Advice on Patek Philippe

[Mick P]

I am soon due back for a longish spell in the UK and one of the things I am considering is to buy some Patek Philippes.

I know plenty of people who own Rolex and know all the pros and cons of the watch on which most of us agree.

Pros

1. Very well made and robust, they can take a fair bit of knocking.

2. Good servicing facilities.

3. Hold their value well and if bought second hand can be an investment but that's not a given.

4. Each model has a history.

Cons

1. They look a bit brash to some people and have a slight del boy image.

2. Often attracts glances thanks to the cyclops and bezels which are, in all honesty, rather noticeable.

I have 5 Rolex and am seriously thinking of keeping one ( the 1655 which is my favourite) and selling off the other 4.

I would then look to buy 2 Pateks and then I would be done.

From scratching around on the net, the pros and cons of Pateks seem to be

Pros

1. Superb quality.

2. Very discreet, no one ever notices them on the wrist.

3. Offer genuine perpetual models.

4. Well documented history.

5. Will hold their value and second hand ones often increase.

Cons

1. They need regular servicing which can take ages. I have heard off the record that it takes around 6 months but I don't have a clue if this is correct.

2. More suited to the indoor life rather than outdoors.

3. On some models the days and dates can take a few hours to change, but again I have no firm evidence of this.

The main problem I have is that I don't know anyone who owns a Patek and how do they regard them. Most Rolex owners are enthusiastic about them, do Patek owners feel the same or do they regret the decision of purchasing them ?

[kultschar]

Your pros and cons list appear to be fairly accurate.

I only have sporty models but dont regret one bit ditching Rolex, which brought unwanted attraction on the odd occassion - though def wise to keep one for more testing activities where ones PP could get a knock!! I would prefer a battle scarred Rolex then a PP!

I wouldnt say my Aquanaut or Nautlius is delicate - just simply it would not wear a ding or a scratch as well as a sporty Rolex as generally they look more elegant and better finished

Maybe Martyn can chime in since he has a dress watch PP which if I remember rightly is what you are looking for.

[ryanb741]

Would add that Pateks tend not to have hacking seconds either

[crazyp]

Out of curiosity Mick, what sort of watch are you looking at that makes you lean to Patek? Given the potential budgets we're talking about, there are some incredible watches that may be open to you.

[stefmcd]

Would add that Pateks tend not to have hacking seconds either

Every day's a school day! I'm surprised.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[Captain Morgan]

Remember Mick, you never actually own a Patrick Phillip, you merely look after it for the next generation (unless hmrc are watching)

[Jdh1]

I've owned several Patek's. I think the answer to your questions will depend on which reference or references you're considering.

[jalebi]

Nicely summarised pros and cons. I feel that Patek owners are far less common (price alone would cause it, but it's also the fact that they are inherently less flashy and therefore have less mainstream appeal), so it is much harder to find "real life" people with whom you can discuss them with, but luckily with the internet we can discuss with people online!

I'm far away from owning a Patek, but I would myself rely on online testimony as I too do not know many people with Pateks.

[Wallasey Runner]

I've owned several Patek's. I think the answer to your questions will depend on which reference or references you're considering.

Aquanaut or Nautilus at a rough guess

[paskinner]

Personally, I wouldn't assume Patek are better quality. Better finished, yes, but the movements seem more fragile...and robustness , durability when worn, is surely a key part of all-round quality. I bought a new 5711 and was struck by the feeling of mild fragility.It may be unfair, but I always felt it was not a strong watch. And I found the bracelet catch is just awkward to the point of being unpleasant. Glad to return to chavy Rolex.
Give it a try and see! You can only learn through your own experience, and you shouldn't lose money.
I'l be interested to see what you conclude. And if I seem 'hard' on Patek, I do hold them in high esteem. I just no longer want to own one.

[kultschar]

Aquanaut or Nautilus at a rough guess

Dont think so as this is what he said about mine the other month lol


“I would do a bit more planning if I were you.

