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Thread: Formula 1 2018

  1. #851
    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    If cigarette advertising means a lovely colour scheme such as the Rothmans tribute on a couple of the GT Porsches, long may it continue. They also have a couple of cars in the iconic "Pink Pig" scheme, and their pits have been decorated to resemble the old brick pits at the Nurburgring. You have to love Le Mans. They even have one current and several former Grand Prix drivers competing this year, including Jan Lammers, who is apparently competing in his 24th Le Mans. Thirty years ago he was awarded "Honorary Brit" status when he shared the winning TWR Jaguar with Andy Wallace and Johnny Dumfries.

    ...the Red Bull energy drinks company were able to reduce their sponsorship payments to the team during 2012 and 2013 as they received so much from the FOM TV money payments, so the racing team may be less of a financial drain if it can support itself on more prize money and donations from Honda. Assuming that it can continue to run at the front with Honda power.

    I think that there are 15 ex F1 drivers plus one current (Alonso) in France aujourd'hui, I'm shortly off to a mates to watch the race on Eurosport. Thoroughly looking forward to it - will the Toyotas crack again...?

    I read not too long ago that it costs Red Bull less to run the RB team than it does Torro Rosso due to the difference in TV and sponsorship revenue that the RB team generates, it'll be a brave step to move to Honda however it is, to a degree, inevitable. I wonder where Aston Martin fits into this though considering that they've recently committed to the RB team as well?

  2. #852
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    Formula 1 2018

    Mercedes are adamant that they don’t have a number 1 and number 2 in their team and that was clearly evident in the races between Nico and Lewis. Ferrari on the other hand are quite open about having number 1 and 2 drivers.

  3. #853
    If anybody is sufficiently bored, and wants to play "spot the Formula 1 driver" the Le Mans entry list is here: http://www.dailysportscar.com/wp-con...2018-Entry.pdf

    Have a good time, CS! My son phoned me earlier and has offered a Father's Day breakfast tomorrow, so I'll miss a few hours!
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  4. #854
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    If cigarette advertising means a lovely colour scheme...
    I used to love the old Gold Leaf and JPS liveries.




  5. #855
    So many great and iconic racing cars owe their colour schemes to fags, booze or dodgy business practices...
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  6. #856
    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post

    Have a good time, CS! My son phoned me earlier and has offered a Father's Day breakfast tomorrow, so I'll miss a few hours!
    Salut, et tu!

    Just checked the stats, it's 24 current/ex F1 drivers not 16. 30min to race start and the beer is flowing.

  7. #857
    I think Eurosport came up with 24, so well done. It means that you must have "got" Will Stevens!

    Rafa Nadal is lined up to wave le Tricoleur to start proceedings. The Eurosport commentator has just pointed out that the advantage of having a celebrity wave the flag to start the race is that there's less chance of them doing so a couple of laps early...

    Is it possible nowadays to start a major international sporting event without having a vital piece of equipment delivered from the skies? If it isn't the start flag delivered by the French military by abseilers coming down from a helicopter it's the match ball arriving by parachutist.
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  8. #858
    Back to Formula 1, and my attention has been drawn to this:

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/mclare...-intervention/

    All is not well at McLaren. Well, we knew that, but it seems that there is an internal revolt brewing...
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  9. #859
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    I see a few sons in the Le Mans driver list as well, like Alex Brundle, Harrison Newey and Edward Cheever.

  10. #860
    Has anyone noticed at LeMans how close the cars are following and at higher speeds than formula 1.

    The Porsche Ford battle is showing everything that is currently wrong with F1
    Last edited by adrianw; 17th June 2018 at 10:27.

  11. #861
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Has anyone noticed at LeMans how close the cars are following and at higher speeds than formula 1.

    The Porsche Ford battle is showing everything that is currently wrong with F1
    The GT Class is much less reliant on aero for grip though, to be fair. Very close racing between them, the first hour or two was nose to tail with the odd look-see and overtake, some talented drivers out there to be racing that close for that long without taking eachother out, the heritage Porsches put on a great show.

    A teriffic win for Toyota and Alonso even if, IMO, it's a touch hollow.

  12. #862
    This weekend sees the long-awaited return of the French Grand Prix. And not, thankfully, at Magny Cours, but Paul Ricard, notable for long straights, the fast Signes curve, and the likelihood of the influence of the Mistral wind.

