Ketosis

[mk2driver]

I tip my hat Sir, really well done buddy. I know through first hand experience how hard it can be to lose a significant amount of weight, these days I'm a bit of a fitness freak and am currently looking at my Macros', yours sound pretty well spot on, you are also spot on with the cake and pizza thing too. Keep it up mate

Thanks mate, I’m spending plenty of time in the gym as well which is good!

[mk2driver]

You get fat from eating more calories than your body needs.

However, carbs, fat and protein get into the blood stream at different rates. The faster it gets into our blood, the sooner we have excess energy in our blood. So if we have too much energy in our blood stream it gets stored as body fat.

Carbs get dumped faster into your blood stream than fat or protein.

That's why eating 500 calories of donuts will be different in terms of eating 500 calories of salmon and asparagus in terms of body fat.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Agreed, I wouldn’t say I eat a lot of carbs though and those I do eat tend to come from whole grains, beans, wholewheat parts, brown rice etc. Remember I eat 1500 calories a day and aim for 40% of that to be carbs so only 600 calories

The issue I have with fats on a calorie controlled regime is they are very high on calories

Even healthy fats including nuts, healthy oils, avocado etc are much higher in calories in terms of density than the protein/carb equivalent

As such I find to keep my appetite at bay 20% is fairly good at the minute. It’s not completely strict but it’s a target

I to have some very low carb and higher protein days but still tend to limit fat where possible

[Neilw3030]

Well end of week one on a low carb diet, it’s been a struggle, mostly to find low carb food, but 9 and half pounds lose I’m pleased with. Let’s see what week two brings.

[Ashtennisguru]

Well end of week one on a low carb diet, it’s been a struggle, mostly to find low carb food, but 9 and half pounds lose I’m pleased with. Let’s see what week two brings.

Without wishing to overly dampen your spirits, if you've lost 9 1/2lbs in a week by going low carb, then a) it'll be pretty much all water and b) it won't be sustainable. Of course I may have misunderstood your post or missed something from earlier in the thread?

[stefaulkner]

I did the Cambridge Diet a couple of years ago, which is essentially a program that puts the bidy into Ketosis. I had amazing results, losing nearly 3 stone in as many months. Only problem is, I never thought ahead and after coming off the diet, instead of monitoring and controlling my eating, I slipped into my old, bad eating habits and soon found myself weighing what I did previously. If I try it again, I’m going to concentrate on a longer term change in eating habits and introduce more exercise when I feel better from the weight loss.

[Neilw3030]

Without wishing to overly dampen your spirits, if you've lost 9 1/2lbs in a week by going low carb, then a) it'll be pretty much all water and b) it won't be sustainable. Of course I may have misunderstood your post or missed something from earlier in the thread?

Oh I’m under no illusion that that is the case, I’m being very strict about what I eat and keeping carbs down to 30-40 grams per day and around 1000 calories. with some Relaxing of diet at weekend and two beers a day, I’m going to get back on it Monday.
My target loss is 2 stone, and I’m going to change my diet completely when I reach my goal. I have found this easier than I expected but it’s hard going, when I go shopping for lunch during the week I struggle to find low carb and low sugar food. Cheese, ham,tuna and salad quickly becomes dull, and sausage and bacon for breakfast has lost its appeal somewhat.
But I’m determined to make it work.

[Liner33]

Oh I’m under no illusion that that is the case, I’m being very strict about what I eat and keeping carbs down to 30-40 grams per day and around 1000 calories. with some Relaxing of diet at weekend and two beers a day, I’m going to get back on it Monday.
My target loss is 2 stone, and I’m going to change my diet completely when I reach my goal. I have found this easier than I expected but it’s hard going, when I go shopping for lunch during the week I struggle to find low carb and low sugar food. Cheese, ham,tuna and salad quickly becomes dull, and sausage and bacon for breakfast has lost its appeal somewhat.
But I’m determined to make it work.

I've been doing keto diet since 5th Feb non-stop , last four weeks have been -3.5 lbs, -4 lbs, -5.5 lbs and -3 pounds, I had the big losses in the first few weeks as well , same as you 30-40gr carb and around 900-1000 kcals per day. Only had one week where I didnt lose and that was when I had man flu , guess cortisol stymied it as I put on 2 lbs , the following week I lost 8 .

If you are bored buy a recipe book I can reccomend this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Omegamanic]

Eating 1000 cals has little to do with a Ketosis diet. Anyone eating 1000 cals a day and being fairly active will see considerable weight loss - but it will slow, along with the metabolism, and then the activity level.