If you own only one PP, it really needs to be a perpetual model, these are what separates PP from the rest of the pack. Also relying on one PP is a bit inconvenient because it needs to be serviced every five years and you will not see it for 6 months, so you do need a back up watch. Rolex are solid workhorses that you can bash about whereas a PP needs really to be in a more sedate environment such as an office etc.

I am on the look out for a 5205 but no way am I giving up a Rolex for it. If you settle for a date / hour / min / second PP, you are really not getting the benefit of what PP is about.”

[hughtrimble]

Not sure I understand the value of a perpetual calendar which remains correct for 100+ years when the watch will be unavailable for use for six months every five years...

[Omegamanic]

I like my 5711, it doesn't appear fragile - much thinner and lighter than my DSSD yes, but I don't consider it a fragile watch.

Order any number of the reference that are sought after and you won't go wrong - you may have to wait a little while, but that's about the main hardship.

I haven't owned a complicated Patek and have no such plans to do so. I am quite happy with the sportier range, as I am with Rolex. I don't see myself as being either the target market or in the earnings bracket for the more complicated Patek models in any case.

I'll always have a love of Rolex first and foremost, then Omega, and then Patek. I think If I had just stuck to Patek, then i would have a much smaller collection, with less variety, but probably it would have increased beyond the others.

[Devonian]

Personally, I wouldn't assume Patek are better quality. Better finished, yes, but the movements seem more fragile...and robustness , durability when worn, is surely a key part of all-round quality. I bought a new 5711 and was struck by the feeling of mild fragility.It may be unfair, but I always felt it was not a strong watch. And I found the bracelet catch is just awkward to the point of being unpleasant. Glad to return to chavy Rolex.
Give it a try and see! You can only learn through your own experience, and you shouldn't lose money.
I'l be interested to see what you conclude. And if I seem 'hard' on Patek, I do hold them in high esteem. I just no longer want to own one.

This ^^^

Same for me especially with the bracelet catch.

It is however a stunning watch. All I’d add is depends on what you want out of a watch, it is very light and you wouldn’t know you were wearing one. If that’s what you want then it’s perfect. Personally I do like a bit of weight on my watches.

[td1596]

Not sure I understand the value of a perpetual calendar which remains correct for 100+ years when the watch will be unavailable for use for six months every five years...

haha ive never thought of it that way. i guess it's just to show you can, a lot of these high complications become horological d**k swinging without much everyday need for them, but that's the whole point right?

[Shane]

Not all Rolex are flashy - even amongst the current models the Oyster Perpetual and Explorer are not flashy. If you then include the older models like Airking, Explorer 1016 and variants, DJ, 5513 Sub, SD, etc you probably wouldn't get a second glance. Even the YG/RG 1603 (not sure if this is the correct ref off the top of my head) DayDate on leather strap is pretty understated.

Nicely summarised pros and cons. I feel that Patek owners are far less common (price alone would cause it, but it's also the fact that they are inherently less flashy and therefore have less mainstream appeal), so it is much harder to find "real life" people with whom you can discuss them with, but luckily with the internet we can discuss with people online!

I'm far away from owning a Patek, but I would myself rely on online testimony as I too do not know many people with Pateks.

[Skyman]

Mick, your strategy is sound but four Rolex does not 2 PP make!

[aksing]

Nautilus and Aquanauts are a cut above Rolex as you say, for dress watches I find Lange more interesting than Calatravas, so check out the Saxonia (very good value), 1815 and Lange 1 as well.

[Wallasey Runner]

Mick, your strategy is sound but four Rolex does not 2 PP make!

He does have a white dial Zenith Daytona, value wise on the secondary markets that's not far short of the 5167A and the other three is the start of the pot for whatever, but yes logically Mick should have to add some cash.

[aksing]

He does have a white dial Zenith Daytona, value wise on the secondary markets that's not far short of the 5167A and the other three is the start of the pot for whatever, but yes logically Mick should have to add some cash.

