Reply With Quote.MX5.
In people's opinion what would the last of the best manual sports car be?
I'm talking limited electronic aids and a proper gear stick! I'm currently looking for options for something abit more engaging for weekend use only. Currently have a mk3 focus RS which is outstanding, but it's abit too good in some respects, very linear and smooth but abit too gimmicky as far as all the electronics go. Thoughts?
.MX5.
Elise S1. No ABS, No servo assisted brakes, No power-steering, Manual, NA, full independent suspension and you can mod just about anything. Love mine.
Riley RM Roadster.
None of those unnecessary fripperies like flashing indicators or heater, and you can use the starting handle to obviate the need to employ the nasty electric starter motor.
Much would depend on budget and age, some might argue for 60's MGB, MX-5, but an early 70's Porsche, or a mid 90's TVR, the Lotus sounds like a fair call though quite basic, how 'sporty' do you want it to be, are you prepared to 'tinker' with it or do you jut want to drive it, variables dear boy all variables.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
The current GT3 is available* with a proper gear box.
* to those prepared to pay massively over list on the secondary market, or have a dealer or 2 in their back pocket.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
Ah yes, the Porsche GMT II MasterOriginally Posted by andy tims
In response to the OP; ultimately you're going to want something quick but not too quick, light, reasonably usable for more than just driving and very engaging to drive. Depending on budget there is a 987 Porsche for that. At the cheaper end (c. £11k), an early Boxster 2.7, at the expensive end (£40k+) either a Cayman R or a Gen II Boxster Spyder
Porsche - Cayman R or for those with deep pockets, GT3 RS.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Mitsubishi Evo TME
Ah but does it have front brakes? They're for girls, don't you know.
"A man of little significance"
Happy to report brakes on all four wheels, Foxy - and two of them are hydraulic! There's modern!
agreed . you gotta own one of these once in your life, shit the bed competent in all aspects
I would go MX-5, especially when you can do what I'm doing which involves buying a standard car, uprating brakes, dampers (adjustable and very very good) etc and sticking in a turbo to bring the power up to 240bhp. Bear in mind the car weighs about 930kg. It should all have cost around £6,500 by the time I'm done and that includes new wheels, tyres, hood, new Momo wheel, exhaust and I can't remember what else.
I had a Boxster S which was fast and capable but weighed about 1,300kg and wasn't that interesting to drive down A- or B-roads until you're doing 100-150 mph, and that's not really sustainable. I also have a book issued by Porsche that states the electric roof was only 30kg more than the manual folding roof so they decided to go for that, which for me sticks the car in with the TT and S2000 as tourers for the 50+. Excellent as everyday cars that are comfortable, don't mist up in winter because the roof doesn't fit, feel solid and safe and so on.
The MX-5 meanwhile is in the same group as the Elise, Caterham and Noble M12 (along with Atom, BAC Mono and so on). Focused solely on helping the driver go as fast as the car can go. The MX though is something you can park on the street, costs very little to replace (and swap over the tasty parts) and comes with a huge array of tuning and modification options.
As always it depends what you want. Some of the best cars I've driven have ranged from 1914 to 1931 and are a huge challenge (and often terrifying) to drive fast. My tuned and modified MGB GTs were great too but I wouldn't buy one again. In fact I'd go so far as to say I wouldn't have another classic car unless it was perfectly restored (I hate rust and failing components!). Many others would rather have something to work on, I just like the driving. And I don't think much can beat making your own very fast (or not) MX-5 to your own specs for very little money.
"A man of little significance"
To avoid most of the 'Driver Aids' you will need something at least 10 years old.
For the old school feel I still thing the Peugeot 205 gti put the biggest smile on my face when I drive it.
Ive had an Elise Cup 250 for the last year and would have to vote for that as about the most engaging manual drive.
I had an S1 for the 2 years prior and intended to keep it but the extra power and all the years of upgrades made such a difference I’m not sure I’d have driven the S1 enough.
Will get another S1 one day though.
Sadly, I’m having to put up my 250 Cup for sale very soon......it’s yellow, like this one. 🤠
You were doing really well up to this observation.
Another vote for any Elise or Exige variant, if you want pure basics then the original Elise is the extremely enjoyable to drive and will hold it's value. I've had a 1996 S1 with no upgrades, a VX220, a Elise Sports Racer (early S2), Elise SC, Evora (if your budget stretches) and currently have a Europa S and I'm racing an Exige 190 this season and once borrowed an Exige V6 for a weekend from a dealer which if your budget stretches is sublime.
Try a renault 5 turbo - a car, by some accounts, that tries to murder its occupants.
Subaru P1. Looks great too.
Easy choice for me...another MX5 vote.
I had one when is was 21.
It tried to kill me a few times but back then I was an exceptional driver.
Some interesting replies, really don't fancy a mx5.. not my thing. An exige could be a contender, been looking at Porsche lately but honestly don't know where to start with them.. don't mind tinkering, ive a fully kitted out workshop and fully rebuilt afew cars in the past. Budget would be 50k ish.
With a 50k budget then a used Exige V6, go and get yourself a test drive.
Surely an Alfa 4C is the answer? Modern car but no power steering, aids can be mostly turned off, can be re-mapped...
Seven
Havent they got lots of driver aids ? My mate had one, he said the traction control learnt as you went round the track.
A Renault 5 Turbo or a Renault 5 with a turbo?I had one when is was 21.
It tried to kill me a few times but back then I was an exceptional driver.