Done for too long this usually leads to issues with food, and possible problems with eating and digestion. I have a very good friend who works with women who have been on crazy diets over the years to help them try and introduce a more sustainable diet and relationship with food.

[Liner33]

Eating 1000 cals has little to do with a Ketosis diet. Anyone eating 1000 cals a day and being fairly active will see considerable weight loss - but it will slow, along with the metabolism, and then the activity level.

Done for too long this usually leads to issues with food, and possible problems with eating and digestion. I have a very good friend who works with women who have been on crazy diets over the years to help them try and introduce a more sustainable diet and relationship with food.

Lots of people do say that but there is no evidence to support it and plenty to the contrary and plenty of people do this diet for decades it is not a crazy diet at all. The Standard American diet is a crazy diet

For anyone interested in the facts I suggest you look up Dr Stephen Pinney or Tim Noakes on youtube as a start, there is still plenty to question but will give you a clear idea of why this way of eating works , how it works and managing long term on it and will dispel a lot of the misinformation there is about it

But ultimately the place to discuss such things is not a watch forum , I always think that when I see an ugly watch I dont have the right to tell another man what to spend his money on, I certainly don't have the right to tell another person what to put in their mouths

[Saint-Just]

If you don’t want people’s opinions don’t post about what you do. Especially about diet on a watch forum.

[Liner33]

If you don’t want people’s opinions don’t post about what you do. Especially about diet on a watch forum.

The problem is many opinions about don't come from a position of education of the subject

I posted as someone was told that weight loss either slows down or significantly reduces when you adopt a ketogenic lifestyle, it certainly does not in my case.

Once your body is adapted to burning fat for fuel the research suggests it doesn't care where it gets that fat from, some from diet and some from adipose, the more adipose you have the lower you can reduce your calorie intake forcing your body to make up the shortfall.

This is how we are fundamentally designed to function and without being able to do this we would as a species have died out many thousands of years ago

[Saint-Just]

The problem is many opinions about don't come from a position of education of the subject

I posted as someone was told that weight loss either slows down or significantly reduces when you adopt a ketogenic lifestyle, it certainly does not in my case.

Once your body is adapted to burning fat for fuel the research suggests it doesn't care where it gets that fat from, some from diet and some from adipose, the more adipose you have the lower you can reduce your calorie intake forcing your body to make up the shortfall.

This is how we are fundamentally designed to function and without being able to do this we would as a species have died out many thousands of years ago

Quite right. We are designed to survive, which is why when food is abundant we store in a highly efficient form. When times are leaner, ketosis takes over and we can continue to function, using the reserves we have made.
But that is precisely why all diets designed to make you burn those reserves fast fail: What your reptilian brain understands is not that you want to burn the excess weight you're carrying. IT understands that food is scarce. It doesn't "enjoy" the ketosis, because to him it means that food scarcity is close to famin and as such threatens its survival. So as soon as you stop, its first and foremost survival instincts make him store as much energy as it can to rebuild the reserves you have just burnt.

Therefore your alternative once you achieved your desired weight is either to keep your body in ketosis by eating the lipids it cannot get from your body anymore, or to start eating a very, very strict diet in order to only eat what you will burn in the day. Anything else and you'll pack the fat again.

However, we are not designed to function in a permanent ketosis. We CAN function like that but I don't believe it is suitable. It is a survival mechanism, not a lifestyle.

[Omegamanic]

Lots of people do say that but there is no evidence to support it and plenty to the contrary and plenty of people do this diet for decades it is not a crazy diet at all. The Standard American diet is a crazy diet

For anyone interested in the facts I suggest you look up Dr Stephen Pinney or Tim Noakes on youtube as a start, there is still plenty to question but will give you a clear idea of why this way of eating works , how it works and managing long term on it and will dispel a lot of the misinformation there is about it

But ultimately the place to discuss such things is not a watch forum , I always think that when I see an ugly watch I dont have the right to tell another man what to spend his money on, I certainly don't have the right to tell another person what to put in their mouths

There is lots of evidence to support it.

What group of people reduce body fat to the lowest levels again and again, as planned, and within set time scales? Dieters or bodybuilders?

