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Thread: NTH Nacken

  1. #1
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    NTH Nacken

    Anyone any hands on experience with these?

    Watched an Urban Gentry review a while back and Veneto was gushing about it, but you do wonder if there's an element of chumminess going on.

    Aesthetically I think they look superb:

    http://www.janistrading.com/nacken-modern-blue/

    And the dimensions (40mm case, 20mm lug, slim profile) are spot on for me. 300m WR. Lumed bezel and crown too.

    But I've no experience of the Japanese Miyota movement, is it the sort of thing you'd expect to find in a 500 quid watch? Thoughts on these in general?
    Last edited by davidj54; 27th June 2018 at 21:14.

  2. #2
    Master Papa Hotel's Avatar
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    The whole NTH, Lew and Huey Doc Vail WUS sausage fest makes me a little ill. I think they look ok but there are plenty of microbrands doing the same.

    I quite like the Pelagosalike... which isn't a huge surprise as it's a 200 quid Pelagosalike... But then it's just yet another 200 quid Pelagosalike.

    Edit: 500 quid?? Lol.

  3. #3
    The guy's a pretentious fake shill. I don't trust a word he says when he starts gushing about this stuff you've never heard of. He's basically kept Squale afloat single-handedly.

  4. #4
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa Hotel View Post
    sausage fest makes me a little ill
    Thats understandable
    “All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as self-evident.”

  5. #5
    Journeyman meijlinder's Avatar
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    Also a dive watch named Näcken after a mythical creature known for luring people into water to drown...

  6. #6
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    There's definitely a homage thing going on, with the snowflake hands and squared indices it's got a Pelagos feel. No crown guard. The date version carries the date window in the 6 square, which retains symmetry. Quite cool.

    I'm not a homage snob, I'm looking for a decent quality dive watch with good aesthetics for under £500. I also really like the Steinhart OVM which is more of a direct homage to another watch than this is (albeit afar more unobtainable one), and I feel maybe at £200 less with a Swiss ETA Elabore and a more established brand that would be better value.

    But never known anyone who's had an NTH so putting it out there.

  7. #7
    Grand Master Dave E's Avatar
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    I had one of the other models, name currently escapes me. Actually it was an extremely nicely made thing. Bought it on the forum (sold it here, too), so didn't pay the full price.
    Dave E

    Skating away on the thin ice of a new day

  8. #8
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    Some pics for those that can't be bothered to look at the link!







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  9. #9
    Grand Master SimonK's Avatar
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    For me that goes beyond homage, but not quite a fake - I'd call it a blatant rip-off.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonK View Post
    For me that goes beyond homage, but not quite a fake - I'd call it a blatant rip-off.
    Not really. Date at 6, non indexed bezel, lack of crown guards, lumed bezel and crown


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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by lughugger View Post
    Not really. Date at 6, non indexed bezel, lack of crown guards, lumed bezel and crown


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    Yes really. I mean, come on.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ped View Post
    Yes really. I mean, come on.
    It’s definitely derivative but there are too many differences for the NTH to be called a fake/rip off imho. Not my cuppa - can’t abide the 9015 movement - but if you’re into the look of these then good luck to you.


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  13. #13
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    It's the squared indices and snowflake hands, they immediately conjure up 'Pelagos'. But there are differences - no crown guard, different date position, no track on the bezel, lumed bezel/crown. There's certainly a homage going on no question, but I wouldn't go as far as to say direct copy - not in the same sense as say the Steinhart Ocean One is of the Submariner.

    Part of the problem I suppose is the design of dive watches is so ubiquitous that all new models could in some way be accused of homaging or copying - unless they go totally of the ranch design wise, which is a risk most won't take.


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  14. #14
    I've got a vintage black and a vintage blue. Really happy with them, finish is good, comfy bracelet, slim case feels good on the wrist. The textured dials on mine gives an interesting look though I think I prefer the flat dial on on my dark gilt NTH amphion. Bezel action is nice and tight though I'd be interested to see the insides as the click sounds a bit plasticy.

    As to the movement I've seen Eddie say that he has fewer faults with miyota powered watches than he has had with eta powered ones. Time keeping on mine has been good,


    Bought all 4 of mine from ebay, not sure I'd be happy paying retail but then tbf I'm not happy paying retail on any watch.


    For context I've a steinhart ovm which feels a dearer watch (and was) though the bracelet feels similar.