5167 is really selling unworn for £17.5-18.5K now and doubt anyone without a good relationship can get from an AD now.

[aksing]

Dont think so as this is what he said about mine the other month lol


“I would do a bit more planning if I were you.

If you own only one PP, it really needs to be a perpetual model, these are what separates PP from the rest of the pack. Also relying on one PP is a bit inconvenient because it needs to be serviced every five years and you will not see it for 6 months, so you do need a back up watch. Rolex are solid workhorses that you can bash about whereas a PP needs really to be in a more sedate environment such as an office etc.

I am on the look out for a 5205 but no way am I giving up a Rolex for it. If you settle for a date / hour / min / second PP, you are really not getting the benefit of what PP is about.”

5205 is just an annual cal, plus he won't be able to sell 2 Rolexes for one unless it is on life support, lol.

[Mick P]

Thanks for the replies so far. Just to clarify my position, I have 5 Rolex which is more than I need. I am quite happy with 3 watches. I already have a Rolex 1655 and an additional 2 Pateks would suit me well as I was perfectly content when I just had 3 watches.

I am happy with either a perpetual or annual calendar. The model I fancies the most is a PP 5205 and also a PP 5146. I am lucky in that I have a friend who in turn is friends with Peter Mandelson who wears a PP5146 so I could ask him to ask Mandelson for an opinion.

Therefore the end target is to retain the Rolex 1655 which I find perfect and buy the two PP's mentioned above. I can sell off the 4 remaining Rolex when it suits me.

That will keep me perfectly happy.

I was just hoping that a few fellow members owned a PP and could give an opinion.

[JP Chestnut]

Personally, I wouldn't assume Patek are better quality. Better finished, yes, but the movements seem more fragile...and robustness , durability when worn, is surely a key part of all-round quality. I bought a new 5711 and was struck by the feeling of mild fragility.It may be unfair, but I always felt it was not a strong watch. And I found the bracelet catch is just awkward to the point of being unpleasant.

Don't forget the lack of micro adjust either. Not a practical watch for me.

[Mick P]

Don't forget the lack of micro adjust either. Not a practical watch for me.

Ahh - This is news to me, can you elaborate please.

[kultschar]

Ahh - This is news to me, can you elaborate please.

On the metal bracelets. Guess that wont apply to your choice of PPs Mick

[JP Chestnut]

Ahh - This is news to me, can you elaborate please.

The bracelet models can only be adjusted by adding and removing links. I've had a few watches like that and... never again. It's so impractical. Doubly so with a highly finished bracelet like the 5711.

Since you're after a dress model, it's no issue for you. On the other hand, I'd be worried about out-of-box visual and movement flaws that require immediate shipment to the factory. Sometimes I think I'd like a PP, but I think I value practicality too much. Long waits, shoddy QC, high prices, and fairly frequent services are a tough pill to swallow.

You should get what you want, obviously, but two complicated PPs and a vintage Rolex doesn't sound like a collection that I would enjoy owning in real life. Posting pictures online? Sure. Actual day to day use? Probably not.

[Mick P]

It will be a leather strap, I want it to be way under the radar.

[-Ally-]

The 5146 is the only Patek I have any desire for. Not really for someone my age though and as such it would get limited wear. For an old dodger like you Mick, I think it’d be sweet.

[chris56]

Owning both Rolex and PP including the 5146 perhaps I might be able to help.
I guess the movements might be more delicate but I do not baby my PPs and have not noticed any issues.
Service wise I cannot comment as all my PPs are still relatively young. I guess the servicing will take longer than Rolex but servicing for all the haute horologerie manufacturers takes a similar time.
The 5146 is a classic PP - this is mine. It is an annual calendar only needing correction for February.