    It's a circuit with some Formula 1 history, and notable for almost seeing a win for an unfancied car and driver which managed the entire race on a single set of tyres in 1990 when Ivan Capelli in an early Adrian Newey designed Leyton House almost held off Alain Prost's Ferrari. The reason was that the smooth, well-surfaced circuit favoured a car which was kind to its tyres, so whether the same holds true all these years later we will see.

    Tyre choices:



    Circuit:




    If the circuit has a distinguishing feature it's the size of the run-off areas, with alternating bands of normal and high-grip (blue) and even higher grip (red) surface. It's a well-used circuit, due to the local weather conditions, and very popular for testing.
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  13. #863
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    And of course, the spiritual home of the Bol D’or (the motorcycling equivalent of Le Mans).
    It’s just a shame they’ve put a chicane in the middle of the Mistral Straight, although probably better for F1.

    Does Bernie Ecclestone still own the circuit?

  14. #864
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Does Bernie Ecclestone still own the circuit?
    Seemingly so.

    http://www.racingcircuits.info/europ...l#.WyfGB-FKiV4

    "...in 1999 when the whole site (including the airport) was purchased by the Excelis Company, owned by Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone."

    Nothing that follows would indicate any further change in the ownership.

  15. #865
    I very much doubt that he is the race promoter, though. As in, he won't be paying the hosting fee, and will probably be charging a significant rent for the use of the circuit.

    He (or rather his company) have allegedly put some significant investment into the circuit in the years that they have owned it, though.
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  16. #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    I very much doubt that he is the race promoter, though. As in, he won't be paying the hosting fee, and will probably be charging a significant rent for the use of the circuit.

    He (or rather his company) have allegedly put some significant investment into the circuit in the years that they have owned it, though.
    I can well believe that; it was certainly looking in need of a lick of paint when used to go there in the nineties.

  17. #867
    The French MotoGP was held there for a while, but not recently - it's very popular for GT racing, but I don't think there's much money in that.

    I want to see Liberty come up with a list of improvements to be made to the facilities before next year's race, as Bernie used to do with Silverstone.
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  18. #868
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Great place to go to see a race though, being so close to the French Riviera. The beaches of Bandol are only about fifteen minutes away.

  19. #869
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    Formula 1 2018

    So it’s official. Red Bull have just agreed a two year deal with Honda. Interesting times ahead.
    Weirdly it will still be known as Aston Martin Red Bull Racing.
    Last edited by jaytip; 19th June 2018 at 09:35.

  20. #870
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Mercedes are adamant that they don’t have a number 1 and number 2 in their team and that was clearly evident in the races between Nico and Lewis. Ferrari on the other hand are quite open about having number 1 and 2 drivers.
    Hamilton has said, on more than one occaision, that he is happy to race any other driver as a team mate.

  21. #871
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    Interesting Red Bull will switch to Honda. It seems the current power unit is now about on par with the Renault. With Honda delivering as requested at Canada with the updates and Renault still not delivering on a new MGU-K The former is now seen as a better bet longer term. You can’t help but feel that McLaren will need to up their game to save the ignominy of being beaten regularly by a Honda powered car next season.

  22. #872
    It's also killed the "good chassis, terrible engine" narrative McLaren and a lot of pundits repeated last season. Turns out it was a poor engine with sub-par chassis.

  23. #873
    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff W View Post
    It's also killed the "good chassis, terrible engine" narrative McLaren and a lot of pundits repeated last season. Turns out it was a poor engine with sub-par chassis.
    It was easy for McLaren to tell everybody that they had the best chassis last year, when they were never going to be able to prove it. The we had the "we'll be on a par with Red Bull" nonsense when they did the Renault deal, and again, that was just hot air.

    What happens next? They don't have any significant sponsorship, which was what Zak Brown was supposed to provide, so unless they find a sponsor soon the owners will have to provide a large injection of capital to invest in bringing the chassis and aero up to standard. There is internal unrest at Woking, and an undercurrent of opinion that the team should re-employ Martin Whitmarsh as Team Principal, laying the blame for the under-performance of recent seasons at the door of Eric Boullier.

    McLaren and Williams scratching around at the back of the field. Who would have thought it?
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    RB were in the luxurious position that they could try out the Honda partnership with Toro Rosso so they are not jumping in at the deep end. For Honda it means double the data and imo better feedback than in the case of McLaren.
    Interesting indeed.

    Now all we need is a rabbit out of the hat concerning more action on track.
    Hamilton too is crossing fingers about a not too boring race coming weekend.

