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Thread: ANOTHER mass killing in US

  1. #1
    Master John Wall's Avatar
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    ANOTHER mass killing in US

    At least 17 students killed by expelled ex pupil.
    Set off fire alarm then shot them as they exited building.

    “How long must we sing this song ?”

  2. #2
    Until they scrap the 2nd amendment

  3. #3
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    Sadly, as long as people wear NFL-like shirts with 'AMENDMENT 2' on the back in an amusement park, there's little chance that it will ever change. For those of us visiting the US: go out and visit the Bass Pro Shop and see for yourself. Their weapons department is the busiest department in the store!

  4. #4
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    It's their country - they can run it how they want.

  5. #5
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    There’s no point non-Americans discussing it as we just don’t understand. No point in trying to spark a debate with the NRA as there’s nothing to debate. Just leave Americans to get on with it. Apparently young lives needlessly lost are a price worth paying for the right to bear arms. Who are we to challenge that logic?

  6. #6
    Master dejjl's Avatar
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    The Administration won't take the gun lobby on as it is socially and politically (but not ethically IMO) too powerful. Very sad times.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzler View Post
    It's their country - they can run it how they want.
    Not what the op asked

  8. #8
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    All of my adult life I've read about killings in the USA (the land of the free), at around 3am this morning I read about this latest 'mass' killing and for about 10 seconds considered starting a thread very much like this one, then I turned over and went back to sleep, it's a none story.

    The deaths are meaningless unless you're directly affected, I live 3000 miles away from America, I, like many others think the 2nd amendment is a pointless throwback to another age, but I suspect 'most' Americans will just go out and buy another gun, the logical conclusion will be that someday soon teachers and pupils will all be allowed to take guns to school, which should make 'history' lessons such as
    the shoot out at the 'ok corral' entertaining at the very least.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Not what the op asked
    Post police alert!!

  10. #10
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    Post police alert!!
    Morning Mike, how's the ribs?
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Morning Mike, how's the ribs?
    Ok mate, not hurting much!!
    hows the arm?

  12. #12
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    Ok mate, not hurting much!!
    hows the arm?
    Sore as a sore thing thanks, physio is punishing

    Pleased to hear the ribs are healing, work again soon?
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  13. #13
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    work again soon?
    Hopefully not, enjoying being home for a while.

  14. #14
    Craftsman
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    Really sad thing is that I'm not surprised by news events like this anymore.

  15. #15
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    Hopefully not, enjoying being home for a while.
    Sounds like a plan.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  16. #16
    Master Tony's Avatar
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    Shithole country.

  17. #17
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seabiscuit View Post
    There’s no point non-Americans discussing it as we just don’t understand. No point in trying to spark a debate with the NRA as there’s nothing to debate. Just leave Americans to get on with it. Apparently young lives needlessly lost are a price worth paying for the right to bear arms. Who are we to challenge that logic?
    ^ The simple truth. Apparently it's more important to spend 100 billion Dollars on a pointless wall than to do something against the real problems. As you said, who are we to challenge that logic?
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by seabiscuit View Post
    There’s no point non-Americans discussing it as we just don’t understand. No point in trying to spark a debate with the NRA as there’s nothing to debate. Just leave Americans to get on with it. Apparently young lives needlessly lost are a price worth paying for the right to bear arms. Who are we to challenge that logic?
    I agree. To the rest of the civilised world, it appears utter, utter madness (particularly wrt assault rifles etc). I was in the US at the time of the Las Vegas shootings, and to be fair, to many Americans it’s utter madness as well.

    Nutters aside, I think the 2nd anmemdrment is the poster-boy issue for Americans’ obsession with their “rights”, so for many, it’s gone beyond the issue itself, to a point of principle. (Maybe that’s the only way to rationalise otherwise reasonable people condoning such madness).

  19. #19
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    18th School shooting of 2018??? Fair enough not all of them were mass-murders, but still, they need to sort their country out.

  20. #20
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevkojak View Post
    18th School shooting of 2018??? Fair enough not all of them were mass-murders, but still, they need to sort their country out.
    Well, they are showing no real interest to sort it out - isn't that the conundrum at hand?
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  21. #21
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    For each little Einstein killed in one of those school shootings there are at least a couple of Charlie Manson. That probably makes it acceptable to them. Sad.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  22. #22
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    These fools should see what a modern high velocity round does to a human being, especially a child, then they can argue about their right to own military grade weapons.
    J

  23. #23
    Master Jardine32's Avatar
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    Oh and they should also look up the definition of the word amendment.
    J

  24. #24
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    Even the parents of the kids involved are trying to argue that this ISN'T a gun control issue, it's a problem with society in general.

