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Thread: Classic Ferrari near work

  1. #1
    Master
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    Classic Ferrari near work

    I assume this isn't a real one but it looked good. Reg checkers have it as a 1988 Rover, which I assume is the original car to carry this plate. The driver probably has fake plates on it to fit the car



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  2. #2
    TBH, it doesn’t even really look like a 250 GTO. And they certainly weren’t F regs.

    You need to change your thread title.

  3. #3
    Master
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    Obviously not an actual F reg. Fairly certain it's not the genuine article but a lot of these were based on 250GTEs so still a classic Ferrari

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  4. #4
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    Roof line looks more Datsun 240z.

  5. #5
    Master ditchvisitor's Avatar
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    I was round at a friends last night and was lucky enough to sit in his RHD Miura SV and 365 GTB/4, both absolutely stunning.

  6. #6
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parabola View Post
    I assume this isn't a real one but it looked good. Reg checkers have it as a 1988 Rover, which I assume is the original car to carry this plate. The driver probably has fake plates on it to fit the car



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    i think you are right to assume its a fake. All be it rather nice. Possibly built on a a 944 body.

    As an aside Nick Masons 250 GTO has the reg 250 GTO. Cooler than an iceberg.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    i think you are right to assume its a fake. All be it rather nice. Possibly built on a a 944 body.

    As an aside Nick Masons 250 GTO has the reg 250 GTO. Cooler than an iceberg.
    Strange that fake cars are okay but watches generally unacceptable to most on here.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    i think you are right to assume its a fake. All be it rather nice. Possibly built on a a 944 body.

    As an aside Nick Masons 250 GTO has the reg 250 GTO. Cooler than an iceberg.
    Yeah, there can't be more than a handful of real ones in the UK. Too precious even.for the uber rich to drive on the road (even Mayfair). I've seen some pretty special stuff near the office though including a 275GTB, a Maclaren P1, a few Veyrons and a Chiron. There is even a guy in the building across the road that commutes in this



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  9. #9
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    Quite a few 240Zs were butchered to make these monstrosities so it wouldn't surprise me if that's what's underneath. The irony being a 240Z is now worth good money and is a cracking piece of kit.
    You can live in your car but you can't drive your house.

  10. #10
    Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    I used to be very against all fake cars.

    But now I make exceptions for cars like the GTO. None of us will own one so I can understand using a donor Ferrari to create one.

    The cheap ones are still awful.

    Ditch, you know someone with a RHD SV? That's one of my all time favourites. You know the rules, pics...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parabola View Post
    Yeah, there can't be more than a handful of real ones in the UK. Too precious even.for the uber rich to drive on the road (even Mayfair). I've seen some pretty special stuff near the office though including a 275GTB, a Maclaren P1, a few Veyrons and a Chiron. There is even a guy in the building across the road that commutes in this



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    Now that is pure class.

  12. #12
    Master ditchvisitor's Avatar
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    AO, this good enough? I got to sit in it last night and it’s tiny! It’s got a tape player that Rod spec’d with a record button so he could hum tunes/lyrics etc into when driving! It’s a thing of beauty, as is the Clapton 275.

    Last edited by ditchvisitor; 13th March 2018 at 22:52.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditchvisitor View Post
    AO, this good enough? I got to sit in it last night and it’s tiny! It’s got a tape player that Rod spec’d with a record button so he could hum tunes/lyrics etc into when driving! It’s a thing of beauty, as is the Clapton 275.

    Stunning

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    Quote Originally Posted by ditchvisitor View Post
    AO, this good enough? I got to sit in it last night and it’s tiny! It’s got a tape player that Rod spec’d with a record button so he could hum tunes/lyrics etc into when driving! It’s a thing of beauty, as is the Clapton 275.

    That’s amazing, one of the most desireable cars ever built. I always shudder at the opening scenes of The Italian Job!

    Not in the same league but I once happened upon this old Ford on my travels.


  15. #15
    The plates on the car are also illegally displayed as anything first registered after Jan 1973 cannot have the old style silver on black plates. The number was first registered to a Freight Rover Sherpa dropside commercial vehicle.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by stefaulkner View Post
    Now that is pure class.
    ... and when you keep the cowls clean, it won't overheat in city traffic

    Spannering away in a classic car workshop brings one in contact with people who have proper car collection. What amazes me is the difference between people and their attitude when it comes to using of their cars. One guys opts for a Citroen C1 as his daily driver; with 100+ serious classics (e.g. Gullwing Merc, GT40, Allard) in his "amusment hall", and Jay Lano's phone number in his contact list. An older couple (70+) with a Jag XK120, SS100, S-type and two Ferraris (one classic...) go camping all around Europe in the XK120 and don't even bother to lock the car when they park it in an old historic town they like to visit!

