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Thread: Coffee espresso moka pot advice please

  1. #1
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Coffee espresso moka pot advice please

    Looking for a small stovetop espresso maker.

    I have a large 10 cup stellar / horwood art deco style pot. I love it, it was pretty expensive but well worth it i feel. High grade steel, very solid and well made, and uses a silicone gasket.

    I'm now after a small pot 2/3/4 cups. The 6 cup in the stellar range would be too big.

    Before i get the small version of what i have already, does anyone else have any recommendations?

    I would prefer something with a wide base, and prefer steel to aluminium
    Thanks
    Dave
    Last edited by seikopath; 4th June 2018 at 11:15.
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  2. #2
    Grand Master SimonK's Avatar
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    Why not the original Bialetti? Lots of different cup-number options, mine is made from asbestos and lead but they are available in steel for southern jessies.
    Last edited by SimonK; 4th June 2018 at 11:53.

  3. #3
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    I'm interested in this as well actually. I'm actually currently using a Sainsbury's one which I bought on a whim after wanting a change from my Aeropress.

    It seems to do the job quite well but I feel like I'd like a better quality one.


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  4. #4
    Master woodacre1983's Avatar
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    I’d second the Bialetti had mine years and love it. Not dishwasher proof but a quick rinse after using. Quality is good.

    https://www.wayfair.co.uk/kitchenwar...ource=hotdeals


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonK View Post
    Why not the original Bialetti? Lots of different cup-number options, mine is made from asbestos and lead but they are available in steel for southern jessies.
    This, have had a few unbranded moka pots and they've all had something that niggled me, usually dripping from the spout when pouring into cups but my Bialetti has been faultless.

  6. #6
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    I've seen good write-ups for the Alessi Espresso Maker 9090 by Richard Sapper (link...other suppliers are availble):




    ...but I stick with the Bialetti Moka Express in various sizes.

  7. #7
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    I might well get a moka express.

    reason i didn't consider bialetti in the first place is that i wanted stir steel ones don't seem to get good reviews

    the alessi would be nice but £115 ffs.
    -thats almost twice as much as i paid for my ten cup state of the art solid steel monster.
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  8. #8
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seikopath View Post
    I might well get a moka express.

    reason i didn't consider bialetti in the first place is that i wanted stir steel ones don't seem to get good reviews

    the alessi would be nice but £115 ffs.
    -thats almost twice as much as i paid for my ten cup state of the art solid steel monster.
    If you want it to go into the dishwasher go for a stainless steel Bialetti rather than the traditional moka express. Various options are available, but I'm not keen on them as they have a deep well around the inside that is too narrow to clean easily:



  9. #9
    Master Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    I've seen good write-ups for the Alessi Espresso Maker 9090 by Richard Sapper (link...other suppliers are availble):




    ...but I stick with the Bialetti Moka Express in various sizes.

    Hello, I am Italian and know my moka devices

    in the past have used the Bialetti but, being aluminium alloy, did not quite trust it. Also, it tends to get mouldy if you do not use it for a few days.

    The Alessi 9090/3 for three cups is the one that me and most people that I know own in Italy. I have used the same every morning for about 10 years, it is indestructible, super easy to close (lever action, not twist - my aunt at 93 can manage) and all steel. After loading takes 6 minutes to have an excellent moka. Every two- three years needs a new o-ring , a new steel mesh and funnel ( fifteen pounds in total from amazon), unless you want to clean them yourself.

    Will recommend without hesitation

    Ciao
    Franco

    PS: It all goes easily in the dishwasher. although the slight patina that forms making coffee is essential to give full aroma. I only wash it with water every day, no soap.

    PPS: Is actually £91 at Amazon uk: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Alessi-Espr...lessi+9090%2F3
    Last edited by Franco; 4th June 2018 at 17:39.

  10. #10
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    alberto alessis grandad was mr. bialetti

    its amazing what you can learn on youtube


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYmcHMZ0ips
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  11. #11
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    I've found the Alessi at the same price as Amazon at the Richmond Cookshop with free shipping over £50. See link...and they stock spare gaskets as well (link). I did try finding the latter on Amazon...but without success (at a halfway reasonable price).

