Reply With QuoteBen is normally great at the start . Ho him. We need a win to keep it interesting. ..
That's because the re isn't one (link):Originally Posted by ASW1
Teams have gone in two different directions with regards to their boom setup. Both Emirates Team New Zealand and Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli have, essentially, gone for a setup which has no boom, controlling the shape of the sail with a series of hydraulic rams and complex control systems hidden between the two skins.
See also: AC75 - there's more to the rig than meets the eye.
Last edited by PickleB; 14th February 2021 at 15:36.
Ben is normally great at the start . Ho him. We need a win to keep it interesting. ..
Yes the schedule can change but all racing has to be completed by 24th I think so it may be the case that we run out of opportunities to complete the 13 races meaning a win may be possible with less than 7. Putting GBR into an even tighter fix.
Watched the starts back a few times and can’t fathom their strategy.
I don’t think I have seen any AC75 starts won with a hook tactic.
Can I ask why you specify the 24th, please?
In version 8 of the Protcol (link) it says;
3. CHALLENGER SELECTION SERIES.
3.1. In January / February 2021, COR shall organise and conduct a Challenger Selection Series for all Challengers...
and:
4. THE MATCH.
4.1. The Match shall be held in the coastal waters of New Zealand in March 2021,...
Does that not give them until the end of the month for the Prada Cup? And, since the Protocol is subject to amendment (presumably by agreement), cannot it be varied to allow for the present circumstances?
I've noticed that the first link in my previous post was to the Match Conditions rather than those for the Prada Cup, but the latter does contain a similar provision.
A friend said who I would expect to be correctly informed.
There will have to be a fixed Notice of Race with an end date as there will be all sorts of practicalities involved plus development schedules.
Last edited by Montello; 14th February 2021 at 20:57.
As in COR #19 (link):
NOTICE OF RACE AND CONDITIONS
36TH AMERICA’S CUP CHALLENGER SELECTION SERIES
Auckland, New Zealand
...?
That includes this provision:
5. FORMAT AND SCHEDULE
5.1 The format and schedule for the Prada Cup are shown in Attachment 1 (the “Prada Cup Format and Schedule”). Without prejudice to Article 3.3 of the Protocol the Attachment 1
may from time to time be revised or modified by COR/D in consultation with the Regatta Director.
Agreed, Wed Feb 24 is the last date mentioned in the Schedule as laid out in the Attachment, but the Protocol limits them to Feb 28 at the moment, so there is a little leeway there. Agreed, any move into March will make an impact on the local organisation but as the infrastructure has been in place since the Christmas Races I suspect the prevailing factor will be the time interval between the last Prada Cup race and the first of the Match races, ie the time the ultimate challenger has to prepare. More negotiations to be had, perhaps? Let's hope that it is not necessary.
Well there we go, 24th. Can’t believe Prada will allow any extension.
AC link:
From an event perspective; there are a number of plans for different scenarios. With regard to the current situation and rescheduling of on water racing and on shore event organisation, the event organisers are updating plans with respect to maintaining a fluid racing calendar in consultation with the Government and relevant authorities.
Any delays can only help GBR.
Challenger finalists to train during Auckland lockdown:
INEOS Team UK and Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli will be able to train on the water while Auckland remains in limited lockdown because of a community COVID outbreak.
It was still unclear Tuesday when racing will resume as it can’t do so until the lockdown is lifted or reduced.
Auckland was placed in a Level 3 lockdown on Saturday after three cases of the UK variant were found in the community. No new cases have since been reported and the lockdown could be lifted at midnight Wednesday.
Sorry. Just found this in the net....
https://youtube.com/watch?v=KJgdP0zpjd4&feature=share
Forza Italia!
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Link:
This morning the Challenger of Record (COR36) has made their position very clear in stating their desire to race from tomorrow despite COVID Alert level 3, to complete the PRADA Cup final by the 24th February in accordance with the existing Prada Cup conditions.
