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Thread: 2021 America's Cup

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    You are of course correct, as demonstrated by the score.
    However those hull shapes are usually purposefully designed for the conditions they are likely to meet. Light wind performers often struggle under heavier conditions, and vice versa.
    I imagine that simulators have highlighted this issue a long time ago; the category is brand new so everyone is learning but even the first boat would have picked up on this.
    In stronger winds Rita performed better than LR. Hence my question about expected wind strength at this time of the year.
    The question also works for LR: what are the expected conditions for the AC?
    By my reading of this link the wind conditions in February / March are variable but with an equal chance of being above or below 12 knots.

  2. #252
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    The view is hull shape is not that significant given they foil for the whole race. Aerodynamic drag is more important than hydrodynamic performance.

    Having spent a lot of time in NZ I’d say it’s variable but usually over the period of the final you’d expect a range. It’s been unusual to have been all light winds.

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    The view is hull shape is not that significant given they foil for the whole race. Aerodynamic drag is more important than hydrodynamic performance.

    Having spent a lot of time in NZ I’d say it’s variable but usually over the period of the final you’d expect a range. It’s been unusual to have been all light winds.
    I can only see one problem with "The view is hull shape is not that significant given they foil for the whole race." First they have to get on the foil, ie 'unstick' their hull. The lift from the foils is probably the greater factor, but may not the hull shape also have an effect? Not particularly relevant in the later races as they managed to stay on the foils, but earlier in the event they had some problems.

  4. #254
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    The difference is probably hidden under decks. But I agree that aerodynamics play a greater role than hydrodynamics.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    I can only see one problem with "The view is hull shape is not that significant given they foil for the whole race." First they have to get on the foil, ie 'unstick' their hull. The lift from the foils is probably the greater factor, but may not the hull shape also have an effect? Not particularly relevant in the later races as they managed to stay on the foils, but earlier in the event they had some problems.
    I’m pretty sure every competitor had 100% flight time in every race. Apart from GBR in that pre start, and the abandoned race.

    If it’s marginal they tow up pre start.

    If they fall off the foils it’s race over unless both fall off then it’s a lottery. You are not going to optimise for those freak moments.

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I’m pretty sure every competitor had 100% flight time in every race. Apart from GBR in that pre start, and the abandoned race.

    If it’s marginal they tow up pre start.

    If they fall off the foils it’s race over unless both fall off then it’s a lottery. You are not going to optimise for those freak moments.

    How about the pre-Christmas races. If those conditions, less frequent or otherwise, can happen once then might not they happen again? Getting off of the surface is surely part of the package even if it is not a major parameter for optimisation. As I recall, it was a race winning issue in the very lightest of winds.

    If they go for the AC75 in the next series it will be interesting to see what they do with the lower wind limit...if anything.

  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    How about the pre-Christmas races. If those conditions, less frequent or otherwise, can happen once then might not they happen again? Getting off of the surface is surely part of the package even if it is not a major parameter for optimisation. As I recall, it was a race winning issue in the very lightest of winds.

    If they go for the AC75 in the next series it will be interesting to see what they do with the lower wind limit...if anything.
    AC75 is all about foiling, they just look stupid in displacement mode ... they will manage the class such that displacement sailing isn’t part of the game.

    ITA is said to have superior rig control specificity the ability to adjust relative camber between mainsail skins.

    I think when it was about power generation they had an advantage. When the breeze was up and it’s more about drag reduction GBR we equal or better.

    Basically in the final conditions the fastest boat won.

  8. #258
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    Auckland to go into seven-day Covid lockdown:

    New Zealand’s prime minister, Jacinda Ardern, said the country’s biggest city, Auckland, will go into a seven-day lockdown from early morning on Sunday after a new local case of the coronavirus of unknown origin emerged.

    It comes two weeks after Auckland’s nearly 2 million residents were plunged into a snap three-day lockdown when a family of three were diagnosed with the more transmissible UK variant of coronavirus....

  9. #259
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    First weekend postponed:

    In light of the latest Auckland COVID-19 Level 3 lockdown put in place by the Government from 6am this morning for the next 7 days, America’s Cup Event Ltd has postponed the first weekend of racing on Saturday 6th and Sunday 7th of March.

    The purpose of this early decision is to provide at least some certainty in planning for all event stakeholders with regard to next weekend initially.

    America’s Cup Event Ltd Chair, Tina Symmans said, “ACE has always said that it wishes to hold as much of the racing under Level 1 restrictions as possible. But to be prudent, ACE will apply for an exemption to race under Level 3 restrictions so as to keep as many options open as possible. However, racing will not occur before at least Wednesday 10th March.”

  10. #260
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    I wonder if they will put a limit on measurement?

