Formula 1 2018

[Backward point]

Alonso seems to have wreaked a trail of havoc at every team he's driven for, yet there's no denying his talent, and his ability to wring an extra couple of tenths out of a car which really isn't capable of giving it.

His departure raises even more questions about the future of McLaren as a viable F1 team, as they're not exactly fighting off potential sponsors, and Alonso was their trump card. I always thought that Zak Brown was some sort of sponsor-attracting guru, and he's got a far less marketable product without Alonso.

Alonso is at Silverstone for the WEC round this weekend, and perhaps that or Indycar is where he sees his future. For all sorts of reasons, he'll create quite a vacuum in F1 when he's gone.

[Geoff W]

True...aside from Renault. But'that' season at McLaren where a LOT of folks pointed fingers at the rookie likely don't know it wasn't quite that simple. Ron Dennis really messed that up.

As for the future I agree it doesn't look good. I've seen nothing from Brown to suggest he's going to turn it around; the Gil hires feels like a role of the dice rather than a strategy to survive and prosper in the sport. Mind you as a sport I wonder how long Williams or FI can survive as it stands, how long Mercedes will hang around and why Renault think F1 is any sort of strategy for it's business.

[CardShark]

Anyhow...so long Fred. Amazing career and I've enjoyed Alonso these past few seasons, the self-depreciating nature of a man who can only laugh, and rant a little about the situation he found himself in - if nothing else that deckchair pic will be remembered for a long, long time even if the recent results won't.

One of the best F1 images of this decade, in my humble.



With his retirement from F1 an opportunity for fresh blood awaits, however it'll still feel odd not having his name mentioned on the starting grid come Melbourne '19.

[Geoff W]

Agreed...it was the right time to go. Not that the vacant seat is exactly desirable.

[GScorcho]

This is the issue with F1...we’re losing one of the best drivers ever in the sport who has been wasted these past 5 years because he can’t get a seat in a car capable of winning or duelling with the current big three. I reckon red bull shouldn’t be so weak and have taken Alonso one for a year, sure he’d destabilise the zen of the team but imagine the story and on track fights between Alo and Ves and the other big teams...would have been epic.


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[Skier]

Whilst I would agree that Alonso is one of the quickest drivers out there I see no evidence that he's one of the greats. Alonso's radio messages are largely those of a petulant child, not those of a driver trying to offer meaningful help to his engineers and strategists. The greats are able to develop and bring a team from the mid-field to the head of the pack. Alonso has never done this or stuck with a team through the tough times to work towards the end goal. Contrast this with, for example, Vettel who left Red Bull for Ferrari and has made himself very popular with the team and has now helped bring the team to where it is now. Hamilton's move from McLaren to Mercedes was almost universally ridiculed in the press, look how inspired that was; he helped develop the team from also rans to multiple Word Championships.

All that said, I think in the current age it's far more difficult for a driver to influence major design initiatives; you need a PhD in aerodynamics and several other aspects: energy harvesting, software development etc.

[adrianw]

he is one of the most talented drivers on the F1 grid, but it is understandable, he probably doesn't need the cash, the desire to win and getting out of the F1 environment.

[Geoff W]

Whilst I would agree that Alonso is one of the quickest drivers out there I see no evidence that he's one of the greats. Alonso's radio messages are largely those of a petulant child, not those of a driver trying to offer meaningful help to his engineers and strategists. The greats are able to develop and bring a team from the mid-field to the head of the pack. Alonso has never done this or stuck with a team through the tough times to work towards the end goal. Contrast this with, for example, Vettel who left Red Bull for Ferrari and has made himself very popular with the team and has now helped bring the team to where it is now. Hamilton's move from McLaren to Mercedes was almost universally ridiculed in the press, look how inspired that was; he helped develop the team from also rans to multiple Word Championships.

Sorry I can't agree, he had issues for sure but to then use Seb as an counterpoint example? The same guy who took out Webber out in Turkey? Who disobeyed team orders and destroyed the team dynamic at RBR by forcing Horner, who has no spine, to take his side? Singapore last year?

Alonso has proven time and again he can make an average car a winner. He outfought Schumacher in his prime. He had no logical right to even be in with a sniff of the WDC in 2010 and yet was and would have won it but for one of the worst strategy calls in the history of F1. Ditto 2012 - that car was maybe third best, arguably fourth best, on the grid and but for being caught in two crashes that were nothing to do with him he likely would have been WDC again. He was providing plenty of engineering input to the team for that period but it was his raw talent that pushed it further up than it had any right to be.