They have also stated that if the racing program cannot be completed by Wednesday (24th) they intend to declare the leading point scorer the winner of the Prada Cup and Challenger for the America’s Cup Match. Under the current points situation, that would be Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli team.
This position was foreseen...link:
...As things stand, should lockdown prevent racing from taking place over the coming weekend and early next week, it seems entirely possible that the Prada Cup could remain uncompleted. Inserting additional race days into the schedule would require sign off from both the Defender, and the Challenger of Record Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli, who currently happen to be 4-0 up in the series.
It is undoubtedly in the interest of all teams, including Luna Rossa, to finish the series on the racecourse. The Italian team has been vocal about why they believe time on the water in race mode is irreplaceable.
However, if lockdown requires an extension to the schedule, there does seem to be scope for Luna Rossa to block further racing taking place over and above that which has been scheduled. Emirates Team New Zealand could potentially prevent further dates being added to the Prada Cup racing schedule too, but have little to gain from doing so.
We should soon know whether lockdown in New Zealand will continue beyond the initial three days. If it does not, racing will likely continue. If lockdown continues, however, things could get very messy indeed...
Indeed, it was predicted by Montello, above.
Last edited by PickleB; 17th February 2021 at 06:55.
Auckland will move to alert level 2 at midnight...and that would seem to indicate the end of the Prada Cup.
From a link above:
The position of ACE is based on one of two options based on the Government’s review of alert levels at 4:30 this afternoon:
- If the alert levels drop to level 1 in time, then racing will resume this weekend.
- If the alert level remains at 3 or 2, which obviously entails restrictions in gatherings and difficulties with events, racing and event activations would need to be rescheduled to recommence the PRADA Cup Final on Friday 26 February. To respect the original timeframe scheduled between the Prada Cup Final and the America’s Cup Match, Race 1 of the Match would subsequently begin a week later on Saturday 13 March with the intention of racing still being completed by 21 March.
Since LR will not countenance any rescheduling...game over, it seems.
Last edited by PickleB; 17th February 2021 at 07:08.
INEOS Team UK Statement:
A brief statement from INEOS Team UK about the resumption of racing, who we captured out training today. They’re in clear agreement with the event authority and in disagreement with the Challenger of Record.
Following the statement from the America’s Cup Event Ltd (ACE) today:
INEOS TEAM UK respect the decision communicated by ACE to delay the PRADA Cup racing due to the current COVID-19 alert level in Auckland.
The result of the PRADA Cup final should be won and decided on the water in the agreed format of first to win 7 races.
INEOS TEAM UK fully respect the government’s decision to curtail racing until it is safe to do so and would support a delay in the competition if that is required.
The solution put forward by ACE is sensible in ensuring both the safety of all in New Zealand, and the integrity of the sporting competition.
INEOS TEAM UK will continue with our race preparations and be ready to race when it is safe to do so.
The Prada Challenge have a long history of being willing to bend the rules to their advantage without seemingly any care for sportsmanship ... pretty sad way to win IMHO.
The Prada challenge has a very short history... And sportsmanship has never been a virtue in AC history in general. It comes with the territory.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Well they were racing in 2002 when I was in NZ and I'm not sure if that was their first challenge so almost 20 years ...
That was their first, with virtually a Kiwi crew. They blew the competition out of the water, winning the LV 5-1 and the AC 5-0.
In total they have what? 5 challenges? For the AC that’s a very short history, and sportsmanship had long deserted the AC by then
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
In the current context I don't describe 20 years as "a very short history" ... but whatever ...
The AC is the oldest competition in the world. Prada has made 5 challenges in the last 18 years. And it's interesting that you criticise their lack of sportsmanship before they say anything regarding the continuation of the current competition. I am sure that the fact that Rita suffered a humiliating 4-0 defeat in the first 4 regattas has nothing to do with your assessment of their sportsmanship. In your world I am sure that SBA behaved as an exemplary sportsman when he whined against NZ after the first dismal performances in the first regattas.