  11. #261

  12. #262
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    My money is on a ETNZ whitewash. But I’m hoping to see a battle inc. some high wind action.

  13. #263
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    Game on , race 1 & 2 now on YouTube

    Steve
    Last edited by higham5; 10th March 2021 at 09:50.

  14. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    My money is on a ETNZ whitewash. But I’m hoping to see a battle inc. some high wind action.
    I'll take your money
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  15. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    I'll take your money
    Looks like we may have a race on but NZ still look stronger, they threw the start away and closed back to just a 7s gap.

    Probably fair to say NZ lack race practice and that showed on the second start.

    Given the professionalism of the crews seems an overtake will be a very rare thing after the first cross so not surprisingly starts will be everything.

    I just hope we get to see some 20knot winds and some unstable wind conditions to mix it up otherwise watching that races post start could be a bit tedious.

  16. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Looks like we may have a race on but NZ still look stronger, they threw the start away and closed back to just a 7s gap.

    Probably fair to say NZ lack race practice and that showed on the second start.

    Given the professionalism of the crews seems an overtake will be a very rare thing after the first cross so not surprisingly starts will be everything.

    I just hope we get to see some 20knot winds and some unstable wind conditions to mix it up otherwise watching that races post start could be a bit tedious.
    To be honest I do not disagree that NZ are odds on favourite.
    Yes they do lack race practice but the Italian made a mistake in the second race that allowed NZ to close down, but they too are new to this as they haven't been challenged much in the wind conditions that prevailed during their match against Rita. They could get away with doing their own thing irrespective of what their opponent did, and it's clear they can't now.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  17. #267
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    I’m just hoping we get some high winds so we can watch a real tear up ...

  18. #268
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    It shows how fickle the reporting is, in race 1 NZ were about 2 knts more on most legs. This was quickly attributed to the narrower foils and the lead weight where the foil joins the lifting spar by the commentators on youtube. By race 2 withLR in the lead, all of that was forgotten, now the boats were equal!

  19. #269
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    Doesn't appear to be much between the boats, and as has already been said if there are stable conditions it's all down to who wins the start unless there is a major mistake.

    Am I right in my understanding that three of the racecourses can't be used unless Aukland drops the COVID status, and the earliest that could happen would be Sunday?

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  20. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33mgb View Post
    Doesn't appear to be much between the boats, and as has already been said if there are stable conditions it's all down to who wins the start unless there is a major mistake.

    Am I right in my understanding that three of the racecourses can't be used unless Aukland drops the COVID status, and the earliest that could happen would be Sunday?

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    I believe some course options are out due to avoiding crowds.

    Boats seem pretty well matched although I think NZ is faster and the gap will grow as the wind gets up. Those small foils will be lower drag.

    Roll on the big breeze, any one seen a forecast?

  21. #271
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    I saw a review yesterday where it mentioned possibility of lighter winds for Friday.

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  22. #272
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by 33mgb View Post
    I saw a review yesterday where it mentioned possibility of lighter winds for Friday.

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    Yep...Windy, Windfinder and the Met Office concur, nothing much above the lower limit for days to come. Let's hope that they turn out to be wrong and it gets into double figures...

  23. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Yep...Windy, Windfinder and the Met Office concur, nothing much above the lower limit for days to come. Let's hope that they turn out to be wrong and it gets into double figures...
    Disappointing; I suspect that gives ITA a bit more of a chance.

  24. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Disappointing; I suspect that gives ITA a bit more of a chance.
    Just had a look at Windy app, and yes - forecast looks light for next three or four days. Means even more pressure in the start box to win the start - will be interesting to watch those first couple of minutes, but maybe not so interesting after that.

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  25. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I believe some course options are out due to avoiding crowds.

    Boats seem pretty well matched although I think NZ is faster and the gap will grow as the wind gets up. Those small foils will be lower drag.

    Roll on the big breeze, any one seen a forecast?
    AC36 Covid link:

    RACING UNDER LEVEL 2

    Racing under Level 2 will be restricted to only be sailed on either Race Course A or E.

    (Under COVID-19 Alert Level 1 all courses will become an option to race on for the Regatta Director again.)

  26. #276
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  27. #277
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    Never mind 6-9 knots...Auckland Harbour Bridge current conditions light winds 4 kph NE gusting (!) 9 kph.

    See also the Hauraki Gulf Recreational Forecast and / or the Waiheke Channel Boating Forecast. I think they correspond with courses A and E, respectively.

    Note OK, the Waiheke Channel is probably not the best as it is tucked up between two islands above the Tamaki Strait and course E where they will be racing today.
    Last edited by PickleB; 12th March 2021 at 06:20.

  28. #278
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    The wind is in and the race is on. Auckland is at Level 1 and spectator boats postpone the start...