I do not need to read their “opinions” to know that they are fundamentally flawed. When my daily requirements are between 1400 to 1800 calories sitting in a chair and not moving, then something drastic in my metabolism has to change. Ketosis is simply the name given to using fat (ketones) in the blood, rather than carbs (glucose/glycogen) for energy. The average man is estimated to need 2500 calories per day - there is a very good reason that VLCD’s are restricted to 12 weeks under full medical supervision.

Yes, you can use body fat for energy, and yes if you have more of it you can use this. However, unless you are obese, this will slow quite quickly. You will also notice that people on such low cal diets, sit more, blink less, carry out less activity, report to have less energy etc. etc.

Any way, you obviously know more, so good luck with it.

[Glamdring]

This article was interesting:
6 things you must know before you try the keto diet

http://flip.it/rXOnHz

[abryant64]

I couldn't stick with keto, but I'm doing intermittent fasting at the moment and finding that very helpful.

[yumma]

Just had my four week weigh in an progress pic’s with my nutritionalist. I’ve been on 2250 calories per day with around 210g Carbs, 190g Protein and 70g fat. In four weeks I’ve lost 2” round my waist already, only four pounds off but it is pure fat loss and if anything some gains in lean tissue, eating more carbs than ever, never felt better. I did low carb last year, this Macro’s eating plan is a pleasure and yielding great results.

[Omegamanic]

That looks very close to ideal macros.

Keep it up.

I finally managed a return to the gym tonight, and I’ll be following quite similar macros.

[Neilw3030]

Two weeks now a 14lbs lost, only thing I’m cheating on is couple beers on the weekend. But damn it’s tough.
Really feeling run down, tired, nauseous, dizzy spells and generally dull, seems like this is the start of Keto flu, but I’m determined to work through it. Seems like I need to work on my electrolyte levels so off to Holland and Barrett in morning, then to the in laws for a roast, minus potatoes and desert, ooh I can’t wait.

[33JS]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...98919726879648

[33JS]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...98919726879648

Sustainability is the issue with Keto. Its worth watching the James Smith Ketogenic Diet video as he's very straight talking.

[Estoril-5]

Bit of a thread resurrection - how is everyone getting on especially since the pandemic?

[snowman]

A friend of mine is doing this.

She's lost 12Kg in about 3 months, but she says she feels so much healthier for the no-carbs diet.

I have to say, she looks 10 years younger, slimmer, obviously, but more energetic and happier.

It certainly seems to have agreed with her.

M

[yumma]

Bit of a thread resurrection - how is everyone getting on especially since the pandemic?

I had a howler during the Pandemic whilst WFH. I didn’t workout barely at all, ate too much comfort food and snacks, plus drunk too much wine. The result; understandably, was a gain of 2.5 stone. About 3 months ago I went back to counting calories and macros; plus utilised intermittent fasting at times and have shifted 1.5 stone. By Christmas I should be back to usual. Oh, and I have completely cut out booze completely which has helped mentally as well as physically.

Keep it up all, perseverance will get you where you want to be. Make it sustainable and not torturous by following any faddy diet which omits key nutrients.

[Mj2k]

Bit of a thread resurrection - how is everyone getting on especially since the pandemic?

I’m at my heaviest I’ve ever been - lockdown was not kind on me & I was lazy. Ate too much comfort food, drank too much.

Lost 2 kg a fortnight ago, rubbish week last week & ended up with eating out at the Indian, fish & chips and then a large papa johns, all before Friday!

I gained it all back but dropped half of it again.

The next few weeks are going to be very difficult as we have no kitchen for 5 weeks as it has been ripped out. I have a combi microwave or a selection of bbqs but limited prep ability & most things boxed up. And only a tiny fridge in the garage.

Thinking chicken shish from my kebab shop a few times a week, as it’s chicken & salad. Maybe eat the pitta every other time.

Only the 2nd night and already fed up with not having a kitchen as scratch cooking has been my way to relax & unwind after work.

[eagletower]

Could anyone recommend a good weighing scale? one with that measures fat , muscle mass etc

Ideally one that has an app so I can see any progress at a glance

thanks

[Saint-Just]

Could anyone recommend a good weighing scale? one with that measures fat , muscle mass etc

Ideally one that has an app so I can see any progress at a glance

thanks

Renpho is good. available on Amazon.

[Stanford]

I’m at my heaviest I’ve ever been - lockdown was not kind on me & I was lazy. Ate too much comfort food, drank too much.

Lost 2 kg a fortnight ago, rubbish week last week & ended up with eating out at the Indian, fish & chips and then a large papa johns, all before Friday!

I gained it all back but dropped half of it again.

