closing tag is in template navbar
timefactors watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 200 of 345

Thread: 2021 America's Cup

  1. #151
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    It seemed to me that LR started steering a bit to port to make the cross closer than it could have been, is that what you mean? I guess the judges spotted he came off the optimum heading to try & draw the penalty.

    Ineos were peaking at nearly 60mph which is pretty incredible. As someone pointed out the tiddly little chase boats need 1350hp to keep up.
    A few links with info about racing manoeuvring etc:



    LRPP on starboard tack had right of way over ITUK on port. Listening to the onboard comms (You Be the Judge on YouTube) Jimmy Spithill first called that Ineos was "clear ahead" before turning to port (as he was allowed) so as to promote a close encounter so that ITUK would have to alter course and lose their advantage in order to avoid LRTT. That didn’t happen, hence the protest. I can only think that the umpires decided that he left the dial down too late for ITUK to be able to alter course without worsening the close quarters situation.

    Looking at the replay:



    …he started the move 10s and steadied only 5s before the cross. That sort of interval is probably common in dinghy sailing (others will know more about that than me) but the AC75 is not that agile at 40 knots downwind. That's my supposition...and I may be wrong.


    Edit The dynamics were a little different in 2007...www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcgy_tFro7s.
    Last edited by PickleB; 24th January 2021 at 16:47.

  2. #152
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Chelmsford
    Posts
    406
    That was an exciting race for sure


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #153
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,990
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    A few links with info about racing manoeuvring etc:



    LRPP on starboard tack had right of way over ITUK on port. Listening to the onboard comms (You Be the Judge on YouTube) Jimmy Spithill first called that Ineos was "clear ahead" before turning to port (as he was allowed) so as to promote a close encounter so that ITUK would have to alter course and lose their advantage in order to avoid LRTT. That didnít happen, hence the protest. I can only think that the umpires decided that he left the dial down too late for ITUK to be able to alter course without worsening the close quarters situation.

    Looking at the replay:



    Öhe started the move 10s and steadied only 5s before the cross. That sort of interval is probably common in dinghy sailing (others will know more about that than me) but the AC75 is not that agile at 40 knots downwind. That's my supposition...and I may be wrong.


    Edit The dynamics were a little different in 2007...www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcgy_tFro7s.
    At that kind of pace the dial down would need to have them on the hook much sooner.

    GBR had about a boat length in hand to avoid the penalty.

    Must have needed some new Belstaff pants after that ...

    To set up and gybe to avoid contact after opposition change of course would need perhaps 10s ... dialing down that late wasnít going to work.

    Your screen shot is good in that it shows no course change from GBR.

  4. #154
    Is there anywhere to see an overhead video of the cross?

  5. #155
    Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    3,214
    Apologies if posted before , a good video analysis of the Patriot capsize and the actions of the crew and helm just prior to the tack

    https://youtu.be/pXLUIouASdM

    Steve

  6. #156
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,990
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by higham5 View Post
    Apologies if posted before , a good video analysis of the Patriot capsize and the actions of the crew and helm just prior to the tack

    https://youtu.be/pXLUIouASdM

    Steve
    Good analysis that; as I said in post #114 Goody had forecast the issue but Barker stuck with his plan and the consequences are there to be seen.

    I think this is maybe where GBR have strength as if that was GBR and Scott had called the bear away gybe last minute Ainslie would probably do it ...

  7. #157

  8. #158
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,990
    Blog Entries
    1
    Letís hope they are still competitive. Some entertainment coming.

  9. #159
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Letís hope they are still competitive. Some entertainment coming.
    AM have been practicing: AM 28 Jan 2021 on YouTube.

    As have their opposition: LR 28 Jan 2021 on YouTube...but without their backstays, as far as I can see. However, they will need them tomorrow: Italians lose crucial AC75 rules appeal.

  10. #160
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,990
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    AM have been practicing: AM 28 Jan 2021 on YouTube.