He was by no means perfect but lets not get on some revisionist BS here. Alonso is unquestionably a great.

[Skier]

Sorry I can't agree, he had issues for sure but to then use Seb as an counterpoint example? The same guy who took out Webber out in Turkey? Who disobeyed team orders and destroyed the team dynamic at RBR by forcing Horner, who has no spine, to take his side? Singapore last year?

Alonso has proven time and again he can make an average car a winner. He outfought Schumacher in his prime. He had no logical right to even be in with a sniff of the WDC in 2010 and yet was and would have won it but for one of the worst strategy calls in the history of F1. Ditto 2012 - that car was maybe third best, arguably fourth best, on the grid and but for being caught in two crashes that were nothing to do with him he likely would have been WDC again. He was providing plenty of engineering input to the team for that period but it was his raw talent that pushed it further up than it had any right to be.

He was by no means perfect but lets not get on some revisionist BS here. Alonso is unquestionably a great.

I used Vettel as an example of someone who went to a weaker team and assisted in building it up; I didn't say he was a great. Same with Hamilton. Don't read what you want into what I wrote. If you believe that taking out teammates and opponents precludes someone from being a great then we must also exclude: Senna, Schumacher, Prost etc.

In my opinion Alonso has never helped build a team to success though I freely acknowledge he's an excellent driver.

[WarrenVrs]

This is the issue with F1...we’re losing one of the best drivers ever in the sport who has been wasted these past 5 years because he can’t get a seat in a car capable of winning or duelling with the current big three. I reckon red bull shouldn’t be so weak and have taken Alonso one for a year, sure he’d destabilise the zen of the team but imagine the story and on track fights between Alo and Ves and the other big teams...would have been epic.


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Completely self inflicted though. No one in the pits disputes his talent and speed, but he's made his own bed.

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[WarrenVrs]

Sorry I can't agree, he had issues for sure but to then use Seb as an counterpoint example? The same guy who took out Webber out in Turkey? Who disobeyed team orders and destroyed the team dynamic at RBR by forcing Horner, who has no spine, to take his side? Singapore last year?

Alonso has proven time and again he can make an average car a winner. He outfought Schumacher in his prime. He had no logical right to even be in with a sniff of the WDC in 2010 and yet was and would have won it but for one of the worst strategy calls in the history of F1. Ditto 2012 - that car was maybe third best, arguably fourth best, on the grid and but for being caught in two crashes that were nothing to do with him he likely would have been WDC again. He was providing plenty of engineering input to the team for that period but it was his raw talent that pushed it further up than it had any right to be.

He was by no means perfect but lets not get on some revisionist BS here. Alonso is unquestionably a great.

Vettel/Webber multi 21 was started by Webbers actions previously (Brazil 2012).

I'm no Vettel fan boy, but the multi 21 incident needs context to be fully understood.

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[hogthrob]

Alonso is a great driver who could easily have won more WDCs. As I've said before though, for me he is slightly tainted by his long association with Flavio Briatore, and the suspicion that there was something unusual about the Renault cars he won his two WDCs in.

[Papa Hotel]

Alonso is a great driver who could easily have won more WDCs. As I've said before though, for me he is slightly tainted by his long association with Flavio Briatore, and the suspicion that there was something unusual about the Renault cars he won his two WDCs in.

He also tainted his own legend in 2007 by throwing his toys out of the pram when a young Lewis Hamilton handed him his arse on a plate. Finding himself at war with McLaren was silly and forced him to move to a slower team, something he never quite recovered from with his enhanced reputation for being a pain in the arse.

In recent times he has managed to temper that a bit, still a frustrated and frustrating angry pain in the arse but doing it with humour while also making his teammate look decidedly rubbish.

[Geoff W]

Alonso is a great driver who could easily have won more WDCs. As I've said before though, for me he is slightly tainted by his long association with Flavio Briatore, and the suspicion that there was something unusual about the Renault cars he won his two WDCs in.

Same could be said of Schumacher, Prost, Senna, Vettel and many others...especially in recent times Button. The brilliance on F1 engineering is finding those grey areas.