  25. #875
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post

    McLaren and Williams scratching around at the back of the field. Who would have thought it?
    McLaren are hardly scratching about at the back of the field. They are only just behind Renault who are at the front of the mid field pack.
    Williams on the other hand..........

  26. #876
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    McLaren are hardly scratching about at the back of the field. They are only just behind Renault who are at the front of the mid field pack.
    Williams on the other hand..........
    They're not fielding the worst complete package on the grid however a) Fernando is flattering the car and b) they're the slowest of the 3 Renault powered chassis. They've taken a step up the grid this season however compared to their immediate competition they're last.

    It just goes to show how finely balanced F1 can be, how one single decision can change the destiny of a team. When Honda and McLaren wed for the second time everyone knew that it was a trust based leap into the dark, the only light being shone was that of their historic past and there were many that hoped their new romance would burn brightly. It didn't happen, McLaren tried to save face by talking up their side of the partnership, Honda remained relatively tight-lipped and they may now have the opportunity to really do their talking on the track with RB instead. You could quite reasonably say that McLaren got the hard end of the deal, that Honda undoubtedly let the side down, and McLaren could start to look like Honda's trial run up the aisle with the potential for the RB deal to be far more successful than your average rebound. McLaren do have some hope in that it was a late decision to install Renault powerplants for this season, despite their PR rhetoric about a smooth swap it would be easy to presume that next year could be easier for them.

    Williams, on the other hand, are in a position of their entire making. They've had the strongest engine on the grid since the dawn of the current evolution yet they have failed to deliver. They have no hiding place whatsoever.

    It could be said that McLaren were unlucky, Williams have no such fallback.
    Last edited by CardShark; 19th June 2018 at 23:15.

  27. #877
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    A couple of thoughts on McLaren; do they have exactly the same power unit as the Renault team? Is it possible that Vandoorne is underperforming? Saint and Hulkenberg are both getting points, for example.

  28. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogthrob View Post
    A couple of thoughts on McLaren; do they have exactly the same power unit as the Renault team? Is it possible that Vandoorne is underperforming? Saint and Hulkenberg are both getting points, for example.
    In McLaren’s defence, up until the last race they were ahead of Renault. The RB is getting the results it is due to the talent that is Adrian Newey. If that car had a Ferrari or a Mercedes engine in the back it would be at the front of the grid.

  29. #879
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    On the McLaren and Williams lagging behind, it looks obvious that after a LeMans win, Alonso will now switch to Indy cars full time. In F1 he has no hope of even eying the podium and his ambition is solidly in Indy now.
    Does not do a power of good to McLaren´s chances for sponsorship.

  30. #880
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    On the McLaren and Williams lagging behind, it looks obvious that after a LeMans win, Alonso will now switch to Indy cars full time. In F1 he has no hope of even eying the podium and his ambition is solidly in Indy now.
    Does not do a power of good to McLaren´s chances for sponsorship.

    Maybe the problem is Zak Brown, United Autosports aren't exactly front runners either.

  31. #881
    Williams is a sad tale of being on the cusp of being near to the front (again) and blowing it massively. Unlike the top teams they seem to have no visible junior program, or Merc have no interest in giving them a junior to try out alongside a more experienced driver. Now maybe the aero design flattered them at times but they've taken a huge step backwards and two inexperienced drivers doesn't help. But the car is clearly very hard to drive anywhere close to the limit.

    As for McLaren...I think Stoffel is a naturally talented driver but he's struggling. If Alonso leaves, as seems increasingly likely, who can they get as the #1? What Alonso is getting out of that package is nothing short of stunning, I can't think of many drivers (Vettel and Hamilton aside) who could do better with what they have. Yes the Renault engine is not as strong as Ferrari or Merc but it's not terrible, so there's a fundamental engineering issue going on.

    A few years ago you'd think both teams look ripe for a takeover by a manufacturer, either as the satellite team of choice (aka a STR) except of course no manufacturer in their right mind would get in to F1 as it stands today, and the ones that are in don't have capacity to do more. Maybe Honda comes back in a team capacity? Maybe Toyota? Renault takes on another team as Nissan? I'm surprised Renault came back as a team owner TBH.

    I genuinely worry for the long term health of F1.

  32. #882
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Maybe the problem is Zak Brown, United Autosports aren't exactly front runners either.
    Rather irrelevant for Alonso. It is not going to be solved quickly so he would best move to Indy asap. He has nothing to gain in F1 anymore. Earned more than enough to go Indy for free and have soem fun with a real chance on winning instead of at best being in the middle of a high speed bore with a real high chance of dnf.

