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Thread: Rolex AD keeping guarantee card

  1. #551
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    Paper receipts and plastic cards are an anachronism. They are so easy to forge that it is unbelievable.

    The way forward is the same as your mobile phone security, thumb or finger recognition. You buy the Rolex, the AD digitally records your thumb and that can tell any other AD anywhere in the world that you are the genuine original owner.

    Papers and cards are ludicrous in this day and age.

  2. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Paper receipts and plastic cards are an anachronism. They are so easy to forge that it is unbelievable.

    The way forward is the same as your mobile phone security, thumb or finger recognition. You buy the Rolex, the AD digitally records your thumb and that can tell any other AD anywhere in the world that you are the genuine original owner.

    Papers and cards are ludicrous in this day and age.

    Yet another problem that can be solved with .... [drumroll] .... blockchain!


  3. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Paper receipts and plastic cards are an anachronism. They are so easy to forge that it is unbelievable.

    The way forward is the same as your mobile phone security, thumb or finger recognition. You buy the Rolex, the AD digitally records your thumb and that can tell any other AD anywhere in the world that you are the genuine original owner.

    Papers and cards are ludicrous in this day and age.
    Warranties are transferable. I doubt anyone will offer their thumb as part of the package.

  4. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Warranties are transferable. I doubt anyone will offer their thumb as part of the package.
    If they won't offer their thumb, they go without the warranty - easy peasy on that one.

    If appears that during 2019, the production of security print plummeted as it is, by its admission, open to fraud.

    Thumb recognition is being looked at for replacing everything such as keys for your front door, car doors, car ignition and even credit card purchase by replacing your PIN. Offering your thumb is going to become a part of daily life.
    Last edited by Mick P; 23rd December 2019 at 10:36.

  5. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    If they won't offer their thumb, they go without the warranty - easy peasy on that one.

    If appears that during 2019, the production of security print plummeted as it is, by its admission, open to fraud.

    Thumb recognition is being looked at for replacing everything such as keys for your front door, car doors, car ignition and even credit card purchase by replacing your PIN. Offering your thumb is going to become a part of daily life.
    What an idiotic statement. ADs are legally obliged to offer warranty to retail customers, they will never be able to force you to offer your thumb or to ask seller and buyer to come to the store to register a new thumb for the warranty.

    Complete and utter nonsense.

  6. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    What an idiotic statement. ADs are legally obliged to offer warranty to retail customers, they will never be able to force you to offer your thumb or to ask seller and buyer to come to the store to register a new thumb for the warranty.

    Complete and utter nonsense.
    I see you are playing the smart ass again.

    The decision whether to make a sale or not is down to the buyer and the seller.

    It is perfectly legal for a buyer to invalidate his protection by refusing to comply with the terms of a sale. Therefore the buyer has the choice of not to buy or he can render the warranty invalid by refusing to offer his thumb. His choice.

  7. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I see you are playing the smart ass again.

    The decision whether to make a sale or not is down to the buyer and the seller.

    It is perfectly legal for a buyer to invalidate his protection by refusing to comply with the terms of a sale. Therefore the buyer has the choice of not to buy or he can render the warranty invalid by refusing to offer his thumb. His choice.
    The AD cannot force the thumb on the first buyer and they cannot invalidate the warranty because the subsequent buyer doesn't want to give his thumb either. Warranty is a legal requirement and cannot be made subject to conditions (not even the presence of the warranty card as long as the buyer can prove the purchase date).

    What is so difficult about that?

  8. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesycake7 View Post
    Been to my AD at least 5-6 times now since the news broke out and have even bought a few things from them. No mention of warranty cards at all still...
    Doesn't sound like you're asking the right questions

  9. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesycake7 View Post
    Been to my AD at least 5-6 times now since the news broke out
    5/6 times since last week?! Or did I see the announcement late.

  10. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Paper receipts and plastic cards are an anachronism. They are so easy to forge that it is unbelievable.

    The way forward is the same as your mobile phone security, thumb or finger recognition. You buy the Rolex, the AD digitally records your thumb and that can tell any other AD anywhere in the world that you are the genuine original owner.

