Reply With QuoteMy builder dug down 900mm for our extension.Originally Posted by markrlondon
Although there was some drilling and digging (seemingly, as far as I could tell, through the edge of the old concrete floor of the open space area, i.e. the edge abutting the garden wall), seemingly to dig a foundation for the new inner wall, I can't believe they did anything as complex as underpinning the existing garden wall. That would, I would imagine, have taken rather longer than they actually took on that part of the job.Yep perhaps they underpinned the garden wall when they dug the foundation for the inner leaf? Surely building control is involved!?
My builder dug down 900mm for our extension.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
At this point I think call in professionals. It looks like they've filled the gap between the insulation and the garden wall with concrete and perhaps tied the new concrete with the garden wall?! I'm guessing here obviously as it's hard to know exactly what's been done. BUT, if they haven't built the foundations right to begin with that's a huge concern! Call the planners, a party wall surveyor and try and ascertain who is doing the building control (the council or a private company?) - have they even appointed anyone at all. If not they shouldn't have even started work!
If they have notified building control, they should visit at various stages of the build to make sure things are done correctly and will have evidence of this. (First stage is usually the foundations.)
And yep would expect about 1 m depth in clay for a normal trench foundation - more if trees nearby...
Last edited by Thorien; 12th February 2018 at 20:45.
They could have dug down that deep. I just couldn't see for sure, although my impression is that it was rather less than that.
For what it's worth, the foundation of the existing brick garden wall is less than that as I recall (but then it's not being expected to carry any weight).
I'm not an expert but I've recently finished a similar extension. I think the insulation isn't thick enough for an external wall. Also there should be a cavity next to the insulation. Otherwise damp will poor in.
I would have huge concerns if this is the case and the same builders are also removing walls and putting in the rsj.
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Also if they have built all that without building control involvement they will probably have to knock it down and start again!
And the existing garden wall will not have a damp proof course.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Here are some pics
After looking it looks like the kingspan is thick enough
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It doesn't bare thinking about.
We built another wall off our party wall, on a block floor. Due to an oak that's close we needed to go down nearly 2m!
Yup, phone calls tomorrow.
The visible fillet of cement rests on the protruding course of bricks on the garden wall (and anchors the insulation panels in place). This allows something aesthetically pleasing to be put on top of the cement fillet to cover the insulation panels later on.
I suppose, come to think of it, this begs the question of what fills the space between the insulation panels and the garden wall below the protruding course of bricks on the garden wall. Is it more (or thicker) insulation panels, is it cement, is it some kind of moisture barrier, or is it a void, or a combination? I don't know.
Is that black sheeting they used as a temporary cover for the wall some kind of moisture barrier material? If so, perhaps they used that to create a moisture barrier for their new wall.
Quite, although to be fair I have no direct evidence that they have not done the foundations for the new wall sections right.
Last edited by markrlondon; 12th February 2018 at 21:12.
Note that there could be a cavity next to the insulation panels out of sight below the protruding course of bricks on the garden wall. There is just about space for there to be cavity, I think.
Indeed but, at this stage, I have no reason to think that they have bypassed building control, although, as we have discussed, the new wall does seem too tall and they never issued the party wall notice, so who knows what else they've missed out, evaded or skimped on.
Indeed not. From the beginning I thought that they will need some pretty impressive moisture proofing in their new wall.
Hopefully they have taken drainage properly into account too, otherwise the problem will be worse.
Building inspector HAS to agree excavation is satisfactory and to an acceptable depth before the concrete is poured. Proper builders know this and work to it and often suggest pictures are taken should the property ever be sold as evidence/due diligence for new buyers.
The same would apply to any underpinning work.
The absence of a DPC is concerning due to them appearing to be using an existing garden wall - unless the build is going to be tanked out?
Lack of padstones under the RSJ’s is also concerning = also, the use of Kingspan sheets might also indicate a lack of ties between the old wall and the new?
Lots to get clarified.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
The wall which is using your garden wall as the external leaf is a bodge! Probably isn’t much concern to you, but the person who’s home it is will get some nasty damp issues at some point!
That's how I'd expect it to be done normally and yep trees play a huge role, we had to go down 3 m in the last house and we are piling the current one!
Nice work on your extension btw - looks like it was built well
Interesting. Despite what it may seem from the pics I've posted, I have not been watching them every minute they've been on site so it is entirely possible that a building inspector has been on site and approved everything.
I am fairly certain that they have done no underpinning (at least not of the garden wall).
"Tanked out" meaning waterproofed all round? That seems very unlikely. First time someone drills a hole in the wall to hang a picture it will spoil the waterproofing.