  33. #883
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff W View Post

    I genuinely worry for the long term health of F1.
    I was hopeful when the new owners took time to inventarise the issues.
    And they came up with.... tatatatáááááá; banning grid girls.
    Nough said and sad.

  34. #884
    Master petethegeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff W View Post
    As for McLaren... If Alonso leaves, as seems increasingly likely, who can they get as the #1?
    Ricciardo, perhaps?

  35. #885
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethegeek View Post
    Ricciardo, perhaps[/URL]?
    And blow his chances on a title?
    More money is nice but he is multimillionaire anyway and not in F1 because he has no ambition to wín!!

  36. #886
    Daniel Ricciardo is in the strange position of being at the centre of the current speculation over who drives where next year (and beyond) and although he appears to hold all of the aces, in reality he has few options - neither Ferrari nor Mercedes seem likely to upset their respective driving incumbents, so he appears to have a choice between staying where he is at Red Bull, where Max Verstappen recently agreed a multi-season, multi-million dollar contract extension, and Adrian Newey hasn't, or going to McLaren for the money.

    Current rumour has Adrian Newey talking to Renault, so perhaps that might become an option. He (Newey) renegotiated his Red Bull deal in order to extend his interests elsewhere, hence his involvement with Sir Ben Ainslie's Americas Cup team, and there is no shortage of options available through Red Bull in other sports, and his son Harrison is an ambitious and capable young driver. But if you were Cyril Abiteboul and had the backing of Renault/Nissan and Carlos Ghosn, with ambitions and the funding to produce a front-running Formula 1 car, where would you start?
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  37. #887
    Quote Originally Posted by petethegeek View Post
    I logged on to post the exact same link.

    Alonso must be off to pastures new if McL are fishing for DR, as has already been said there's no realistic opportunity for FA to win the championship any more (or even a race, for that matter), there's zero chance of him catching a ride in a top three team so why not try something else? He's proven himself to be more than capable of switching disciplines so whilst he's competitive he'd be foolish to not jump ship, IMO. I'm sure that either the WEC or Indycar series would welcome him with open arms, imagine the cross pollination of fans that could bring.

    Bit of a dilemma for DR though, isn't it. Ferrari and Merc are looking unlikely so let's rule them out (I'd love to see him wearing red, personally) so let's go through the options.

    A - stay at RB. I'd like to think that championship chances matter more to DR than earnings however RB are going to have to at least match Max's deal for DR to consider staying there, in fact I think that DR is worth more to RB than Max is so there's an argument for a better deal to be had. He'll also have to get his head around the Honda deal, sure you'd think that RB have crunched the numbers and have chosen Honda over Renault due to a potential performance advantage but still...

    B - Move to McLaren. They need him more than he needs them, that's for sure. The money has got to be tempting however recent reports state that they're suffering an internal revolt, the fact that they're currently the slowest of the Renault team's won't go unnoticed either. New front end aero regulations for next year though and new engine regs after that, could DR be tempted to join on the basis of what could be? That and the challenge of pushing the team up the grid. I really can't see it though, it'll be a junior driver in the other car and that will weaken the team's development rate, if he stays at RB he'll know that his teammate will push him and the team.

    C - Renault. Sainz back to TR taking Hartley's seat and DR sitting next to Hulkenburg? It's not beyond the realms of possibility, if I were Renault I'd choose the Australian over the Spaniard and the latter is only on loan, it would be gutting for Sainz however Renault will be thinking of themselves and they will be striving to take the fight to Merc and Co. It would be a bit of a coup if they pull it off, maybe TR will request Sainz back anyway.

    McLaren will be in serious trouble if Alonso leaves and they can't attract another top driver, that could put them into the same tailspin that Williams appear to be in. The big question for me though is if DR does leave RB who will take his place?
    Last edited by CardShark; 21st June 2018 at 11:41.

  38. #888
    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...clerc-1047195/

    Come on Ferrari, have a whip-around and get Ricciardo in red. Please!

  39. #889
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    Quote Originally Posted by CardShark View Post

    Come on Ferrari, have a whip-around and get Ricciardo in red. Please!
    Vettel is their top guy. They do not do two top dogs, so a next gen. pupil is ideal for them.

    DR best seat is imo at RB and Renault a distant second. A two year McLaren stint will most likely be the golden handshake end of stardom career.
    Last edited by Huertecilla; 21st June 2018 at 17:50.

  40. #890
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Vettel is their top guy. They do not do top men and a next gen. pupil is ideal for them.

