was confirmed by the sight of the BBC's reporter talking to camera while standing in the vegetation away from the road outside the base because the whole of the road was taped off and lined with uniformed personnel.

  38. #138
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    One statement from the BBC reporter that irritated me was his comment that he hadn't spoken to the British divers as they're media shy. Or, perhaps, they have a far more important task to plan and execute, fit in sleep and meals where possible etc. Some media individuals are so full of their own self-importance.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I've heard the boys are lightly sedated prior to the escape in order to minimise panic which can be fatal to them and the rescue divers
    Maybe not so lightly:


  40. #140
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  41. #141
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    Saman's details if anyone wants to chip in a few for the widow and kids.


    NAME: MR Saman Gunan.
    BANK: Krung Thai Bank Public Company Limited.
    Bank Address: 35 Sukumvit Road, Bangkok 10110 Thailand.
    BRANCH: Robinson Roi-et.
    ACCOUNT NUMBER: 6700401003.
    SWIFT CODE: KRTHTHBK.

    mike

  42. #142
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    WaPo link..."the [USAF] officer, who spoke to The Washington Post with permission from his superiors on the condition that he not be identified":

    ...Air tanks were stashed along the muddy passageways, enough for the 12 boys, their coach, the four SEALs who had embedded with them, and the 18 divers who would carry them out. Riggers strung a web of static ropes for hoisting the cocoon-like stretchers over vast fields of jagged rocks.

    By 10:30 a.m. on July 8, the core team of 18 divers was in the water: Among them, Brits, Thai SEALs and diving buddies from the Gulf of Thailand beach resort of Koh Tao.

    One group made their way to the final chamber. By the time they emerged, the players and Coach Ek, as Ekapol was known, had elected the boy who would go first. Officials have refused to identify him, but friends and parents said he was Mongkon Boonpiem, a 13-year old with a lucky name: “the auspicious one.”

    The wetsuit, the smallest they had, still did not cling to his emaciated frame like it should. They readied the mask, attached to a tank filled with 80-percent oxygen. The rich mixture would saturate his tissues, making him easier to revive if he stopped breathing.

    Richard Harris, an Australian anesthesiologist and cave diver, gave the boy a final assessment. The boy was given what Thai and American participants described variously as a muscle relaxant or anti-anxiety medication. A panic attack in a chokepoint no bigger than a manhole would almost certainly be fatal.

    Finally, the boy was swaddled in a flexible plastic stretcher — akin to a tortilla wrap, Hodges said — to confine his limbs and protect him from the cheese-grater walls. And then, with his teammates watching, they pulled him under the murky water.

    The original plan had called for two divers — one in front of the stretcher, one behind. But that configuration was scrapped as too bulky for the shoulder-width passages and elbow turns.

    “Having that second person provided you nothing,” the U.S. Air Force officer said.

    Instead, a diver kept the swaddled boy in a body-to-body clinch for as much of the swim as possible, the officer said, handing the boy over to a fresh diver after his designated stretch. Keeping the child warm was critical.

    “Even then the divers would get cold,” the Air Force officer said. “That is a lot of time in the water and water is constantly running in there because of the flow so that pulls that body heat away even if you have a wet suit.”

    The worst portion of the swim was the last one, a deep tubular swoop that held the water like a sink trap. All told, it was a grueling two-hour trek through muck-filled passages.

    “It is crawling through mud and underwater tunnels, and you can’t see your hands,” said Erik Brown, a Canadian diver who was among the 18.

    But it was the end of the deadliest part.

    “Fish on!”

    The divers lifted the boy, and the crew at the edge of the water pulled him out. Their dry, final passage out was lined with more than a hundred rescuers. One of them, the U.S. Air Force officer, put his ear to the boy’s mask.

    He was breathing. And now, the rescuers could, too.

    “It was a huge weight off our shoulders,” the officer said.

    'It was a little dicey'...

  43. #143
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    Thai boys now face battle with fame::

    The boys, aged 11 to 16, will spend at least a week in hospital and a month at home, health officials said, following a daring rescue from the Tham Luang cave complex in the northern province of Chiang Rai that captivated the world.

    “The world is watching,” said Kham-oey Promthep, 64, grandmother of 13-year-old Duangpetch Promthep, or Dom, 13, captain of the ‘Wild Boars’ soccer team.

    “He was trapped in a cave and everyone in the country and from around the world had to come and help him. What do we have to give them in return?” Kham-oey told Reuters.

    “We have nothing, so he must be a good boy.”

    They already face the pressure of rising expectations.

    The head of the Thai navy SEAL diving team involved in their rescue urged the boys to make the most of their lives and “be a force for good”.

    Global attention on their fate and the multinational rescue has put the area firmly on the map, with plans for a museum to showcase the rescue.

    Despite the heightened interest and pressure, the boys need to live as normally as possible, said Dr. Andrea Danese of the Institute of Psychiatry, Psychology and Neuroscience at King’s College in London.

