Rolex AD keeping guarantee card

[ryanb741]

They withheld my warranty card on my Root Beer but luckily I received the watch which I am able to wear and that's the main point of me buying it so it's fine by me. If anything goes wrong it just gets sent back via the AD. The point of this is to discourage profiteering which means more of us get the chance to buy at RRP so I'm confused what the issue is? Blame the profiteers not the ADs.

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[Kingstepper]

Sad, not really , I dont like crap from any retailer, including the Rolex AD's that have a little man syndrome.

Another AD in disguise flashed out :-)

Never mentioned sad, but if the cap fits...

As for being an AD, you haven’t flashed (sic) anyone.

[Devonian]

To me AD’s are trying to protect themselves as much as possible with all that’s going in the the grey market and fear of losing their dealership - something that seems to be happening. There is talk of Rolex culling a lot more AD’s, especially the smaller ones in towns. Maybe more boutiques are the way forward?

I’ve never had a card held back, however the AD I use are apparently since March (advice from Rolex at Baselworld) holding back all cards, even for long standing clients. I buy to wear and enjoy - so far I’ve never taken the box out and admire the warranty card. If this becomes the norm, accept it or buy another brand - don’t spend your life fighting it though, life’s too precious for that.

[pete-r]

My new ND sub has been returned for adjustment, and my AD told me not to forget my warranty card when going there.

I said errr you've got it! Ah yes good point.

So they had to ring rolex st james and explain.

[number2]

Sad, not really , I dont like crap from any retailer, including the Rolex AD's that have a little man syndrome.

Another AD in disguise flashed out :-)

"little man syndrome" PMSL if there's a blatant inferiority complex here it's certainly not the AD.

[Hooshabak]

I really can’t work out what the AD gains from this especially as all its going to do is drive prices higher for items with cards.

I for one can’t wait until the market collapses and I can just go back to enjoy watches I want

[number2]

I really can’t work out what the AD gains from this especially as all its going to do is drive prices higher for items with cards.

I for one can’t wait until the market collapses and I can just go back to enjoy watches I want

What exactly is stopping us from enjoying watches?

[Hooshabak]

What exactly is stopping us from enjoying watches?

I give up, what?

[number2]

I give up, what?

Sorry didn't you say you wanted to go back to enjoying watches? I merely wondered whats stopping you, is it the prices or ADs hanging on to cards?

[markrlondon]

So here is an update, the law is an ass :-)

If there is no conditional sale /contract of sale established, you owe everything that comes in the box.
In this case/my case
Step 1) You need to go through many exchanges with AD, to establish the facts.(3 months) In my case the AD refused to provide the contract of sale.
Step 2) You need to go to arbitration, you need to find the arbitration path as your AD may be only member of a single ADR. In my case retail ADR paid for by the retailer ! (3 Months)
Step3) you need to establish the value of the loss that you have suffered (the difference between a secondhand Rolex without tags and papers and one with everything) which is about 10%
Step4) Apply to small claims court for a date and you get a date for over six months later !
Most of the above was done under my legal cover of Home and Contents Insurance, one would think they knew what they were doing.

By this time the anniversary of the watch was over .
In my case the AD lost everything and had to get replacement card, but no tags.

There is a huge lesson, you are either desperate and put up with the crap, or you switch to another AD, in my case latter, in the last 12 months they have gained nearly 40K of my business (2 x Cartier) 1x Omega DSOM and my favourite Yacht Master Bi-Metal

As to the other thread, very interesting how do you get brand new sports watches with all the papers and protective covers on auction sites and other channels ? Through an AD who is desperate to offload the huge numbers of Date Just's that need offloading. It is no longer enough to discount them to the point of no margin to secondary resellers, you need to sweeten the deal with a professional model or two.
Lets get the AD's on the forum to rubbish this :-)

Well done for taking this up, and thank you for the update on this.

Getting what you have paid for is never wrong. And clearly, leaving parts of what you have paid for with an AD is no good when they actually lose your property!

A key point that is worth noting here is that the AD lost the items they had pledged to keep safe. This is quite interesting, isn't it. A cynic might wonder if the warranty card was really lost or ended up being sold elsewhere.

