Crew member Volvo Ocean Race overboard in Southern Ocean

[Incredible Sulk]

I think the inflatable type keep you afloat on your back, (which is better to prevent water getting into your mouth if you’re unconscious), but this makes it very hard to swim wearing one.

I’ll stand to be corrected from others more knowledgeable than I on the subject though.

It's worth pointing out that with the inflatable type, to make them effective they have to have crotch straps fitted, and you need to have them done up. If you don't (and lots of people don't) you run the risk of submarining out of the thing.

See this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-CmyKdy3MU

[PickleB]

Not being very clued up on this type of thing, why would the people wearing 'inflatable life jackets' drown whereas the ones wearing the other type didn't? I thought they all prevented drowning.

Interested to hear from you guys 'in the know' so to speak.

Thanks

ook

Lots of 'unknowns' enter into the mix:

• were the inflatable life jackets auto or manual - for inflation?
• were they adequately maintained - did they work?
• what was the state of the casualties on entering the water?
• the physical state of the persons at the time of the incident - age, fitness, tiredness etc

As I understand it, the fatalities were older people, while the survivors (wearing a 'dinghy vest') were youngsters (for want of a better term). Their state of dress also enters into the equation. Immersion survival times (pdf link) depend upon all of these...and more, eg time to effect a rescue.

Prime lesson: Don't go in.

[PickleB]

It's worth pointing out that with the inflatable type, to make them effective they have to have crotch straps fitted, and you need to have them done up. If you don't (and lots of people don't) you run the risk of submarining out of the thing.

See this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-CmyKdy3MU

I've not seen that video before...or any similar demonstration. Thanks, it's very useful.


Edit It makes a most important point very quickly. For a fuller (lengthy) explanation see this YouTube link.


Update When looking at advice online etc, beware because the USCG (the 'Americans') do not appear to make the any distinction between Buoyancy Aids and Lifejackets...see this link...whereas the UK's RYA think it is important to do so...link. If you went by the title and that it carries a USCG stamp of approval, you might be misled by this YouTube video unless you did some more background research.

[Maysie]

I can remember doing a 'man over-board' drill when I was learning to sail on an old racing maxi as part of the AYF 'competent crew' course.

It was quite a quick boat, but was was not going particularly fast at the time of the drill. My overwhelming memory is just how far we traveled before we could turn the boat around and head back for the recovery - despite all of the crew being ready for the drill. I was also taught to create a 'debris field' in the water as well, to make the location more identifiable - not sure if that is current practice still or not though, but I was interested to see that no items were thrown overboard on the 15 minute rescue clip despite having things to hand.

[Maysie]

Tribute to John Fisher for those who havent seen it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxLegS34MpU

[PickleB]

I can remember doing a 'man over-board' drill when I was learning to sail on an old racing maxi as part of the AYF 'competent crew' course.

It was quite a quick boat, but was was not going particularly fast at the time of the drill. My overwhelming memory is just how far we traveled before we could turn the boat around and head back for the recovery - despite all of the crew being ready for the drill. I was also taught to create a 'debris field' in the water as well, to make the location more identifiable - not sure if that is current practice still or not though, but I was interested to see that no items were thrown overboard on the 15 minute rescue clip despite having things to hand.

If it's the clip in this post:

^^^^^^

"It's a drill that has been practised over and over again. But always as a drill." Unfortunately that's not quite the case...Scallywag has 'form': YouTube - man overboard rescue on Scallywag! But, in that case, they did "get the Australian back onboard in less than 15 minutes!"

...that starts well after their initial actions when they're into the recovery phase. The pdf linked in this post:

The organisers supply a plethora of 'AIS SRS' units to each boat for the race (pdf link). In the past, this has been Kannad equipment, eg the SafeLink R10 (link).

That doesn't seem to have been enough in this instance.

...lists:

• Foam horseshoes -2 In the aft watertight compartment
• Horseshoe Drogue - 2 One tied to each horseshoe
• Double; Inflatable Horseshoe- 1 Aerial frame
• Single; Inflatable Horseshoe- 1 Aerial frame
• Buoyant Smoke 15 min - 1 Aerial frame
• Lifebuoy Light – Apollo - 2 One tied to each horseshoe

...and that's the sort of thing the crew should have been trained to deploy immediately upon a man-overboard. What I cannot see listed is a danbuoy marker that (being a couple of metres tall) gives a visual reference from a distance. However a buoyant smoke flare would serve the same purpose.

