Reply With QuoteTell him 'publish and be damned'. And then tell him to jog on.
Guys back in May I put my Breitling B1 on SC which resulted in an international sale.
The listing is here: https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...ight=breitling.
The watch was sent using Fedex with parcel pro insurance and duly arrived safely having been collected by the buyers wife, after that I heard no more and just thought he was one of our less sociable members.
Today, a month later after hearing nothing in between I received a PM together with a repair estimate for approx $2000 because the stiff bezel (which he says I mentioned but never did because I dont recall any stiffness) is due to water ingress and corrosion of the internal bezel gears and other parts. The estimate also includes things like a new crystal and dial both of which were fine and as my command of his language isnt exactly fluent it may well include a full service too. The watch was fully serviced and restored in late 2016, the invoices for the work are shown in my sales post and were with the watch when I sent it. Apparently if I dont respond in a way that pleases him he will "publish" the story..ho hum.
I have a number of theories on what is going on here, one of the more generous ones is that the estimate is being hyper-inflated (the unnecessary new dial and crystal confirms this to me) but to head this off at the pass (I hope) I have told him to return the watch to me and I'll refund him but I have a sneaking suspicion that he will demand his postage to be refunded, for me to pay the post back to me (so thats not far short of £200) and for the repair estimate costs to be covered (I assume for such a detailed estimate that the watch was fully disassembled). I said that on receipt he should have immediately contacted me and I would have taken the watch back immediately.
In ten years of membership of TZ this is the first time this sort of thing has occurred to me i.e. overt aggression with no prior dialogue and a watch sale that looks like I was being a conman hence the request for advice in case this goes pair shaped.
Thanks Keith
Tell him 'publish and be damned'. And then tell him to jog on.
I think any buyer wanting a retail experience, with a refund after a month, and a watch in mint condition should buy from a retailer, and pay accordingly. Buying used of a private seller doesn't offer that service, and it certainly wouldn't if I was the seller, the money would have long been spent.
Personally offering a refund after a month is going over and above.
If you felt inclined to share the name, then that might prompt people to unearth similar stories. But perhaps encouraging you to do that be a bad idea? I don't know. If it is, I'm sure someone will explain to me why soon enough :)
I notice that you haven't received any H&V since you marked the watch as sold, so we can't work out the buyer via that route....
Was this not noticed on day or the watch arriving ? Think it is a bit much coming back a month later! And for you to other a refund is a good thing to do on your part! Above and beyond I would say. Especially with the also aggressive tone he seems to have come back with.
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Purchaser of a 12 year old watch wants the private seller to stump up more than the purchase price for repairs...
Two words, one is "off".
Name the buyer, by PM if you prefer.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Or even better, buyer name himself. Who are you, who is given to blackmail?Originally Posted by number2
The buyer is clearly pulling a stunt here and should be named so that others can give them a wide berth.
under what mistaken obligation are you and he underwriting here.
Jim
Sounds like horse excrement to me.
My thoughts exactly.
F.T.F.A.
With only one side of this story it’s hard to judge that said if it was me I’d be Interested in what’s happened to the watch since it was reccived.
Based on the side we’ve heard I’d say let them publish.
I think that, as you haven’t yet posted in H&V wrt this sale, perhaps H&V would be a more suitable place to discuss this.
The buyer will then be able to put his side of events and it will be in the correct place for potential buyers/sellers to look.
If it was fully restored in 2016 and 2017 then there really shouldn't be an issue.
However, stuff does go wrong, but to say nothing for a month while apparently costing up a full refurbishment smells like a scam to me.
As SimonK says, let him 'publish and be damned'.
Last edited by Onelasttime; 26th June 2018 at 14:57.
After he comes back from his swim at the pool.
Why is the water ingress your problem Keith?
Go luck with this one.
Last edited by Reeny; 26th June 2018 at 15:00.
Two sides to every story I guess, but it sounds like you're well and truly in the clear here.