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Hello, I am Italian and know my moka devices

    in the past have used the Bialetti but, being aluminium alloy, did not quite trust it. Also, it tends to get mouldy if you do not use it for a few days.

    The Alessi 9090/3 for three cups is the one that me and most people that I know own in Italy. I have used the same every morning for about 10 years, it is indestructible, super easy to close (lever action, not twist - my aunt at 93 can manage) and all steel. After loading takes 6 minutes to have an excellent moka. Every two- three years needs a new o-ring , a new steel mesh and funnel ( fifteen pounds in total from amazon), unless you want to clean them yourself.

    Will recommend without hesitation

    Ciao
    Franco

    PS: It all goes easily in the dishwasher. although the slight patina that forms making coffee is essential to give full aroma. I only wash it with water every day, no soap.

    PPS: Is actually £91 at Amazon uk: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Alessi-Espr...lessi+9090%2F3
    I have the 3 cup Alessi. It's not in the MOMA in New York for nothing. A Richard Sapper classic design, Makes a beautiful cup of coffee, You can put the reducer in to make 1 cup or if you are feeling brave leave it out! The Bialetti is okay, I don't like the aluminium taste it can give.

  13. #13
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    I have spanked my spondoolacks
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  14. #14
    Craftsman
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    An ilsa slancio is nice and heavy and looks good too
    https://qavashop.com/698-thickbox_de...ker-6-cups.jpg

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  15. #15
    Master tiny73's Avatar
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    Anyone know how to get a good creme on a moka brew? The box showed a nice creme headed espresso but I can’t replicate that. Any ideas?

  16. #16
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny73 View Post
    Anyone know how to get a good creme on a moka brew? The box showed a nice creme headed espresso but I can’t replicate that. Any ideas?
    I'm afraid not. I get some crema in the pot, but once it's poured out there's nothing left...except a lovey cup of moka coffee (ie not expresso).

    Maybe others have had more luck.

  17. #17
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Think there's a few vids on youtube about it.
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  18. #18
    Master woodacre1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny73 View Post
    Anyone know how to get a good creme on a moka brew? The box showed a nice creme headed espresso but I can’t replicate that. Any ideas?
    When I asked our local coffee shop they said it was due to the freshness of the beans and how freshly ground they are. So fresh beans (from freezer) ground straight away


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  19. #19
    Master tiny73's Avatar
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    Aaah thanks gents. I’m happy with the coffee, the flavour and consistency is exactly how i like my coffee but i do like the look of a bit of a head.

  20. #20
    Craftsman Cornholio's Avatar
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    I had a small £16 stainless one from IKEA, but it had to go back due to a faulty pressure release valve.

    It was replaced by a six cup Bialetti. I got the one with the valve on top that is supposed to give good crema (Brikka), but I'm not sure that it does. Also, the rubber seal means that the coffee doesn't smell as lovely whilst brewing as it did with the silicone equipped IKEA pot.

    To be honest, the Mojave pot hasn't been used since we got a £50 espresso machine from Aldi.

  21. #21
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Bene, l'alessi è arrivato.grazi per tutti tui consigli. non lo ancora provato ma assomiglia alla tette delle monache
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  22. #22
    Master Templogin's Avatar
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    I don't understand moka pot coffee making. Is the first rule of coffee making never to use boiling water? Serious question.

    My other half uses a Bialetti (which I gave her).

  23. #23
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templogin View Post
    I don't understand moka pot coffee making. Is the first rule of coffee making never to use boiling water? Serious question.

    My other half uses a Bialetti (which I gave her).
    I've never measured the temperature of the coffee as it is extracted but it's at a drinkable temperature as soon as I pour it. It is certainly not anywhere near 100°C.

    As wiki says (link): Although the "boiler" on a moka pot contains steam at elevated temperature and pressure, the water forced up through the grounds is no hotter than that used in other brewing methods – up to 90 °C, depending on the stage of extraction.

    It is complicated, but fascinating...see this pdf link The physics of a stove-top espresso machine.

