Reply With QuoteI had considered that...but chances are next one will go wrong too!! Will persevere. I am definitely in the trial and error phase.Originally Posted by Raffe
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You know what? Save your self the disappointment, throw the dough out and fix up a new one. Not too late for tonight.
I had considered that...but chances are next one will go wrong too!! Will persevere. I am definitely in the trial and error phase.
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My trial and error phase lasted about six weeks, then came another six weeks with acceptable outcomes, then I got it under control. Keep trying. Don't overdose on the yeast, don't overknead (I don't knead at all).
Knocked it back. Reduced the volume. I think I over kneaded for sure. Will ball it up in a couple of hours. Then 4 hours later will fire the oven up...
If I can have acceptable outcomes in 6 weeks I will be very happy with that. I am sure they will be nowhere near your efforts!
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Why shouldn't you achieve the same outcome? I baked my first pizza less than six months ago.
I didn't realise that...well there is hope then!
Not saying there aren’t any issues but I haven’t observed any and I’ve been using it 18-24 months now. You could alway use both and see if there were any significant discrepancies in quantities.
I’ve just played with both apps and for 7 * 220 balls, it’s ~950g flour and 1.4g yeast for a 8h 21°c proof. So 4g would be a massive overkill
I’m aware Pitch and Raffe are using slightly different techniques and experimenting with flours, I’m taking a pragmatic approach where I get consistency with minimal effort hence using a Kenwood mixer.
Take Pizza App+, set it for any number of dough balls at any weight. Use any period of RT leavening, IDY yeast. Now add the CT option. Start with CT time at 0 - nothing has changed. Now add 1 h of CT leavening, and suddenly the required amount of yeast jumps by about 50%. How does that make sense? The results become completely random when you use the BIGA setting. Try switching between yeast types and see what the results do.
Hmmm yes it jumps, is it an issue I’m not convinced
I can see that if you are going to cold proof at 4°c you would retard the growth and need to use more yeast, it is unlikely you would cold proof for less than 18-24h minimum.
7 * 220g @ 8h rt 20° = 1.4g idy
+ 1h ct 4° = 2.54g idy
+ 12h ct 4° = 2.04g idy
+ 18h ct 4° = 1.86g idy
+ 24h ct 4° = 1.7g idy
In real world terms these don’t seem excessive to me, I have used the app for 24-72h ct proofing multiple times without issue.
Could there be an issue / could there be a better recipe or app certainly, my own experience tells me that the app provides good results, results better than onni’s original recipe.
I recommend the app to beginners as it’s an easy way to scale up or down and play with ct and rt proofing perhaps it’s not the app for those who are already comfortable with these aspects?
Ask me again after I’ve eaten today’s efforts :-)
Longer proofing always requires less yeast, no matter if you do accelerated proofing at RT or slower at CT. So that the app suggests 20% more yeast when you prolong the proofing by 24 hours is a joke, right?
And by the way, the error is only when using dry yeast. If you set it to fresh yeast, any additional proofing time (CT or RT) will reduce the yeast amount.
Last edited by Raffe; 5th April 2020 at 13:44.
I can’t tell you if it’s a joke, is there a characteristic of dry yeast that requires additional yeast for ct, I don’t know.
I don’t have fridge capacity or sufficient flour to experiment at present because short of making two batches and testing how would you tell?
Are you saying that you have used the pizzapp quantities and had a significant failure or, that you prefer the outcome from another method?
As I’ve already stated I have had good results from the app that have been documented on this thread already.
No there are no such characteristics, longer proof always requires less yeast that shorter proof. These are simply programming errors (it gets even worse when you look at the BIGA option, the output becomes completely random).
I didn't have significant failures because I wouldn't use quantities in my recipes which are based on obvious errors.
My point was that Pizza App+ contains multiple significant errors. That said, I still use it because of its convenience on the mobile phone but I am very conscious of the flaws before using app output for my dough.
In my opinion and experience you are making this sound a significantly larger issue than it is, I have not used BIGA only idy and my experience is that the results using the app figures are perfectly acceptable and have not (yet) resulted in failure.
I’m stressing this point because my experience of those new to pizza making seem to struggle a bit with dough making and I think quite a number of the posts in this thread align with that. I would not like them to get the impression that using this app would lead to failure, perfect results perhaps not, but good enough for me and my happy guests.
That said once I have more flour and fridge space to spare I’m going to try two versions to see if I can see any significant differences
Is 50% too much yeast going to make a significant difference? Everything else being equal, it will be very noticeable. Will it render the dough unusable? Maybe, maybe not - definetly not to the same tune as using a tenfold amount as in the example a few posts up.
That doesn't change the fact that the app contains errors. I have never advised people against using it, I just want them to be conscious of the known faults. If that means I am making this sound a significantly larger issue than it is in your opinion, you are very welcome to that. Have a great afternoon.
Had a great afternoon thanks, nice walk along the beach and then a couple of pizzas. A bit burnt on one edge, a combo of gusting wind and not making any for six months.
Hope you had a good one too Raffe.
Burnt offerings:
And here is where we ended up. Some burning too on this one...made 9 in total for the family. I had 2! Tried this one with a few o ions thrown on...
Tasted great. Not using plain flour made a huge difference to how workable the dough was. The issue of over rising seems to have sorted itself out with the knock back. There were some air pockets when stretching but end product tasted great...thanks for all advice gents.
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Looks good!
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
https://flic.kr/p/2iMgr1K
Hopefully this video will work? One of mine this afternoon..
Still struggling to embed stuff from Flickr..
Looks like your oven wasn't at peak heat? Do you measure the temperature of the stone before you launch the pizza? A infrared thermometer is very helpful, less than 10 quid from Amazon.