As a matter of interest, I take it that the County Court claim did not go to a hearing? If so, that is unfortunate because it would have been good to get a legal ruling on this, albeit County Court rulings aren't precedent setting.

Also, what was the outcome of the ADR/arbitration? I note that the arbitration had to be paid for by the AD and I cannot help but observe that could be a useful DoS vector for those who dislike this poor service by ADs.

I also question the need to correspond with the AD for three months. Were it me, a much shorter series of letters would have sufficed to establish that they weren't going to provide everything that should have been part of the overall product package. I'd also skip their own arbitration procedure, if possible, unless it could be used to bring cost pressure to bear.



If the aim by ADs in providing this poor level of service is to prevent sales into the grey market then, let's face it, it isn't working and (as I said months ago) cannot work. All it does is insult and inconvenience legitimate customers whilst doing nothing substantive to stop the grey channel. ADs are damaging their own reputation and sustainability by actively distrusting their own customers in this manner. I feel sure that they will come to regret it.

[markrlondon]

In your case it didn’t come in the box so you’re not owed it.

As I pointed out to you in another thread, that is really not how it works. In fact, you know it's not how it works, don't you.

The fact that a person left the shop with a product in a certain state does not mean that that is necessarily the end of the matter. If the product was incomplete (i.e. did not contain what should have been in the box) then both legally and morally the buyer is still owed the rest of the product that they paid for. Weasel words like "hang tags and warranty cards are not part of the product" do not change this fundamental reality.

[Hooshabak]

Sorry didn't you say you wanted to go back to enjoying watches? I merely wondered whats stopping you, is it the prices or ADs hanging on to cards?

Bit of all that but mainly just not being able to physically get the watch you would like on the wrist

[MarkR]

As has been mentioned before, my only real issue with this practice is when someone who owns the watch has an emergency, or needs to raise capital quickly. Selling watches is a great way to quickly raise capital and I have done it myself in the past.

Their ability to sell THEIR watch is greatly diminished as the AD has the warranty card and buyers are more reluctant to buy. I was looking for a good analagy from another industry but I honestly cant think of one. Perhaps its like buying a car and the Dealer keeping the V5 for the year?

You wouldn't accept that so why should we accept this?

[Kingstepper]

As I pointed out to you in another thread, that is really not how it works. In fact, you know it's not how it works, don't you.

The fact that a person left the shop with a product in a certain state does not mean that that is necessarily the end of the matter. If the product was incomplete (i.e. did not contain what should have been in the box) then both legally and morally the buyer is still owed the rest of the product that they paid for. Weasel words like "hang tags and warranty cards are not part of the product" do not change this fundamental reality.

TBH I can’t remember all of my/your posts but my words are no more weaselly than yours and I’ll just disagree here.

[markrlondon]

As has been mentioned before, my only real issue with this practice is when someone who owns the watch has an emergency, or needs to raise capital quickly. Selling watches is a great way to quickly raise capital and I have done it myself in the past.

Their ability to sell THEIR watch is greatly diminished as the AD has the warranty card and buyers are more reluctant to buy. I was looking for a good analagy from another industry but I honestly cant think of one. Perhaps its like buying a car and the Dealer keeping the V5 for the year?

You wouldn't accept that so why should we accept this?

Quite so.




P.S. And no, I am not MarkR @ TZ-UK even though I sign myself as "MarkR"!

[joethetoe]

lots of people buys these watches as there is a trade in them.

ADs ask to keep the cards to avoid the trade/flip.

If you are buying to trade then this is crap.

If you arent buying to trade then this is cool.

last 3 rolexes I have bought have all had the cards left with dealer to give them confidence to sell these items (that so many people want) to me.

My dealer did say 'look if you came in and said im struggling and need to sell to get some cash" then they would give you the card straight away.......but probably just not sell you anymore rare/hard to get watches.

Cheers

[d2ore]

I understand it but think it’s a cheek personally
If Rolex or the AD don’t like the fact they are getting flipped then why don’t they act ?
If you buy the piece surely it’s your call what you do next ?
I for one do not like it

lots of people buys these watches as there is a trade in them.

ADs ask to keep the cards to avoid the trade/flip.

If you are buying to trade then this is crap.