    Bullsh... Don't give a 19 year old psycho with "issues" access to an AR-15 and maybe your country will be a safer place.

    No point discussing the topic, it's never going to change, certainly not in any of our lifetimes. I read a very interesting article that Remington have gone bankrupt under Trump because he's so lenient on guns. Under Obama there was always the threat of tougher legislation and even a ban on some of the higher grade (military?) gear, so Americans went out and bought by the wheelbarrow-load just in case! Ridiculous...

  25. #25
    Not much point caring about this problem when the US couldn’t care less about it. Why even report it on the news anymore?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by seabiscuit View Post
    There’s no point non-Americans discussing it as we just don’t understand. No point in trying to spark a debate with the NRA as there’s nothing to debate. Just leave Americans to get on with it. Apparently young lives needlessly lost are a price worth paying for the right to bear arms. Who are we to challenge that logic?
    I totally agree. We object when other countries try to tell us how to live our lives and what laws to live by, we should extend the same courtesy to others.

  27. #27
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Lots of Americans are disturbed by it, but..

    The statistic shows the percentage of households in the United States which own firearms from 1972 to 2017. In 2017, about 42 percent of U.S. households had at least one gun in possession. Firearms command a higher degree of cultural significance in the United States than any other country in the world.
    ...obviously plenty are prepared to own guns (The numbers seem to vary, but these are recent and broadly in line with most - 35% - 45%)

    There's an image presented by some (in the US and outside) that it's only a nutcase minority in the US that owns guns, but if it is, there's an awful lot of nutcases there!

    M

  28. #28
    Craftsman
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    Always wonder how it'd feel if those who are pro guns had their families involved with a tragedy such as this....

  29. #29
    Master Albellisimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    Lots of Americans are disturbed by it, but..



    ...obviously plenty are prepared to own guns (The numbers seem to vary, but these are recent and broadly in line with most - 35% - 45%)

    There's an image presented by some (in the US and outside) that it's only a nutcase minority in the US that owns guns, but if it is, there's an awful lot of nutcases there!

    M
    Find that hard to believe having lived in the US. But the middle bit is fairly mad. Rule of thumb is that if you can see the sea there's a level of sanity.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    For each little Einstein killed in one of those school shootings there are at least a couple of Charlie Manson. That probably makes it acceptable to them. Sad.

    Here's stats since 2012:
    Bad Guys Killed By Guns: 94.
    Normal everyday guys Killed By Guns: 133,867.

  31. #31
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albellisimo View Post
    Find that hard to believe having lived in the US. But the middle bit is fairly mad. Rule of thumb is that if you can see the sea there's a level of salinity.
    Undoubtedly
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  32. #32
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    It’s happens so many times but still they persist with these ludicrous gun laws. Mind you it says it all when the serving President states we need guns for our protection. I thought that was a job for the Police

  33. #33
    I found it to be an amazing country full of interesting things. But this constant excuse for mass murder is a cancer on the place.

  34. #34
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    Heard an interview with a pupil caught up in it..........

    ”I didn’t realise what was going on until someone sent me a video of a teacher covered in blood”

    In the midst of it all - it’s like another pageant to them....... “OMG! I’m here! Look at my video!”

    All you can do - is buy up shares in Remington Firearms and Hallmark Cards- and let them get on with it.

  35. #35
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    Heard an interview with a pupil caught up in it..........

    ”I didn’t realise what was going on until someone sent me a video of a teacher covered in blood”

    In the midst of it all - it’s like another pageant to them....... “OMG! I’m here! Look at my video!”

    All you can do - is buy up shares in Remington Firearms and Hallmark Cards- and let them get on with it.
    Ironic that remington is actually going under administration it seems.

  36. #36
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albellisimo View Post
    Find that hard to believe having lived in the US. But the middle bit is fairly mad. Rule of thumb is that if you can see the sea there's a level of sanity.
    So, what's that, about 100 yards from the coast and the odd hill?

    M

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    Heard an interview with a pupil caught up in it..........

    ”I didn’t realise what was going on until someone sent me a video of a teacher covered in blood”

    In the midst of it all - it’s like another pageant to them....... “OMG! I’m here! Look at my video!”

    All you can do - is buy up shares in Remington Firearms and Hallmark Cards- and let them get on with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Allwatches View Post
    Ironic that remington is actually going under administration it seems.

    The firearm industry was riding high during the run-up to the 2016 election. Hillary Clinton was favored to win, and an array of gun rights advocates warned of a looming Second Amendment crackdown. Earlier that year, President Barack Obama had stoked similar fears by proposing to expand federal background checks. Firearm purchases soared.

