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Thread: Wanted :No date, manual wind, 100metre water resistance.

  1. #1
    Master
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    Wanted :No date, manual wind, 100metre water resistance.

    Such a watch seems surprisingly hard to find. I like manual-wind and a watch without a date on the dial.And it should be water resistant to 10atm, just to give a safety margin. The obvious candidates such as the Speedy Pro, don't have the water resistance. Others have a date.
    Any suggestions?

  2. #2
    Budget?

    Must be a Patek or VC out there with those requirements.

  3. #3
    Craftsman
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    Smiths prs 29? Nomos Club?

  4. #4
    Master
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    Wanted :No date, manual wind, 100metre water resistance.

    Nomos Club. It’s a beauty!


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    Last edited by lughugger; 12th December 2017 at 16:23.

  5. #5
    Schofield Daymark ?

    https://schofieldwatchcompany.com/product/daymark/



    Sorry just realised not manual wind !

  6. #6
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    PRS 29a Smiths


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  7. #7
    29b for me
    It's just a matter of time...

  8. #8
    Master
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    Well, well; both the Nomos Club and Smiths do fit the bill. I would never have thought of either. Any other candidates come to mind? As for Patek and VC. I wouldn't dare submerge such a watch, even if they make one. Too expensive, too delicate.
    If only Rolex would make such a watch...but they will never make a manual again, I fear,

  9. #9
    Grand Master
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    Fail to see why the OP wants the watch to be waterproof to 10 bar! The safety margin argument doesn`t really add up, it isn`t like measuring the amount of tread on tyres. This topics been done to death several times, no wish to re-open the debate, but finding a hand-wound no date watch isn`t easy and stipulating such a WR figure won`t help.

    I tested a TAG Monza case I've been working on last night, that's rated to 3 bar and that's what I tested it at; looking at the wet tester and the pressure gauge reminded me just how rigorous a rating 3 bar is, 30 metres is a lot of water!

    Interestingly, I`d fitted new pushers and one leaked initially where the pusher body is pressed into the case. After refitting both using Loctite the problem was solved and the case was fine. This proves my point, a leaking case is a leaking case and this leaked initially at 6 inches of water in the sink! Usually they either leak or they don`t, and a 30M WR watch in good condition will be fine. A watch rated to 10Bar will leak at 6 inches if it has a fault, the 'safety margin philosophy is flawed IMO.

    Hope the OP finds what he's looking for............but it doubt he needs to have 100M WR!

    Paul

  10. #10
    Grand Master jwg663's Avatar
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    Some Panerai Radiomirs will fit your manual, no-date, 100m WR requirements.
    ______

    ​Jim.

  11. #11
    Master Orange Peel's Avatar
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    Omega Railmaster XXL 49mm
    Hand wound, no date and 150m WR
    This ones sold but you get the idea?
    It's a bit big though for most and probably like hens teeth to find?

    https://www.blowers-jewellers.co.uk/...ailmaster-xxl/

  12. #12
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Get an Oysterdate Precision 6694, manual wind, screw down crown w/r 100m after a service and small enough to go anywhere!

    You might have to ignore the cyclops thoughI'll get me coat!

  13. #13
    Master
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    Amazing how many ideas pop up. For which, thanks. The really obvious....a Panerei...never occurred to me. A base model, 44mm, might do the trick, so I will investigate. I have never owned a Panerei. Maybe the time has come. But I want one of the simplest models. And certainly not 47mm,.,....

  14. #14
    Master MarkO's Avatar
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    Hublot classic fusion will give you 50m WR
    Last edited by MarkO; 12th December 2017 at 20:20.

  15. #15
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Does it have to be new? How about a vintage manual wind Vostok Amfibia?

  16. #16
    Master MarkO's Avatar
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    https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/wa....OO.D027CA.01/

    As you didn't mention budget - AP Royal Oak Offshore Tourbillon Chronograph..


  17. #17
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkO View Post
    https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/wa....OO.D027CA.01/

    As you didn't mention budget - AP Royal Oak Offshore Tourbillon Chronograph..

    When my lottery number comes up.

  18. #18
    Master zelig's Avatar
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    Leftfield option...



    The Pinion Pure.
    Available in polished stainless steel, the Pure is water resistant to 100 metres
    and is powered by a Swiss made handwound movement.
    ...from a TZer too

    z
    Last edited by zelig; 12th December 2017 at 21:24.

  19. #19
    Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
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    Speedmaster is 50m wrt. Enough for all but diving? Martyn

  20. #20
    Craftsman Cornholio's Avatar
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    Already mentioned several times. Beautiful watch.


  21. #21
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    Heuer Autavia 2446 and 2446C. Cheap at half the price.
    "A man of little significance"

  22. #22
    Master MarkO's Avatar
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    OP can I ask why specifically manual wind - given that you could manually wind an automatic if you wanted and 100m often comes with screw down crown.
    If it is about case thickness then would you accept a thin automatic?