You sold a 12 year old watch with receipts for a full overhaul 2 years back. Buyer received it a MONTH ago and didn't even PM to confirm delivery, let alone highlight any issues.
Now he wants another full overhaul paying for, including bits that (probably) don't even need looking at.
Tell him to swivel. The worst that will happen here is that he's going to try and trash your TZUK reputation, when all he's actually going to do is place a big red flag above himself so members will think twice about selling to him in future.
Ive had a further (more contrite) PM and the gist of it now is that he perceived that the bezel felt stiff on receipt (not me) and thought it needed lubrication and took it in for an estimate at an AD and didnt expect a full rebuild quote which shocked him and made him angry when it arrived today. Seems that the dealer is citing poor workmanship from the previous refurbishment as the cause of the problems (FFS..). Anyway at least the conversation has come up to a sensible level now and that is a step in the right direction. Clearly the big issue (forget about whether the bloody watch has been messed around with previously) is that making any attempt at repairs to a watch that you have just received from SC without the sellers knowledge is a no no in my book and I could argue that its not in the same condition if he returns it as when I sold it; but I wouldn't do that, life is too short and reputations are more important than the price of a watch even at this level.
Thanks for the feedback guys
Keith
Below crossed with your last one but how come its now bad workmanship not water ingress, still sounds rather fishy to me.
If the watch was sent asper the photos in your sales thread why would it need a new dial and crystal?
Also bezel gears?
If he sent you the estimate was it from someone reputable you could contact to check it is correct?
I'd be worried that he sends it back and he has caused the damage if it has happened, you said in your sales post that you put it on a leather strap
as soon as you got it back from service so presumably its been no where near water while you had it.
Last edited by TBKBABAB; 26th June 2018 at 15:05.
Ive seen the quote and its legitimate at least in terms of the company name etc whether they are trying to make a fast buck is another matter.
So what have you decided/agreed to?
As far as i'm concerned, if i had just recieved a watch from a member and found fault with it the first point of contact would be the seller, to ask what he wanted to do to rectify it.
Ridiculous behaviour by the buyer imo.
There was a thread a couple of days ago about a replacement keeper on a Breitling strap which (according to the service centre) required a full service. Sounds similar to me and according to that thread quite routine for Breitling.
This ^^^
Bezel rider.
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...ezel-Rider-tab!
The one I quoted is an update on that today.
Sounds like you been very fair Keith. I understand your point of view regarding reputation but after a month I think the buyer is going to have to suck it up. You have no way of knowing if he accidentally got it wet with the crown undone or any other misuse.
I think if a buyer on here decided to dump on this subject he would get short shrift from most members.
Andy
This ^^^
I’d be telling him to bolt. Anything could have happened in a month. If there was something wrong from the start then he would’ve been quicker to let you know.
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Point him to this thread and tell him to explain his side of the story.
Court is in session......
Publish the buyers monicker on H&V under an appropriate heading. Needs outing so to best avoid in future. Can you link back here too.
Surely that’s like buying a used car and then a month later having it stripped by a garage ready to be completely restored and phoning the old owner to ask for his details so he can send the full restoration cost over to him?? That’s utter rubbish! The watch clearly worked and just had a stiff bezel yet the cost for repairing said stiff bezel is more than the watch is worth? Firstly that’s typical of Breitling as you can loose your arse on them but that sounds like a repair place trying it on!
At worst it would need a new bezel which wouldn’t cost two grand??
I’m sorry but the watch looked decent and had history but wasn’t new so you pays your money and takes your chance it’s as simple as that! I don’t want to be stitched up but if I expect main dealer backup then I have to pay main dealer prices and buy new surely?? I can’t have the best of both worlds?? A new experience and ownership for used money at the expense of the previous owner????
I wouldn’t entertain this after a month plus the watch having been taken apart by someone I don’t know and trust who could just be scamming for extra cash/work
If this was a car it would be uneconomical to repair and be written off?!?! That’s rubbish!
