At least 17 students killed by expelled ex pupil.
Set off fire alarm then shot them as they exited building.
“How long must we sing this song ?”
At least 17 students killed by expelled ex pupil.
Set off fire alarm then shot them as they exited building.
“How long must we sing this song ?”
Until they scrap the 2nd amendment
Sadly, as long as people wear NFL-like shirts with 'AMENDMENT 2' on the back in an amusement park, there's little chance that it will ever change. For those of us visiting the US: go out and visit the Bass Pro Shop and see for yourself. Their weapons department is the busiest department in the store!
It's their country - they can run it how they want.
There’s no point non-Americans discussing it as we just don’t understand. No point in trying to spark a debate with the NRA as there’s nothing to debate. Just leave Americans to get on with it. Apparently young lives needlessly lost are a price worth paying for the right to bear arms. Who are we to challenge that logic?
The Administration won't take the gun lobby on as it is socially and politically (but not ethically IMO) too powerful. Very sad times.
^ The simple truth. Apparently it's more important to spend 100 billion Dollars on a pointless wall than to do something against the real problems. As you said, who are we to challenge that logic?Originally Posted by seabiscuit
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I agree. To the rest of the civilised world, it appears utter, utter madness (particularly wrt assault rifles etc). I was in the US at the time of the Las Vegas shootings, and to be fair, to many Americans it’s utter madness as well.
Nutters aside, I think the 2nd anmemdrment is the poster-boy issue for Americans’ obsession with their “rights”, so for many, it’s gone beyond the issue itself, to a point of principle. (Maybe that’s the only way to rationalise otherwise reasonable people condoning such madness).
I totally agree. We object when other countries try to tell us how to live our lives and what laws to live by, we should extend the same courtesy to others.
Not what the op asked
Post police alert!!
All of my adult life I've read about killings in the USA (the land of the free), at around 3am this morning I read about this latest 'mass' killing and for about 10 seconds considered starting a thread very much like this one, then I turned over and went back to sleep, it's a none story.
The deaths are meaningless unless you're directly affected, I live 3000 miles away from America, I, like many others think the 2nd amendment is a pointless throwback to another age, but I suspect 'most' Americans will just go out and buy another gun, the logical conclusion will be that someday soon teachers and pupils will all be allowed to take guns to school, which should make 'history' lessons such as
the shoot out at the 'ok corral' entertaining at the very least.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
At least this is one thing that Trump cannot change. I do agree that everyman has the right to bare arms but only if you can justify why they need to carry a weapon.
This is a point I find particularly interesting when people bring up that the constitution cannot be changed etc etc - the second amendment is an amendment (the clue is in the title!) - it could be amended.
Not really a weapon if you are just carrying a rifle to a range, or shotgun to a clay ground. Weapon is terminology used by antis.
This is a weapon...
https://youtu.be/UwSIxKZAs40?t=140
This is a rifle for the range...
https://youtu.be/TLzQynJEcww?t=41
M
that’s fine except when they have those awful trashy tattoos or decide to bare their corpulent quivering torso too.
Really sad thing is that I'm not surprised by news events like this anymore.
Shithole country.
For each little Einstein killed in one of those school shootings there are at least a couple of Charlie Manson. That probably makes it acceptable to them. Sad.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Here's stats since 2012:
Bad Guys Killed By Guns: 94.
Normal everyday guys Killed By Guns: 133,867.
These fools should see what a modern high velocity round does to a human being, especially a child, then they can argue about their right to own military grade weapons.
J
What the heck is a military grade weapon?
Machine guns?
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I wonder if someone took an automatic weapon to the NRA conference and let loose, would that help to change their minds?
No, because he'd be gunned down in seconds and they'd claim it supported their call for EVERYONE to be armed...
M
- - - Updated - - -
Guns designed for the military - Like the 5.56mm round that NATO use and semi-automatic weapons designed for it, like the AR15 (semi auto M16/M4).
