Reply With Quote^That's a delicuous irony considering recent tales.
Speaking to the manager of goldsmiths today new policy from 1st may from arium group is to retain cards for 12 months is the policy from the head office to stop people selling on to greys.
^That's a delicuous irony considering recent tales.
It’s back up
Relist here
How the devil will I sleep tonight.Originally Posted by dommorton
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
I doubt Rolex are the highest selling. ;-)
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Only mentioned it as others had presumed sold. Seems it may not be so easy to pull big numbers for these sans card.
Good
I hope it f@@ks all the greedy ones up.
I have no problem with people making a few quid but most of these flippers are taking the p**s
I suspect it will simply drive the price up for sets with warranty cards.
Just to add I went with my friend today at goldsmiths he picked up his black submariner and as per the new arium group policy from 1st may they have retained the warranty card for 1 year and this will only be given after one year when my friend returns wearing his watch. All stickers were removed as well. This is policy is enforced from head office.
Last edited by taz11; 9th May 2018 at 22:02.
I see black and blue back up sale so not flying out without the card as folk tz was saying won't make a difference without the card!
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Pot kettle black springs to mind.
Still, if people insist on being treated like mugs then that’s exactly how they will be treated.
Just curious though, what happens if he doesn’t turn up in one year with the watch Goldsmiths just keep his property?
Also what happens to someone who does have a warranty card and has lost it and needs to contact Rolex for a new one, do they refuse on the grounds that Goldsmiths are keeping them for everyone else so your not getting one?
Rolex don't issue replacement warranty cards.
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Good to hear.
Edit: - But what if he has a serious accident, loses both arms and can't wear the watch?
In my finest pantomime voice "Oh yes they do!"
...if certain circumstances apply and if you hold your mouth the right way.
I had a lovely instance of a steel midsize (I think it was) with the replacement warranty card AND the original warranty card, which for some reason had been retained as well.
H
I suspect a number of Goldsmiths managers and staff will be taking fewer holidays and enjoying a slightly reduced lifestyle from now then.
Iit's certain circumstances not Standard practice
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Last edited by bokbok; 10th May 2018 at 10:04.
The sales person made it clear that after 1 year if you don't have the watch that they will not give the warranty card without the watch. He said these are the new terms and conditions and if people are not happy they can go else were as they are only protecting they're own interests with Rolex.
Will see what happens in year!
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I'd like to see how they word that particular twist on things.
Has anyone seen Goldsmiths put anything in writing as DMR have, or is it all verbal? That would be binding but deniable of course!
Was just wondering if they would be prepared to go to court regarding this? Cannot see that happening, surely if you send them a letter through a lawyer you will receive your card?
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Just to wade into this “discussion” a little late, I purchased my Patek 5167 from another forum member, who’s warranty papers were retained by the AD.
Initially he was given a scan of the warranty document, which is what I saw initially and when he contacted the AD to inform them of his selling the watch, they sent it out and I had it in place when I collected the watch.
Would it not be easy enough for the initial purchaser to take a photo of the warranty card before it disappears into the depths of the ADs safe? It seems to me that all those people plying watches with “warranty card withheld” have no evidence or proof they ever saw their warranty card.
At least if they had something to show a potential buyer, it would be something.
I guess the potential buyer could also call the AD and confirm the existence of the card in their possession?
they actually take 2 copies of the warranty card one they retain and one for the customer
I believe the policy adopted and published by DMR is acceptable and binding. The suggested "Goldsmiths twist" described above, refusing to supply the card altogether even after a year if the first owner cannot present the watch, would be a more exciting legal proposition.
Personally I think this will turn out to be no more than an individual, highly trained sales executives' * personal bull-poo patois and not the company's actual policy.
Anyone dealing with Goldsmiths should reasonably ask for a written statement of the terms, such as DMR have produced.
Do post it here for our examination if you can ;-)
* not my description.
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 10th May 2018 at 11:08.
I have a retained warranty card watch on at the moment. Got a photocopy of the card and will get it when its released by the AD.
I don't think its really stopped much TBH.
Does that include their own staff?
This is what bugs me too. After the thread the other week (where the OP was saying he was asked to provide a ‘back hander’ to get the Watch he wanted) it makes you think half the reason all this rubbish exists is because of bent dealers themselves!
Particularly when you don't need the card to get warranty work done.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Or more likely to con the gullible customer into thinking they have "Established a relationship with the dealer" become a "Valued customer" First in the loop for the latest release watch etc.... In short, the idea being to bring the balance back over to the dealer rather than the customer which the grey market had done so much to erode.
Keeping a warranty card I guess is cheaper than offering a cup of coffee or glass of cheap plonk when someone buys a watch.
Well if people are buying to enjoy and not flip for a quick profit. I don't see why it would be an issue the ad keeping the warranty card. I'm sure most here if had the chance to have the desirable pieces would be more than happy have ad keep the card for a 6 month and 1 year period
But that is not the (single) issue though is it?.
It's the whole nonsense of waiting lists/no lists/ doing favours for mates (or via a bung), followed by can have stickers/cannot have stickers.