    Papers and cards are ludicrous in this day and age.
    The WATCH is warrantied - not the purchaser. You donít need to prove ownership of a watch to get warranty cover.

  11. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    The WATCH is warrantied - not the purchaser. You donít need to prove ownership of a watch to get warranty cover.
    Then why all the fuss over retaining cards.

  12. #562
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    Because some people are anal about Ďa complete packageí
    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

  13. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~dadam02~ View Post
    Doesn't sound like you're asking the right questions
    Havenít asked - particularly cause Iím not in any rush to obtain them but more importantly, wanted to see how long it will take them to mention it to me themselves if I never asked.

  14. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesycake7 View Post
    Havenít asked - particularly cause Iím not in any rush to obtain them but more importantly, wanted to see how long it will take them to mention it to me themselves if I never asked.
    I ended up having to chase Goldsmiths for my warranty card in the end. I was never desperate for it but by month 13 I thought that was enough time to conclude that they weren't going to ring me first.

  15. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    If they won't offer their thumb, they go without the warranty - easy peasy on that one.

    If appears that during 2019, the production of security print plummeted as it is, by its admission, open to fraud.

    Thumb recognition is being looked at for replacing everything such as keys for your front door, car doors, car ignition and even credit card purchase by replacing your PIN. Offering your thumb is going to become a part of daily life.
    You completely missed my point. I was talking about the secondary market.

  16. #566
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    I popped in with chocolates and my AD returned my warranty card without me asking (and before I'd brought out the chocolates).

  17. #567
    Quote Originally Posted by jukeboxs View Post
    I popped in with chocolates and my AD returned my warranty card without me asking (and before I'd brought out the chocolates).
    Are customers expected to buy gifts for shopkeepers now?

  18. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Are customers expected to buy gifts for shopkeepers now?
    Thatís clearly where I have been going wrong...

  19. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Are customers expected to buy gifts for shopkeepers now?


    Not at all , but many do on a regular basis as a thank you for good service.

  20. #570
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    Rolex AD keeping guarantee card

    No expectations - Iím sure you donít actually believe that. I also took chocolates into my local Skoda dealer and to the guys at the local refuse centre / tip. Great service and nice people.

  21. #571
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    Just reading the last 25 or so posts and Iím dumbfounded where we are, ADís are being treated like some higher force, like they are the master of all........ HELLO!!
    YOU are the customer, YOU give them YOUR money, they need YOUR money to pay the bills, in yet YOU accept their silly games with waiting lists, this then makes YOU even more desperate, so when they SUMMON YOU to say your time has come YOU agree to anything they say, NO stickers, NO outer box, NO hang tag, NO WARRANTY CARDS!

    To me it is madness, I have never and probably will never buy from an AD for reasons that I donít like new watches, so I find it totally ridiculous that customers are being treated in such a way and even more crazy we accept it

    Saying that I donít entirely blame the ADís, Rolex marketing has whipped up the frenzy and customers are cashing in, I feel this causes angst and jealousy amoung ADís and the silliness begins..

    Winner winner chicken dinner will always be Rolex, we just happily play their game!

  22. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    Just reading the last 25 or so posts and Iím dumbfounded where we are, ADís are being treated like some higher force, like they are the master of all........ HELLO!!
    YOU are the customer, YOU give them YOUR money, they need YOUR money to pay the bills, in yet YOU accept their silly games with waiting lists, this then makes YOU even more desperate, so when they SUMMON YOU to say your time has come YOU agree to anything they say, NO stickers, NO outer box, NO hang tag, NO WARRANTY CARDS!

    To me it is madness, I have never and probably will never buy from an AD for reasons that I donít like new watches, so I find it totally ridiculous that customers are being treated in such a way and even more crazy we accept it

    Saying that I donít entirely blame the ADís, Rolex marketing has whipped up the frenzy and customers are cashing in, I feel this causes angst and jealousy amoung ADís and the silliness begins..

    Winner winner chicken dinner will always be Rolex, we just happily play their game!
    Let me run a scenario for you, it could be real or it could be fantasy! I go to an AD, they have a watch that I want , I ask the price , it is 40% more than retail ! I ask how come ? They answer it is pre-owned , but it still has all the stickers on it. My conclusion they sold it to a chum, who sold it back to them , so that they can make a nice chunck of profit. Create a false bubble and you create a lot of issues. Short term , there is a market gain as people buy any model as they think they can make a profit on it. Also AP and PP have also gained market share due to the market shortages.