    Menno

  17. #17
    Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    That’s the equivalent of having a nice watch collection in the safe and wearing a G-Shock or having them all out and wearing them in rotation.

    It seems a shame to have something and not to use it.

  18. #18
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSB View Post
    The plates on the car are also illegally displayed as anything first registered after Jan 1973 cannot have the old style silver on black plates. The number was first registered to a Freight Rover Sherpa dropside commercial vehicle.
    Yeah, but it's surprising what The Law will turn a blind eye to, on a nicely presented car.
    I had this B&W vintage m/c sized plate on my Noble P4 replica (sorry, 1985 Renault 25 V6i):



    The front plate was a similarly tiny oblong, mounted inside the front radiator intake !




    That said, I always used to carry a set of legal plates around with me , just in case.
    Last edited by Seiko7A38; 14th March 2018 at 09:48. Reason: Looking for a photo that showed the front plate. Found one at last. LOL !!

  19. #19
    Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditchvisitor View Post
    AO, this good enough?
    Amazing. If there was an automotive God, they'd drive an SV.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    Yeah, but it's surprising what The Law will turn a blind eye to, on a nicely presented car.
    I had this B&W vintage m/c sized plate on my Noble P4 replica (sorry, 1985 Renault 25 V6i):




    That said, I always used to carry a set of legal plates around with me , just in case.
    Very sensible :-)

  21. #21
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOmega View Post
    Amazing. If there was an automotive God, they'd drive an SV.
    Correction. He'd drive a Ferrari P4.


  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOmega View Post
    I used to be very against all fake cars.

    But now I make exceptions for cars like the GTO. None of us will own one so I can understand using a donor Ferrari to create one.

    The cheap ones are still awful.

    Ditch, you know someone with a RHD SV? That's one of my all time favourites. You know the rules, pics...

    That doesn’t make sense I will never be able to afford a milsub but I won’t buy a fake.

  23. #23
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    Tricky one.

    I don't think many people really think you drive a Ferrari 250 GTO or a P4 if you rock up in one of these.

    Those really in the know will spot a 'replica'/fake straight off and most people will assume it's a replica even if it's not!

    Cobras suffer from this - Everyone assumes EVERY Cobra is a replica, even the real ones!

    Watches are at a different price point, a Rolex might cost you £5,000, a GTO £15,000,000... Wearing a fake Rolex, people won't automatically assume you can't afford the real thing.

    How many Ferrari 250 GTOs are there? How many actually get driven? How many Jaguar D-Types were made? How many Marcos XPs (OK, you can't buy a replica of that one! )? There was (like the Marcos) only ever one Jaguar XJ13 and Jaguar won't sell that, so is it wrong to drive a replica?

    That said, and whilst I love some of the kit replicas around (That P4 looks great and some Lancia Stratos replicas are reckoned to be BETTER than the real thing!), I don't think I'd have one - there are plenty of great affordable classics out there without driving a Nissan with a body kit, but I don't view people with replica cars the way I do those with fake watches..

    And I can see that that's an inconsistency!

    M

    PS I'd agree, the car in the original post doesn't look real, even ignoring the plate...
    Last edited by snowman; 14th March 2018 at 10:48.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Strange that fake cars are okay but watches generally unacceptable to most on here.
    Difference is, nobody tries to sell a repro car on as original to defraud a buyer.
    I've got no issue, they brighten what can sometimes be a dull day.

  25. #25
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    How many real 250 GTOs aren't real at all?

    If I had one of the 39 250 GTOs, valued at, what, £35-£50million, I'd have a perfect replica built and would park the real thing in a large vault somewhere. The owners of the cars you see race at Goodwood would be bonkers to use the original GTO engine, gearbox and so on, they'd be locked up somewhere safe and that 250 GTE donor car they plundered 20 years ago when they weren't worth much will donate all the choice bits which can then be modified for racing.

    Here's a nice piece on a chap in New Zealand who builds proper replicas:

    You can live in your car but you can't drive your house.