    As have their opposition: LR 28 Jan 2021 on YouTube...but without their backstays, as far as I can see. However, they will need them tomorrow: Italians lose crucial AC75 rules appeal.

    I hope they will be competitive; I will find out over my Weetabix tomorrow.

    I wasn't clear from that article; has the time out opportunity been removed?

  11. #161
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I hope they will be competitive; I will find out over my Weetabix tomorrow.

    I wasn't clear from that article; has the time out opportunity been removed?
    By my reading of Regatta Director Notice #12 (link) the 'Delay of Start Time' provision was only implemented for Round Robins 3 and 4. Unless there is another amendment to the Sailing Instructions for the Prada Cup forthcoming then it shouldn't apply to the semi-final or final races. As it was 'useful' I can see that the teams may agree to such a change, but have yet to hear about it.

  12. #162
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,990
    Blog Entries
    1
    I think the ability to delay is sensible given how high tech the whole set up is.

    No one wants to watch dud matches due to tech failure.

  13. #163
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I think the ability to delay is sensible given how high tech the whole set up is.

    No one wants to watch dud matches due to tech failure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I think the ability to delay is sensible given how high tech the whole set up is.

    No one wants to watch dud matches due to tech failure.
    It may be up for discussion but it was introduced as a trial after LR suffered the loss of their data feed (link):

    ...The regatta director Iain Murray said a team which believed it had not received from the race officials, digital data including course boundaries, could call a 15-minute delay.

    The idea will be trialled during todayís resumption of the Prada Cup round robin series, which today will be sailed on the ďstadiumĒ course C, in moderate south-westerly winds upwards of 12 knots at 4pm.

    ...

    Murray did not believe that any difficulties Luna Rossa might have had with race data last Sunday were the fault of the eventís Race Management System (RMS).

    But he said he did not have the ability during the pre-start countdown, to adjudicate whether a team's data problems were its own issue, or lay with data relayed by race officials...


    By that account Ineos used the delay for something that it was not intended to cover, ie a boat fault. A lot will depend upon which, if any, teams continue to support the idea and for which purposes. I'd imagine that the negotiations are pretty intense. Indeed, by that reading Luna Rossa may feel that they lost out and Ineos will look on it as good fortune / tactics.

  14. #164
    Craftsman Ginpopy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Darmstadt / Germany
    Posts
    274
    Best of 7 races now for Italy vs. USA?



    Forza Italia !


    Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

  15. #165
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,990
    Blog Entries
    1
    Sadly it looks like America Magic is still wounded and this semi match will be a whitewash ...

    Fingers crossed for tomorrow but it just looks like they have not had enough time to recover from the capsize.

  16. #166
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Sadly it looks like America Magic is still wounded and this semi match will be a whitewash ...

    Fingers crossed for tomorrow but it just looks like they have not had enough time to recover from the capsize.
    It does look that way. I feel that I can safely cancel the alarm set for race 7 on Tuesday and I just hope that we get to see racing on Sunday. After all that effort it would be cruel if the AM didn't win a single race. As a new team set up for this America's Cup challenge and having been denied the world series of preliminary races they have a lot to be proud of. Let's not write them off just yet but if they don't progress to the final I expect to see them back for the AC37.

  17. #167
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Ashbourne, UK
    Posts
    388
    They certainly didn't seem to be lacking on the speed front - 53 knots!! The starts were both poor though from AM. I hope they turn it around for tomorrow.

    Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk

  18. #168
    Master sweets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bristol - UK
    Posts
    5,467
    That top speed flattered them, I think, as they achieved just before they dropped the boat, so it was an acceleration that seemed to be part of a ditch, rather than something they could maintain.
    It seemed that their sail choice didn't allow them to match LR in almost any leg. in 16 legs over 2 races they matched on 2, I thnk?
    Plus, they dropped it 3 times in the same place rounding the right marker at the windward end in race 2.
    LR hit the deck once, and was back on the plane within a couple of seconds, but when AM dropped it they took tens of seconds to reset, losing hunreds of metres each time.
    I am not sure they have anything like the opportunity to improve enough to challenge.
    And it seems LR can sail very well indeed when not under pressure.