    Update Two more races completed and I think it's looking good for the rest of the match.
    Last edited by PickleB; 12th March 2021 at 05:55.

  29. #279
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    Another tight day.

    In these lower wind speeds the racing isn’t that interesting after the start action.

  30. #280
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    Looks like much of the same tomorrow.

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  31. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33mgb View Post
    Looks like much of the same tomorrow.

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    COVID level 1 so they could be on the course with a more variable wind which should improve the racing. Otherwise it’s watch the start then watch the rest in fast forward.

  32. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    COVID level 1 so they could be on the course with a more variable wind which should improve the racing. Otherwise it’s watch the start then watch the rest in fast forward.
    Yes, it definitely needs a course with more variation to hopefully mix up the race itself. We did at least see a couple of mistakes today, and saw how costly they can be with the time lost by LR on that gybe in race 4, even if it didn't ultimately have any bearing on the result.

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  33. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33mgb View Post
    ... time lost by LR on that gybe in race 4, even if it didn't ultimately have any bearing on the result.
    That gybe was very iffy ... they in fact saved it quite well. At one point I thought they would need another gybe.

    At 40 knots you can go a long way in a few seconds... the standard of the crews is very high; I think we could see more errors in high winds but in 10 knots they have these beasts under control.

  34. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33mgb View Post
    Looks like much of the same tomorrow.

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    No large scale change likely until Wednesday at least (link...NB AEST is 3h from NZDT). Maybe the sea breezes will play a role in amongst the islands?

  35. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    That gybe was very iffy ...
    I watched the press conference afterwards and Bruni stated all that happened was he missed hitting the button to lower the foil!



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  36. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    No large scale change likely until Wednesday at least (link...NB AEST is 3h from NZDT). Maybe the sea breezes will play a role in amongst the islands?
    Hope they are on one of the other courses, other than A or E (I think course C seems to be the favourite for decent shifts).

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  37. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33mgb View Post
    I watched the press conference afterwards and Bruni stated all that happened was he missed hitting the button to lower the foil!



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    Yeah, saw that. I wondered if that was BS or not ... I thought one of the grinders would have that control.

  38. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33mgb View Post
    Hope they are on one of the other courses, other than A or E (I think course C seems to be the favourite for decent shifts).

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    No such luck. It's course A with not a lost of wind forecast...link.

  39. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    No such luck. It's course A with not a lost of wind forecast...link.
    Yeah, just seen that - 7 to 11knots. All down to the starts again I guess.

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  40. #290
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    Totally even again. Light wind conditions. Small mistakes. No real racing. All decided at the start. 3:3 after day three... I believe in stronger winds kiwis will be stronger.


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  41. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33mgb View Post
    Yeah, just seen that - 7 to 11knots. All down to the starts again I guess.

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    What a quote! Spot on!

  42. #292
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    It's a shame really. The Americas Cup could be all over before the stronger winds arrive and possibly make it more interesting. At the moment it's 2 minutes of action followed by 25mins of waiting for a mistake. Fantastic pieces of kit, but not that exciting in terms of racing.

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  43. #293
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    NZ look faster but ITA have a high mode that gives tactical options.

    All about the start in these winds. In high winds I think NZ would smoke them ...

    Sadly it’s dull racing after the first minute.

  44. #294
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    Not a lot to see this morning racing postponed :(

  45. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by higham5 View Post
    Not a lot to see this morning racing postponed :(
    Seems some stronger breeze is forecast. We may just get to see these boats at full stretch...

  46. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Seems some stronger breeze is forecast. We may just get to see these boats at full stretch...
    I wish it wasn't so, but the forecast isn't great for the days to come and so I don't expect them to move from course A. Even then there may be one or more blank days with no racing. If we get to Thursday the winds may reach double figures...before dying away once more.

  47. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    I wish it wasn't so, but the forecast isn't great for the days to come and so I don't expect them to move from course A. Even then there may be one or more blank days with no racing. If we get to Thursday the winds may reach double figures...before dying away once more.
    Commentary team were bigging up the forecast at the end of the broadcast.

    That link looks dire.

  48. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Commentary team were bigging up the forecast at the end of the broadcast.

    That link looks dire.
    That forecast has been updated and while it's still not showing a lot of wind (and Tuesday being very light) it may get into double figures on some of the days.

  49. #299
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    Happy to have been wrong in that they have moved to course E today (or tomorrow as I'm posting this in the UK).

    Wind forecast is 9-13 kn, N to NE...Twitter link.

  50. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Happy to have been wrong in that they have moved to course E today (or tomorrow as I'm posting this in the UK).

    Wind forecast is 9-13 kn, N to NE...Twitter link.

    Hopefully E will mix it up a bit.

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