  26. #26
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post


    I always wanted a go in a Noble P4, I've tried some of his other cars and always admired how he made them drive. Am I right in thinking the car is mostly accurate bar the shape of the windscreen and height of the roof, presumably for practicality (and whatever glass was available)?
    You can live in your car but you can't drive your house.

  27. #27
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    ... go camping all around Europe in the XK120 and don't even bother to lock the car when they park it in an old historic town they like to visit!
    You can lock an XK120? A coupé presumably or do you mean the boot lid? My old banger doesn't have door locks or bumpers so I have to be very careful where I park and what I leave in it. Someone once relieved me of a fuel can and an old copy of Classic & Sports Car left in the footwell. People will take anything.
    You can live in your car but you can't drive your house.

  28. #28
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    I don't think many people really think you drive a Ferrari 250 GTO or a P4 if you rock up in one of these.

    Those really in the know will spot a 'replica'/fake straight off and most people will assume it's a replica even if it's not!
    Au Contraire my friend. You'd be surprised. I know I was - almost mortified at the time in fact.

    I sold my P4 replica at the end of May 2016. It was a big wrench, but I had to let it go.
    I listed it on eBay (the listing is still out there, in eBay history), but sold it privately off eBay.

    The description was quite lengthy (even by my wordy standards).
    I tacked this onto the bottom as an amusing footnote. It is a TRUE STORY.

    Final footnote and a mildly amusing anecdote:
    Many years ago, when my enthusiasm for the Ferrari marque was at its height, I joined the Prancing Horse Register, which entitled me to attend Ferrari UK club events. In 2003, I attended the UK National Concours at Boughton House, driving this Noble P4 replica. Uncertain what their reaction to a 'Fake Ferrari' in their midst might be, I approached the entrance with some trepidation, looking for the ‘plebs’ non-Ferrari parking area. To my horror I suddenly realized that the marshals waving frantically at me were calling me down to the Ferrari competition car display area, near the main house. I don’t know who was more embarrassed.
    I did ask to be re-directed to the 'plebs' car park, but was instructed to park in the main Ferrari parking area. The car attracted a lot of attention, for most of the day - someone even painted a watercolour of it, which they presented to me. Needless to say I never again took it to another such F.O.C. event, for fear of a recurrence - only track days.

    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    How many Ferrari 250 GTOs are there? How many actually get driven?

    .... so is it wrong to drive a replica?

    That said, and whilst I love some of the kit replicas around (That P4 looks great ....
    How many P4's ? 8 or 9 real ones, depending on your opinions of James Glickenhaus' chassis #0846.

    Nope. I never claimed my car was anything other than a replica, indeed P4Replica was (and still is) my username on a good many forums (including FerrariChat and Pistonheads).

    Thanks. I had a lot of good times in that car and never heard anyone say a bad word about it.

    Last edited by Seiko7A38; 14th March 2018 at 13:36. Reason: Too many buts ! LOL !

  29. #29
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    Oh and my perfect replica would be to take a real 250 GTO and turn it into a GTE.
    You can live in your car but you can't drive your house.

  30. #30
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    I always wanted a go in a Noble P4, I've tried some of his other cars and always admired how he made them drive. Am I right in thinking the car is mostly accurate bar the shape of the windscreen and height of the roof, presumably for practicality (and whatever glass was available)?
    My apologies; I didn't intend to derail this thread by going on about my P4 replica.

    I think the overall shape is pretty good, other than as you say the height of the roof. The lower doors, nose and tail clip moulds were taken off David Piper's car (chassis #0900). It drove exceedingly well, because the chassis was a lightly modified Ultima MkII, which is where the main dimensional discrepancy stems from. I can't remember now, whether it was Lee or Rob Wilson (who was involved in the project) told me that it was due to the prevailing UK Kit Car / Construction and Use regulations, which stipulated that a driver's feet had to be behind the centre line of the (imaginary) front axle. Hence the Noble P4 chassis was 3" longer in the wheelbase than a real P4. Most of it was disguised by the longer scuttle. The (revised) driving position dictated that slightly unfortunate raised roofline to cater for 'taller' drivers. I'm 5'10" and couldn't wear a helmet without canting my head towards the middle of the cockpit. The doors on the berlinettas were cut deeper into the roof to improve getting in and out. As far as I know, the windscreen (laminated produced by Autoglass) is pretty close, but it doesn't curve quite as much in one plane, to avoid distortion.