    They aren't terribly original but at least they've gone a slightly different route to the normal sub homage.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kace View Post
    I've got a vintage black and a vintage blue. Really happy with them, finish is good, comfy bracelet, slim case feels good on the wrist. The textured dials on mine gives an interesting look though I think I prefer the flat dial on on my dark gilt NTH amphion. Bezel action is nice and tight though I'd be interested to see the insides as the click sounds a bit plasticy.

    As to the movement I've seen Eddie say that he has fewer faults with miyota powered watches than he has had with eta powered ones. Time keeping on mine has been good,


    Bought all 4 of mine from ebay, not sure I'd be happy paying retail but then tbf I'm not happy paying retail on any watch.


    For context I've a steinhart ovm which feels a dearer watch (and was) though the bracelet feels similar.



    They aren't terribly original but at least they've gone a slightly different route to the normal sub homage.
    Cheers for the info.

  16. #16
    Master Yorkshiremadmick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meijlinder View Post
    Also a dive watch named Näcken after a mythical creature known for luring people into water to drown...
    Wasn't that Kracken? Or am I just imagining that?


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  17. #17
    Different beast.

    It's actually named after a Swedish submarine.

  18. #18
    Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    Their various dive watch homages are all cosmetic variations of the same basic watch, so some are more convincing impersonations than others. Eg the milsub is even further from the original in proportions etc. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing depends on your opinions about homages, I suppose.




  19. #19
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    I don’t believe I would ever consider a watch by Chris (docvail on WUS).
    What his fanboys didn’t kill for me, he did with a veiled threat to a reviewer of one of his watches.
    The review wasn’t all negative, good things were posted too, but Doc couldn’t accept anything but a glowing review.
    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f74/ho...l#post35559618

    No NTH or Lew and Huey for me, too much Invicta like drama.

  20. #20
    Craftsman Man of Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by svaglic View Post
    I don’t believe I would ever consider a watch by Chris (docvail on WUS).
    What his fanboys didn’t kill for me, he did with a veiled threat to a reviewer of one of his watches.
    The review wasn’t all negative, good things were posted too, but Doc couldn’t accept anything but a glowing review.
    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f74/ho...l#post35559618

    No NTH or Lew and Huey for me, too much Invicta like drama.
    I agree. He appeared on WUS in 2012 and plugged the community for inspiration on how to set up a watch company under the guise of being a funny chap with a genuine interest in watches (with a personal collection of a fake rolex and a cheap digital). He became popular, then decided to make watches for his fans. He worked that forum well, I'll give him that.
    I've handled some of his earlier stuff, and can honestly say it was poor. His later stuff might be better made, but not worth the $$ he charges. Personally I wouldn't buy anything from NTH, Lew and Huey (or whatever they're called) or any of his other trading name set-ups.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Kent View Post
    I agree. He appeared on WUS in 2012 and plugged the community for inspiration on how to set up a watch company under the guise of being a funny chap with a genuine interest in watches (with a personal collection of a fake rolex and a cheap digital). He became popular, then decided to make watches for his fans. He worked that forum well, I'll give him that.
    I've handled some of his earlier stuff, and can honestly say it was poor. His later stuff might be better made, but not worth the $$ he charges. Personally I wouldn't buy anything from NTH, Lew and Huey (or whatever they're called) or any of his other trading name set-ups.
    Very interesting, thanks for the info.

  22. #22
    To be honest, his reply made sense to me and although I don't like the watches, I can appreciate his POV. As a small business owner I can see where he's coming from. I think the review was a little unfair in the first instance - hardly objective; it was quite smarmy and rude IMO.

  23. #23
    Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ped View Post
    his reply made sense to me
    It makes sense to you that someone giving their honest opinion of a watch they've paid for with their own money deserves to have their teeth knocked out?

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Der Amf View Post
    It makes sense to you that someone giving their honest opinion of a watch they've paid for with their own money deserves to have their teeth knocked out?
    The bit about the use of the term 'schelp' was a little off, yes - I don't think the OP meant it in that way and I doubt anyone would knock someone's teeth out about it. But the main points about the work that goes into the business chimed with me, so it must be annoying for someone to post a thread like that. He could have done it in a mildly less bitter fashion, I think.

  25. #25
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    Doc is arrogant, obnoxious guy.

    BUT...

    hats off for the persistence in his business venture.

  26. #26
    Journeyman ChromeJob's Avatar
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    NTH Nacken

    That “reviewer” is really plumping himself up like he’s a down pillow, calling his post a “review.” He opens up by disclosing an incredible bias. He’s got an ax to grind and he found a watch to do it with. Bravo (slow clap).