    Simply put, heating the air above some water in a closed vessel with a restricted outlet will cause the air (also water vapour / steam) to expand and drive out the hot water once the pressure is sufficient. It doesn't have to boil in order to do this.

    Getting a decent brew depends upon the coffee, the water, the grind, and the time / temperature of the extraction. Much will depend on how high/low you set the stove. Personally I heat the water in a kettle, turn the heat down to medium high after a minute or so and pour out my coffee as soon as the extraction loses colour (ie it's gone from dark chocolate to light honey in colour). I never let it get to the gurgling stage (unless I get distracted...in which case I swear a bit and have to decide whether to put up with what I've got or start again), by which time the colour is a very light straw.

  24. #24
    Master Templogin's Avatar
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    An interesting read. Thank you. I might even buy myself a Moka pot now.

  25. #25
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Using the code you can get a new alessi 9090 on ebay today for 85
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  26. #26
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Update. Really chuffed with it. Way better than a bialetti. Is it worth three times extra? I think it is, but then i drink alot of coffee. Thanks to Bob and franco for the suggestions.
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  27. #27
    Master Franco's Avatar
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    You are welcome. I just bought on Amazon.it £30 worth of parts, so after 10-12 year my Alessi got new valve, funnel, filter and rubber gasket.

    As the valve and the rubber gasket came in five, if any Alessi 9090/3 owner needs one, please let me know and will send you one in the post.

    BWs
    Franco

  28. #28
    Master raysablade's Avatar
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    We've been using the standard Bialetti 6 (for two people) and 3 (for one) for years and i expect will be doing so until the day we die. Its just perfect industrial design for home use. This is after a few years of experiments with increasing expensive and frustrating Expresso machinery.

    Using the Bialetti on the kitchen stove itself is a little wasteful, especially if you use gas; so the one accessory i would recommend is the Rommelsbacher RK-501 mini hotplate, not designed for Bialetti specifically but perfect. These tend to be expensive in the UK but affordable from EU Amazon sites.
    Last edited by raysablade; 29th June 2018 at 22:02.

  29. #29
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    A few things i love about the 9090:

    Perhaps the most distinctive feature, the seal between the two halves is not obtained by a screwtop but by the handle, which is hinged. Once the top half is located on the water hopper, this snaps down. Takes a bit of getting used to, but when you are used to it, very very clever and much more efficient than the normal way of closing used by every other moka pot I've ever used.

    Another unique feature is the false bottom that you can put into the coffee hopper if you only want to make a small cup. I've never seen this in any other machine. Very simple, very clever, very effective. I just need to be sure to not lose the extra little bit when not in use!

    Little detail - i love the way the lid flips up during brewing to prevent stream diluting the espresso. The counterbalance of the little handle on the lid that does this is pretty near perfect. Very satisfying and Just another example of lovely, lovely design.

    I wasnt really sold on the general shape, but i have grown to love it. So thermally efficient to have such a wide base compared to the amount of water.

    All in all, just very happy with it. A pleasure to use. I used to rock a bialetti in my 20s and so of course i have affection for these, but there is so much in the sapper design that improves the utility whilst being very beautiful. A classic of Italian (or should i say German?? I think sapper was German) design.

    This is what design is all about!! . You can take an everyday object that already is a classic, looks good and very useful, almost to the point of it being a given, but yet still manage to improve it by coming up with and successfully implementing new and fresh and ideas. 9090 is a truly revolutionary design, my only regret is that I'm late to the party!
    Last edited by seikopath; 1st July 2018 at 08:21.
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by seikopath View Post
    A few things i love about the 9090:

    Perhaps the most distinctive feature, the seal between the two halves is not obtained by a screwtop but by the handle, which is hinged. Once the top half is located on the water hopper, this snaps down. Takes a bit of getting used to, but when you are used to it, very very clever and much more efficient than the normal way of closing used by every other moka pot I've ever used.

    Another unique feature is the false bottom that you can put into the coffee hopper if you only want to make a small cup. I've never seen this in any other machine. Very simple, very clever, very effective. I just need to be sure to not lose the extra little bit when not in use!

