Just returned from a cycling trip. I realised that the whole trip can be done using cycling paths. No need to interfere with other traffic. I was wondering how things are in other countries. Great minds think alike, I suppose. This is what was published on a Dutch website this morning...
And this: https://www.hollandcyclingroutes.com
Last edited by thieuster; 3rd June 2018 at 08:57.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Congratulations with your fun trip!Originally Posted by thieuster
Incomparable.
Not like this. By and large seperate cycling paths are incidental at best.
Things improve a bit on gravel but that is accidental because motorised traffic tends to not frequent unmetalled public roads.
The Netherlands are a cycling paradise. Well, off season work days. It gets a congested drama with nice weather during weekends. But then that is the same in France, Spain, Italy on famous climbs.
Yup. These electric bikes are more than annoying (insert stronger language). All older people, mostly pensionados, riding a bike at a higher speed than they've ever done before. With white knuckles on the grips, bewildered looks and man and woman in unisex clothing. We can spot them from miles - or sometimes not... On approach I see two grey-haired people at a distance and when I look again, they're so close... near collisions.
The emergency deps of Dutch hospitals are inundated with those people: broken hips, skull fracture (helmets are a no-no here...). There was a rise in the number of cyclists turning to the emergency deps of hospitals. At first, younger people with the phones were blamed for the rise of casualties... On second look, it appeared that it are the owners of electric bikes who are tumbling over/crash at high speed!
Menno
The European Commission have just announced that mandatory insurance for pedelecs may be just around the corner although individual states can opt out.
https://www.bikebiz.com/news/bikes-n...nsurance-in-eu
Electric bikes are not.
They are mopeds. Just silent electric ones.
The token obligaton of pedalling is ... token.
A case of repeating itselfs for the umpteenth time.
Even during the 1930s there was a light 98cc engine assited bicycle later moped class.
After ww2 this became the 49cc class which first had mandatory pedal set.
We saw the slow mopeds with the Solex. Again same thing repeated with the ´snorfiets´.
No doubt more examples can be found; time and again leading to the exact same issues.
Currently the electric moped are creating friction on every side. Over here they are used as electric off road motorcycles. The electric mtbs are more motorcycle than my 1976 Fantic Regolartá which at the time was an FIM Enduro events bike!! Wider tires, larger diameter rims, way longer way more sophisticated suspension and with rider + motor givng some 1 KloWatt surprisingly fast.
It is just a matter of time before these ´bicycles´ will cause huge issues for real cyclists.
A curious phenomena over here is that the e-mtb gets women into mtb events. It totally baffles me that organisers are allowing them to compete in the same event altough in a separat category obviously.
It is sold as positive because now the wives/gfs can come too.
In practice however it means the blokes cannot enjoy heir hobby and those who came to enjoy themselves without the female are still bogged down behind the women who have more power than skill with the latter multiplied by the weight of the e-mopeds.
An additional issue is the limted autonomy. Because o the bird brains using them the batteries rarely last beyng 50 kms and then the women pose road blocks, need be repatriated ór the accompanying male gets the spare battery from his!! backpack...
Imo it is a case of the industry promoting a lucrative business and not caring about shooting the cyclists in the feet.
Last edited by Huertecilla; 3rd June 2018 at 10:32.
When I lived in Holland I cycled to Uni and back every day, come rain or shine. (5miles)
I’d love it if we had the same infrastructure here and I could get to work for free, sadly just not the same.
Last edited by -Ally-; 3rd June 2018 at 11:22.
I ride a pedelec, am a pensioner and have grey hair. I’m not afraid of speed, have not fallen off my bike and don’t wear Lycra. When I retired, I cycled to Spain from Sussex to visit my daughter via a long distance cycle route called “the velodyssey”. Much of the route is on cycle paths and canal towpaths. Couldn’t have done it after 3 knee ops but the pedelec (it is not a moped) provided help when needed. Most of the time I cycled without power.
My apologies for being a ”pensionista” Your turn will come!
Most electric bikes assistance is dependant on power required using torque sensors and are limited to 15mph so your description is way off the mark
My girlfriend suffers with lots of health issues and having a pedelec means she can enjoy getting out and about, she is not dangerous on the road/paths at all
Jesus christ, get over yourselves
Copenhagen was well served with cycling paths and there were bikes everywhere also In Helsinki yesterday it was the same
15mph? About 25km/hr. Yes theoretically. But the manufacturers here (e.g. Stella Bike) write on their website that it's 'theoretical' and that the bikes can do up to 40 km/hr. I think that there's a difference (regulations etc) between the UK and NL.
There are benefits, but cold facts (numbers) show that especially older people are involved in accidents with e-bikes here in Holland. Not saying it's their own fault - as said it is sometimes hard to estimate their when you see a bike (...) coming towards you. But a fact is that 52 people who rode an electric bike last year, got killed. The article doesn't say if they would have been killed when riding a 'normal' bike. There are currently 2.1 million electric bikes here in Holland. On 16 million people, that's a lot! Let's say England alone has 50 million inhabitants, that's 6.4 million electric bikes...
Newest here are the so-called Speed Pedalecs with a theoretical top speed up to 50 kms/hr. Rule for these is that they're regarded to be an electric moped, including wearing a helmet, a moped's license and being banned from the cycling paths.
M
Last edited by thieuster; 4th June 2018 at 06:30.
Why is wearing a helmet while riding a bike a no no over there?