    On the subject of pre-owned, I am after a Turn-O-Graph , where do I buy a genuine one with papers. I am always afraid of buying something that does not have the original papers, or is this silly.

  23. #573



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  24. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0rrybeads View Post
    On the subject of pre-owned, I am after a Turn-O-Graph , where do I buy a genuine one with papers. I am always afraid of buying something that does not have the original papers, or is this silly.
    What do you think papers prove?

    How do they prove it?

  25. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0rrybeads View Post
    Let me run a scenario for you, it could be real or it could be fantasy! I go to an AD, they have a watch that I want , I ask the price , it is 40% more than retail ! I ask how come ? They answer it is pre-owned , but it still has all the stickers on it. My conclusion they sold it to a chum, who sold it back to them , so that they can make a nice chunck of profit. Create a false bubble and you create a lot of issues. Short term , there is a market gain as people buy any model as they think they can make a profit on it. Also AP and PP have also gained market share due to the market shortages.

    On the subject of pre-owned, I am after a Turn-O-Graph , where do I buy a genuine one with papers. I am always afraid of buying something that does not have the original papers, or is this silly.
    Faking a passable watch is not easy.

    Faking papers is a piece of cake. Even Rolex would not know the difference.

    Anyone who relies on a piece of paper as a source of comfort is a prize mug beloved by forgers.

    What usually happens is that genuine watches without papers are resold with fake papers costing £50 max and resold for an extra £1000. Very profitable indeed. That watch is then innocently sold on again a few years later to another mug and then again ad infinitum. Everyone of them paying top price thanks to a cheap bit of paper.

    If you don't trust your own judgement, play safe and buy from a reputable dealer.
    Last edited by Mick P; 24th December 2019 at 12:06.

  26. #576
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    What happened to your October resolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Hi

    Fellow members of the forum have indicated that they are fed up of me talking about forged papers, so it's now firmly off the agenda.

    However, feel free to pm me if you so wish. I did not work for HMRC but I worked for Royal Mail and was in charge of the purchase of Stamps.

  27. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    What happened to your October resolution?
    True but helping someone from overpaying for a bit of worthless paper a few times a year is more helpful than rambling on daily about dual membership etc.

  28. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    True but helping someone from overpaying for a bit of worthless paper a few times a year is more helpful than rambling on daily about dual membership etc.

    You are correct; and the forum is forever thankful. These are some of the few times from 2019:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...fake papers...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...so easy to forge...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...forging original papers...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...fake documentation...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...fake papers...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...easier to fake...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...stickered with paper...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...papers which are a piece of cake to forge...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...faking papers is dead easy...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...set of papers...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...Fake booklet...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...mugs who assume that the papers on a watch are a sign of authenticity...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...fake papers...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...papers that can be easily faked...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...fake replica papers...

    Oh, and there are these:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I have vowed never to mention fake p****s again because no one wanted to know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...will mention it a lot less from now on. Repetition is the curse of TZ-UK.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...I have made myself a promise not to mention my most prolific topic...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...they are fed up of me talking about forged papers, so it's now firmly off the agenda...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    ...I no longer give a damn...

  29. #579
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    Raffe

    This is the sort of creepy rubbish that should be restricted to the BP and it would be dead easy for me to do the same to you in reverse but I just can't be bothered.

    However you are the master policeman around here and if you don't want me to contribute to this forum, I will just gracefully bow out. Life is too short to bother with someone like you.

  30. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    True but helping someone from overpaying for a bit of worthless paper a few times a year is more helpful than rambling on daily about dual membership etc.
    The next buyer will also overpay so does add 'value' to the watch.

  31. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Raffe

    This is the sort of creepy rubbish that should be restricted to the BP and it would be dead easy for me to do the same to you in reverse but I just can't be bothered.

    However you are the master policeman around here and if you don't want me to contribute to this forum, I will just gracefully bow out. Life is too short to bother with someone like you.
    Forever playing the victim. Merry Christmas.