It does not attract much attention unlike Rolex and is very easy to wear. It has lume which quite a few PP complicated watches do not, making night time use easier (The 5205 does not have lume). Accuracy is very good and the watch is light on the wrist, the profile means that is does not attract dings. The leather straps are available in many colours and lengths - I changed mine at the PP boutique from the brown strap to a grey strap to tone with the dial. Given care the leather straps will last 2 or 3 years maybe more. The watch is not suitable for swimming which helps strap longevity. The snap shut deployant clasp is ok but other manufacturers do it better - same analogy as the bracelet clasp on the Nautilus which is ok but fiddly.
Some posters have commented that PP does not have hacking seconds - this is true but it is not an issue as slight backward pressure on the crown stops the second hand which you then release for perfect synchronisation with your time source. Date changes do not flick over immediately like Rolex. This is a function of the complicated mechanisms - you see the same on other complicated mechanisms. Time/date changes etc need to be carried out using the pushers at safe times when the mechanism is not in the process of changing.

[ajw232]

I think you’re overthinking the pros and cons. They’re definitely not as robust as a Rolex but for day to day wear I wouldn’t say that’s something to be too concerned about. I wouldn’t wear one rock climbing but I am quite happy to wear mine most days.
You should easily be able to try the models you’re interested in on at a dealer, try them out and see how they feel.
5205 is thicker and will sit higher on the wrist which would make it more prone to knocks etc.

[Volvomanuk]

Owning 3 Pateks the 5711 5712 & the latest the 5960R the first two get bashed but do really well while caravanning, swimming in the sea off the Med, but not Blackpool etc, the 5960 is just being worn occasionally at the moment and has already picked up swirls.

On the whole they are quite tough watches, servicing and repairs can be cheaper than Rolex, at least Patek don’t want to take the bloody watch apart and service it for the slightest thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Omegamanic]

Those ssaying they are not as robust a a Rolex, what are you basing this on? The size and weight of the watch, or some tangible design feature.

[ajw232]

My Patek is definitely more delicate and prone to showing scratches and knocks than any of my Rolex.

[JP Chestnut]

Those ssaying they are not as robust a a Rolex, what are you basing this on? The size and weight of the watch, or some tangible design feature.

A pretty large sample of owners that I've known for a long time. Three years between movement service seems fairly common. I wouldn't call that robust. Gaskets leaking after 1.5 years on their "sports" watches. Just small things that compromise day to day wear.

[erics]

Nautiluses do pick up marks VERY easily.

Particulary on the bezel which is not nice.

Precious metal versions even more so...

5146 is a good call.

5164's are a bit more exciting than 5167's.

[Raffe]

Nautiluses do pick up marks VERY easily.

Particulary on the bezel which is not nice.

Precious metal versions even more so...

5146 is a good call.

5164's are a bit more exciting than 5167's.

Surely "Nautili"?

[kaiserphoenix]

i feel Patek are the ultimate “wearable” luxury watch. By this i mean Patek is almost like a higher end rolex. If you take entry level watches like the aquanaut or nautilus these watches are robust and even more waterproof than a Rolex GMT!! People think due to the price they are fragile but don’t be fooled, the 324 Patek calibre is robust as hell. They don’t need that regular servicing due to silicone. I have owned in my life 5711 5167 5990 5250 etx every one of them was accurate and reliable. 2nd hand market values will
ofcourse depends on the model so dot just assume because it’s patek it will hold or increase.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kaiserphoenix]

Personally, I wouldn't assume Patek are better quality. Better finished, yes, but the movements seem more fragile...and robustness , durability when worn, is surely a key part of all-round quality. I bought a new 5711 and was struck by the feeling of mild fragility.It may be unfair, but I always felt it was not a strong watch. And I found the bracelet catch is just awkward to the point of being unpleasant. Glad to return to chavy Rolex.
Give it a try and see! You can only learn through your own experience, and you shouldn't lose money.
I'l be interested to see what you conclude. And if I seem 'hard' on Patek, I do hold them in high esteem. I just no longer want to own one.