M
Quite. But he would only need to stand in the crowd and fire a few shots and become the most successful mass shooter as they would all kill each other.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Not much difference between 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington (and most military firearms I have encountered had a 'fun' selector position that is rightly missing from Civilian versions). The term "military-grade" weapons is an ill-informed term employed by the press to scaremonger, and really detracts from a much more fundamental discussion around gun control.
Any semi auto, high capacity weapon, usually above 5.56mm.
J
Oh and they should also look up the definition of the word amendment.
J
Even the parents of the kids involved are trying to argue that this ISN'T a gun control issue, it's a problem with society in general.
Bullsh... Don't give a 19 year old psycho with "issues" access to an AR-15 and maybe your country will be a safer place.
No point discussing the topic, it's never going to change, certainly not in any of our lifetimes. I read a very interesting article that Remington have gone bankrupt under Trump because he's so lenient on guns. Under Obama there was always the threat of tougher legislation and even a ban on some of the higher grade (military?) gear, so Americans went out and bought by the wheelbarrow-load just in case! Ridiculous...
Not much point caring about this problem when the US couldn’t care less about it. Why even report it on the news anymore?
This is my view I am fed up with hearing about shootings in America, it is not news.
Lots of Americans are disturbed by it, but..
...obviously plenty are prepared to own guns (The numbers seem to vary, but these are recent and broadly in line with most - 35% - 45%)The statistic shows the percentage of households in the United States which own firearms from 1972 to 2017. In 2017, about 42 percent of U.S. households had at least one gun in possession. Firearms command a higher degree of cultural significance in the United States than any other country in the world.
There's an image presented by some (in the US and outside) that it's only a nutcase minority in the US that owns guns, but if it is, there's an awful lot of nutcases there!
M
Find that hard to believe having lived in the US. But the middle bit is fairly mad. Rule of thumb is that if you can see the sea there's a level of sanity.
Undoubtedly
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
It’s happens so many times but still they persist with these ludicrous gun laws. Mind you it says it all when the serving President states we need guns for our protection. I thought that was a job for the Police
I found it to be an amazing country full of interesting things. But this constant excuse for mass murder is a cancer on the place.
Heard an interview with a pupil caught up in it..........
”I didn’t realise what was going on until someone sent me a video of a teacher covered in blood”
In the midst of it all - it’s like another pageant to them....... “OMG! I’m here! Look at my video!”
All you can do - is buy up shares in Remington Firearms and Hallmark Cards- and let them get on with it.
So, what's that, about 100 yards from the coast and the odd hill?
M
I guess you have to be very careful in characterising a nation of 320m+ in broad terms (much like grouping the Brits with the French, or even someone in London with the Highlands of Scotland), but certainly in general, it seems to be the mid/southern, overly-religious (ironically) folk that seem to the support-base of the kind of thinking/denial that prevents gun reform. They're clearly too big a proportion of the electorate to allow progress.
I get the impression that a lot of Americans on the East Coast and West Coast find the thinking of these people pretty baffling as well.
I do think there's also some misguided libertarianism to blame amongst the supposedly more-enlightened though.
Not a lot to say really, except my thoughts go to the victims and there families.
Hopefully the US (and other countries like Mexico) will start to see sense soon, but I fear the genie is already well out of the bottle.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Sadly, I think there is an element of US society that is dysfunctional.
The right to bear arms?
Against who?
When the US Pres. suggests on TV and via social media the teachers having guns would enable them to respond.......
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Always wonder how it'd feel if those who are pro guns had their families involved with a tragedy such as this....
I don’t think it’s just the guns, and completely endorse the dysfunctional bit.
They have the largest percentage of their population in jail, the highest number of crimes per capita (not all armed) and I am indeed convinced that if we removed magically all guns a significant percentage would still manage to kill each other using baseball bats.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Indeed - they have had generations of people who believe they have to protect themselves.......from what?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Each other.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Their Government ........ so they believe
"if only they did not speak English" .......... we would think that they were foreigners, or a foreign country
Last edited by BillN; 18th February 2018 at 16:45.
Most people realise that this isn't just a gun issue however, for some bewildering reason you seem to struggle with the concept of this problem not being just a mental health issue.
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