If you arent buying to trade then this is cool.

last 3 rolexes I have bought have all had the cards left with dealer to give them confidence to sell these items (that so many people want) to me.

My dealer did say 'look if you came in and said im struggling and need to sell to get some cash" then they would give you the card straight away.......but probably just not sell you anymore rare/hard to get watches.

Cheers

[DaveA]

My dealer did say 'look if you came in and said im struggling and need to sell to get some cash" then they would give you the card straight away.

I was told likewise!

And I happen to know I jumped in front of a bloke that wouldn't accept the terms.

[Skyman]

I understand it but think it’s a cheek personally
If Rolex or the AD don’t like the fact they are getting flipped then why don’t they act ?
If you buy the piece surely it’s your call what you do next ?
I for one do not like it

Me, who cares? Flip or keep. Take your chances.

[Skyman]

I was told likewise!

And I happen to know I jumped in front of a bloke that wouldn't accept the terms.

I had a 5167, which I wanted to flip to buy a 5712, both from PP ADs. First AD had no problem releasing the Aquanaut’s certificate in order that I bought the Nautilus.

[d2ore]

Sorry I don’t understand your point ?




QUOTE=Skyman;5152216]Me, who cares? Flip or keep. Take your chances.[/QUOTE]

[Skyman]

Sorry I don’t understand your point ?




QUOTE=Skyman;5152216]Me, who cares? Flip or keep. Take your chances.

[/QUOTE]
Simple. If you intend to keep the watch, the absence of the warranty card (to be handed to you in 12 months, or shorter if need be) cannot be an issue.

[d2ore]

Yeah cool I totally agree


But what if you don’t want to keep it ? Say you loose your job or fall in love with an expensive woman !


What gives them the right to withhold something that comes as part of an overpriced watch ?


That’s my point 🤔





Simple. If you intend to keep the watch, the absence of the warranty card (to be handed to you in 12 months, or shorter if need be) cannot be an issue.[/QUOTE]

[Skyman]

Yeah cool I totally agree


But what if you don’t want to keep it ? Say you loose your job or fall in love with an expensive woman !


What gives them the right to withhold something that comes as part of an overpriced watch ?


That’s my point 樂






Simple. If you intend to keep the watch, the absence of the warranty card (to be handed to you in 12 months, or shorter if need be) cannot be an issue.

[/QUOTE]
Do not buy the watch in the first place.

[d2ore]

Yeah ok


QUOTE=Skyman;5152249][/QUOTE]
Do not buy the watch in the first place.[/QUOTE]

[W0rrybeads]

Well done for taking this up, and thank you for the update on this.

Getting what you have paid for is never wrong. And clearly, leaving parts of what you have paid for with an AD is no good when they actually lose your property!

A key point that is worth noting here is that the AD lost the items they had pledged to keep safe. This is quite interesting, isn't it. A cynic might wonder if the warranty card was really lost or ended up being sold elsewhere.

As a matter of interest, I take it that the County Court claim did not go to a hearing? If so, that is unfortunate because it would have been good to get a legal ruling on this, albeit County Court rulings aren't precedent setting.

Also, what was the outcome of the ADR/arbitration? I note that the arbitration had to be paid for by the AD and I cannot help but observe that could be a useful DoS vector for those who dislike this poor service by ADs.

I also question the need to correspond with the AD for three months. Were it me, a much shorter series of letters would have sufficed to establish that they weren't going to provide everything that should have been part of the overall product package. I'd also skip their own arbitration procedure, if possible, unless it could be used to bring cost pressure to bear.



If the aim by ADs in providing this poor level of service is to prevent sales into the grey market then, let's face it, it isn't working and (as I said months ago) cannot work. All it does is insult and inconvenience legitimate customers whilst doing nothing substantive to stop the grey channel. ADs are damaging their own reputation and sustainability by actively distrusting their own customers in this manner. I feel sure that they will come to regret it.