  23. #23
    Craftsman
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    Lots of Panerai variants would fit that bill. There's one on SC at the moment

  24. #24
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Fail to see why the OP wants the watch to be waterproof to 10 bar! The safety margin argument doesn`t really add up, it isn`t like measuring the amount of tread on tyres. This topics been done to death several times, no wish to re-open the debate, but finding a hand-wound no date watch isn`t easy and stipulating such a WR figure won`t help.

    I tested a TAG Monza case I've been working on last night, that's rated to 3 bar and that's what I tested it at; looking at the wet tester and the pressure gauge reminded me just how rigorous a rating 3 bar is, 30 metres is a lot of water!

    Interestingly, I`d fitted new pushers and one leaked initially where the pusher body is pressed into the case. After refitting both using Loctite the problem was solved and the case was fine. This proves my point, a leaking case is a leaking case and this leaked initially at 6 inches of water in the sink! Usually they either leak or they don`t, and a 30M WR watch in good condition will be fine. A watch rated to 10Bar will leak at 6 inches if it has a fault, the 'safety margin philosophy is flawed IMO.

    Hope the OP finds what he's looking for............but it doubt he needs to have 100M WR!

    Paul
    3 bar is 20 metres, not 30 metres.


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  25. #25
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berin View Post
    3 bar is 20 metres, not 30 metres.


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    No, usually pressures are stated as gauge pressures, not absolute pressures, so 3 Bar would normally be 30m

  26. #26
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by berin View Post
    3 bar is 20 metres, not 30 metres.


    Sent from my iPad using TZ-UK mobile app
    We’re talking bar (g) not bar absolute. 1 bar =1019.72 cm water so 3 bar is 30M. To be pedantic you could correct for the density of water at a given temperature but I think thst’s getting a bit carried away.

    Paul

  27. #27
    Master
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    The reason I would like 100metre water resistance is for two reasons; it gives a nice safety margin as the watch ages and seals weaken and, to get 100metre wr you have to build a tough watch, which has a number of benefits.
    Most of us own cars which easily do 120mph, even though we rarely go above 80mph. Big margins are strangely comforting. Not strictly necessary, but reassuring. Many things in life aren't entirely rational.
    Like expensive watches.

  28. #28
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    Peace of mind is lovely

  29. #29
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    We’re talking bar (g) not bar absolute. 1 bar =1019.72 cm water so 3 bar is 30M. To be pedantic you could correct for the density of water at a given temperature but I think thst’s getting a bit carried away.

    Paul
    Yes, 1bar equals more or less 10m of water, but we already have 1 bar at the surface. So 3 bar absolute/ambient equals 1 bar at the surface plus 2 bar, which is 20m depth of water. A diving gauge is calibrated to read zero at the surface, so it will read 30 meters at 3 bar of water pressure, though.

  30. #30
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Wanted :No date, manual wind, 100metre water resistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by berin View Post
    Yes, 1bar equals more or less 10m of water, but we already have 1 bar at the surface. So 3 bar absolute/ambient equals 1 bar at the surface plus 2 bar, which is 20m depth of water. A diving gauge is calibrated to read zero at the surface, so it will read 30 meters at 3 bar of water pressure, though.
    Unless your watch was assembled in a vacuum, would it not already have 1 bar of pressure on the inside as well? In otherwords, at sea level the effective pressure is 0 or neutral. Therefore a 5 atm rating would allow you to go down 50m.

    Is that right?

  31. #31
    Journeyman
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    Quote Originally Posted by paskinner View Post
    The reason I would like 100metre water resistance is for two reasons; it gives a nice safety margin as the watch ages and seals weaken and, to get 100metre wr you have to build a tough watch, which has a number of benefits.
    Most of us own cars which easily do 120mph, even though we rarely go above 80mph. Big margins are strangely comforting. Not strictly necessary, but reassuring. Many things in life aren't entirely rational.
    Like expensive watches.
    I believe if the seals weaken then whether it's 1 bar or 100 bars the case will leak. The water resistance is only as good as the seals if you like. Manufactures usually state something along the lines of getting it pressure tested once a year especially if you do get it wet regularly. I appreciate the feeling of wanting to have a robust watch and people relied on this when mechanical watches were the only realistic timekeeping devices for the individual. But they have always been instruments for telling the time with fairly vulnerable weak points for potential failure. Now, decades on from the first the days of g shocks, this is more true than ever.

  32. #32
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    Unless your watch was assembled in a vacuum, would it not already have 1 bar of pressure on the inside as well? In otherwords, at sea level the effective pressure is 0 or neutral. Therefore a 5 atm rating would allow you to go down 50m.

    Is that right?
    Yes, I believe so, if, as Sweets said above watch pressures ratings are gauge pressures not absolute pressures, in which I'm sure he's right. However (and this opens a whole other discussion) it's not recommended to use a watch for diving unless it has a 200m rating, and has a rating as a Dive watch.

    Actually, as has been mentioned, probably more down to age and condition of seals etc. - a 200m dive watch with a crumbly o ring wont be as waterproof as a 50m rated watch with good seal

  33. #33
    Hamilton Khaki Mechanical.
    ETA 6497 manual wind.
    100m (10 bar) WR.
    No date.