As you say, "whatever".
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
LR's position:
...COR 36 has also offered its full support to ACE and to the local authorities to immediately implement the Level 3 Alert management plan provided for by the AC36 Event COVID-19 Management On Land and On Water Plans. These plans provide that, in a level 3 COVID-19 alert, the AC36 Village shall be closed and the regattas shall resume “behind closed doors”, without any public, as it already happens for many international sporting events (Formula 1, Australian Open etc.).
This on water management plan has already been tested and can therefore be immediately activated with the approval of the Authorities. Since teams are authorised to sail and practice under COVID-19 level 3 alert, it is hard to understand why racing “behind closed doors” could not be allowed applying the same protocols.
In this context, and in compliance with the regulations, there is no reason to further delay the carrying on of the regattas as scheduled, giving both teams the opportunity to complete the number of races required by the series within the terms and deadlines imposed by the racing calendar. It should be reminded that otherwise Rule A2.3(b) of Appendix A to the World Sailing Racing Rules of Sailing America’s Cup edition Version 3.03 for the 36th America’s Cup presented by PRADA - which provide that “….the winner is the team with the highest score at the date of the final scheduled date” - would apply.
That is 'no rescheduling allowed', 'racing behind closed doors or we take the Prada Cup directly'. I'm not sure that the NZ Government and local authorities, having supported the staging of the AC, will be too impressed, especially given the position of the event organiser (link):
In these uncertain times, as the permitted Event Organiser responsible for the delivery of the 36th America’s Cup presented by Prada in Auckland under the Host Venue Agreement with NZ Government and Auckland Council, America’s Cup Event Limited remains committed to maintaining as many aspects as possible of the Event as originally planned.This includes the ambition to maximise the possibility of safe public engagement at the event for Aucklanders and kiwis from around the country, as well as the commercial benefits to local businesses, event sponsors and partners which includes the New Zealand Government and Auckland City. We are also mindful of the global broadcasting rights holders that are taking the stunning images of our country with thousands of people enjoying the event and broadcasting them into living rooms and devices around the world.
America’s Cup Event Chair Tina Symmans said, “As event organisers, we have spent a considerable amount of time since Sunday evening looking at all possible scenarios. Like the majority of events around the country this weekend, the ramifications of running the remainder of the event need to be considered in an environment which is highly uncertain due to the latest COVID-19 concerns.”
ACE has consulted with the America’s Cup Minister Stuart Nash and senior Council officials and one consideration has been to postpone the current schedule of racing and events in the best interests of the public and all stakeholders given the current COVID-19 environment.
The position of ACE is based on one of two options based on the Government’s review of alert levels at 4:30 this afternoon:
- If the alert levels drop to level 1 in time, then racing will resume this weekend.
- If the alert level remains at 3 or 2, which obviously entails restrictions in gatherings and difficulties with events, racing and event activations would need to be rescheduled to recommence the PRADA Cup Final on Friday 26 February. To respect the original timeframe scheduled between the Prada Cup Final and the America’s Cup Match, Race 1 of the Match would subsequently begin a week later on Saturday 13 March with the intention of racing still being completed by 21 March.
It's now past midnight in NZ and nothing more has been posted on www.americascup.com to resolve the issue either way. I'd imagine that negotiations are continuing...let's hope for a positive outcome.
Let’s hope we get a sporting outcome not a litigious one.
REGATTA DIRECTOR NOTICE #014
Issued 17 February 2021
RE: Racing on 18th February
There will be no racing on Thursday, 18th February due to insufficient on water event support.
Iain Murray
Regatta Director
Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli’s position:
The latest from Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli, clearly outlining their position at odds with the America’s Cup Event and INEOS Team UK. Effectively, if they can train, they can race. They expect the Final to be completed by February 24.