Nah the 324 cal is robust as any. I took mine cycling hiking and running. Hasn’t missed a beat and this is my 4th 324 based watch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[td1596]

can't comment on experience as I don't own any PP, but it's basic psychology that you will be subconsciously more protective of a 20K watch than a 5k watch, hence perceiving it as less robust.

[PJ S]

i feel Patek are the ultimate “wearable” luxury watch. By this i mean Patek is almost like a higher end rolex. If you take entry level watches like the aquanaut or nautilus these watches are robust and even more waterproof than a Rolex GMT!! People think due to the price they are fragile but don’t be fooled, the 324 Patek calibre is robust as hell. They don’t need that regular servicing due to ceramics and silicone. I have owned in my life 5711 5167 5990 5250 etx every one of them was accurate and reliable. 2nd hand market values will of course depends on the model so dot just assume because it’s patek it will hold or increase.

No ceramics in any movement, that I’m aware of – for obvious reasons.

[kaiserphoenix]

No ceramics in any movement, that I’m aware of – for obvious reasons.

Yes sorry Silicone, not ceramic.

[Omegamanic]

My Patek is definitely more delicate and prone to showing scratches and knocks than any of my Rolex.

Nautiluses do pick up marks VERY easily.

Particulary on the bezel which is not nice.

Precious metal versions even more so...

5146 is a good call.

5164's are a bit more exciting than 5167's.

My 5711 shows a lot less wear than my old GMTIIc or polished Daytona bracelet. As far knocks unless your wearing I've hardened steel our similar then the watch is going to show them.

I can't see the Patek suffering more with the bezel than my polished DJ bezel either.

I'm just going to continue to wear it and take advantage of the free service offered by the boutique.

[kultschar]

I would also agree with the Daytona 116520 being a bigger scratch magnet

[jukeboxs]

I'd class Patek as being less "able to take a knock" than a Rolex sports model (just my opinion as a 5711 and multiple Rolex Sports owner). Also, you may need to sell more than 4 Rolex (or have additional cash) to buy 2 PPs - depends on the models.

[Mick P]

Many thanks for the comment. There is nothing like good honest comments based on experience. I have to confess, I am now feeling a bit more cautious about diving in.

[ajw232]

I wouldn’t be worried. Whatever watch you buy will pick up scratches from any brand, they can be polished. The first ones are painful but after that you can relax and enjoy the watch.
Rather than leap in and buy two just buy the one and see how you get on with it before deciding if you still want the other one.

[HEKTOR]

Many thanks for the comment. There is nothing like good honest comments based on experience. I have to confess, I am now feeling a bit more cautious about diving in.

I wouldn't be apprehensive. If I could get my hands on the aquanaut & nautilus new at retail price right now I would take both without any hesitation.

[Omegamanic]

I'd class Patek as being less "able to take a knock" than a Rolex sports model (just my opinion as a 5711 and multiple Rolex Sports owner). Also, you may need to sell more than 4 Rolex (or have additional cash) to buy 2 PPs - depends on the models.

Possibly - some people don't give a toss about their Seiko/Casio, so wear them for anything - I generally feel the same way about my G-shocks, quartz SMP and even my white gold Daytona, as they get worn for everything. I guess I am a lot more careful when wearing my Patek, or strangely enough my SMP 2531 - so they don't get the same knocks. But... I have seen images of what appear to be well worn Pateks and they look like they have taken a knock or two.

[kultschar]

Think there was a real battered 5711 over on the Rolex forums a while back

I dont think the issue is how robust it is, more the case that such a highly finished watch looks like crap after a beating compared to your average Sporty Rolex (and the fact its £££££ so naturally its best to take more care unless your not fussed!!!!)

I wear my Aqua daily and my Nautilus for best. However if im going for a wander up the mountains I will bang my Omega on simply to keep the PP scratch free, though im sure it would survive :)

[PJ S]

^
http://forums.timezone.com/index.php...=1962937&rid=0
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=436514

This is probably the one you’re referring to, which I’ve extracted from the black hole that is Botophucket…