    DR best seat is imo at RB and Renault a distant second. A two year McLaren stint will most likely be the golden handshake end of stardom career.
    It's for purely selfish reasons that I'd like to see him at Ferrari, in fact there's just the one.

    I want to see him up against Vettel.

  41. #891
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    Quote Originally Posted by CardShark View Post

    I want to see him up against Vettel.
    Then you do not want him at Ferrari because he would not be allowed to light a fire to Vettel.

  42. #892
    Quote Originally Posted by CardShark View Post

    C - Renault. Sainz back to TR taking Hartley's seat and DR sitting next to Hulkenburg? It's not beyond the realms of possibility, if I were Renault I'd choose the Australian over the Spaniard and the latter is only on loan, it would be gutting for Sainz however Renault will be thinking of themselves and they will be striving to take the fight to Merc and Co. It would be a bit of a coup if they pull it off, maybe TR will request Sainz back anyway.

    McLaren will be in serious trouble if Alonso leaves and they can't attract another top driver, that could put them into the same tailspin that Williams appear to be in. The big question for me though is if DR does leave RB who will take his place?
    There is another scenario involving these drivers: Sainz goes to RBR to be the #2 to MV. RBR get a driver known to them and one who is unlikely to rock the boat. Of course, this requires Gasly staying at TR but ultimately another year at that team won't hurt and it's perhaps too soon to have MV and him in the 'lead' team.

  43. #893
    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff W View Post
    There is another scenario involving these drivers: Sainz goes to RBR to be the #2 to MV. RBR get a driver known to them and one who is unlikely to rock the boat. Of course, this requires Gasly staying at TR but ultimately another year at that team won't hurt and it's perhaps too soon to have MV and him in the 'lead' team.
    A Sainz/Ricciardo swap is a possibility, we'll have to wait and see.

  44. #894
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    Maybe the first sign of what is going to happen in the driver market: according to Autosport it looks like Ferrari will replace Kimi Raikkonen with Charles Leclerc for next year. This would close off one of the obvious moves for DR.

  45. #895
    Quote Originally Posted by ziphos View Post
    Maybe the first sign of what is going to happen in the driver market: according to Autosport it looks like Ferrari will replace Kimi Raikkonen with Charles Leclerc for next year. This would close off one of the obvious moves for DR.
    It's possible, but in my opinion a year too early for Leclerc, brilliant though he is. I just think that he needs another year at Sauber.

    Ferrari's Plan A would have seen Jules Bianchi already partnering Vettel, but we all know why that didn't happen. In Charles Leclerc Ferrari have found a real star, but he needs more experience in order to run consistently at the front, which is what he will be required to do. Kimi's an ideal wingman for Vettel, in the same way that Massa and Barrichello worked well with Schumacher, the main reason being that they needed a similar car setup to the main man.
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  46. #896
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    Personal opinion but I find it strange that red bull are putting so much stock in MV when DR is (in my eyes) a much better driver in nearly all areas. I'd give MV the edge in the wet. I'd be making sure I kept hold of DR no matter what. Also think Leclerc would benefit from from one more year in Sauber to gain more experience so he would be a more worthwhile back up man to Vettel. I feel the following drivers should be let go but in all likelihood bring a lot of cash into teams so will be around for a while - Sirotkin, Stroll, Hartley, Ericsson and Grosjean (always felt he could be so much better but never really seems to deliver).

  47. #897
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    Quote Originally Posted by subseastu View Post
    Personal opinion but I find it strange that red bull are putting so much stock in MV when DR is (in my eyes) a much better driver in nearly all areas.
    Completely agree. Just seen an interview with Christian Horner, he seemed confident that DV would stay at Red Bull, but it doesn't seem to me like the best place for DR.

    MV is much younger, so can take a gamble that Red Bull Honda will get things right in the longer term. DR wants a world championship and really needs to get into the right car sooner rather than later.

  48. #898
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    Yesterday´s FP times give little hope for good racing.
    Fingers crossed that today sees them closer.

  50. #900
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Yesterday´s FP times give little hope for good racing.
    Fingers crossed that today sees them closer.
    I don't see much changing. Even the drivers are saying overtaking will be hard, they have asked for the chicane on the Mistral Straight to be removed to give them more opportunities, but this can't happen for this years race.

    On another note, the circuit may be OK, but it's not good for TV. For most of the circuit the cameras are so far away from the cars they look like they are going quite slowly. So overall a thumbs down for Paul Ricard.

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