Good luck with whatever you choose, I’m guessing whilst we don’t know who it is there may be a few sales post with UK delivery only in them for a while
Chris
Politely tell them to foxtrot Oscar. If I ever buy a used watch privately, I would view it in person and go from there. The watches I sold privately, all the buyers viewed them on collection and paid via bank transfer.
It’s a private sale and something the buyer has to take on the chin and move on with
Same here
In fairness I can’t see what the buyer’s location has to do with it in this scenario? Assuming a F-2-F is not an option, the only reason I’d favour a UK sale over a EU sale would be about insurance, not about individual members. The buyer’s location hasn’t created this situation.
Last edited by gcleminson; 26th June 2018 at 21:14.
Well insurance/postage (esp. if 2 ways) has a lot to do with location.
Sure, but the issue here is lack of comms - entirely unrelated to location?
Last edited by gcleminson; 26th June 2018 at 21:24.
What Simon said!
Ive now been sent a translation of the estimate for repair, a new case and back due to damaged threads, new seals, movement overhaul, new bezel etc etc the dial and crystal are listed as optional. Ive told the buyer to send it back to me, if the claims are true then prestige time (authorised Rolex repairer and Breitling specialist) have committec a fraud with their 2016 refurb at a price of £1200, im waiting for a response. Guys I dont know what to think at this point, the watch looked pristine to me and in 12 months of regular use behaved perfectly and it had excellent history, yes I know a month has passed since it was delivered and if this was Ebay or a used car sale I would say tough titty but its not, its TZ UK we are supposed to be a community.
Keith
At this point, I would be concerned that the watch I got back was not in the same condition I sent it in.
You’re clearly trying to do the honourable thing but I’d be wary of having my pants pulled down - not by the buyer necessarily, but the buyer’s chosen service centre. The caseback’s been taken off, and now the caseback’s threaded..?
lots of valid concerns that have been in my mind since receiving the pm today but i have been in the situation as a buyer on tz when I found out after some time that things werent as it seemed and I wouldnt want to be left holding the baby like I was and to satfisfy any curiosity, the first time I bought a 5513 which was described as recently serviced but turned out to be bolloxed and needed a full £500 William Rice service, the second was another Rolex which four years down the line I discovered had a (good) fake bracelet...so I know things can go wrong as a buyer even on a forum like this.
Is this an official repair estimate from Breitling? If so, any repair will include a mandatory full service (which is usually a module replacement) and anything required to bring the watch back to like-new condition. They won't let it pass QC without this....plenty of threads on TZ about this stance by Breitling.
I think there's a balance between doing the right thing and having your pants pulled down by the buyer. In this case, he's had the watch for a considerable period of time before coming back with the issue and he has involved a third party to pull the back off the watch. This is feeling very similar to the guy that bought one of Eddie's watches then cried foul when the seal mysteriously worked its way out of the case.
No you have misunderstood mate🤗🤣🤣
Whilst no one is telling us who it is except for the fact they are not in the UK then it was safe to say that until we have a name I’m guessing a few will use caution and offer sales to UK! Absolutely nothing to do with location just the lack of a name other than the fact they are not in the UK so from that the only people he cannot be are UK based people😉👍🏻
Chris
My opinion is very much like most
A month after delivery?
Not a chance!
The man would appear to be trying to get you to pay for him damaging the watch.
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Or not even the same watch...
Caseback swap and send back the dud?
Agree with comments about a month being too long and how anything could have happened in the meantime, but irrespective of that, any buyer who opens a discussion with threats would be met with short shrift by me. From what has been written, he is either a scammer or ignorant. Sold as seen and received, he had ample time to get it checked out. if he wanted it resolved, return to you rather than demands to make good as new.
Applaud your sense of fair play, but from your telling of the story, tell him to get lost, go publish and let the court of forum opinion decide.
Someone wanted to confirm that the watch was genuine even though it had paperwork, someone removed case back without proper tools, scratched case and crystal to buggery, misaligned case back when refitting.
Get buyer to send photos of all damage and compare with photos in your sales post.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
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