  44. #144
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    Coach and stateless boys may be made citizens:

    Thailand is considering giving citizenship to the coach and three stateless members of the Wild Boars football team who were rescued from the flooded Tham Luang cave complex after more than two weeks underground.

    ...

    Venus Sirsuk, the director of the Bureau of Registration at the Thai interior ministry, confirmed his office was looking into granting citizenship to the four. “Right now, the officials in Mae Sai district office are looking into their birth evidence. We have to see whether they were born in Thailand, and whether they have either a Thai father or mother.”

    Asked how long it would take, he told the Guardian: “I have no idea. It depends on whether we find the documents.”

    Puttanee Kangkun, a Thai human rights specialist for Fortify Rights, said a lack of citizenship meant the four had limited rights.

  45. #145
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    Ex-Seal Saman posthumously promoted

    His Majesty the King has posthumously promoted former Navy Seal Saman Gunan, who died helping save the 12 schoolboys and their football coach trapped in the flooded Tham Luang cave, to the rank of lieutenant -- an unprecedented rise of seven ranks.

    The announcement of the posthumous promotion of Petty Officer 1st class Saman was published in the Royal Gazette on Saturday.

    The King also bestowed a royal decoration -- Knight Grand Cross (First Class) of the Most Exalted Order of the White Elephant -- on the late retired Navy Seal for dedicating his life to the operation to rescue the 13 people trapped in the flooded cave in Chiang Rai.



    Greetings from hospital...video.

  46. #146
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    According to a report in the Huffington Post (sorry can’t seem to link) Elon Musk*went on a bizarre rant against a British diver involved in last week’s Thai cave rescue after the diver mocked the billionaire tech entrepreneur’s proposed plan to help with the mission.

    “Lashing out at Unsworth in a series of tweets Sunday in which he baselessly accused the diver of being a pedophile.
    “Never saw this British expat guy who lives in Thailand (sus) at any point when we were in the caves,” Musk tweeted, later adding: “Sorry pedo guy, you really did ask for it.”

    Strikes me as a PR disaster of epic proportions.


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  47. #147
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    Nice touch by MUFC who have promised to bring them over to watch a game at Old Trafford, much the same as they did with the Chilean miners.
    On hearing this uplifting news, 7 of the boys tried to get back into the cave complex .

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fifer View Post
    According to a report in the Huffington Post (sorry can’t seem to link) Elon Musk*went on a bizarre rant against a British diver involved in last week’s Thai cave rescue after the diver mocked the billionaire tech entrepreneur’s proposed plan to help with the mission.

    “Lashing out at Unsworth in a series of tweets Sunday in which he baselessly accused the diver of being a pedophile.
    “Never saw this British expat guy who lives in Thailand (sus) at any point when we were in the caves,” Musk tweeted, later adding: “Sorry pedo guy, you really did ask for it.”

    Strikes me as a PR disaster of epic proportions.


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    Grauniad link https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...share_btn_link


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  49. #149
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fifer View Post
    According to a report in the Huffington Post (sorry can’t seem to link) Elon Musk*went on a bizarre rant against a British diver involved in last week’s Thai cave rescue after the diver mocked the billionaire tech entrepreneur’s proposed plan to help with the mission.

    “Lashing out at Unsworth in a series of tweets Sunday in which he baselessly accused the diver of being a pedophile.
    “Never saw this British expat guy who lives in Thailand (sus) at any point when we were in the caves,” Musk tweeted, later adding: “Sorry pedo guy, you really did ask for it.”

    Strikes me as a PR disaster of epic proportions.


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    HuffPost link...the same story has also made the UK press.



    Edit See also...British diver helped pinpoint boy's location:

    British caver Vern Unsworth, 63, who lives in Chiang Rai, was instrumental in linking up the Thai authorities with the British experts. "I was actually scheduled to go into the cave on June 24 anyway," Unsworth told CNN in an interview in Thailand."I got all my gear ready, and I was going in to do a solo trip just to see what the water levels were like. And I got called out at 2 o'clock Sunday morning, and I was there for the whole 17 days."

    Unsworth's role in the rescue was also pivotal because of his intimate knowledge of the Tham Luang cave system, which he describes as his "second home" after spending the past six years exploring it.

    He had been involved in cave rescue operations in the UK before, but "nothing on this scale."

    It was Unsworth who initally pinpointed where he thought the Wild Boars team would be waiting. They were found 200 meters away from that point, which was "probably around about the best place they could have been," he said.

    The flooding of the cave could not have been predicted, he said, as the floodwater had come through three to four weeks earlier than last year.

    "These kids were just totally unlucky. Wrong place, wrong time," he said. "It happened very quick. You can't blame the coach, you can't blame the kids."


    Update It seems that Musk has deleted some of his Tweets or they've been taken down for him: link.
    Last edited by PickleB; 15th July 2018 at 21:14.

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fifer View Post
    If this is true Musk should be totally ashamed

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