Auckland (NZ), February 17, 2021 – The Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli team is surprised by the statements published by America’s Cup Event (ACE) and by INEOS Team UK.
From day one of the teams’ activities in New Zealand, protocols have been put in place, together with ACE and all government bodies, to allow teams and organizers alike to operate in the different COVID-19 alert levels, enabling them to prepare and race behind closed doors, if need be, as happens in the Formula1, Australian Open and other events; the priority in these contexts is clearly the health of the people involved.
The Challenger of Record has confirmed that it is possible to race in total safety and has also offered full support to ACE and local Authorities for the application of the protocol indicated by the AC36 Event COVID-19 Management On Land and On Water Plans for the Covid-19 alert. There is no reason why teams that are allowed to train during this alert level should not be allowed to race, albeit behind closed doors, according to the same protocol.
The weather conditions for the next few days are ideal to carry out top level racing.
Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli is ready to race against INEOS Team UK on Friday February 19th, in compliance to the program of the Prada Cup Finals that which must end no later than February 24th. Even more so, now that the government has taken the decision to go down from Level 3 to Alert Level 2, allowing the regattas to take place in full respect of everyone’s safety.
Just watching press conference. The Italians are not happy. When questioned about their lack of flexibility/sportsmanship they say the rules are the rules, you can't just change them.... If it was an earthquake then maybe but as is the rules are the rules and why would they be flexible.
The joys of trying to keep your sponsors happy.
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Clearly the organisers are also not happy (link):
...“Since Sunday, we have worked really hard on behalf of everyone in Auckland and all kiwis to give COR the opportunity to demonstrate some honour and respect for this country and delay the Prada Cup until we have a greater chance of everyone being able to enjoy and benefit from being back into Level 1.” explained Symmans.
“Clearly they have forgotten the words of their leader Patricio Bertelli at the opening press conference who spoke about how privileged everyone is to be in Auckland without significant Covid restrictions and that therefore everyone has a commitment and responsibility to deliver great sportsmanship and the Prada Cup to be a major sporting event.”
“This plea has fallen on deaf ears and it’s clear that their focus is solely on Luna Rossa taking the Prada Cup rather than the greater good of the country who have worked so hard in order to be in a position to stage this event.” Symmans concluded...
All the various releases are getting ugly, Covid has changed everything and the AC isn’t immune.
I don’t think the Prada stance is doing them any favours.
The AC has a long history of inflexibility when it came down to the most minute details. For the bigger stuff it ended in court.
In this case the organisation wants its return on investment, that they’re trying to masquerade as sportsmanship.
The crews are ready to race, and race they should. If there are no spectators this time, either Rita will take a few wins and there will be further races and possibly spectators by then, or LR will reach 7 wins and the outcome will be identical to the one we have by not racing, except that sportsmanship will have been upheld.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Seems racing will resume on Saturday.
I think the Italian challenge has done themselves no favours with their stance and psychologically this tit-for-tat episode will have handed some momentum to GBR. Lets hope that can be converted to race wins.
It looks like it...link. See that link for the statements of the organisers and Ineos plus this:
The Challenger of Record confirmed to Sail-World that the restriction on course usage would not be carried over into the America's Cup, negating the Arbitration Panel ruling earlier that only courses available to the Challengers for the Prada Cup could be used for the America's Cup racing. In other words, the Regatta Director will have complete freedom of choice of courses to be used.
It seems some rules are flexible.
Last edited by PickleB; 18th February 2021 at 14:17. Reason: add hyperlinks to statements
I found this video interesting: www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj-LO__ufWE.
Will the weather play ball? Iain Murray says “we will know more by 3pm”...ie 1 hour before the start time.
He’s a good RS800 sailor from HISC who done a series of good analysis videos. Quite impressive effort he’s made.
Congratulations to team UK back in the game. Great start in race number 6. That was close during 5.the leg when Luna Rossa nearly catched up all the gap.