Kingspan sheets are the foam panels? I forgot to mention that there are just two metal ties visible attaching to the top of the garden wall (which didn't please me but was not enough on its own to cause an objection). You can see them in one of my pics above. It is entirely possible there are more ties between the breeze blocks and the garden wall out of sight below.
Yup, although from my/my mum's perspective at this stage, all that really concerns us is the apparently non-compliant height of the new wall next to the garden wall and the end wall (meaning that the roof will be considerably higher than it should be according to the plans). All else will stem from that. If we can get a surveyor in then we'll see what else he or she advises.
Yup, that's what I thought.
It's worth noting that the plans (as agreed by the council) in fact do seem to show the existing garden wall being used in this manner. I.e. The council was aware that they planned to use the party garden wall like this.
Either someone knows what they are doing or... not.
From a planning point of view it is acceptable - that has nothing to do with construction though, that's where building control should come in. There are things they could do re the damp course for example they could inject a liquid membrane into the wall from both sides which does actually work. Just as they could use steel bearing plates instead of padstones (but from the photos - they haven't!) They really should have dug a proper trench for the foundation though and underpinned the existing garden wall - if you don't think they did it seems to me like building control either haven't been notified / or they are using a private firm for building control and sending them photos from another site! (this happens which is why I don't think building control should be outsourced!)
Last edited by Thorien; 12th February 2018 at 23:14.
Agree with all this.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Thanks.
They certainly won't be injecting membranes from both sides as they won't get permission to do so on my mum's property.
I'll provide feedback on what I find out.
This dichotomy between planning and building control still confuses me. I will be contacting the planning office tomorrow. How, when or where will building control get involved?
Once planning approval has been granted it is then building control (or an approved inspector’s) responsibility. I would avoid approved inspectors if possible. Planning would only be involved post approval if there was a complaint or a concern raised by building control.
Last edited by Chris_in_the_UK; 12th February 2018 at 22:07.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Thanks although I have to say that I am still confused.
I'm planning to call the council officer named on the planning consent letter tomorrow. Does that seem like a good place to start? :-)
Yep start there and good luck, also document everything, who you speak to and when (date and time of call etc).
I'll be interested to see where this goes and hope it's resolved as amicably as possible for the sake of all involved!
This is very near to my mum's house. I wonder who the architect is. ;-)
Dramatic scene after house collapses in affluent Hampstead street
Dramatic scene after house collapses in affluent Hampstead street
Martin Coulter
4 hours ago
Ten people were forced to leave the surrounding homes after the "total collapse" of the two-storey building in Sumatra Road, where properties fetch over £1 million.
A spokesman for the LFB said firefighters were making the scene safe while working with the local authority's structural engineer.
"One fire engine and one fire rescue unit and 10 firefighters have been called to house collapse on Sumatra Road in Hampstead.
"There has been a total collapse of the two storey property from the roof to basement level," a spokesman said.
Fire crews from West Hampstead and Battersea fire stations were called to the scene on Monday.
The house appeared to be undergoing renovations at the time of collapse.
No-one was injured.
And it's not really all that affluent around here!
Last edited by markrlondon; 13th February 2018 at 03:35.
A party wall surveyor will be a good call too - they can inspect your property and ensure no damage occurs (many other posters know far more than me on this) - we built an annexe and paid for our neighbours surveyor.
Your and their surveyor can discuss access too as the neighbour may be entitled to work on their property from your side if the building work goes up the the property boundary (which it very much appears to do).
As the neighbours are doing the work, they pay for your surveyor so as to give you peace of mind. Picking your own surveyor and giving the neighbours your chosen surveyors number gets the ball rolling.
It's all standard practice set out in law/regulations, designed to take the stress out of it (ie its not an aggressive move on your part, you're following standard close-building process) as the surveyors know what their roles are and who they are working for.
Last edited by poloman; 12th February 2018 at 23:19.
Thanks. Will let everyone know how it goes.
If you read back over the thread you'll see that the neighbours have already failed to adhere to the law on this. They should have notified my mum but did not. This puts us in a difficult position in diplomatic/social terms. I have certainly been convinced that a party wall surveyor would be a very good idea but I need to approach the neighbours in the right way to keep the peace.
The neighbour was friendly when I spoke to her yesterday and very quickly did what was necessary to remedy the problem with the end wall that I identified, so that's a good sign. But I bet she won't be so happy about being expected to pay out more money for our surveyor.
We shall see.
They are probably being led by the builder
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The brickwork to the columns and wall here seem to be engineering class brick, you can use these as bearings for steel columns however it is up to the Structural Engineer to confirm if this is acceptable.
give the photos in the other post 24/11/17 15:25, i would say that the wall construction is existing garden wall/cavity/insulation/inner leaf. It also looks like they have filled the cavity at the top part of the wall with mortar not sure of this is full height or only from the stringer course in the garden wall up.