Followed by......we keep the warranty card blah, blah blah.
What chance is this you speak of?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Exactly, it’s a watch ffs. Personally when spending a large chunk of money on a trinket I’d prefer to be treated well and with respect rather than taken out back and bent over while handing over an envelope off cash...and for that reason, I’m out.
These Ana warranty card retentive policy is it worldwide or limited to the UK only?
Fas est ab hoste doceri
Is the watch you have someone else purchased And you waiting for the card?
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I bet it doesn't.
That will benefit them even further in that they will have the full sets which will command the highest prices.
Yes. (x2)
Cool you bought from someone you know then ?
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I know of one incident already where a letter similar to DMR's was circulated to a waiting list. Chap accepted the terms and his BLNR came through. He bought it and the warranty card was kept by the AD. A week or so later he cut up rough, demanding the card. AD refused and he had a solicitor's letter sent to them, claiming that the contract of sale was entered when they took his name down. If the facts are as presented to me he has no case, will not get his card --- nor, I suspect, any hot new Rolex model ever again.
No. Grey dealer stock.
I've been saying that withholding cards isn't really stopping the market.
I don't know what effect its going to have on private sales like eBay chappie though.
Last edited by verv; 11th May 2018 at 12:38.
In those circumstances though I see the point of the dealer, they had agreed terms at the point of signing up to buy the watch. I can see things potentially getting messy though in the future if withholding warranty cards becomes the norm. Peoples circumstances change and if they are getting prevented from (or at least made harder to) sell something that would bring in a considerable lump of cash there may be more incidents like this to come.
Had they, simply by taking down someone's name on a waiting list?
I don't believe so.
The AD offered the terms under the which the watch could be supplied when the customer's turn came - and he then had a choice whether to buy the watch under those terms or walk away. He chose to buy.
Sorry I misunderstood, I thought they had told the customer at the time of putting their name down that they would be keeping the warranty card.
Still see messy times ahead for AD's and customers if this becomes the norm though.
I have accepted these terms when I got my name down, and paid a deposit, on a new Pepsi GMT. I, personally, don't care though because I plan for it to become my daily wearer.
You saying it won't make a difference your not guaranteed to get your card if grey dealer had to get it off the chap who sold them the watch in the first place.
That's 2 hands the card could possibly go through it's just not for me paying premium and wait for the card
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Last edited by bokbok; 11th May 2018 at 17:03.
I'm saying its not making a difference to these watches being bought/traded in to and sold by grey dealers, particularly if they have regular customers trading rolex in for patek/AP etc.
It won't make a difference to me personally because I won't be selling the watch privately as its a shop watch and i don't mix.
I'm not illustrating anything to have a no thanks etc row, I'm just observing the lie of the land from where I am at.
I've already said that I don't know what difference it's going to make to private sales.
Ok I get you
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No worries :)
There's much jabbering about this topic on a Canadian watch forum I'm a member of, going over the ground we've already gone (and are still going) over here a million times. It isn't a practice anyone's reported being aware of happening in Canada, although the SS sports shortage is being experienced—but to a lesser extent than in Blighty, it seems.
Thanks for the info, what I'm trying to understand is whether this is 1) a worldwide practice, 2) whether it's initiated by Rolex or AD. Reason being, if it is not enforced worldwide then it could be argued that it is discriminatory practice to any particular market. Secondly, if it is not Rolex policy and terms of sales then ADs who withold warranty cards could be in breach of the consumer rights as the customer is effectively deprived of the essential part of the goods they are reasonably expecting to receive in exchange for money.
Also, it could be argued that by not supplying the warranty card the offending ADs have introduced an unfair terms in the sale of goods contract and could be open for legal action.
LINKWhat is unfair?
Generally, contract terms and notices are unfair if they put the customer at an unfair disadvantage. The law applies a fairness test that starts by asking whether the wording used tilts the rights and responsibilities between the customer and the trader too much in favour of the trader.
The test is applied by looking at the words and how they could be used. It takes into consideration what is being sold, how a term relates to other terms in the contract and all the circumstances at the time the term was agreed.
Some of your terms may be exempt from the fairness test – namely, those describing the main subject matter and setting the price, provided these are clear and prominent. There is also an exemption for wording covered by law or rules, for example words that legally have to be used.
Certain terms and notices are blacklisted by legislation as unsuitable for use with consumers in any circumstances. These terms can be challenged on that basis, without needing to prove that they fail the fairness test.
Fas est ab hoste doceri
I've looked on the terms and conditions on the goldsmiths website
And does not state anywhere about keeping cards when buying a rolex
They just tell you that you can't have it for 12MTHS
You don't sign any agreement
I can understand Rolex and ADs wanting to hinder the gray market, that is brand new unregistered watches being sold out of the AD network, but this has nothing to do with that market, this is the ‘manipulation’ of the second hand market and I think it’s just sour grapes from ADs that they know the watches they sell are worth more than they have to sell them for.
Cheers..
Jase
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