    Owner Eddie Perk built highly modded Noble (not Foreman) P4 with a correct lowered roofline:



    But then IIRC, Eddie's only about 5'2". I did try getting in his car once. LOL !!
    Last edited by Seiko7A38; 14th March 2018 at 14:58. Reason: Prevalent or Prevailing ? Spell it right, either way !

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parabola View Post
    I assume this isn't a real one but it looked good. Reg checkers have it as a 1988 Rover, which I assume is the original car to carry this plate. The driver probably has fake plates on it to fit the car



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    Here's the original.

    http://talacrest.com/ferrari-250-gto-3387/galleries/

    I believe it's asking around £50 million.

  32. #32
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    My apologies; I didn't intend to derail this thread by going on about my P4 replica.

    I think the overall shape is pretty good, other than as you say the height of the roof. The lower doors, nose and tail clip moulds were taken off David Piper's car (chassis #0900). It drove exceedingly well, because the chassis was a lightly modified Ultima MkII, which is where the main dimensional discrepancy stems from. I can't remember now, whether it was Lee or Rob Wilson (who was involved in the project) told me that it was due to the prevailing UK Kit Car / Construction and Use regulations, which stipulated that a driver's feet had to be behind the centre line of the (imaginary) front axle. Hence the Noble P4 chassis was 3" longer in the wheelbase than a real P4. Most of it was disguised by the longer scuttle. The (revised) driving position dictated that slightly unfortunate raised roofline to cater for 'taller' drivers. I'm 5'10" and couldn't wear a helmet without canting my head towards the middle of the cockpit. The doors on the berlinettas were cut deeper into the roof to improve getting in and out. As far as I know, the windscreen (laminated produced by Autoglass) is pretty close, but it doesn't curve quite as much in one plane, to avoid distortion.
    I'm not convinced the thread was going anywhere other than into general discussion of replicas!

    That's all really interesting. I bet it was a blast to drive. I once took an M12 GTO to see Lee Noble and had a chat with him about all things cars and handling and had a look round the M14 which at that point was a chassis covered in rough fibreglass and seats etc in to get the positions correct. It was amazing seeing a car being built from scratch. I wish we could see more of him again, I know he's built two new cars but whether we'll see anything come of it again is anyone's guess.

    I'm fascinated by some of the really good replica Porsche 904s kicking around. I had a ride in a real one up the hill at Goodwood and it was fantastic but I reckon it's one of the much easier cars to replicate. Unfortunately all the appropriate engines and gearboxes are going to cost good money now by nature of being old and Porsche but as a £65k or so car a really well made one would be a strong contender for a weekend car for me if I was in the market and had the cash.
    You can live in your car but you can't drive your house.

  33. #33
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    My last word on the subject - I promise !

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    How many real 250 GTOs aren't real at all?

    Here's a nice piece on a chap in New Zealand who builds proper replicas:
    Discounting James Glickenhaus' recreation of chassis #0846 (he'll be threatening to sue me again) ....

    This is probably the best P4 replica out there. Period. It was built for a wealthy American client (in Seattle) over a period of about 20 years. The cost ended up being well over a million (Sterling).
    I went to see it a couple of times during its construction and Rob Wilson's attention to detail was nothing short of incredible. It's virtually all fabricated from scratch (apart from the block and ZF gearbox). Rob had extended access to #0856 when it was owned by the late David Clarke.

    http://www.rmwilsonengineering.co.uk/p4/



    There is some more footage on YouTube somewhere, being driven on road in the States.

    I thought the owner spoiled it with those over-sized roundels and incorrect #25 fonts.



    Edit: Found it ! I'd forgotten how tall the owner was. Good job he'd specified a spyder.
    Last edited by Seiko7A38; 14th March 2018 at 14:45. Reason: Found that YouTube video

  34. #34
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    I used to think the 250LM was the nicest Ferrari and then I discovered the P4 and starting buying models of it. Fantastic thing.
    You can live in your car but you can't drive your house.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by BSB View Post
    The plates on the car are also illegally displayed as anything first registered after Jan 1973 cannot have the old style silver on black plates. The number was first registered to a Freight Rover Sherpa dropside commercial vehicle.
    The plate is still registered to the Sherpa, according to 'MOT history'.

  36. #36
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Wink Did you spot the deliberate mistake ?