  32. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Forever playing the victim. Merry Christmas.
    You could cause trouble in an empty room...

  33. #583
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Raffe

    This is the sort of creepy rubbish that should be restricted to the BP and it would be dead easy for me to do the same to you in reverse but I just can't be bothered.

    However you are the master policeman around here and if you don't want me to contribute to this forum, I will just gracefully bow out. Life is too short to bother with someone like you.
    Don't pay any attention , stick around mate

    👍🏻

  34. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Faking papers is a piece of cake. Even Rolex would not know the difference.
    [...]
    If you don't trust your own judgement, play safe and buy from a reputable dealer.
    If Rolex themselves cannot distinguish between real and forged papers (which I do not dispute), how can you be certain that the reputable dealer hasn't (innocently) taken in a real watch with forged papers, and is now selling them to you?!

  35. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Faking a passable watch is not easy.

    Faking papers is a piece of cake. Even Rolex would not know the difference.

    Anyone who relies on a piece of paper as a source of comfort is a prize mug beloved by forgers.

    What usually happens is that genuine watches without papers are resold with fake papers costing £50 max and resold for an extra £1000. Very profitable indeed. That watch is then innocently sold on again a few years later to another mug and then again ad infinitum. Everyone of them paying top price thanks to a cheap bit of paper.

    If you don't trust your own judgement, play safe and buy from a reputable dealer.

    wise words indeed with so many fakes around.

  36. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenlec View Post
    Hi all
    Can the AD lawfully hold onto the guarantee card for 12 months when you buy a watch even if you say no ?
    Legally they cannot.
    The card is the most important evidence to proff it is genuine.
    You bought it. It is no lease, rent or anything like that.

    Imagine they loose it.... 😳

  37. #587
    Quote Originally Posted by jur View Post
    Legally they cannot.
    The card is the most important evidence to proff it is genuine.
    You bought it. It is no lease, rent or anything like that.

    Imagine they loose it.... 
    Yes they could, by not telling the customer, telling them verbally (verbal contract) or some would give you a paper with such words, as discussed with a colleague, we will hold the original for 12 months and give you a duplicate ( due to trading standards intervention) . 2 Months ago as a result of a court case the judge ruled that, removing the certificate of authentication, is not lawful . Rolex informed all AD's to stop the process. A few members of this forum did not think there was a case in law, the judge obviously happened to be more qualified :-)
    Now there is a law of precedence .

  38. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by W0rrybeads View Post
    Yes they could, by not telling the customer, telling them verbally (verbal contract) or some would give you a paper with such words, as discussed with a colleague, we will hold the original for 12 months and give you a duplicate ( due to trading standards intervention) . 2 Months ago as a result of a court case the judge ruled that, removing the certificate of authentication, is not lawful . Rolex informed all AD's to stop the process. A few members of this forum did not think there was a case in law, the judge obviously happened to be more qualified :-)
    Now there is a law of precedence .
    That said some ADs are not releasing the warranty cards and are saying they have not been advised anything from Rolex themselves

  39. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by awright101 View Post
    That said some ADs are not releasing the warranty cards and are saying they have not been advised anything from Rolex themselves
    You have 3 choices, wait or tell them you will start Legal Proceeding against them, as there is a precedence in Law, it is an open and shut case and if they contest it, you will have costs awarded as well. But their lawyers will know that. Last option, call Rolex Customer Relations and mention the AD , let them deal with it.

  40. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by W0rrybeads View Post
    You have 3 choices, wait or tell them you will start Legal Proceeding against them, as there is a precedence in Law, it is an open and shut case and if they contest it, you will have costs awarded as well. But their lawyers will know that. Last option, call Rolex Customer Relations and mention the AD , let them deal with it.
    Sorry, there is also a fourth option.
    Stop playing these ludicrous games and move on to another brand


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  41. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0rrybeads View Post
    You have 3 choices, wait or tell them you will start Legal Proceeding against them, as there is a precedence in Law, it is an open and shut case and if they contest it, you will have costs awarded as well. But their lawyers will know that. Last option, call Rolex Customer Relations and mention the AD , let them deal with it.


    Iíve bought Rolex three watches in the last two years , one warranty card held back but now returned , two warranty cards still held back but causing me no concern at all.