    (Edit: oh, and I see later in the thread he walked back, admitted he chose his words poorly, was trying to be tongue in cheek (but wasn’t), and apologized. So did DocVail. But the thread got locked. QED.)

    But I’ve see DocVail declare war on the WUS forums, just spewing the same arguments over and over again, even I’ve asked him to sit down and hold his piece after posting repetitively. He won’t give up, and can’t even see when he’s prevailed. One thread, he wouldn’t stop until seemingly the poor detractor was beaten into silence; I think even mods had to caution him. There’s passion, and there’s belligerence. I don’t think I could wear one of his watches after seeing his behavior on the forum, I’d be disgusted.

    And that Oberon ... a direct copy of a Nassau model Mk II put out. (slow clap) That’s not originality.
    Last edited by ChromeJob; 29th June 2018 at 13:34.

  27. #27
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    I have had the opportunity to see and handle some of Chris 'Doc' Vail's watches and they just look gaudy with a mishmash of design cues that don't quite work or make sense, IMHO. I have had some not so pleasant exchanges with Mr. Vail and his merry gang of NTH nut huggers over on WUS for not praising him, his brand, or his watches. I now stay away from any thread he is a part of on WUS and that is hard to do given he is all over those forums spewing forth walls of text.

  28. #28
    He seems a bit over protective of his watches online, something of a mistake to keep making really.

    Doesn't change my view on his watches though, as used buys they're a little different from the normal sub clone, built well and decent value.

  29. #29
    For anyone interested, a couple of days back NTH contacted their email list stating that they'll be producing some more of the Nacken Modern Blue as well as to perform a pole asking which others of their previous models people would like to be re-released.

  30. #30
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    Pure cheese. Had the 1st Lew & Hewey watch when I was into microbrands. The designs usually have something clownish about them, including these sub homages.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by James_ View Post
    Pure cheese. Had the 1st Lew & Hewey watch when I was into microbrands. The designs usually have something clownish about them, including these sub homages.
    What do you find clownish about them? The Modern Blue is pretty much a Pelagos homage, which I don't think many would describe as clownish.

    Never seen one in the flesh and I did read somewhere that the quality of the first releases wasn't that great, but apparently this has been subsequently addressed. 2nd hand values on the recent stuff seems to hold up well, which also suggests the quality is pretty decent.

    I'm quite tempted, the price isn't too outrageous and the dimensions (40mm x 11.5mm) are perfect.

  32. #32
    Craftsman Man of Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColDaspin View Post
    What do you find clownish about them? The Modern Blue is pretty much a Pelagos homage, which I don't think many would describe as clownish.

    Never seen one in the flesh and I did read somewhere that the quality of the first releases wasn't that great, but apparently this has been subsequently addressed. 2nd hand values on the recent stuff seems to hold up well, which also suggests the quality is pretty decent.

    I'm quite tempted, the price isn't too outrageous and the dimensions (40mm x 11.5mm) are perfect.
    These various nth models all have the same case, with various homagey derived dials and hands added to appeal to his fans on the affordable forum at WUS. The prices reflect what his fanboys are prepared to pay, which is probably more than what people outside of that forum would pay. Personally, I wouldn't touch any of his stuff with a bargepole because I don't like the way he does business and bullies critics. I find the designs too contrived, particularly his logos and other artwork.

  33. #33
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    How many Sky TV viewers are fans of Rupert Murdoch? Regardless of what you think of Chris, the watches are good. They are unadventurous homages, but they are well executed. I have a couple and I'm very happy with them.

    The best thing about them for me is that they are very slim for a 300m WR watch (11mm I think). They wear well, bracelets are well made, bezels turn and click nicely, movements are smooth etc.

    That said, they are a lot more expensive now than they were when they first came out (£600 from Page and Copper?!?), so I don't think I'd be recommending them at full RRP, but if you can get one cheap, go for it.

  34. #34
    I also think the way he interacts in the forum is bad. He asks for opinion and he becomes sarcastic and arrogant once he gets negative feedback or criticism. The fanboyism is astonishing, however, in WUS.

    I was interested in buying a Nacken (the black version) but what turned me away was the fanatic fanbase. I also thought if I really dig the design, the Pelagos is the way to go (which I don't own either).

  35. #35
    As long as he's not committed any major war crimes, I'm not too fussed if he's upset a few people online.