There are too many builders eager to get a quart out of a pint pot:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...of-to-basement
I working in LA Building Control. If you have concerns I would speak with your neighbour find out if they are using LABC. They may well be using am Approved Inspector. Either way a meeting with the BCO hopefully will put your fears at rest. If the structure differs from the agreed drawings Building Control will/should pick up on this. I very much doubt Planning enforcement will be involved at this stage, but that depends on how consent was issued. Do not include other surveyors in the process at this present time as it won't be helpful. I'm sure after a meeting you'll get some resolution's.
What he said, they'll just be putting up the money and assuming the builder will take care of the rest
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Any update on this Mark? How did it all pan out?
Apologies for resurrecting house threads
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Looks like it's being built by Fred Carno's Army to me. Either the builders don't know what they're doing, or the person instructing them doesn't.
I would have it looked at by professionals. Remember I could call myself a 'builder' and start work tomorrow. In my experience many have.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
It looks like I never followed up on this. Sorry!
The building work was finally finished, although not before the builders tried to install an oversize gutter over our part of the joint wall. We never pursued the council or a party wall surveyor. I might upload some pics of the finished work. It's not fallen down yet but has all sorts of practical drawbacks (not least keeping it clean) and drainage issues. It requires the owner to use my property to clean it. Some small parts were never finished (some small areas of insulation left bare) and some of the pointing was appallingly bad.
The neighbours who had all this done moved out and sold up not all that long after finishing. There are new neighbours there now.
So this brings us to today...
What happened earlier today is that I was sitting here in my house and heard what seemed to be an explosion from very close by outside. After looking around, I finally realised that one of the sloping glass roof panels above the neighbour's kitchen extension had shattered!
Something seems to have fallen off one of our houses (I don't know what and I don't know whose house it came from), hit one of the glass roof panels, and shattered it. The panel is still in place but completely crazed and opaque and is making threatening crinkling noises. It gives the impression that it will collapse if touched. There's an impact mark where something hit it but I cannot (yet) see what the impactor was. The neighbours aren't home yet.
Deleted. Just noted the dates.
Last edited by Montello; 13th April 2022 at 20:29.
Something I noticed down our street don’t know how they ever got planning permission but someone’s had an extension and the wall must only be 6 inches from the neighbouring wall how on earth you would fare if either wall had a problem I don’t know
Often like this, could say that about the first-built wall too - why should the owner of the second wall now leave space for servicing the other wall if that was built virtually to the boundary?
Not the responsibility of an owner to leave access for another property.
Indeed. That sort of thing just doesn't make sense to me. Practical maintainability doesn't seem to be taken into account.
Building up to a boundary line isn't exactly unusual (is it?), and I'm not sure what the issue is regarding permitting access for maintenance purposes. In fact, think about adjacent semi-detached houses where one of the titles includes the path between the two.
I'm pretty sure that when I built a conservatory on one of my old houses, the (solid, unglazed) wall facing my neighbour's garden actually replaced the fence in terms of the physical boundary between the two.
Or am I going mad?
Because as I said there are about 6 inches between 2 long walls if you had any problems eg damp or repointing you would have to dismantle the wall from the inside of the house unless you can get 4 in wide builders in
We used to live in a small terraced house - our neighbours built a single storey extension out the back about 3 inches from the boundary. We were considering the same - to us, the logical thing was to adjoin the extensions, having purchased the 3 inch strip from the neighbour. Even though he couldn't access the strip, he didn't want to sell so our only option would have been to have built up to the boundary, creating the access problem you describe - or been denied the option of extending in a similar way, which would have been unreasonable I feel. In the end we moved before taking things forward.
Never mind, OBE.
In a semi situation it seems sensible to build up to the boundary, replacing any fence, the neighbor could then just tie into that wall if they also wanted to extend in the future.
Or is there a reason not to do that?
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They would need your permission to build off it?
As long as the foundations are sold they could install load bearing hangers from the wall I think…
Not sure of the semi relevance but if the wall is on the boundary, won’t the foundations be over it?
I was thinking semi because you share a central wall and could be thinking of extending full width which would put you on the boundary.
I don't know what the right answer is, seems like leaving a small gap isn't the right answer and building up to the boundary isn't either...
Maybe you just have to leave a bigger gap?
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Strange I would have thought that in law you should have a right to have room to get to your property to maintain it but what do I know maybe it’s something that needs looking at
So the extension builder would then gain a right of access over his neighbour’s property, how would that be fair legally? If he wants to be sure of accessing the wall for maintenance then he should build the wall far enough within his boundary to make it possible.
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