    Next time Iím in town I might walk in and ask if theyíve changed their policy , thatís if I remember.

    Some folk including you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, You worry too much about something relatively trivial , Iíd be amazed in their lawyers knew they withheld the warranty card in the first place.

    Before you bring legal precedents into the argument, I really couldnít give a monkies.

  42. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0rrybeads View Post
    2 Months ago as a result of a court case the judge ruled that, removing the certificate of authentication, is not lawful . Rolex informed all AD's to stop the process. A few members of this forum did not think there was a case in law, the judge obviously happened to be more qualified :-)
    Now there is a law of precedence .
    There have been various mentions of this "court case" on here. Can you please let us know which specific case it was (especially if it was decided in a court which establishes precedence), as a number of us would like to read the court transcript and precise rulings for that case? If you could provide a link to the case, that would be even more helpful.

  43. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post
    There have been various mentions of this "court case" on here. Can you please let us know which specific case it was (especially if it was decided in a court which establishes precedence), as a number of us would like to read the court transcript and precise rulings for that case? If you could provide a link to the case, that would be even more helpful.


    Donít hold your breath.

  44. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0rrybeads View Post
    No more posts until there is an outcome from various bodies like Trading Standards . All I was doing is to point out there are options open to the buyers, based on various consumer protections laws. If nothing else, it will answer a few threads if it is legal or not, guess I will find out for sure.
    Did you bring a civil action?

    Did Trading Standards enter into any correspondence?

    If not you, what are the specifics of any case the was brought by anyone, against Rolex or main agent?

    People are citing judgement and precedent, so let's see it.

  45. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    Did you bring a civil action?

    Did Trading Standards enter into any correspondence?

    If not you, what are the specifics of any case the was brought by anyone, against Rolex or main agent?

    People are citing judgement and precedent, so let's see it.
    Well something certainly changed, and it isn't like WoS and the like just decided to stop playing silly buggers in the spirit of Xmas. That said I'm surprised nothing has been found yet backing up this 'case' and w0rrybeads is definitely holding back something.

  46. #596
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    This might go some way to explain it

    https://youtu.be/xlrcEEIhyis
    Cheers,

    Ben



    ..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers


    " an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "

  47. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~dadam02~ View Post
    Well something certainly changed, and it isn't like WoS and the like just decided to stop playing silly buggers in the spirit of Xmas. That said I'm surprised nothing has been found yet backing up this 'case' and w0rrybeads is definitely holding back something.
    Yes, that it came from a friend of a cousinís ex-husbandís brother, who got it direct from the court-reporterís nephewís friend who met with the brother down the pub - by chance.......... and after a few libations - related the true story.

    Iím sold!

  48. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by adg31 View Post
    Sorry, there is also a fourth option.
    Stop playing these ludicrous games and move on to another brand


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    One of the best comments of 2019 IMHO!

  49. #599
    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    Did you bring a civil action?

    Did Trading Standards enter into any correspondence?

    If not you, what are the specifics of any case the was brought by anyone, against Rolex or main agent?

    People are citing judgement and precedent, so let's see it.
    Yes, it was a civil action
    yes to trading standards
    yes to ADR ! (you have to)
    Rolex are distributors, they did not hold back anything. The case was always against the AD's practice.
    on the last one, go and find it , because it mentions the AD and I am not prepared to disclose it.

    Am I holding something back, yes.
    Are there AD's on this board masquerading as enthusiasts/customers, yes !

    Funny on a Rolex discussion board a bright spark mentions the 4th option of not buying a Rolex , love it.

    Right along I said, I will report back, which I have done.
    I guess no more discussions on Rolex AD's withholding Guarantee Card/Certificate of Authentication.
    Case closed, time to move on.

  50. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0rrybeads View Post
    The case was always against the AD's practice.
    on the last one, go and find it ,
    Are you saying it's in the public domain? If so, just post a link.


    Quote Originally Posted by W0rrybeads View Post
    Funny on a Rolex discussion board a bright spark mentions the 4th option of not buying a Rolex , love it.
    Although Rolex is a popular discussion topic, this isn't a Rolex discussion board.
    Last edited by David_D; 27th December 2019 at 14:17.

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