Reply With QuoteIt's not child care, it's pre-school. It helps children socialise and learn how to learn when their minds are most plastic.Originally Posted by -Ally-
That’s one way of looking at, and I agree to point, but it’s a bit of a polar statement. My wife gave up full time work until my daughter was 2 years old. Then she started part time work whilst the little one went to nursery 2 day a week and spent time with family memebers one day a week. At nursery, she learnt many things. She made friends, socialised, had fun and built her confidence in a different surrounding. It’s not a case of have kids and farm them off (for some it is, I accept that and disagree with it) I fact quite the opposite. My daughter never stayed away from my wife for any more than an hour or two at a time for 2 years, much to the dismay of our daughters grandparents and aunts.
It's not child care, it's pre-school. It helps children socialise and learn how to learn when their minds are most plastic.
Plenty of time for that when they're older.
Many (most?) of us managed okay without it.
Why the outrage about the government assisting with childcare? The costs are extortionate to the extent that people (me included) are considering packing in work. I certainly won't feel guilty about using it.
Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way but I don't think it's a way for the well off to keep their money in their pockets, I feel like it's more an incentive for the "less inclined to work" to actually get out and do a bit without using their kids as an excuse.
Give over, I'm sure most parents now would love to bring their children up like their parents did. In the 80's, on one average salary my family were able to have a good standard of living, in a nice house, in a good area. To afford the same now you'd need both parents working full-time in above average salary jobs. That's not the fault of my generation but the fault of the generation that enjoyed benefits like a free university education. It's a shame the kids growing up today won't get that privilege.
But plenty didn't. Lots of children with huge potential ended up not fulfilling it, due to low aspirations from parents, or sad to say absent or just crap parents.
I'm not a huge fan of the way the benefit system always works but I think a state funded education from the earliest possible age is best for society and the economy (they'll pay for us in our old age).
It's probably in place more for a group of society who raise their kids with iPads crisps and squash. Kids turning up to reception in nappies and barely able to communicate. The fact it's helping the working poor is just good luck
Last edited by Rodder; 20th June 2018 at 22:11.
I think it's partly that standards of living, consumerism and aspirations have increased since we were children. Two parents now have to work to afford all this 'stuff'.
It could be consumerism and aspirations, but it's more likely the house prices.
As an example a family house near me:
1995 – £45,000 Detached, Freehold, Residential 16 Jun 1995
2017 – £455,000 Detached, Freehold, Residential 22 Sep 2017
Now in 95 I had a Gameboy and a Commodore Amiga 500, parents had two cars, and that year we had a holiday in Cala D'or, and a weekend in Centre Parcs. In real terms my kids have similar this year so the cost of consumerism and aspirations haven't altered that much, but the cost of housing has to the tune of £410,000!
Seems I was 5% out according to this. Depending on what you earn of course.
[QUOTE=jaytip;4800954]Seems I was 5% out according to this. Depending on what you earn of course./QUOTE]
And depending on your nursery costs of course, the tax credit on one child is up to £122.50, our local nursery is £275 per week so that's 45% covered in tax credits, not 70%.
Fortunately we do OK with my wife's reduced hours, home working and having grandparents nearby but I've friends paying eye watering sums for childcare.
You must be younger than me!
My childhood was before computer games and such expensive toys. One car and never a foreign holiday.
My father was a teacher (ultimately headteacher) so decent standard of living at the time. There simply wasn’t stuff like mobile phones costing £hundreds that people have to have nowadays.
[QUOTE=chrisparker;4801003]Yes, but this is for YOUR circumstances. Are you suggesting that there aren’t people out there who are in a position to get the full 70%
Kid also don't play out anymore! Sit in their rooms wrapped in cotton wool.
Play station £500 plus new games every now and then.
Football £2!
Some people choose to live on the bread line
One friend was complaining they are skint and struggling, I suggested maybe knocking their sky down from full package to basic for a while. No way was the answer.
Chosen poverty to me is crazy but people choose it.
Reading this shocks me how much child care is, in our day the wife stayed at home until the kids went to school. Fast forward to when my two grandkids were born, four sets of grandparents sorted childcare for free. We are now getting our lives back as they are both at school now, but I still pick the grandson up after school three time a week.
There are so many contributory factors to the current situation and Entitlemnent Culture is just a small part of it.
Women demanded the facility to go back to work after birth - they were ‘entitled’
Parents wanted to pay low rates for child care, while demanding top qualifications from the carers.
The Government steps in with child care allowance - which although allowed many to afford child care - it also fuelled increases in that care.