It’s a cultural thing, very rare to see any commuters with helmets, mostly those in Lycra with a racer style are the ones with helmets. I guess it’s uncool is why, after all mostly on cycle paths. My other half is Dutch and just laughed when I suggested getting a helmet (living in Amsterdam)
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I just find it odd to see a rant about how high speed bikes lead to injuries, yet nobody seems bothered about taking such a simple safety precaution. does the fault lie with the rider going faster than they should, or because they were simply too cool or whatnot to wear a helmet and minimize the risk of a skull fracture.
I'd be interested to see the research proving it is the electric bikes though, or whether it is just a rant from someone who clearly has a dislike for them.
I don’t have a problem with them to be honest, haven’t seen that many accidents involving bicycles there yet. I would add for those advocating the cycle paths, complaining about the breaks in the cycle paths at junctions that cyclists get priority over turning cars. But they tend to also stop at red lights too.
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I do and hugely so.
But then I live in the mountains and on umetalled roads, worse still single tracks they ARE a menace. The users can go up steep inclines at speeds even half gods are not capable of as they have 350 to 700 Watt extra propelling them.
Even pedalling themselves at a measly 150 Watt they still would outclimb Sagan! This without much if any skill on a bike. You do the math.
Fair enough, I was specifically referring to in the city, I think the scooters on the cycle paths (legal in NL) are more of a menace at times. I think if that happened in the UK, everyone bar the cyclists would be happy. I would have been when I was on a bike in London
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Electric bikes (the legal ones in UK anyway) are no more dangerous than any other bikes, they are usually being overtaken by road bikes, on the flat anyway
I just can't see why riders climbing quicker than you (with some assistance) makes them a 'menace' ?
Personally I have a problem with arrogant, wheezy, chubby blokes in full Lycra who are getting on a bit thinking they are Bradley Wiggins on their feather light ultra expensive road bikes, but each to their own :)
I think that this is exactly the difference between Dutch and British bikes (not cyclists). 'Ours' appear to be allowed to be faster, hence the speed difference and the cumulation of accidents overhere.they are usually being overtaken by road bikes, on the flat anyway
Menno
IMO paths are sketchy outside of cities in the UK. Might say there is one, but often it is in a terrible state, or interrupted. That’s true in my part of Wales anyway.
What Menno writes is that traveling at speeds beyond their competence is the danger.
Same thing over here on steep climbs compounded by speed differences compounded by a female privileged sense of right of way. It takes skill to overtake safely not an electric motorbike.
Btw do rethink that ´some assistance´ as the help is easily more, up to tripling, the rider´s input. It is more accurate to write that the rider assists the motor.
Pedalec. Time to consult a former colleague who owns one. A real-world update.
She rides here bike from home to work and back. A distance of 42 kms single trip. Her average speed is 38 kms/hr... And yes, I've seen the display on her bike, confirming this. In fact it was even a little more than 38 km/hr. She owns the bike for almost 4 yrs now and has done 33k kms/ 20k miles on it. Chain, gears, engine, battery (3x) are replaced. And a lot of rubber as well. She never had an accident, but: "Certainly, I've used my can of luck by now..." Lots of near-misses with kids riding to school, tourists and other commuters.
38 km/hr average... wow.
Menno
The speed is the issue. I've no problem with them giving assistance to 15mph as legally allowed here in the UK. A quick trawl of forums though shows that modding is popular to maintain assistance beyond 15mph or adding twist grip/lever throttle (i.e. not pedal assist). I've read a few people saying they are great because you can use them to get back from the pub without worrying about losing your licence!
They aren't that popular yet in the UK but the first modified bike to be involved in a fatality or incident with kids will be Daily Mail headline news. We are slow to catch up in the UK when it comes to cycling but legislation and insurance will be on the way. If they get more people cycling and out of cars then I'm all for them but it's the modded ones that concern me. Most of us plod along at around 12-15mph anyway so the regular ones I don't see as an issue.
Last edited by benny.c; 5th June 2018 at 15:11.
That's exactly my point, combined with the fact that these bikes allow you to go faster than you've done in years! Here, you need a moped license to ride one. A moped license is included in a car license for most of us (there are separate moped licenses for people without a 'normal' driver's license). In real terms: when you're caught (drunk) from the pub to your house on a moped/pedalec AND you have a pdriver's license for a car as well, you can lose both in one single streak...
Menno
Just had a look at that. One for me and my boys in a couple of years.
Looks like our legislators need to make their mind up then. Need a moped license to ride one, but it actually isn’t a moped, as it has no requirements for road test, insurance, indicators, license plate etc..
Is that correct?
I kept a blog for the family at home. Here is the link: www.e-rider.eu
A great way to kick off your retirement!
Ofcourse it is; ALL of them whether modded or not; just silent electric ones with the being silent ádding to the risk.
The rest is simply semantics, politics and regulations.
The bicycle with motor will get the user faster over cycle paths and the silent problem of that needs no cristal ball.
I know this causes cognitive dissonance to the point where people I mention it to reflexively reach for a compelling counter argument, but I might mention that Japan has an huge amount of cycle paths. I use them every day to cycle to work and back, in the world's biggest city. These special facilities are called...
"paths"
There appear to be few issues, and the proportion of people who cycle is immense. No one is overweight either, and people live to a ripe old age. Possibly this is related to the everyday exercise, and the simple and safe ability for everyone regardless of age to pop on a bicycle and run an errand without special equipment, shoes, hats or having to ride in the road.
It still surprises me all the time that other cities insist on merging cyclists not with walkers, but with cars, and then try to solve the obvious issues this brings.
Last edited by Tokyo Tokei; 17th July 2018 at 12:20.
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