    Little detail - i love the way the lid flips up during brewing to prevent stream diluting the espresso. The counterbalance of the little handle on the lid that does this is pretty near perfect. Very satisfying and Just another example of lovely, lovely design.

    I wasnt really sold on the general shape, but i have grown to love it. So thermally efficient to have such a wide base compared to the amount of water.

    All in all, just very happy with it. A pleasure to use. I used to rock a bialetti in my 20s and so of course i have affection for these, but there is so much in the sapper design that improves the utility whilst being very beautiful. A classic of Italian (or should i say German?? I think sapper was German) design.

    This is what design is all about!! . You can take an everyday object that already is a classic, looks good and very useful, almost to the point of it being a given, but yet still manage to improve it by coming up with and successfully implementing new and fresh and ideas. 9090 is a truly revolutionary design, my only regret is that I'm late to the party!
    I’m tempted!

    Does the false bottom come with all sizes? Did you get 3-cup?

  31. #31
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    I’m tempted!

    Does the false bottom come with all sizes? Did you get 3-cup?
    All but the 1 cup model come with a reducer. That's 10 to 6, 6 to 3, and 3 to 1 (link):


  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    All but the 1 cup model come with a reducer. That's 10 to 6, 6 to 3, and 3 to 1 (link):
    Thanks for this!

  33. #33
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Heads UP!

    At the time of posting Amazon have two Alessi 9090 6 cup pots to sell at £64.32...link.


    I've just ordered mine. Sorry this didn't appear earlier, OP.


    Edit and update Now back to £111.00
    Last edited by PickleB; 14th July 2018 at 22:58. Reason: price change

  34. #34
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    You're a bad man Bob. A very bad man.
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  35. #35
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    I hadn't heard of this model but now I want one.

  36. #36
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrushton View Post
    I hadn't heard of this model but now I want one.
    I'd say best be quick...but I see that the availability has changed to 'In stock'. However, it's still £125 on the vendor's website...link.


    If anyone spots the 10 cup version (9090/M) at less than £150, please post a link. Thanks...

  37. #37
    Master Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    I'd say best be quick...but I see that the availability has changed to 'In stock'. However, it's still £125 on the vendor's website...link.


    If anyone spots the 10 cup version (9090/M) at less than £150, please post a link. Thanks...
    If you order the 9090/M on Amazon.it with shipment to UK the total is gbp 144.86.

    Franco

    PS: If you want me to order it with delivery at your house is OK, then you refund me by BACS
    Last edited by Franco; 13th July 2018 at 17:42.

  38. #38
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    If you order the 9090/M on Amazon.it with shipment to UK the total is gbp 144.86.

    Franco

    PS: If you want me to order it with delivery at your house is OK, then you refund me by BACS
    Thanks heads up and also for your kind offer, Franco, but it looks as though I should be able to order directly from Amazon.it:



    I may have to buy one when the funds have recovered a little.

  39. #39
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    If you order the 9090/M on Amazon.it with shipment to UK the total is gbp 144.86.

    Franco

    PS: If you want me to order it with delivery at your house is OK, then you refund me by BACS
    Thanks again, Franco...I've now placed an order. Here are the details from the Amazon.it checkout page:

    Order Summary
    Articles: EUR 124.13
    Shipping cost: EUR 6.32
    (Total order: EUR 130.45)

    Total payment: GBP 119.60


    Let's hope that it all works out. I can't believe that it won't and that price is significantly better than anything I can find in the UK.

  40. #40
    Master Franco's Avatar
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    Good price - come down since I looked, was 153 EUR

  41. #41
    Master
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    price has gone up on that link. Now £111. they must have been on this forum!

  42. #42
    Master Maysie's Avatar
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    Anyone use the Alessi 9090 on an AGA hotplate?

    I assume it will be OK, but one of the comments on Amazon was about the stainless discolouring if overheated.

  43. #43
    Master Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maysie View Post
    Anyone use the Alessi 9090 on an AGA hotplate?