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Whitewash averted...what next?
Fingers still crossed...
Game on , good to see the aggressive starts
Well that’s a start to a comeback. Roll on tomorrow.
Good racing today, shame about the penalty in the first race. Prada kept it close in the second race aswell. I hope INEOS can build on it in the morning.
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I am sorry team GBR. Thank you for the great races. Would have been probably totally different with strong winds. ITA definitely more efficient in low wind conditions. Bravi. And as Francesco says: “forza Palermo!”
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Sorry for Ineos, but the LR Prada Pirrelli 'Panerai' team were the deserved winners.
Next step to oust ENTZ. Really looking forward to it.
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Very slick sailing. 7 to 1, a comprehensive victory. Forza LR!
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
LR were a very clear winner and are to be congratulated on their performance.
I don't think that Rita herself was up to the challenge although I'm sure that the team were. The Cup Match is another best of thirteen and let's hope that it is more of a contest. Then I expect we'll see who is the next Challenger of Record quite quickly after its completion.
Last edited by PickleB; 21st February 2021 at 15:09.
“I hope we stay in the AC75”:
...Although disappointed to have been knocked out of the running, Sir Ben Ainslie’s eye lit up when asked about the AC75.
“I hope we stay in the AC75 for the next Cup. Quite frankly it doesn’t matter where in the world the event is sailed, as long as we stay with these boats, and see how far they can go,” said Ainslie. His words also pointed that INEOS Team UK will be back for the 37th event.
In a live streamed interview that Live Sail Die had with Luna Rossa team boss Max Sirena, the passionate Italian stated that sailing an AC75 was “like having sex with a beautiful woman.” Something tells us in that statement that he is a bit of a fan boy when it comes to the AC75!
Due to COVID-19, we missed out on a number of World Series events which would have pushed the development of the class even further, so as it stands, we really haven’t seen the real potential of this radical design.
Staying in the AC75 is a no-brainer. We know that Emirates Team New Zealand will keep the class alive if they win, and knowing that Luna Rossa love the design, and now the verbal backing of Sir Ben, you’d have to be pretty confident that the class will remain for the next cycle, which we hear, could be as soon as just two years away.
Yes, congratulations to Luna Rossa. They didn't really put a foot wrong - once they were in front there just wasn't any opportunity for INEOS to get close. Can't wait for main event to see how they match up with ETNZ.
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Agree with the above. LR just seemed to have more out and out boat speed. Having said that their tacking and gybing “ on stilts” whilst maintaining the foiling was a joy to behold. Today in race 7 when both boats went round the mark together, it was something.
One of the camera crew in the pursuit boats is the son of my MIL neighbour. He is a professional drone pilot , but they wanted more water based shots this time, and you can see why.
Steve
GBR found lacking in the light stuff. Shame we didn’t get and 20knot tear ups as I suspect they may have had a fighting chance in higher winds.
ITA sailed a near perfect series and will be credible competition for NZL. Hopefully the match is more entertaining.
What is surprising is how poor Rita was in lighter winds compared to LR.
Is it because wind force was unusually weak for this time of year?
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I really don't know enough to offer anything solid, but my impression is that the rig design wasn't as good the Italians'. That led to problems getting up enough speed to foil in lighter wind and Rita not pointing as high as LR. Quite what effect the unusual hull shape had is way beyond my competence. Then you get on to foil design.
All things being relative, Rita wasn't really 'poor'...just not good enough given what the competition came up with.
You are of course correct, as demonstrated by the score.
However those hull shapes are usually purposefully designed for the conditions they are likely to meet. Light wind performers often struggle under heavier conditions, and vice versa.
I imagine that simulators have highlighted this issue a long time ago; the category is brand new so everyone is learning but even the first boat would have picked up on this.
In stronger winds Rita performed better than LR. Hence my question about expected wind strength at this time of the year.
The question also works for LR: what are the expected conditions for the AC?
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
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