Formula 1 2018

[Backward point]

Might as well start a new thread for the new season.

With the announcement of Sergey Sirotkin as the second inexperienced driver at Williams (see Mark Hughes' thoughts here: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...ntent=sirotkin) all available seats have now been allocated.

The front runners, Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull and Force India are all unchanged, and it's in the midfield where we find the new arrivals and most of the intrigue - will Sauber be able to move up the food chain with more money and an Alfa Romeo badged up to date Ferrari power unit? What will happen to Williams as a result of having two inexperienced drivers but one of the most experienced senior engineering lineups? What has Mercedes been up to with their new power unit (allegedly a completely new design)?

Pre-season testing begins on 26 February.

[snowman]

I guess we'll have to see what Williams' new hire does, but it doesn't bode well for the team...

Another slump into the doldrums they seemed to have escaped a couple of seasons ago?

M

[CardShark]

You were only a day or two away from getting a nudge from me to start the '18 thread, BP!

Shortly off to work so little time to comment...

As you've said, Williams announced their line-up earlier today. Interesting times ahead for the team given their relative depth of leadership experience and complete lack of seat time for their drivers - it's the Red Bull line-up that I'm really interested in though, and that of Force India. It would be easy to pick the fastest drivers from Merc and Ferrari yet the next pairings are harder to distinguish, and you can bet your bottom dollar that each of the 4 will be doing their absolute upmost to out-score their teammates.

[Geoff W]

Worried for Williams with that line-up - it looks pretty average and I can't see them coming close to FI or Renault. So battling with Sauber and Haas, which is a shame.

[adrianw]

Money talks...................not talent

[Andyg]

Money talks...................not talent

That statement epitomises F1 really. However talent certainly helps as well.

[ViperStripes]

Worried for Williams with that line-up - it looks pretty average and I can't see them coming close to FI or Renault. So battling with Sauber and Haas, which is a shame.

Completely agree. Think Williams shot themselves in the foot. The amount of screen (and other media coverage) time they would get with Kubica in the car would be massive. Certainly between now and the first race. You can't buy that sort of exposure and their main sponsors would have been very happy with the increased exposure pushing up sponsorship value for next season.

Clearly factors other than the money the Russian brings at play. Maybe a Russian title sponsor considering Williams for 2019 i.e. promise of much more money. Pressure from Liberty Media for the Russian market?

[subseastu]

I'm slightly confused by the Alfa badged engine. Have they actually done anything to it or is it just slapping their name on the Ferrari engine as it came out of the factory and ponied up the sponsorship money?

[CardShark]

I'm slightly confused by the Alfa badged engine. Have they actually done anything to it or is it just slapping their name on the Ferrari engine as it came out of the factory and ponied up the sponsorship money?

It'll be a "badge engineered" 2018 Ferrari unit, identical in all bar name. Last year Sauber suffered by having to use the '16 powerplants, in theory this season should see them take a step forward.

[Bravo73]

I'm slightly confused by the Alfa badged engine. Have they actually done anything to it or is it just slapping their name on the Ferrari engine as it came out of the factory and ponied up the sponsorship money?

Or, look at it this way: it is a Fiat engine with the badge of one Fiat division (Alfa Romeo) rather than another one (Ferrari).

[Jeremy67]

Completely agree. Think Williams shot themselves in the foot. The amount of screen (and other media coverage) time they would get with Kubica in the car would be massive. Certainly between now and the first race. You can't buy that sort of exposure and their main sponsors would have been very happy with the increased exposure pushing up sponsorship value for next season.

Clearly factors other than the money the Russian brings at play. Maybe a Russian title sponsor considering Williams for 2019 i.e. promise of much more money. Pressure from Liberty Media for the Russian market?

This, no one has a hunger for success like RK, he has that champions drive and would have really pushed them, Sad to say but I think they have become too risk averse and are a spent force.

[CardShark]

Clearly factors other than the money the Russian brings at play. Maybe a Russian title sponsor considering Williams for 2019 i.e. promise of much more money. Pressure from Liberty Media for the Russian market?