A few of points;
First point of action, trading standards you have to report it, I know as a result of my noise and pressure, there is now a written agreement that get signed at the point of sale and a letter in the post that tells you all the points you agreed to, at least from this AD Chain.
Before you go to ADR, you have to exhaust every avenue of reaching an amicable resolution with the retailer.Otherwise you can not open a case .
ADR wanted a copy of the terms and condition os sale, otherwise the retailer in their view can do what ever it wants, in an ADR I have to establish the facts , not the retailer. ADR is paid for by the retailer and their ruling is advisory only.
When you have exhausted ADR, you can go to a small claims court, it is a step that is necessary , at least I believe. As I said the process was handled by lawyers under Legal Cover of my home and contents insurance.
The dates for Small Claims in my area are 6 Months + , so there was no point.

I have switched from a Retail Chain Rolex AD, to a local family owned one, plus point is you do not need to put up with the crap, negative point, they don't have the volumes to get a lot of professional models.

[W0rrybeads]

lots of people buys these watches as there is a trade in them.

.

Cheers

I travel a lot for work and go through Heathrow T5 weekly, try and buy a Sub of GMT . There are 4400 BA pilots who have all put their names down for a one or both . Yes the Rolex/watches of Switzerland guys are polite and will take your name , but after a while they tell you no chance! You telling me they will all want to use the dual time of GMT when they can get a Rolex Explorer that does the same job or even a Tag Heuer GMT ? It is a bubble that will eventually burst and go back to normal, 400 years ago was Tulips, 20 years ago , beanie baby's and today we talk Rolex. :-)

[markrlondon]

there is now a written agreement that get signed at the point of sale and a letter in the post that tells you all the points you agreed to, at least from this AD Chain.

That's an improvement, from what I have heard.

Before you go to ADR, you have to exhaust every avenue of reaching an amicable resolution with the retailer.Otherwise you can not open a case .

That is reasonable, of course. The same as with court action. But all the same, if it were me doing it myself I don't think I would have gone to ADR or spent too much time establishing the facts with the retailer.

I have switched from a Retail Chain Rolex AD, to a local family owned one, plus point is you do not need to put up with the crap, negative point, they don't have the volumes to get a lot of professional models.

No matter what, it sounds like change for the better overall.

Many thanks for your feedback. Very informative.

[adg31]

I travel a lot for work and go through Heathrow T5 weekly, try and buy a Sub of GMT . There are 4400 BA pilots who have all put their names down for a one or both . Yes the Rolex/watches of Switzerland guys are polite and will take your name , but after a while they tell you no chance! You telling me they will all want to use the dual time of GMT when they can get a Rolex Explorer that does the same job or even a Tag Heuer GMT ? It is a bubble that will eventually burst and go back to normal, 400 years ago was Tulips, 20 years ago , beanie baby's and today we talk Rolex. :-)

I always kind of hope that pilots understand the principle of gravity: that what goes up must come down


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[Satori]

I travel a lot for work and go through Heathrow T5 weekly, try and buy a Sub of GMT . There are 4400 BA pilots who have all put their names down for a one or both . Yes the Rolex/watches of Switzerland guys are polite and will take your name , but after a while they tell you no chance! You telling me they will all want to use the dual time of GMT when they can get a Rolex Explorer that does the same job or even a Tag Heuer GMT ? It is a bubble that will eventually burst and go back to normal, 400 years ago was Tulips, 20 years ago , beanie baby's and today we talk Rolex. :-)

BA have fewer than 4000 pilots so, even in the utterly improbable event that every single BA pilot is on the list, that is a ridiculous assertion.

[W0rrybeads]

BA have fewer than 4000 pilots so, even in the utterly improbable event that every single BA pilot is on the list, that is a ridiculous assertion.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a9015001.html

They have more, but I was just making a general point, it was said in jest.

[UMBROSUS]

Surely if an AD under instruction from Rolex keeps a card from your purchase they should be made to replace the card.

Rolex chose to have the card retained by their own AD. They should surely accept responsibility for the consequence of their decisions.

[Nairn1980]

Surely if an AD under instruction from Rolex keeps a card from your purchase they should be made to replace the card.

Rolex chose to have the card retained by their own AD. They should surely accept responsibility for the consequence of their decisions.

Rolex don’t choose to have cards retained by their ADs....Card retention is an AD policy.

[RickS]

Rolex don’t choose to have cards retained by their ADs....Card retention is an AD policy.

"Recommended" to the AD by...........