[CardShark]

Alonso's CV is littered with unfortunate decisions and actions. He moved to Ferrari and then McLaren hoping to be part of the rebuilding process, neither of which paid out, yet to say that these were poor decisions is unfair as the word "poor" can only be used alongside "with hindsight". Yes, other drivers have made more fortunate choices, Hamilton being the most obvious example in recent history, however what if Mercedes didn't create that engine? Where would the team be and how would we be judging Hamilton's career path then? A driver is also one of many components within a team, they're not the be all and end all, merely one of the parts within the sum of all parts. Can they influence design direction? Yes, particularly if they're a clear No.1 driver within a team, however it's still down to the technical ability of the various departments to realise that vision, should such a direction be agreed to. One thing can be said of Alonso though and that's that he has made of the most of the car that he's sitting in regardless as to it's relative performance against others, and that's the sign of true talent. Maybe if he wasn't considered to be such a prickly character to deal with he may have had other teams to choose from when he left Ferrari, and if that really is the case then he would only have himself to blame.

It takes a great leap of faith and a healthy dose of self belief to jump from one team to another. It hasn't, as yet, worked out for 4 time DC Vettel at Ferrari and Ricciardo will be keeping his fingers and toes crossed as well, their motives to move were different and their choices perhaps not as wide as eachother however both were/are leaping into the dark.

There's no crystal ball in F1 and past performance is no guarantee of future results.

[Geoff W]

Agreed. No one knew the Honda engine would be *that* poor so it was always a calculated risk that a highly successful F1 brand would come back in an entirely different era. At least McLaren was still open to letting him go to Indy and do Le Mans in support of the Triple Crown.

[jaytip]

Whilst I would agree that Alonso is one of the quickest drivers out there I see no evidence that he's one of the greats. Alonso's radio messages are largely those of a petulant child, not those of a driver trying to offer meaningful help to his engineers and strategists. The greats are able to develop and bring a team from the mid-field to the head of the pack. Alonso has never done this or stuck with a team through the tough times to work towards the end goal. Contrast this with, for example, Vettel who left Red Bull for Ferrari and has made himself very popular with the team and has now helped bring the team to where it is now. Hamilton's move from McLaren to Mercedes was almost universally ridiculed in the press, look how inspired that was; he helped develop the team from also rans to multiple Word Championships.

All that said, I think in the current age it's far more difficult for a driver to influence major design initiatives; you need a PhD in aerodynamics and several other aspects: energy harvesting, software development etc.

I think Vettel is a poor example to give. When the Red Bull was a leader (the blown diffuser complimented his driving style) he was happy. Then the hybrid era came in and the Red Bull wasn’t as competitive as before, although Daniel did take three victories in it to Seb’s zero, he was off like a shot to Ferrari.

[Skier]

I think Vettel is a poor example to give. When the Red Bull was a leader (the blown diffuser complimented his driving style) he was happy. Then the hybrid era came in and the Red Bull wasn’t as competitive as before, although Daniel did take three victories in it to Seb’s zero, he was off like a shot to Ferrari.

I'll refer you to post #1209.

[jaytip]

I'll refer you to post #1209.

And? Red Bull became a weaker team when the hybrid era came in. He didn’t hang around to help them improve. He didn’t leave the team at the beginning of the new era, he waited a year and when the results were not forthcoming for him he was gone.

[CardShark]

Vettel may have jumped ship when RB appeared to falter (in fact he still had a year left on his RB contract) however Ferrari weren't the class of the field either. There may have been a number of other factors at play as well - few drivers would be able to resist the call of the Prancing Horse, he'd been a RB driver for many years including his time at TR so you can understand why he may have fancied a change and he'd be wanting to emulate his fellow countryman Schumacher.

If memory serves me correct there was a contract clause that stated if the team failed to deliver Vettel was free to leave, and that he did. Seeing as he didn't jump straight into a championship winning team I'm not sure that he could be accused of running away from RB purely down to that team's performance, other reasons such as the ones I've listed may have come into play.

[hogthrob]

It could be that the prospect of having a number two driver as a team mate, rather than a clear rival, influenced Vettel's decision.

[CardShark]

It could be that the prospect of having a number two driver as a team mate, rather than a clear rival, influenced Vettel's decision.

At Ferrari? Nah, it's not as if they're known for it

[ziphos]

Agreed. No one knew the Honda engine would be *that* poor

Looking at their past involvement in F1, Honda have always taken a year or two to get things right, but I doubt anyone expected that much of a disaster from them! 4 years in and they still haven't caught up, it is still the weakest engine on the grid. It will be interesting to see what happens with the engine in the back of an Adrian Newey Red Bull next year.

[jaytip]

It could be that the prospect of having a number two driver as a team mate, rather than a clear rival, influenced Vettel's decision.