Or Williams quite simply thought that the Russian was the best choice in terms of in-car performance.

It's pretty obvious to all, Williams included, that hiring RK would increase the team's exposure and that this may increase sponsorship interest - it would make a great story. You could argue that Williams deserves some kudos for not choosing him given how popular, and easy, decision it would be, certainly for many of the fans of both RK and the sport.

Perhaps we're being unjust to both Sirotkin and Williams, maybe they really did go for the driver they thought could give them the best results - that's the way, ultimately, to make money.

[jaytip]

Lots of people are banging the Kubica drum but was he not already out of F1 when he had his rallying accident?

[Lampoc]

Lots of people are banging the Kubica drum but was he not already out of F1 when he had his rallying accident?

No, he had the accident pre-season when he was already signed to drive for Lotus-Renault.
Personally I'm interested to see how much Leclerc will beat Ericsson by - destroy him hopefully. I also reckon Sirotkin is going to make Stroll look worse than he already is.

[Geoff W]

I'm not saying Sirotkin isn't talented, he clearly can drive a car to a high level. High enough that Williams though he would be the equal to Kubica, which the tests seemed to bare out. But if Williams really want to challenge for that 4th spot in the championship, I don't see that line up being able to challenge what FI and Renault have put together. Indeed,I think Haas, on balance has a better line up.

Definitely interested in seeing what Leclerc can do, he's been hyped for a while so unless he's significantly faster than Marcus, it will be a disappointment. Sure the car is likely to be a bit of a dog but he'll need a decent gap to his team mate if he's being groomed for a top tier drive.

[jaytip]

No, he had the accident pre-season when he was already signed to drive for Lotus-Renault.
Personally I'm interested to see how much Leclerc will beat Ericsson by - destroy him hopefully. I also reckon Sirotkin is going to make Stroll look worse than he already is.

Ahh, ok, thank you for that. I thought he was already out of the sport and switched to rallying.

[westy]

Martin Whitmarsh brought in as a consultant to look at reducing costs...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/42719672

[reecie]

Sirotkin brings double the sponsorship the Kubica could. He was also faster in the testing they did when they analysed it. Though both were slower than Massa anyway. Di Resta is probably a bit gutted as despite a good drive when he had the chance he seems to have not really been in the running.

[CardShark]

Martin Whitmarsh brought in as a consultant to look at reducing costs...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/42719672

He's obviously found it safe to return now that Big Ron has left the circus

[Saint-Just]

It is more an Alfa engine (as B73 said, part of the same group) than RB will be Aston Martin...

[watchcollector1]

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/146846-...it-car-in-2017

Paddy Lowe pretty much admits having a (very poor) rookie like Stroll in the team cost them a lot of points and 4th place last season which begs the question why are they doing exactly the same thing this season with Sirotkin?!

William's are becoming a laughing stock by prioritising revenue from lackluster pay drivers over results on track and ultimately the reputation of the team. This will cost them prize money and sponsor revenue and is a strategy I would expect from a struggling backmarker not a midfield team with William's heritage.

[Backward point]

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/146846-...it-car-in-2017

Paddy Lowe pretty much admits having a (very poor) rookie like Stroll in the team cost them a lot of points and 4th place last season which begs the question why are they doing exactly the same thing this season with Sirotkin?!

William's are becoming a laughing stock by prioritising revenue from lackluster pay drivers over results on track and ultimately the reputation of the team. This will cost them prize money and sponsor revenue and is a strategy I would expect from a struggling backmarker not a midfield team with William's heritage.

I know I've said it more than once before, but Williams do look disturbingly like Tyrrell in their declining years.

[Backward point]

As it's a miserable, cold, wet Saturday here's an interesting article from Mark Hughes on the likely evolutions of the 2018 Ferrari and Mercedes cars:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...ercedesferrari

The 2017 regulations brought about some fundamental changes in aerodynamics, as the cars were bulkier, and the floors wider. Now, with a season's experience and terabytes of data available, we can expect to see some creativity from the aerodynamicists as each team strive for that elusive but all-important advantage.