A Renault 5 Turbo is one of the mid-engined ones (I'm not sure they person who mentioned them meant this or something like the Gordinis or R5 GT Turbo).
I had a 1988 R5 GT Turbo from new (E399 GPK - Still registered and taxed I believe!) - It was a better car than I was driver as I found out approaching a 90 degree bend far too quickly - I turned in anyway, hoping to scrub off some speed in a spin and the damned thing just turned the corner, I couldn't believe it could get around a corner that quick, but it was just as if it had shrugged and said "Is that all you've got?"
No ABS on the brakes (and my misreading of the road!) did cause me to overshoot a junction near Silverstone once, luckily no-one was on the main road!
Certainly not a widowmaker, although like everything of the period it wasn't designed to be crashed!
I've not driven one since 1991 and I fear I may be a bit disappointed if I did, so I avoid trying.
M
£50k is a pretty healthy budget!
As has been said, a V6 Exige would be a great option. Plenty for sale under budget which would allow funds for choice upgrades such as an aftermarket exhaust, or you could go for an S2 Elise/Exige and have a Honda transplantMassive owners club scene and plenty of online support for the brand on various forums if that's your thing.
I suppose it depends on what you're really looking for, what exact itch you want to scratch. You have the speed in your Focus, perhaps something slower and older would suit your requirements. Old MGs, Austin Healeys, Triumphs and Morgans will give you that weekend wind-in-the-hair feeling if that's important to you and would also give you something to tinker with. I'd guess that there are plenty of TVRs about within budget with money left over for the fuel bills!
I had a 205 1.9GTi in the early nineties - it was probably the most enjoyable car I've had. On demand lift-off oversteer, even at 20mph!
For the OP's budget of £50k - I'd probably be looking at a well sorted out Caymen R.
Add: For those with lesser budgets, like myself, then the MX-5 wins hands down.
Any modern Lotus.
Or, for more power and more money (but lots more weight), a V12 Vantage.
Williams Clios shifted pretty well - who remembers those!
Not a manual though.
Build yourself a Seven and have plenty of change or if you dont want open then a cayman R.
Probably a little out of your budget (although there is one for 50k on Pistonheads at the minute), but what about a 996 GT3?
It’s an awesome example of what a manual, analogue car should be. And a definite future classic.
Or a very good car, really, it seems.
All the reviews can't be wrong, can they?
M
I have a S1 Honda powered elise, it tick all the boxes as a drivers car. A nice BMW CSL is worth a shout too, it will hold its money too.
ariel atom....was taken out by a mate in his ( he is an instructor at track days ) and they shift although slightly exposed
MR2 Roadster is a proper drive for very little money.
Everything built after the Triumph TR3A is rubbish! TR's have:
- a massive 2.0 litre Massey Fergusson engine
- Old school SU's (always running rich)
- a British style Laycock-de Normanville overdrive gearbox
- 3 fuses @ 35 Amp (...) twined into a wiring loom made by Lucas, the Prince of Darkness
- Armstrong lever shocks at the back
- no crumple zone
- a steering column aimed at your lungs and heart with no safety features
- no seatbelts
- a 50cm wide steering wheel - a smaller one makes steering impossible
- 'bump steering' so every corner is an adventure
- no power brakes
- a ragtop that takes 15 minutes to install
- s/screens and no wind-up windows
- low seating position: with the s/screens removed, your knuckles can touch the pavement
- a totally inadequate heater and blower.
- a jack that uses a hole in the floor under your feet, in front of the seats
The car does have a nicely shaped handle in front of the passenger seat, commonly known as the 'Oh Sh*t Handle'. Guess why...
I rest my case!
Seriously: the last of the best manual sports cars must be a Caterham.
Honda S2000
or
Caterham 7
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
Nice. Which engine does it have?
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
140 BHP 1.6 Sigma, unfortunately the Cayman R has gone, something I really regret but couldnt justify keeping them both.
Purest modern(ish) Porsche to drive is the 987 Cayman R.
Any Noble M12
Ah, just like my Healey. I should add erecting the top involves a couple of metres of duck tape as well as 15 minutes of your time! I took the heater out. Saves weight and one fewer thing to catch fire.
"A man of little significance"
Oh come on, the M12 isn't that bad. Rubbish grip in the wet, a rather crap interior and a full beam light in the instrument binnacle that blinds you when you use it but all minor issues. Oh and the ungalvanised chassis that rusts like crazy, a front splitter that doesn't actually do anything other than fall off and a rollcage your 6'+ passenger headbutts when you corner enthusiastically.
- - - Updated - - -
Next you'll be telling me you don't need to use the handbrake to slow down.
"A man of little significance"
Did anyone mention E30 M3 or 968 Club Sport?
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On that subject: what about leaking (or worse) coolant hoses under the dash between the bulkhead and the heater! The result? Boiled Knees when hot coolant splashes down!... one fewer thing to catch fire...
And between an AH and a TR... the AH's exhaust runs under the seat & pants of the passenger (when RHD) or driver (when LHD). A real 'hot spot'! The TR's runs straight through the chassis' cavities to the back - in my car's case: with only one damper... my wife can hear the car approaching from a mile away. Loud noises save lives!
"But what about your Porsche? Isn't that a real sports car?" No. It has a more than an adequate heater, it doesn't leak, draught, steering is precise and light. Too comfy!
M
Last edited by thieuster; 26th March 2018 at 18:19.
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