It could also be the fact that he was completely shown up by Ricciardo.

[CardShark]

This is starting to sound like Python's "what did the Romans ever do for us?"

Wouldn't it be great to see Vettel and Ricciardo back in the same cars? A shame that it'll never happen, though.

[watchcollector1]

A reminder why the big teams aren't queuing up to take Alonso.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.r...ampf=undefined

[Bravo73]

There have been 2 major scandals in modern F1: McLaren/Ferrari spygate and the Renault ‘crashgate’. Spygate cost McLaren the championship and something in the region of $250m in fines, lost revenue and sponsorship. Crashgate got Briatore (and others, I think) banned from motorsports for life and Renault F1 received a suspended disqualification from F1.

Both prosecutions hinged on the confessions of a single person. Step forward, Mr Fernando Alonso.

The man has no morals and would happily sell his granny down the river for a penny. The teams that he joins seem to end up imploding then improving dramatically once he has left.

Good riddance, I say.

[Huertecilla]

Completely self inflicted though. No one in the pits disputes his talent and speed, but he's made his own bed.

That is the best observation sofar.

Comparing with other drivers is irrelevant.

Alsonso is out. End of an era. Next.

[Backward point]

Carlos Sainz's Formula 1 career just took a downturn:

https://www.mclaren.com/formula1/ins...-mclaren-2019/

[ziphos]

Carlos Sainz's Formula 1 career just took a downturn:

https://www.mclaren.com/formula1/ins...-mclaren-2019/

This is probably the least bad option available to him. He was unlikely to go to Red Bull as he and Max did not get on as team mates before, and there are no other good seats that haven't been filled. His only other real opportunity would be at Torro Rosso, that would be a big step back for him.

[Huertecilla]

Carlos Sainz's Formula 1 career just took a downturn:

A shuffle no doubt involving Sainz senior. Would not be surprised to see a Repsol sticker somewhere on the McLaren.

[Backward point]

A shuffle no doubt involving Sainz senior. Would not be surprised to see a Repsol sticker somewhere on the McLaren.

I think that McLaren have a lubricant and fuel contract already (Esso? Mobil?), and in this day and age oil and fuel suppliers are more "partners", developing fuels and oils alongside the engine manufacturers - Ferrari and Shell work very closely, as do Mercedes and Petronas, so I can't see Repsol stickers on the McLarens any time soon.

Meanwhile, on the matter of the current state of the driver market, Mark Hughes reckons that we might see Robert Kubica in a Williams after all:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...378YTL,1CR5G,1

[Backward point]

In case anybody's confused by the current state of the F1 driver market for 2019, here's a handy guide from Pitpass:

https://www.pitpass.com/62624/Who-Goes-Where-2019

I was quite surprised to see that only seven seats have actually been confirmed so far.

[Andyg]

There have been 2 major scandals in modern F1: McLaren/Ferrari spygate and the Renault ‘crashgate’. Spygate cost McLaren the championship and something in the region of $250m in fines, lost revenue and sponsorship. Crashgate got Briatore (and others, I think) banned from motorsports for life and Renault F1 received a suspended disqualification from F1.

Both prosecutions hinged on the confessions of a single person. Step forward, Mr Fernando Alonso.

The man has no morals and would happily sell his granny down the river for a penny. The teams that he joins seem to end up imploding then improving dramatically once he has left.

Good riddance, I say.

totally agreed - but still a good driver.

[JeremyO]

Completely self inflicted though. No one in the pits disputes his talent and speed, but he's made his own bed.

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Quite, Alonso is the architect of his own misfortune.

Had I been Ron Dennis I would have sacked him on the spot the moment he tried his alleged blackmail attempt in 2007.

I was amazed when McLaren later signed him in 2015. It did neither of them any good

[Geoff W]

In case anybody's confused by the current state of the F1 driver market for 2019, here's a handy guide from Pitpass:

https://www.pitpass.com/62624/Who-Goes-Where-2019

I was quite surprised to see that only seven seats have actually been confirmed so far.

This confirms two things: Stroll taking Ocon's seat shows how messed up F1 has become to the point Wolff has tried what...a 4 way negotiation to help Ocon stay in a vaguely competitive seat? Second, Williams grasping at Kubica as an answer shows how desperate they are - he may be slightly quicker than what they have now but even he won't make them competitive. I can't seeing ending well for either party.