[amnesia]

Channel 4 races have been announced today :

2018 F1 TV schedule in the UK

Race	Date	Live on
Australian Grand Prix	March 23-25	Sky
Bahrain Grand Prix	April 6-8	Sky/Channel 4
Chinese Grand Prix	April 13-15	Sky
Azerbaijan Grand Prix	April 27-29	Sky/Channel 4
Spanish Grand Prix	May 11-13	Sky
Monaco Grand Prix	May 25-27	Sky/Channel 4
Canadian Grand Prix	June 8-10	Sky
French Grand Prix	June 22-24	Sky
Austrian Grand Prix	June 29-July 1	Sky/Channel 4
British Grand Prix	July 6-8	Sky/Channel 4
German Grand Prix	July 20-22	Sky
Hungarian Grand Prix	July 27-29	Sky
Belgian Grand Prix	August 24-26	Sky/Channel 4
Italian Grand Prix	August 31-September 2	Sky
Singapore Grand Prix	September 14-16	Sky/Channel 4
Russian Grand Prix	September 28-30	Sky
Japanese Grand Prix	October 5-7	Sky/Channel 4
United States Grand Prix	October 19-21	Sky/Channel 4
Mexican Grand Prix	October 26-28	Sky
Brazilian Grand Prix	November 9-11	Sky
Abu Dhabi Grand Prix	November 23-25	Sky/Channel 4

All races will ONLY be available via Sky in 2019

[Culminator]

The world is becoming a duller place...

[Huertecilla]

The world is becoming a duller place...

Only the main road.
There are exciting enough sidewalks.
Sanitising the main road ever more, just makes those sidewalks more accessible/acceptable/mainstream.

[adrianw]

Only the main road.
There are exciting enough sidewalks.
Sanitising the main road ever more, just makes those sidewalks more accessible/acceptable/mainstream.

Just watching a James Bond film on TV, be interesting to see where this all goes

[Andy 264]

Unbelievable.

[Geoff W]

Do grid girls make overtaking easier? Put GPs on classic tracks rather than in Baku? Nope, so I really couldn't care less about the news.

[Huertecilla]

Do grid girls make overtaking easier? Put GPs on classic tracks rather than in Baku? Nope, so I really couldn't care less about the news.

Ofcourse it has nothing to do with the racing perse but then F1 is a spectacle, a show.
The girls are part of the show; have been part of it for over half a century.

Oh man, F1 becoming also sanitised by feminist.
I bet James Hunt would have had a wonderful practical response to it.

Anyway, it is the way it is going; no noise, no fumes, no danger, no strong words, no sex = towards silent e-cars in a sterile package with ´drivers´ behaving on and off the track as per the official guidelines.

[TBKBABAB]

Sauber is the first one where the Halo really stands out (guess because of the colour) and looks pretty ugly.

[Backward point]

A few photos of the new Renault:

https://www.pitpass.com/gallery/2017...aunch-Renault/

[Itsguy]

On the grid girls issue, I can see that brands and sponsors are terrified of being on the wrong side of the #MeToo campaign, even if there's no real relationship. Of course it's old fashioned, and if Apple deployed a bunch of scantily clad cheerleaders you'd think they'd lost their minds. And yet, it does fit in F1, which in theory thrives on glamor, speed, danger, and excitement.

The assumption by The Guardian, without even bothering to analyse it, that the job is demeaning is also irritating in the extreme. What about models then? Actors? Pop stars?

The decision feels repressive and repressed, and makes the sport and the world a little more boring.

[CardShark]

Bye bye grid girls, hello kids.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...h-kids-1002307

"This will be an extraordinary moment for these youngsters: imagine, standing beside their heroes, watch as they prepare to race, the elite of the elite in motorsport, to be there, alongside them in those precious few minutes just before the start," said F1 managing director Sean Bratches. "What an unforgettable experience, for them, and their families. An inspiration to keep driving, training and learning so that they can dream of one day being there themselves. What better way to inspire the next generation of Formula 1 heroes."