Photo courtesy of 33JS from this thread https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...ighlight=rolex

[Mick P]

Good

If you don't like Rolex terms and conditions then the simple answer is to buy something else.

[Nairn1980]

"Recommended" to the AD by...........




Photo courtesy of 33JS from this thread https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...ighlight=rolex

Yep, I was aware of that letter.
Makes sense for ADs to have the policy

[LeBowl]

"Recommended" to the AD by...........




Photo courtesy of 33JS from this thread https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...ighlight=rolex

They are clever with their wording. In other words, do it or they will pull their AD status

[Enoch]

Just short of a year..... got a call from the AD to say that if I was in the area, please call in and collect your card, or if it wasn’t convenient they could post it out....I called in, had a chat and a coffee..

[UMBROSUS]

Rolex don’t choose to have cards retained by their ADs....Card retention is an AD policy.

It would at least to me to suggest they do require it.

Certainly when they are cutting AD numbers.

They (AD or Rolex) should be obliged to replace the items they withhold without the purchasers having requested it.

In my opinion going by the letter it’s only suggested ( sure it is a suggestion ) they remove stickers this should be done before the sale goes through or I should be asked for permission to meddle with my watch.

These I know are opinions this is mine for an expensive purchase

[RAJEN]

I think some people’s warranty cards shouldn’t just be withheld. They should be burnt or shredded in their presence:-)

Just my opinion

[forest172]

Just short of a year..... got a call from the AD to say that if I was in the area, please call in and collect your card, or if it wasn’t convenient they could post it out....I called in, had a chat and a coffee..

12 months fly by I can't see the issue here. Wonder how many Pepsi's will hit the Grey network now they've been out a good 12 months. I think we'll see a spike of them now advertised as a full set

I'd sooner they kept the card than rip the stickers off in front of you

I was lucky when I got my BLNR last October, told my AD car park ticket about to run out. She let me take it fully stickered and with card

[Hood]

I was lucky when I got my BLNR last October, told my AD car park ticket about to run out. She let me take it fully stickered and with card

Cool story bro

[robert75]

I think some people’s warranty cards shouldn’t just be withheld. They should be burnt or shredded in their presence:-)

Just my opinion

The complementary cup of coffee poured into their shirt pocket just for good measure too perhaps?

[W0rrybeads]

Blimey! That’s terrible, devious and very underhand. Even more so that you’ve spent a lot with them previously.

I wish you all the best in whichever route you take in resolving it.

Dear All , no more withholding of cards, Rolex issued an official notice to all Ad's

If in doubt call Rolex .

[adg31]

Dear All , no more withholding of cards, Rolex issued an official notice to all Ad's

If in doubt call Rolex .

I’ll never forget where I was when I heard this incredible news...
Surely this whole subject is now slightly irrelevant as you can’t find any of their sports watches in AD’s.


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[W0rrybeads]

I’ll never forget where I was when I heard this incredible news...
Surely this whole subject is now slightly irrelevant as you can’t find any of their sports watches in AD’s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yachtmaster 40 Everose gold in stock, picking up tomorrow, at the current price as on Jan 1st 7.4% price rise.
They also had a steel and Everose gold at half the price, so not as rare as you think, if you are not after a Hulk or Daytona you can get one.

For all those who thought it could not happen and they AD's had the law on their side, well the judge thought different.

[alanm_3]

Picked up my warranty card from Laings in Glasgow today for my BLNR that I purchased in September.
They also confirmed the price increase and no deliveries until the new year.

[~dadam02~]

Yachtmaster 40 Everose gold in stock, picking up tomorrow, at the current price as on Jan 1st 7.4% price rise.
They also had a steel and Everose gold at half the price, so not as rare as you think, if you are not after a Hulk or Daytona you can get one.

For all those who thought it could not happen and they AD's had the law on their side, well the judge thought different.

W0rrybeads, serious question, was it you who sued Rolex/AD for your warranty cards hixj lead to this whole backtrack of Ad's giving warranty cards back to customers?

[cheesycake7]

Been to my AD at least 5-6 times now since the news broke out and have even bought a few things from them. No mention of warranty cards at all still...

[alanm_3]

They won’t mention it unless you ask, or have one that’s held to ransom, in which case, you still have to ask!