  34. #34
    Nomos 38 Campus or Campus night; meets all the criteria. Lovely looking watch, IMO.

  35. #35
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnboy24 View Post
    Hamilton Khaki Mechanical.
    ETA 6497 manual wind.
    100m (10 bar) WR.
    No date.
    +1

  36. #36
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    Unless your watch was assembled in a vacuum, would it not already have 1 bar of pressure on the inside as well? In otherwords, at sea level the effective pressure is 0 or neutral. Therefore a 5 atm rating would allow you to go down 50m.

    Is that right?
    You tell him.......I can’t be arsed. It’s bloody obvious when you think about it.

    As for the OP’s quest, he would be unwise to reject a watch simply because the WR was below 100 metres, but he’s got that number in his head and he’s unlikely to change, even though the logic’s flawed.

    I like hand-wound vintage watches but I’m struggling to see the appeal if he’s looking for a new watch.

    Paul
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 13th December 2017 at 22:00.

  37. #37
    The logic isn’t that flawed though is it Paul, it’s just not consistent across manufacturers. In my personal experience some 50m rated watches are about as water resistant as a paper towel, whereas some are great like an early Casio I used to own :)
    It's just a matter of time...

  38. #38
    Grand Master
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    A 50M WR rated watch should be just that, waterproof to a pressure of 5bar. Likewise a 30M watch should be waterproof to 30M. If they aten’t they’re either badly assembled or, in the case of old watches, the seals have degraded or the sealing surfaces have suffered from pitting and are unable to form a seal. Once these defects are present it doesn’t matter what the original rating was, all bets are now off and the watch will probably leak in 6 inches of water.

    This is why the OP’s logic is flawed, the concept of ‘safety margin’ is unrealistic if the watch leaks owing to a flaw or fault.

    The TAG Monza I worked on was a classic case, I fitted a new pusher which press-fitted into the case, thus relying on metal to metal interference for the seal, and it leaked. It leaked at 6 inches water pressure because the watch had a flaw. I subsequently refitted the pushers using loctite and the watch passed a 3 bar test. This shouldn’t have been necessary but it was, and that’s why a case that’s had major work needs testing.

    Think of it like being pregnant, usually there are no shades of grey! If a watch leaks it leaks. With old watches that have pitting on sealing faces a scenario where the watch will seal up to 1 bar but not beyond is possible, I’ve had that myself, but generally it’s ‘ all or nothing’.......regardless of what it says on the dial.

    Paul

  39. #39
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Get an Oysterdate Precision 6694, manual wind, screw down crown w/r 100m after a service and small enough to go anywhere!

    You might have to ignore the cyclops thoughI'll get me coat!
    Good choice. I remember picking one of these up for about £700! That was about 8-10 years ago mind

  40. #40
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegamanic View Post
    The logic isn’t that flawed though is it Paul, it’s just not consistent across manufacturers. In my personal experience some 50m rated watches are about as water resistant as a paper towel, whereas some are great like an early Casio I used to own :)
    Exactly and although I would agree with the comments already made about WR, I would never swim or snorkel with anything less than 100/200m. My wife's 50m watch was a total disaster when it came to WR. Didn't bother after that. Illogical perhaps but more cost effective

  41. #41
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    Is there a Glycine Combat that ticks all the boxes? On the Field Watch thread Meijlinder posted an auto version that's date free and 100m. I've a vague memory of them also using the 2801 but I might simply be getting confused with the Hamilton.

  42. #42
    Master
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    Tick, tick, tick, boom! Have one on my wrist right now that meets the criteria ;)....


  43. #43
    Master
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    Thanks for all the suggestions . There is more choice than I had realised. I decided to chicken-out and buy a Speedmaster Pro TinTin. This replaces my Speedy Tuesday, which wasn't quite right for me...and, to be honest, made a profit.
    But I haven't the nerve to test the water resistance by swimming. So the TinTin might get wet when washing-up or walking in heavy rain, but that's the limit. Off now to try to get a suitable strap. Never got on with the bracelet. Once again, thanks for all the ideas; one day.........
    Got a Hirsch Tiger strap with Omega buckle.
    Last edited by paskinner; 17th December 2017 at 15:18.

  44. #44
    It deserves an Omega Strap and deployant IMO.
    It's just a matter of time...

  45. #45
    Master
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    Have you seen the prices? And, fortunately, I prefer buckles. Even that Omega buckle cost £46. Add £65 for the strap and it doesn't come cheap. Tomorrow my Omega MD10 chronometer gets a nice brown alligator strap and I already have a proper Omega gold buckle for that.
    It all adds up. An Omega strap for that model costs £260 with a months delay.
    Last edited by paskinner; 17th December 2017 at 15:09.

  46. #46
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by paskinner View Post
    Here we are. Hirsch Tiger leather strap and proper Omega buckle.

    The strap is rubber lined and supposed to be waterproof. Just in case I fall in the water .


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