    The RM Wilson P4 (although destined for Washington USA) is not the same car as the #25 !!
    That one's L.H.D. for starters !!!

    I'm trying to remember who built that one. Don't think it's a Norwood P4, although it might be one of their later cars. Could be one of Jim Carpenter's P4 replicas (he's based in Washington state, IIRC).




    Nope the #25 is a Norwood P4 !!
    Last edited by Seiko7A38; 14th March 2018 at 15:38. Reason: Enough. Back to the watches !!

  37. #37
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    .... the nicest Ferrari and then I discovered the P4 and starting buying models of it.
    Me too. Collected hundreds of the bloody things over the years.
    The majority in 1:18 and 1:43 scale (including lots of hand-built models), most of which are stored in boxes.
    Probably my favourite (which I still have on display) is a Racer 1:32 slot car diorama of the '67 Daytona finish.

    But the original 1:64 Hot Wheels P4 2002 Edition 13/42 will always hold a special place in my heart.



    It is, after all, based on a certain Noble P4 replica, rather than a real Ferrari P4.

  38. #38
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    Me too. Collected hundreds of the bloody things over the years.
    The majority in 1:18 and 1:43 scale (including lots of hand-built models), most of which are stored in boxes.
    Probably my favourite (which I still have on display) is a Racer 1:32 slot car diorama of the '67 Daytona finish.

    But the original 1:64 Hot Wheels P4 2002 Edition 13/42 will always hold a special place in my heart.



    It is, after all, based on a certain Noble P4 replica, rather than a real Ferrari P4.
    Ah, that's very cool!
    You can live in your car but you can't drive your house.

  39. #39

    Classic Ferraris AT work








  40. #40


    A real 250 GTO reg plate.....owned by Nick Mason

  41. #41
    Master snowman's Avatar
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    He was filling up next to me at the service station on the Hogs Back many moons ago.

    Sadly before the days of camera phones otherwise a shot of my Marcos and it side by side would have been quite nice :)

    M

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

  42. #42
    This is the closest I'll get to owning a 250 GTO...



    In fact, technically speaking, I own a bit more of chassis number 3527GT as I couldn't resist buying the prototype cufflinks when they came up for sale too...



    Are two pairs of exactly the same cufflinks madness or is that a stupid question on a watch forum where members have multiple versions of the same watch?!!

    All the best,

    Paul

  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by lawnmowerman78 View Post


    Are two pairs of exactly the same cufflinks madness or is that a stupid question on a watch forum where members have multiple versions of the same watch?!!
    In a thread about fake cars, I’d be mildly concerned that ‘Christopher Bennett’ managed to change his signature between the two sets.

  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo73 View Post
    In a thread about fake cars, I’d be mildly concerned that ‘Christopher Bennett’ managed to change his signature between the two sets.
    Don't worry. It's the same. His own set of cufflinks must have hindered him when he put down the second signature! His wrist had a hard time moving freely when signing. (Sorry Paul, just joking. In reality, I like these cufflinks!)

  45. #45
    Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    Correction. He'd drive a Ferrari P4.

    I like your style.

    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    That doesn’t make sense I will never be able to afford a milsub but I won’t buy a fake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tifa View Post
    Difference is, nobody tries to sell a repro car on as original to defraud a buyer.
    I've got no issue, they brighten what can sometimes be a dull day.
    I think that's my position. But it's only for extremely limited globally important cars.

    When we're talking about something worth £20m, nobody is going to buy an MR2 thinking it's a GTO.

    And I'm only talking about at that level.

    Anything that could be confused for the real thing (by someone who has done due diligence) is where my interest ends.

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo73 View Post
    The plate is still registered to the Sherpa, according to 'MOT history'.
    Maybe that's the donor vehicle LOL...

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo73 View Post
    In a thread about fake cars, I’d be mildly concerned that ‘Christopher Bennett’ managed to change his signature between the two sets.
    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    Don't worry. It's the same. His own set of cufflinks must have hindered him when he put down the second signature! His wrist had a hard time moving freely when signing. (Sorry Paul, just joking. In reality, I like these cufflinks!)
    Haha - Very good guys!

    I too was "mildly concerned" but I have it in writing from Christopher himself that they are indeed both his signature and the differences are down to when he signed them and the mood he was in at the time!!!

    (The confirmation was by e-mail so I'm afraid I cannot confirm which signature he would have used when he replied to me...!)

    Cheers,

    Paul

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