[reggie747]

Yeeaaaah.........shooooooore Michael.......

https://www.grandprix247.com/2018/08...on-in-testing/

[petethegeek]

[CardShark]

Gasly to Red Bull. Good for him, I just hope that Honda don't let the side down.

[ziphos]

Gasly to Red Bull. Good for him, I just hope that Honda don't let the side down.

That might leave 2 seats open at Torro Rosso, unless they keep Hartley next year, which seems unlikely? There are no obvious candidates for the seats.

[CardShark]

If anything I think that Gasly's move away from TR increases the chances of Hartley staying, this will allow some stability as well as one season to the next Honda feedback within the team - two new drivers won't be able to provide that.

Who will take Gasly's place though? Vandorne is a possibility however TR/RB aren't known for taking someone else's seconds, Sainz is accounted for and I don't think that they have another junior driver who is able to step up. Hartley was recalled back to the TR fold, what are the odds on another ex-driver getting a 'phone call from Marko?

Edit to add that this is all looking like only two teams will retain the same line-up for next season, though that's based on Kimi staying at Ferrari. Sauber and Haas may remain the same however there's a reasonable chance they won't.

[hogthrob]

two new drivers won't be able to provide that.

How experienced do you need to be, to say "It's shit"?

[Huertecilla]

If anything I think that Gasly's move away from TR increases the chances of Hartley staying, this will allow some stability as well as one season to the next Honda feedback within the team - two new drivers won't be able to provide that.

Telemetrics will.

[Geoff W]

I can see Hartley staying at TR now.

For Ocon this means the 'best' seat is TR and if TR are smart they'd take the best available option to them. Whether that happens who knows, the likely destination is partnering Kubica at Williams.

[CardShark]

How experienced do you need to be, to say "It's sh!t"?

Yeah, fair point As for telemetrics, just like aero changes dictated via wind tunnels and CFD, a driver's input is still valuable.

[CardShark]

I can see Hartley staying at TR now.

For Ocon this means the 'best' seat is TR and if TR are smart they'd take the best available option to them. Whether that happens who knows, the likely destination is partnering Kubica at Williams.

Mercedes will have a say in wherever Ocon moves to, presuming that he leaves FI. Williams is a possibility given the Mercedes connection, McLaren and TR are other potentials, all three of them would benefit from having him onboard.

Lando Norris has a debut Friday drive taking Alonso's seat at Spa, McLaren obviously assessing their options as to who partners Sainz Jnr.

[Geoff W]

Yep...feels like Stoffel is out whatever happens, which is a shame as I think he's got natural talent.

The Motorsport link suggests Stroll Sr is actively trying to get Jr in at FI and Perez has to stay due the sponsor monies...which seems backwards given the engine they have. I think FI should stick with what they have but maybe Stroll has more of a say than other partners.

[Backward point]

Spa time!

Formula 1 at the greatest race track on the calendar, one of three fantastic circuits in quick succession, along with Monza and Suzuka - all "old school", narrow(ish), with grass and gravel traps to punish the over-ambitious at most corners, and a welcome lack of interference by Hermann Tilke.

Eau Rouge, Les Combes, Pouhon, Blanchimont. Proper corners, with proper names. None of this "Turn 7" anonymity. Only the best win at Spa, although Andrea de Cesaris came close one year.

Tyre choices for the weekend:



McLaren have gone very conservative on tyres. As has already been mentioned, Lando Norris has an outing in Fernando Alonso's McLaren in FP1, and there are rumours that he might replace Stoffel Vandoorne before the season's out.

Pierre Gasly's move to Red Bull was widely predicted, and justified by some outstanding performances in the Toro Rosso earlier in the season. All eyes are on Ferrari, and whether they'll give Kimi Raikkonen another year - personally, I think he justifies another season, and Charles LeClerc would benefit from a year in a Haas, to see how he copes in the somewhat crowded midfield.

More anon.

[Huertecilla]

Spa time!

Formula 1 at the greatest race track on the calendar, one of three fantastic circuits in quick succession, along with Monza and Suzuka - all "old school", narrow(ish), with grass and gravel traps to punish the over-ambitious at most corners, and a welcome lack of interference by Hermann Tilke.

Eau Rouge, Les Combes, Pouhon, Blanchimont. Proper corners, with proper names. None of this "Turn 7" anonymity.

I só agree. And you did not even mention the weather.
It is the only one I planned to watch but the start of La Vuelta coincides.
Still thé race imho.

[WarrenVrs]

Shame the cars/aero have made corners like eau rouge flat with no talent.

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