The next few weeks are going to be very difficult as we have no kitchen for 5 weeks as it has been ripped out. I have a combi microwave or a selection of bbqs but limited prep ability & most things boxed up. And only a tiny fridge in the garage.

Thinking chicken shish from my kebab shop a few times a week, as it’s chicken & salad. Maybe eat the pitta every other time.

Only the 2nd night and already fed up with not having a kitchen as scratch cooking has been my way to relax & unwind after work.

Tandoori mixed grill was my fall back when the rest of the family were having 'proper' curries.

[eagletower]

Renpho is good. available on Amazon.

Thank you!

[Halitosis]

I did the Atkins/low carb diet a number of years ago and got down to my lightest in decades. Astonishing and rapid results losing the first stone inside a fortnight and kept it up for a year or so before gradually sliding at weekends and then giving it up all together. Inevitably the weight all came back.
As appears to be the case for most folk, it may be a good kick-starter but committing 'for life' is a hard ask.
Just realised the link to my user name too
Mrs H and I have also had reasonable success doing the 5/2 fasting diet.
After 50+ years on the planet I think my personal issue is an irrational fear of getting hungry so I fill my face before hunger even arrives. I'm actually considering hypnosis to address this - who knows, it might be my silver bullet!

[Mj2k]

Tandoori mixed grill was my fall back when the rest of the family were having 'proper' curries.

It is one of my favourites. Unfortunately I like it with a keema naan & vegetable curry.

Used to order it madras strength at my local. It was beautiful however the coughing it used to cause as the sizzler got pushed through the restaurant has prevented me ordering it since the pandemic!

[Essexman]

Make it sustainable and not torturous by following any faddy diet which omits key nutrients.

You know you wrote that in a thread about Keto diet right?

[yumma]

You know you wrote that in a thread about Keto diet right?

Yes, it’s not sustainable long term and is a fad diet. It ultimately works on the exact premise as every diet ever; calorie deficit. It is just better if you eat a varied diet composed of all macro nutrients.

[MrBanks]

I was on a strict keto diet from Jan this year until July and lost around 18kg. It really transformed my life and I felt so much better (as you would expect losing that much weight). I came off the diet completely but feel like my body adjusted really well to having very little carbs so I'm now considering going back on on diet that limits my carbs to <100g a day and cutting out sugar completely again.

[dougair]

Sounds like an awful fad to me. Surely just exercise and take in less calories than you’re burning?!

[Estoril-5]

I was on a strict keto diet from Jan this year until July and lost around 18kg.

I came off the diet completely

When you came off the diet how did your weight fare?

[snowman]

It does seem a bit of a faff having to check the carbs and sugar in everything and keeping below the limits seems a real challenge (Apparently Gin has zero carbs, but I hate gin! )

All the main exponents of this seem to be in the US and the focus is on how much fructose starch (I think it was?) is in their fast food and drinks.

As someone who doesn't eat or drink rubbish like that except on rare occasions, I can't say their arguments felt that relevant to me, but my friend was a pretty healthy eater (probably more than me). Having looked (as a result of her enthusiasm), it is surprising what contains significant amounts of sugar and carbs (I rarely eat bread or potatoes anymore, but that predates my awareness of this).

I suspect, in her case, that the weight gain was because she wasn't exercising as much as usual during lockdown (she worked from home beforehand, like me) and simply wasn't burning as many calories as normal, but it's certainly been effective in her losing weight and she says she feels much better for the revised diet too.

I could do with losing a half to full stone maybe, but I've been losing a bit of weight through exercise.

M

[guinea]

I did the Atkins/low carb diet a number of years ago and got down to my lightest in decades. Astonishing and rapid results losing the first stone inside a fortnight and kept it up for a year or so before gradually sliding at weekends and then giving it up all together. Inevitably the weight all came back.
As appears to be the case for most folk, it may be a good kick-starter but committing 'for life' is a hard ask.

It's harder than that. In fact it's almost impossible.

The odds for people who have lost 20kgs or more keeping the weight off in perpetuity are more or less zero.

The body does a couple of things when it loses weight. The first is that it becomes a lot more efficient. 2 people eating the same food and doing the same exercises will burn different amount of calories is one has lost weight. The difference can be quite large. Secondly, the body sends far more hunger signals to someone who's lost weight. Often these aren't sated until 500-600 more calories are consumed. Putting these together you end up with perhaps 7-800 excess calories being consumed a day. That could be 1kg a week of weight gain. People can monitor and fight the hunger for a while, but years later it still exists and breaks pretty much everyone in the end.