Youngsters now feel entitled to all the modern trappings while still affording to buy a house. They also (in general) want that house in a specific location (trendy or one which they feel will give them a return for their ‘investment’ (a bit like the Rolex market). They are not satisfied with simply getting off the rental market - they want it to be an ‘investment’ too (not realising that the rapid rise in cost in that area is due to that very speculation. (Again - a bit like the furore about not being able to buy the Rolex that I am entitled to)
It isn’t as simple as “you need double incomes to afford a house now”. It was partly the availability of double income couples that fuelled the meteoric rise in housing costs
In two words, a lot! It was at its worst around £1,600 a month for one 2 year old for 4 full days a week (admittedly we could have used all 5, they charged the same). I did wonder how everyone at the nursery (with a waiting list) could afford it but had forgotten about the potential allowances a lot of people get. There was a small tax benefit through childcare vouchers but not massive.
Once he hit 3, the 30hrs allowance was a godsend, it requires both parents to be working which seems very fair to me, the contributions from income tax I'm sure alleviate (if not perhaps fully cover) the cost to the government. But it has basically halved the cost to us.
As with all of these things, we're now going to go over the threshold and earn too much for the 30hrs, admittedly a "nice problem" to have but still unfair in my mind since our contributions to the state increase exponentially yet their help for us to do that is then taken away.
North Surrey - £77.48 per day (08:00 - 18:15)
That includes 3 meals and 2 snacks all of which are prepared fresh daily by the nursery's own chef/cook in the onsite kitchen, milk or a non-dairy alternative (not formula), nappies, wipes & cream and suncream. All allergies are very well catered for and our eldest Daughter went there for 2 days a week from 14 months to 4 years 10 months and despite her having a severe CMPA (dairy allergy) we never had an issue which is quite a feat considering the often rambunctious environment.
Our youngest who will be 3 in August is currently still there on the same 2 day a week basis but she will be leaving to join the September 2018 pre-school class at the primary school where our eldest joined the reception class last September. This will undoubtedly save money as we will be getting the 30 hours free childcare, we've previously taken advantage of our respective [public sector] employer's childcare voucher schemes. That said, the move has more to do with logistics, having 2 going in the same direction to and from the same place at the same times is much more advantageous to us - my Mother-in-Law lives with us and assists wherever possible and this will make her life a lot easier as she doesn't drive. Clearly the girls didn't have to go to nursery but we took the decision on the basis of their development.
However, I know it may sound crazy but despite the costs involved we were sad to see our eldest leave and will, again, be genuinely sad to see our youngest leave this Summer. All of the staff have been absolutely fantastic and they almost feel like an extension of our family, our 2 have flourished; in their own individual ways, and I don't think we could've hoped for better pre-school preparation - in this respect the cost might have been £77.48 per day but the value has been priceless!
Hang on, Grandad. A PS4 is half that - around £250, and a decent football (as in, one that's not going to fly off in the wind) is at least a tenner these days.
When my little boy went to the nursery the cost was £780/month (included all meals) , you just had to supply nappies and wipes. And each parent had to pay a quid for suncream. He is now 6, ...7 in August.
Now our little baby girl is 6 weeks old and we have booked a place for her in the same nursery, the cost has now increased to £940/month + nappies so basically a grand.
Expensive and exhausting things these little creatures....but waaay more fun than any sports car (on a good day )
Shrewsbury 8am-4pm £62/day
It also doesn't really feel like much of a fair comparison. The cost of a large range of goods will have come down significantly since "the good old days". Take foreign travel for example.
In spite of expensive playstations, iPhones, leased cars, Sky TV and Avocado on toast... one thing that's difficult to argue against is that the millennial generation will be the first in history with a worse standard of living than their parents. Free university education, final salary pensions, average house prices that weren't 10x average incomes and values that have now gone up by 200-300+% make quite a big difference to financial security and long term prospects.
The fact that the pension triple lock still exists and the winter fuel allowance isn't means tested doesn't seem fair to me (as a 32 year old). This is just a reflection of the electorate though...
My childcare costs for my 18 month old are ~£85 a day (in Surrey) for 3 days per week. I get £110 a month in tax free childcare vouchers and my wife can buy £243 but this doesn't go that far compared to the cost. We're lucky enough to be able to afford the cost, but I can understand why many don't go back to work given the expense, particularly if you have more than one child.
a young 'lady' who lived on the nearby council estate usually brought her son to the nursery in her pink fluffy bath robe and slippers, smelling of weed (so did her partner).Seems I was 5% out according to this. Depending on what you earn of course.
So my guess is, their 'circumstances' qualified for the full 70% ...boy was taken care of while they were catching up on Jeremy Kyle and smoking weed all day.
I know I'd rather be in work than being a sad existence...but still, not fair. (they were both healthy people in mid 20s)
It does seem to be becoming more normal unfortunately. We're looking at around £1,300/£1,400 per month for child care and it's pretty depressing. I have a friend that quit work so she could look after her daughter full-time to try and off-set the cost of childcare (and she didn't want her kid to be in childcare 'full-time').
If you're lucky/flexible enough to be able to work from home that is a good option.