    I assume it will be OK, but one of the comments on Amazon was about the stainless discolouring if overheated.
    I have a Neff hob, but it is true. After about 7-8 years the lower part gets darker. This is easily corrected with a small steel wire brush. Within 5 minutes is all back to normal.

    In all the years (must be 12-15 years) I have had it I have brushed it twice, and once have changed the valve, the o-ring, the funnel and the filter, Still makes a great coffee, even with humble Lavazza Rossa.

  44. #44
    Master Maysie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    I have a Neff hob, but it is true. After about 7-8 years the lower part gets darker. This is easily corrected with a small steel wire brush. Within 5 minutes is all back to normal.

    In all the years (must be 12-15 years) I have had it I have brushed it twice, and once have changed the valve, the o-ring, the funnel and the filter, Still makes a great coffee, even with humble Lavazza Rossa.
    I can live with that.
    New Alessi 9090/3 ordered and on its way.

    Damn this forum. I didn't even know I needed one of these an hour ago!

  45. #45
    Craftsman canuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maysie View Post
    Damn this forum. I didn't even know I needed one of these an hour ago!
    I don’t even drink coffee but it looks good and I have two friends who would likely enjoy it’s use.... so correct... damn this forum!

  46. #46
    Master Ticker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maysie View Post
    I can live with that.
    New Alessi 9090/3 ordered and on its way.

    Damn this forum. I didn't even know I needed one of these an hour ago!
    Many a quid or two I've spent by reading a G & D thread.....

  47. #47
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    At the time of posting Amazon have two Alessi 9090 6 cup pots to sell at £64.32...link.

    I've just ordered mine. Sorry this didn't appear earlier, OP.

    Edit and update Now back to £111.00

    6 cup arrived yesterday...and I've used it twice. Very impressed that the seal works straight away as every new Bialetti seals I've had took about three uses to bed in properly. It's easier to use too and produces the coffee in a shorter time, IMO...but I haven't timed it. The coffee and water quantities I was using with my 6 cup Bialetti transferred across to the Alessi, but I'm going to try a slightly finer grind the next time I use it.


    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Thanks again, Franco...I've now placed an order. Here are the details from the Amazon.it checkout page:

    Total payment: GBP 119.60

    Let's hope that it all works out. I can't believe that it won't and that price is significantly better than anything I can find in the UK.
    And the 10 cup arrived today. Well done Amazon.it who simply stuck a label on the box and sent it (undented and not ripped or torn) through their delivery chain. With Amazon.co.uk I'm pretty sure that I'd have had another load of cardboard to recycle.

  48. #48
    Craftsman jimmy_lazers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fraz01 View Post
    I'm interested in this as well actually. I'm actually currently using a Sainsbury's one which I bought on a whim after wanting a change from my Aeropress.

    It seems to do the job quite well but I feel like I'd like a better quality one.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    A little OT, but how did you find the Aeropress and what prompted you to move away from it?

    I have to say I've always been intrigued by the thought of a coffee press from a chap who's other notable invention was a frisbee...

  49. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Heads UP!

    At the time of posting Amazon have two Alessi 9090 6 cup pots to sell at £64.32...link.


    I've just ordered mine. Sorry this didn't appear earlier, OP.


    Edit and update Now back to £111.00
    Thanks for this, ordered (at reduced price) and arrived yesterday. First impressions: -

    An excellent piece of kit, nicely designed and engineered.

    Spent 10 minutes working out how to open it but far better system than the screw ones I've had in the past.

    Six cup model is a good size for me (and it will be only me drinking the coffee) - makes 3 of my usual small cups or a standard mug. The reducer is a nice addition but doubt I'll use it much.

    The instructions recommend using on lowest heat (I use gas) - different to what I've done before when I thought (probably wrongly) good to blast through as quickly as possible. Anyway, made a decent cup even though I only had 6-month out of date (though unopened) coffee in the cupboard. I'll get something better today!

  50. #50
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    I use mine on a ceramic hob, go for quite a high heat.

    A couple of times I've lunched it out and forgotten about it, no damage to pot or hob

    I think the low heat recommendation is purely for cosmetic purposes regarding keeping the shiny steel finish pristine
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

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