People get really motivated and lose weight, but it's emotionally and physically draining to maintain it forever.

When people talk simplistically (well meaning or otherwise) about calories in vs calories out, lifestyle change, being lazy or uneducated, or even having psychological problems they miss the fact that even if all of those things were fixed the person is still going to get fat again.

Unfortunately we live in a world where food choices for the poor are horrific, where diets are a $billion industry and healthcare providers aren't following the science. There are loads of good ways too lose weight, keto is great, vlcds work, 5:2, surgery etc. Unfortunately there are no long term proven services for maintenance.

I believe that people should try to lose weight, just be aware that it is cyclical and don't be too downbeat when it goes "wrong".

[MrBanks]

When you came off the diet how did your weight fare?

I've put around 1.5kg on since July. I overindulged quite a bit over summer.

[Estoril-5]

I've put around 1.5kg on since July. I overindulged quite a bit over summer.

i'd say that was a result! good job.

[Essexman]

Yes, it’s not sustainable long term and is a fad diet. It ultimately works on the exact premise as every diet ever; calorie deficit. It is just better if you eat a varied diet composed of all macro nutrients.

Just making sure.
I 100% agree that is not a great way to diet for all the reasons you list. In fact I've seen people start on Keto, have good results, comes off keto, put on the KG back on, go back to keto as it was so good, repeat. The problem being that that first big drop was so easy that they want it again, and again. The keto trap.
I guess the only place I think keto has is when someone has to drop their weight for say surgery within a specific time frame for medical reasons.

[wileeeeeey]

[MrBanks]

I can understand why people think it's a fad, but it helped me lose weight, get my blood pressure and cholesterol more stable as well and change my eating habits. I don't see that as a negative. Providing you don't go back to old habits, it's worked out very well.

[Omegamanic]

It's harder than that. In fact it's almost impossible.

The odds for people who have lost 20kgs or more keeping the weight off in perpetuity are more or less zero.

The body does a couple of things when it loses weight. The first is that it becomes a lot more efficient. 2 people eating the same food and doing the same exercises will burn different amount of calories is one has lost weight. The difference can be quite large. Secondly, the body sends far more hunger signals to someone who's lost weight. Often these aren't sated until 500-600 more calories are consumed. Putting these together you end up with perhaps 7-800 excess calories being consumed a day. That could be 1kg a week of weight gain. People can monitor and fight the hunger for a while, but years later it still exists and breaks pretty much everyone in the end.

People get really motivated and lose weight, but it's emotionally and physically draining to maintain it forever.

When people talk simplistically (well meaning or otherwise) about calories in vs calories out, lifestyle change, being lazy or uneducated, or even having psychological problems they miss the fact that even if all of those things were fixed the person is still going to get fat again.

Unfortunately we live in a world where food choices for the poor are horrific, where diets are a $billion industry and healthcare providers aren't following the science. There are loads of good ways too lose weight, keto is great, vlcds work, 5:2, surgery etc. Unfortunately there are no long term proven services for maintenance.

I believe that people should try to lose weight, just be aware that it is cyclical and don't be too downbeat when it goes "wrong".

Partially true.

“The odds for people who have lost 20kgs or more keeping the weight off in perpetuity are more or less zero.”

I’d say more likely true for anyone who has not maintenaned FFM and relied purely on calorie reduction rather than a change in lifestyle.

“the body sends far more hunger signals to someone who's lost weight”

The body will produce larger amount of ghrelin when there has been a reduction in FFM.

There are many long term proven maintenance models.

Most diets fail and lead to a yo-yo diet effect, simply because they lead to a loss of FFM.

A high or at least higher protein diet leads to satiety. Lowering carb intake is usually highly beneficial for most people. The human body has no biological need for carbohydrates. We need protein to build, replace, or repair all tissue. We need fats to produce all hormones.

Calorie counters allow 4 cals per gram or carbs and protein, but taking Thermo into account the protein works out to 3.6 cals or better for every 4 of carbs. That’s a very easy quick win on a calorie controlled diet.

I know quite a few people that were 10-20kg overweight, but have remained slimmer since having a change of lifestyles. I appreciate that if your not very active and your diet isn’t great, then changing both and maintaining that change is going to be more of a struggle.

Knowingly eating more than 700-800 calories a day more than you need is down to the individual, and easily avoidable without starving yourself, or even feeling hungry - there’s a choice.