You may also want to have a look at this video about common mistakes with wood-fire, molto interessante.
It wasn’t - really needed another 30 minutes, but the girls were getting hungry...
Haha, I know how it is.
I think I have caught the pizza bug...another dough prepared today. This time in the fridge (my thinking that it will rise less in the fridge, as last time it rose way too much, also cut back on the yeast this time). It is certainly rising less so far. I will take it out tomorrow morning so that it will have had around 18 hours in the fridge...what do I do next? How long does it need to be at RT before you ball it up? I am just making this up as I go along! I did download the Pizza App as advised above...it helped with the quantities but I am still flummoxed with the timing side of things.
At the risk of kicking of another robust discussion.
When cold proofing I’d give it a hour or so at rt, ball up and leave for 2-3h.
If you’ve downloaded the app have a play by adding ct in the options page and have a play on durations.
The aim of the app is to use the time you have and number/size of balls to derive the quantities needed.
Let us know if you’ve any questions.
Last edited by Captain Morgan; 7th April 2020 at 20:13.
First outing this year and happy enough with the results. Only an 8 hour prove using Caputo 00 topped with Buffalo Mozzarella and Suffolk Salami Co Chorizo.
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That’s superb pal.
First outing this year and happy enough with the results. Only an 8 hour prove using Caputo 00 topped with Buffalo Mozzarella and Suffolk Salami Co Chorizo.
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Living in Suffolk it would be good to hear more about Suffolk Salami Co.
Ta
Pitch
Thanks.
They’re a relatively local farm to me (based in Brundish) and they started out producing quality sausages, bacon etc.
Recently they’ve also started listed sliced and full sticks of salami and chorizo in our “local” Co-Op and they are superb.
Highly recommended if you get the chance to give them a go.
Original site - http://www.lanefarm.co.uk
Salami site - http://www.suffolksalami.co.uk
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What a great thread, and so many fantastic looking pizzas and ovens!
The wife and I are obsessed with pizza (spent 4 days in Napoli and tried 9-10 pizzerias-level obsessed), but it's been ages since we last made some at home. We used to do a few a week, but for some reason it fizzled out. I need to get back on the pizza horse!
I've been eyeing a Roccbox for a long time, and the last few weeks I've been painfully close to ordering one. The problem is that I haven't found a single bag of flour in the last two weeks, and I'd go mad if I had a Roccbox with nothing to put in it. Does anyone know of a website (or shop in the Bournemouth area) that still have flour in stock?
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Bit of advice if anyone can help.
Getting the pizza stuck to the roccbox pizza peel (one supplied) having trouble getting the pizza to slide of in to the oven. What's everyone use ?
Looking at getting a better pizza peel, there's loads about though.
Also what do people use to clean the Roccbox stone?
Thanks
Use a wood peel with some semolina sprinkled on it for launching and use a metal peel for turning a d getting out of the oven
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Bugger, hadn’t even considered the lack of flour for when the Ooni is launched. We have nothing in the house either. Cocked that up a treat then!
Errr how will you make pizza if you have no flour?
For if you ever find some flour https://www.crustkingdom.com/best-pi...our-in-the-uk/
I showed my wife the Roccbox and the price and she said it seemed an ok price lol. I’d still like to build a proper one but maybe a gas one is a good compromise at present
Last edited by reecie; 8th April 2020 at 20:58.
Nice article regarding flour. This was one of today's efforts.
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Getting closer!
Thanks for the PM, found some plain flour which will be better than nothing! Getting excited about finally buying one, found a new wood fired takeaway last night & was very impressed but know I can do the same if not better with practice.
I really am getting excited to finally fire the Clementi up. Rebuild is nearly there.
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...59#post5377659
Pitch
That is looking very nice indeed. Supremely jealous
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Caputo flour available here https://www.express-foodservice.co.u...lue-p143887738 for good price. Unfortunately £100 min order but might be useful for anyone nearby (Littlehampton).
No minimum order on Tuesday, pay via contactless and collect, perhaps the minimum relates to delivery?
Cheers pal.
It’s been a breeze and not a great deal of money to do.
Pitch
Yes, sorry, £100 min for delivery.
I suppose with the main structure already in place it would make it easier and cheaper for sure.
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After much deliberation, I placed an order for the new Koda 16 as per-order & due for delivery later this month. Can’t wait.
Caputo flour ordered, can’t wait to try the first pizzas from it, hoping the learning curve is not too depressing!
Lunchtime pizza today:
A leftover doughball from yesterday, a little bit overproved but should do for the purpose:
Stretching:
Looks good:
Fresh tomatoe sauce, hand-crushed from whiole Puglia tomatoes:
Add some olives and Bufallo:
Onto the launching peel...
...and into the oven:
After one minute:
90 seconds, maybe a tiny touch too long (Salami added after baking):
Grating some fresh Parmigiano-Reggiano:
Finito:
Tasted good.
Why the salami after cooking? I’ve always added my meat before with the exception of Parma ham.
I used to do the same, but have recently switched to adding salami after the cook. I like it much better. Might be a question of taste, though.
You should try thinly sliced mortadella on pizza (after the bake), especially if you are baking an egg on it. Heavenly.
Thanks for the step by step. Very nice to see.
Looks a great result.
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Looking fab again bud.
Mrs P requested garlic bread this morning for this evenings cook up on the kadai so trying 8hr fermentation as per pizza app so from .4g of fresh yeast to 3g and 18 min mix in the kitchen aid.
Pitch
My latest attempt, two weeks back using a stone in a regular oven.
Tuna salami red onion capers
Mini tomatoes in the oven
Then Parma, rucola, pecorino and olive oil to finish off. Kids don’t like rucola so covered half only.
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Looks great! Especially considering its from the kitchen oven.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
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