    I like the designs so my only concern is the quality. I paid not much more than the NTH RRP for my Ginault, the finishing on which is absolutely outstanding, so the bar has been set pretty high.

    I've read comments that the NTH finishing (perhaps on the earlier models?) is below that of Steinhart, which in turn seems to be regarded as being a notch or two below Ginault's.

  36. #36
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    Anything TGV pushes is a non from me.

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    Anything TGV pushes is a non from me.
    Well, you're on the right forum as he doesn't get much love on here!

    I find his reviews pretty well done with good attention to detail and he obviously does his research beforehand. As to whether he's a 'shill', which seems to be the most common criticism, along with suspicion of his accent(!), I have no idea. I did have a Squale 1521 for a while (one that he's heavily pushed over time) and thought the quality was excellent.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColDaspin View Post
    What do you find clownish about them? The Modern Blue is pretty much a Pelagos homage, which I don't think many would describe as clownish.

    Never seen one in the flesh and I did read somewhere that the quality of the first releases wasn't that great, but apparently this has been subsequently addressed. 2nd hand values on the recent stuff seems to hold up well, which also suggests the quality is pretty decent.

    I'm quite tempted, the price isn't too outrageous and the dimensions (40mm x 11.5mm) are perfect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Kent View Post
    These various nth models all have the same case, with various homagey derived dials and hands added to appeal to his fans on the affordable forum at WUS. The prices reflect what his fanboys are prepared to pay, which is probably more than what people outside of that forum would pay. Personally, I wouldn't touch any of his stuff with a bargepole because I don't like the way he does business and bullies critics. I find the designs too contrived, particularly his logos and other artwork.
    I agree with Man Of Kent.

    I'm a fan of no nonsense watches but I've had a lot of microbrands in the past with some less than desirable features, crap names and/or logo, but I enjoyed them because they were fairly original and all in all design came together. I'm thinking off top of my head from what I can remember... Halios, Helson, Armida, Magrette and even a Cobra de Calibre bronze I thought was alright.

    These NTH sub homages in particular I don't like the textured dial, lumed crown, the watch names, the brand name (although it'll always be Lew & Huey with that stupid dog logo to me). I mean if doing such a close homage why not just do it right like Steinhart or Time Factors and Kemmner when he was around. Instead these NTH subs have these lingering Lew & Huey design elements.

    As for the owner, rightly or wrongly I was never happy about the way he went about marketing by using WUS as the main springboard for his brand. Not long after he joined WUS he really went for it. Built a very noticeable loud mouth, long winded and argumentative personality and put his plan into action, mostly using the affordables section.

    The users there have more of a "brand supporter" mentality, like it's a sports team or person they are supporting. So I think it was a place that was ripe for someone like him to use for his brand.

    Then again... It's only a watch, buy what you like and wear what you like

  39. #39
    [QUOTE=James_;4959993]I agree with Man Of Kent.
    ...

    These NTH sub homages in particular I don't like the textured dial, lumed crown, the watch names, the brand name (although it'll always be Lew & Huey with that stupid dog logo to me). I mean if doing such a close homage why not just do it right like Steinhart or Time Factors and Kemmner when he was around. Instead these NTH subs have these lingering Lew & Huey design elements.

    ...
    QUOTE]

    Interesting comments - thanks.

    I agree about the textured dials on the 'Vintage' line, which look incongruous and contrived, while the old Lew & Huey logo was cartoonish and cheapened the overall look. The name Näcken does sound like it's been lifted from an IKEA catalogue but, on the dial it's pretty discreet and I don't find it any better/worse than 'Submariner', 'Ocean Rover', 'Seaforth', 'Supermarine' etc. etc. ad infinitum. The lumed crown is a touch gimmicky but pretty harmless and I presume in practice it's barely noticeable.

    Ummm ... food for thought.

  40. #40
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    I do not have ant particular issue with him and am unaware of him in general, but surely there are enough brands out there you can buy from without giving your money to a scumbag. It is not as if the world is short of snowflake hommages, be they OWC, Aramar or whoever....
    Dave

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    I do not have ant particular issue with him and am unaware of him in general, but surely there are enough brands out there you can buy from without giving your money to a scumbag. It is not as if the world is short of snowflake hommages, be they OWC, Aramar or whoever....
    Dave
    Scumbag! I hate to think what you'd call the poor guy if you did have a particular issue with him ;)

  42. #42
    It isn't like he restricted the supply of spare parts to the industry, he has just been a bit gobby on a forum nobody is forced to read.

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