That very much reads as if Sean Bratches feels the need to sell the idea, personally.

[petethegeek]

Bye bye grid girls, hello kids.

And why not indeed? Other sports have been successfully pursuing this kind of approach for some time now.

[CardShark]

I suppose my comment could read a little negatively, it wasn't supposed to. I've no issue whatsoever with their decision and I can indeed see the positives, and as I'd said previously I'm not exactly going to miss the grid girls anyway (and I don't think I'm going to be alone here) so to provide some inspiration for the younger generation instead is a good thing.

[PJ S]

Bye bye grid girls, hello kids.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...h-kids-1002307

That very much reads as if Sean Bratches feels the need to sell the idea, personally.

As if they should need any additional incentive to make it into F1.
It does sound as if he's trying desperately hard to convince himself, never mind sell the proposition to even the neutrals.

Bye bye F1, it was nice knowing you these past 25+ years!

[Andyg]

I wonder how many of these kids will be female.

More males in F1! Just what the circus needs. Not!

[CardShark]

As if they should need any additional incentive to make it into F1.
It does sound as if he's trying desperately hard to convince himself, never mind sell the proposition to even the neutrals.

Bye bye F1, it was nice knowing you these past 25+ years!

At the risk of sounding like one of The Fast Show characters, these were my initial thoughts. The hungriest of young guns wouldn't need that kind of motivation and his statement was very much "think of the children!" in order to mask the decision to drop the girls, it's almost a distraction if you will.

It's a shame that you feel like walking away from the sport over such a decision however I guess that's the power of marketing. Get it (subjectively) wrong and you start to lose fans and followers of the sport for many years. It should be about the quality of the racing, the reality is that it isn't.

I wonder how many of these kids will be female.

More males in F1! Just what the circus needs. Not!

It does feel as though Liberty have opened themselves up to scrutiny over who gets to be with the drivers. Too many boys and they'll get it in the neck, too many girls and they'll be accused of positive discrimination.

[Kingstepper]

Why replace girls with kids, just do w/o.

[Integrale]

Can't get excited about this season, but will inevitably get drawn in.

Something wrong when the most interesting bit is the "magazine TV" on the qualifying show. The talk is more gripping than the on track action.

Fast forward on catch up!

[Backward point]

Stepping away from the free global publicity that Liberty have managed to achieve with a simple press release announcing the non-appearance of grid girls next season, here are a couple of interesting videos for the F1 tech geeks showing the importance of the front wings in managing air flow, which also explain why overtaking is still difficult in today's Formula 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjsUwFHQbWo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXKQezyl2Oo

Willem Toet is a former Ferrari aerodynamicist, and a very useful hillclimber in his own right. Well worth listening to.

[PickleB]

Stepping away from the free global publicity that Liberty have managed to achieve with a simple press release announcing the non-appearance of grid girls next season, here are a couple of interesting videos for the F1 tech geeks showing the importance of the front wings in managing air flow, which also explain why overtaking is still difficult in today's Formula 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjsUwFHQbWo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXKQezyl2Oo

Willem Toet is a former Ferrari aerodynamicist, and a very useful hillclimber in his own right. Well worth listening to.

Thanks for those. They led me to another of their videos: F1's new driver weight rules explained.

[Backward point]

My pleasure, Bob. I can lose hours on that sort of F1 geekery!

[Bravo73]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjsUwFHQbWo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXKQezyl2Oo

Scarbs’ insight has always been remarkable. It’s good to see that he is now making a decent career out of it.