[Maysie]

If it's the clip in this post:





...that starts well after their initial actions when they're into the recovery phase. The pdf linked in this post:



...lists:

• Foam horseshoes -2 In the aft watertight compartment
• Horseshoe Drogue - 2 One tied to each horseshoe
• Double; Inflatable Horseshoe- 1 Aerial frame
• Single; Inflatable Horseshoe- 1 Aerial frame
• Buoyant Smoke 15 min - 1 Aerial frame
• Lifebuoy Light – Apollo - 2 One tied to each horseshoe

...and that's the sort of thing the crew should have been trained to deploy immediately upon a man-overboard. What I cannot see listed is a danbuoy marker that (being a couple of metres tall) gives a visual reference from a distance. However a buoyant smoke flare would serve the same purpose.

Of course, that makes more sense now.
I was just surprised when the beginning of the video footage showed one of the crew throwing things around the deck rather than overboard and had just assumed it was the start of the whole episode.
Should have realised.

[PickleB]

It seems as though they rely on GPS to find the man in the water! See this YouTube Link...MOB routines on a Volvo 65.


I'd have thought that their MoB button would jettison some form of buoyancy / marker as it's probably not realistic to expect one of the three on deck to do so...given the size of the boat and other immediate tasks for them to perform. It may be that they've decided that danbuoys and flares are redundant in the sorts of conditions they expect to sail it.



Edit That...and kit the personnel are meant to carry; YouTube...Spares and Safety Kit.

[Maysie]

A very good friend of mine worked on the design of this:
https://srt-marine.com/product/ais-s...-transponders/

It makes you wonder why they all don't have to wear one.

[Incredible Sulk]

A very good friend of mine worked on the design of this:
https://srt-marine.com/product/ais-s...-transponders/

It makes you wonder why they all don't have to wear one.

Well, the one you've linked to is about 18" tall. It wouldn't half interfere with your ability to pull bits of string when the skipper tells you to.

On a more serious note, these are screwed on to the boat somewhere, ready to be activated if the boat gets into serious trouble, or in the worst case activated and taken with you when you have to take to the liferaft.

[PickleB]

A very good friend of mine worked on the design of this:
https://srt-marine.com/product/ais-s...-transponders/

It makes you wonder why they all don't have to wear one.

That link takes me to one designed for a vessel, ie too big for an individual...but there are personal AIS MoB markers available and they had them onboard:

The organisers supply a plethora of 'AIS SRS' units to each boat for the race (pdf link). In the past, this has been Kannad equipment, eg the SafeLink R10 (link).

That doesn't seem to have been enough in this instance.

But...and it's a big but:

And now we know why...see Volvo Ocean Race Scrutinizes Safety Measures for:

For Scallywag, this lifesaving new technology went away when, two days out of Auckland, the boat’s lone A.I.S. antenna at the top of the 100-foot mast was damaged in the strong winds.

“If we had our A.I.S., we would have found him,” Witt said. “I’ve learned that redundancies in this system is an example of change, like a second antenna.”

[Maysie]

Well, the one you've linked to is about 18" tall. It wouldn't half interfere with your ability to pull bits of string when the skipper tells you to.

It was a 'person' sized version of the same sort of thing, rather than the larger 'boat' sized version linked in my post.

From memory it was about much smaller, nowhere near 18 inches long. I am sure there are loads of them around from a variety of manufacturers.

[PickleB]

Given the topic of this thread, some may be interested to read a Safety Bulletin from the MAIB, Use of safety harness tethers on sailing yachts - Fatal accident on board the sailing yacht: pdf link. Their full report is pending: link.



I speculated above (#9) about the investigation into the accident that is the topic of this thread. I'll post a link if I ever find it, but there are plenty of completed MAIB reports to learn from (link), including:

• Accidents on board yacht CV21 resulting in loss of 2 lives

• Accidental gybe...with loss of 1 life

The first of those two links allows you to download their full report and it is quite comprehensive.

The full report of the MAIB investigation into the first incident has been published. Here is a link...Man overboard from commercially operated yacht CV30 with loss of 1 life.

The loss of John Fisher from Team Sun Hung Kai / Scallywag happened several months later and so any similar report may not be published for a while yet. However, I'm not sure that anyone will produce a report of such comprehensiveness into the circumstances of his death. It is not on the list of current MAIB investigations (link), not even under '3. Investigations led by other countries'.