    That hoariest of right-wing boogeymen - a new Democratic administration hellbent on taking everyone's guns - had returned. One Las Vegas gun store even advertised a "pre-Hillary" sale. "Don't wait!" it cautioned. "Prices will skyrocket after Crooked Hillary gets in." Between December 2015 and December 2016, the FBI reported record numbers of background checks.

    President Donald Trump's upset over Clinton seems to have helped reverse all that. Fears of a crackdown have tapered off under a president who called himself a "true friend" of the National Rifle Association. And so have gun sales.

    It's against that backdrop that the legendary gun manufacturer Remington on Monday said it would file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...213-story.html
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  38. #38
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    According to Trump, it was the pupils' own fault: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0ab6daf468ba3
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  39. #39
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    According to Trump, it was the pupils' own fault: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0ab6daf468ba3
    Not surprising. Nothing new.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Albellisimo View Post
    Find that hard to believe having lived in the US. But the middle bit is fairly mad. Rule of thumb is that if you can see the sea there's a level of sanity.
    I guess you have to be very careful in characterising a nation of 320m+ in broad terms (much like grouping the Brits with the French, or even someone in London with the Highlands of Scotland), but certainly in general, it seems to be the mid/southern, overly-religious (ironically) folk that seem to the support-base of the kind of thinking/denial that prevents gun reform. They're clearly too big a proportion of the electorate to allow progress.

    I get the impression that a lot of Americans on the East Coast and West Coast find the thinking of these people pretty baffling as well.

    I do think there's also some misguided libertarianism to blame amongst the supposedly more-enlightened though.

  41. #41
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Not a lot to say really, except my thoughts go to the victims and there families.

    Hopefully the US (and other countries like Mexico) will start to see sense soon, but I fear the genie is already well out of the bottle.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  42. #42
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Sadly, I think there is an element of US society that is dysfunctional.

    The right to bear arms?

    Against who?

    When the US Pres. suggests on TV and via social media the teachers having guns would enable them to respond.......
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  43. #43
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    I don’t think it’s just the guns, and completely endorse the dysfunctional bit.
    They have the largest percentage of their population in jail, the highest number of crimes per capita (not all armed) and I am indeed convinced that if we removed magically all guns a significant percentage would still manage to kill each other using baseball bats.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  44. #44
    Master -Ally-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Shithole country.

  45. #45
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    I don’t think it’s just the guns, and completely endorse the dysfunctional bit.
    They have the largest percentage of their population in jail, the highest number of crimes per capita (not all armed) and I am indeed convinced that if we removed magically all guns a significant percentage would still manage to kill each other using baseball bats.
    Indeed - they have had generations of people who believe they have to protect themselves.......from what?
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  46. #46
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post

    Against who?

    .

    Against the actions of their own federal and state government.

    We often forget that they had a civil War which killed 100'000's of Americans. One battle saw over 13,000 men butchered in 20 minutes.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  47. #47
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Indeed - they have had generations of people who believe they have to protect themselves.......from what?
    Each other.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  48. #48
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Against the actions of their own federal and state government.

    We often forget that they had a civil War which killed 100'000's of Americans. One battle saw over 13,000 men butchered in 20 minutes.
    I had not forgotten Andy - holding onto this old tradition and belief is largely misguided.

    Noble, but not worthy of what keeps happening.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  49. #49
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    I had not forgotten Andy - holding onto this old tradition and beleif is largely misguided.

    Noble, but not worthy of what keeps happening.

    Its not a tradition, it part is part of their constitution and enshrined in Law. The only way I can see it changing would be if it subject to a referendum, and I am not sure the anti-gun lobby would win. Plus what happens if some states vote for and some against. Civil war! The breakup of the Union, etc, etc.

    If the Federal govenment tried to change it without a vote, then it would simply play in to hands of gun lobby and could lead to a much more dangerous situation - see above.

    The situation in the US is dire, but it's not going to change without a mandate from the people.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  50. #50
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    That may come (with time)......

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Its not a tradition, it part is part of their constitution and enshrined in Law. The only way I can see it changing would be if it subject to a referendum, and I am not sure the anti-gun lobby would win. Plus what happens if some states vote for and some against. Civil war! The breakup of the Union, etc, etc.

    If the Federal govenment tried to change it without a vote, then it would simply play in to hands of gun lobby and could lead to a much more dangerous situation - see above.

    The situation in the US is dire, but it's not going to change without a mandate from the people.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

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