Edited to add: if you haven’t already discovered it, this will let you binge on some of his older stuff: http://scarbsf1.com

[lordloz]

grid kids....yuk.... it's not soft turf.....
& there's a reason kids are barred from pits and grid, hot engines and exhausts, cables, packed with people on hot hard tarmac,noise Db levels, etc...


so grid girl role models............girls like Jo Polley in Brit Touring Cars, in World motorcycling Ana Carasco & Maria Herrera or brit girls Maria Costello (who beat my mate Phil at the Isle Of Man) & Georgina Polden who are all racing motorcycles don't need role models they just get on with it (ana had her own topless grid boy for balance)

Bev Turner who was crap on ITV & has slated F1 ever since has been rubbing her hands with glee as apparently she has been campaigning against it for 15 years! but we only found this out last week...
however, she was quite tidy in her day (and is dreary but attractive now) & the funniest thing is grid girls have found plenty of pictures of pull the ladder up Bev in various stages of undress in bikinis and lingerie so of course liberally posted them....

as well as being very intelligent, pleasant polite and showing indeed they want to do this & don't need any feminazis telling them how to earn a living....


meanwhile British Superbikes is confirmed as keeping grid girls & ignore Liberty's decision as Stuart Higgs race director thought that he'd found a solution to grid girls but couldn't make it work after all.......

[Backward point]

Purely in the interests of research, you wouldn't happen to have any links to the once-lovely Ms Turner in her prime? I was always a bit of a fan....

[jaytip]

I see the shark fin and T-wing have been banned then. Good, I think they destroyed the lines of the cars.

[CardShark]

I see the shark fin and T-wing have been banned then. Good, I think they destroyed the lines of the cars.

Agreed.

Have a look at the Williams FW41 for example, unveiled earlier this evening. Looking pretty slick IMO*.





It's the first car that both Paddy Lowe (ex Merc) and Dirk de Beer (ex Ferrari Chief Aero) have had full influence over from concept to completion. The team are talking about taking a different approach to the aerodynamics, are they trying to disguise something with what appears to be a matt black finish to the lower parts of the car or is the livery race spec?

*I'm ignoring the Halo, I think we may have discussed this enough already. Besides, ultimately I think we'll all get used to them anyway.

[Backward point]

There's definitely something going on around the lower sidepod and floor area of the Williams, because they've tried very hard to hide it. I'm hoping that Giorgio Piola has his pencil sharpened for Barcelona, and will be snooping around the paddock and garages to give us an insight into what's actually going on with this year's cars.

Williams, as CS says above, have produced their first car under the guidance of Paddy Lowe and Dirk de Beer. Under the hybrid formula they've relied on a low-drag design philosophy, but that isn't necessarily the way to go, as Force India have shown. The problem that Williams have is that they are geared up as a customer engine team, but with most fabrication and aero work in-house, whereas Force India outsource most of their aero and fabrication. Williams can produce and upgrade parts easier and quicker, Force India have far lower overheads, and have finished higher than Williams in the Constructors' Championship (and therefore earned more money from FOM) in recent years. Again this season the two teams will be scrapping over fourth in the Constructors' Championship, but they are likely to be joined by Renault, who have the strongest driver pairing outside of the Top 3.

Much hot air has been expended over McLaren's chances in 2018, and obviously nobody knows the relative ultimate pace of the contenders until Qualifying in Melbourne, as some will keep their powder dry through the Practice sessions as well as pre-season Testing. McLaren will either join Renault, Williams and Force India at the front of the midfield or continue to disappoint their shareholders and fans. I remember that at the start of last season the McLaren fans were getting more excited about the prospect of the car being painted orange, and not about the possibility that Honda might pull a rabbit from the hat and actually make a powerful and reliable power pack. Ultimately McLaren's orange paint proved less disastrous than Honda's engines. A move from the weakest, least reliable engine package to the second weakest, least reliable engine package might again prove character-building for the Woking faithful.

Which leaves the two customer Ferrari/Alfa Romeo teams, both with up to date power units. Ferrari will want both teams to be competitive, and to be capable of mixing it with the lesser Mercedes propelled runners, and if Haas can get their brakes sorted out to the satisfaction of M. Grosjean, who knows? Sauber are effectively a new team this year, and have the most exciting Formula 1 newcomer for many years in Charles Leclerc, so for the first time in many seasons there are no "also-rans". While the fight for ultimate honours should be closer as the Big 3 hone their 2017 cars with a year's development behind them, the other customer teams are more evenly matched than ever before.

We might just have a classic season of Grand Prix racing to look forward to.