[Andyg]

One thing I would like to add which I hope may be helpful to anyone is to download the App 'MyFitnessPal'

Once you get off the Ketosis diet or any crash diet this can really help you find a balanced healthy way of eating.

It is a superb free App, its a little bit of a faff to start as you do need to weigh some food and record what you eat but well worth persevering with, it quickly learns what you eat, so if brekkie is the same day after day you can swipe right to enter todays brekkie the same as yesterdays, or copy across from another date, it also remembers all your foods entered and records what you often have as accompaniments so if your weekly meals are similar it speeds up logging. You can set targets for weight loss, maintaining weight or weight gain and it'll tell you what Macro's and calories you'll need from there. It really is very good, well worth a free download and a little perseverance.

If anyone wants to download the app and wants to connect with me to see what I am eating/recording my MFP profile is yumma01.

Hope this helps.

Another fan of MyFitnessPal here. I used this over about 3 years to drop from 108kg down to 76kg. Now about 4 years later (having retired) I am now at 80Kg, which seems to be a good weight for me as it stopped people asking me if I had been unwell.

Portion control (which is what MyFitnessPal taught me) and lots of physical activities, is the only answer.

[guinea]

Knowingly eating more than 700-800 calories a day more than you need is down to the individual, and easily avoidable without starving yourself, or even feeling hungry - there’s a choice.

You're right, it is down to the individual.

You are wrong about not feeling hungry. Read the science, I've linked it here before. People who have lost a lot of weight need a lot more calories before they feel sated.

The almost permanent hunger and increased calorie efficiency is what causes almost every single dieter who's lost weight to fail long term. It lasts years and years.

The only true way to get thin is not to get obese in the first place.

[Omegamanic]

You're right, it is down to the individual.

You are wrong about not feeling hungry. Read the science, I've linked it here before. People who have lost a lot of weight need a lot more calories before they feel sated.

The almost permanent hunger and increased calorie efficiency is what causes almost every single dieter who's lost weight to fail long term. It lasts years and years.

The only true way to get thin is not to get obese in the first place.

Well, I’m personally 20lbs+ lighter, permanently, and very rarely hungry.

if you are active it’s very easy to require over 2000-2500 Cals as a man. That’s easily enough to set up a day of food without ever feeling hungry, or feeling deprived.

But yes, it’s down to individuals and their control and desires.

[mk2driver]

I lost 4.5 stone over a year in 2018 by watching calories and increasing physical activity by taking up running

I then lost another stone while training for my second marathon - I started to have people ask me if I was ill

I have kept the 4.5 stone off - I eased back in the running due to the impact it was having on home life but a few people have said I look better at this weight

Personally I have managed to go from 17.5 stone to a maintained 13 stone for 3 years now

I still calorie count and have some fluctuations but it’s maintained

[Halitosis]

The only true way to get thin is not to get obese in the first place.

Well that's a bit of a downer - do you espouse this scientific fact to overweight friends and loved ones too, or offer a little encouragement?

[Omegamanic]

This and a few similar papers are worth a read for a better understanding:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6315740/

https://www.nature.com/articles/ejcn2016256

[yumma]

You're right, it is down to the individual.

You are wrong about not feeling hungry. Read the science, I've linked it here before. People who have lost a lot of weight need a lot more calories before they feel sated.

The almost permanent hunger and increased calorie efficiency is what causes almost every single dieter who's lost weight to fail long term. It lasts years and years.

The only true way to get thin is not to get obese in the first place.

Sorry but I beg to differ, I lost 30kg around 17 years ago going from obese to normal body weight, over the years I put on around 9kg which was pretty much all lean tissue (muscle). I maintained a 30 inch waist and low body fat percentage throughout most of that time. I did put on a lot of weight during the pandemic as I stopped training/Calisthenics and was comfort eating, in part down to anxiety and depression. I have got my head straight again and am half way back to where I want to be and am determined that by early 2022 will be back in reasonable shape. Throughout my dieting which took a year, I never felt hungry as I was eating a lot of bulk but very little calorie dense foods, no processed foods and sensible nutritional foods. When I was 45 I was around 10 percent body fat. I cannot see any reason not to be the same at 50. Dieting is peculiar in that it is both one of the easiest and hardest things we as people can do. The basic premise and mathematics of weight loss by calorie deficit over time is easy and precise, the execution and will power to repeat the process week after week is damn hard.

Keep going all, you can get exactly what you want if you stay committed.