Ever thought they might have been dealing the weed
This is totally unrealistic! It is impossible to actually work from home whilst looking after a child under the age of 3 given the amount of attention they need.
You'd also end up in a bit of bother with many employers if they caught wind of you doing so. It opens them up to liability if they knowingly allow you to work whilst also looking after children. What if a child suffers an accident whilst you're on a call (for example)?
No it isn't.
I was referring to the OP's original post, where he states "working from home (internet only)" which I assumed meant internet-only type work. If you're self-employed working from home it would be difficult, but not impossible, to combine the two, or have fewer days in childcare, thereby reducing outgoings.
Nursery costs at 42 pounds per day here, and pre and after school clubs over 20 per day. With one in nursery and two at primary school the costs to me would have been well north of 1500 pounds pcm. Hence I moved to night work. The youngest and I take a lot of naps when the other two are at school.
Summer holidays will be rough.
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You guess wrong then. A couple have to both be working to claim childcare costs when in receipt of Tax Credits.
We did the maths and if my wife worked it would have all gone on childcare. So she gave up work for a few years. She tried to find employment again (in Marketing) when kids were both at school but wanted limited hours, 9.30-2.30, due to school run and childcare. No interest from employers. They generally loved her CV with international experiece with global corporations (Sony, Canon) and wanted to talk but couldn’t flex from wanting 7-8 hours a day in the office. Astonishing in this “modern” age but there you go, their loss for being stuck in the past. She eventually gave up looking and decided to try a business idea. She now makes handmade blinds and curtains from home and has a few reliable interior designers who use her and love her work. It’s completely flexible and she is able to bring in similar money to when she was working full time as an employee but literally doing only a few hours a day. She knows lots of other mums who have done similar sorts of things so these little home businesses seem to be the way forward.
About £720 a month for our 3 year old full time, drops to roughly £420 once 30 free hours are taken into account, I then put £240 through childcare vouchers pre tax etc (cost to me about £160) so about £340 all in.
Last year the other half was on an apprenticeship (at 25 years of age... complete con but she's a mug sometimes) the 30 free hours hadn't kicked in so she basically earnt nothing.
It's crap but it gets easier.
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2 days a week (8am-4pm) my twonager daughter goes to a childminder, £520-£560 a month. My son is 5 and in Reception. We live in Hampshire (north of).
My wife is an HR Business Partner, so is able to work reduced hours. Because as everyone knows, HR is a made up job to give women something to do, and feel like they have worth in the workplace.
We are very fortunate in that my parents are fit and able enough to have the kids for 2 days, they adore each other and it works perfectly for us. They would never accept money so I opened an account years ago with a debit card that they use to pay for food/trips etc. I also pay for a cleaner and gardener for them. Yes, it's still cheaper than a childminder at about £350/month (averaged over the year with gardening) but that wasn't the main consideration. My mum would kill me if we took this away from them.
Sounds like excellent solution all round!
A very simplistic argument.
My generation of mothers mostly stayed at home and looked after their children themselves.
Successive governments over the last 40-50 years have generally screwed things up to the extent that both parents need to work if they want to keep afloat. Housing costs and a low wage society (subsidised yet again by the tax payer in the form Tax credits and Housing Benefits) are the main cause of the need for both parents to work. Also peoples expectations of needing multiple cars, expensive holidays, etc have also not helped (but this again is driven by large companies and shareholders)
The cost of 30 hours child care can come in at around £500 per week (£26k per year). That will not be recouped from the average person taking advantage of this benefit therefore just another drain on the coffers.
My comment was that its not "free" hours. Its being paid for but just not directly by the parents. It is a sad state of affairs that the majority of parents that will be taking advantage of this extra "benefit" will not pay much (or any) extra tax, and neither will the majority of their offspring.
Kind of agree!
I’ve paid plenty in too....
Can I have something back that helps pay for my life choices?
(Please)
Last edited by GOAT; 15th July 2018 at 12:25.
Avoiding the free/ not free discussion, and actually answering the OP. I'm in the south east, and we pay just shy of 1400 quid a month! The next cheapest place would save around 150 a month, but we felt didn't have the structure and activities of where we send the little one. The hours are 730 to 630, but usually collect 5ish. The odd occasion where we are both running late hasn't been a problem. When his 30 subsidised hours kick in we will have to see what the costs drop to
Hi Kev
The bursary my son is £960 a month for full time five days a week. This is considered cheap for London with some places charging £1400+.
I'm not sure if others have suggested but the new government funded tax free childcare is open to self employed people as well I believe.
Hope that helps
Eoghan.
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£85 a day for nursery in West London....
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Wow?? Is that for under 2?
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Hi , yes, it is for a 1 year old, going from 7.30am to 6.30pm (although she is there for less time as that is a very long day for her). My wife and I both have 45 minute commutes to our offices. All the nurseries in my neighbourhood have very similar fee levels. It's very expensive but at least we can see her thriving there.
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