  19. #169
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,990
    Blog Entries
    1
    The top speed is always achieved as they go through the power zone on the bear away; its the same in skiff dinghies.

    They seemed to have ventilation issues on the rudder during the high speed bear always which is why they were spinning out. This may be down to issues with the control system on the rudder flaps.

    Either way I hope they come back tomorrow in the lighter winds with a full size main and can actually get stuck in at the start.

    I suspect they didn't have confidence in the boat to allow them to attack at the start; tomorrow they will have little choice but to go on the offensive; expect some fireworks.

  20. #170
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    One of the data presented on the dashboard...along with speed and vmg...is ride height. I noticed how well Team Ineos seem now to have it under control and below that achieved (in most instances) by Luna Rossa. The pundits did tell me that a smaller water to hull gap is favourable to performance, but I cannot say that I understand this. American Magic were flying very high in practice on Wednesday, their first day back on the water, and lower on Thursday. In the race they seemed to lose control of their height at times, and in particular during the roundings where they suffered a loss of control. Ineos seem to have been working on their communications and to have sorted out the handover between their two pilots (flight controllers). I've only seen one other flight controller in the crew listings (on American Magic). Maybe this is an aspect that needs more attention?

  21. #171
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    Very different conditions forecast for Saturday and it's back to course A: Twitter link.

  22. #172
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,990
    Blog Entries
    1
    With a high ride height there is more chance of the foil cresting and hence cavitating and so causing more drag. You want attached laminar flow at all times which means you want the foils in the water ... not the air.

  23. #173
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    With a high ride height there is more chance of the foil cresting and hence cavitating and so causing more drag. You want attached laminar flow at all times which means you want the foils in the water ... not the air.
    That much I understand, it's the effect of the air gap beneath the vessel that I think has some effect as well. Maybe it is something to do with the aerodynamics but I cannot be sure.


    Update: The best I can find...https://youtu.be/kHcRlIdq41Q?t=409.
    Last edited by PickleB; 30th January 2021 at 01:18.

  24. #174
    Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    3,214
    Again as an avid follower off the AC , but not fully understanding all the hydrodynamics, what caused AM to washout at the same place 3x . I noticed the helm was fighting with the wheel , then the boat just shunted to the left.

    I hope AM get their act together today since if they lose leg 3 their tails will be down.

    Steve.

  25. #175
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074


    Plenty of practice going on this week: www.youtube.com/c/JustinMitchellTV/videos.

  26. #176
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    New Challenger of Record for 202#?

    Breaking news from the America’s Cup on the eve of the Prada Cup Final, Emirates Team New Zealand have made an agreement with one of the teams in the event of a successful defence of the Auld Mug. It is no secret that they have fallen out of love with the Italian challengers, Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli, and with American Magic signalling their desire to go back to displacement boats, Sir Ben Ainslie and INEOS Team UK have stepped up as the next Challenger of Record.

    Live Sail Die understands that there is strong agreement between the two teams about the future of the America’s Cup and the importance of foiling in that future. It is also understood that the current AC75 class will be kept, with the possibility of selling boats to other challengers. This would allow for further development of the radical new class and make it more economic to mount a challenge. We would love to see a much bigger fleet take to the Hauraki Gulf in three years time, with the tourist numbers that this event deserves.

    As part of the agreement, there are plans for some sort of “World Series Tour” in the northern hemisphere in the years before the Challenger Series and America’s Cup...


    Of course, one of the two teams (ETNZ and the other) first has to win this time.


    Edit Meet Andre Bird on YouTube. What he says and looking at whatever device he is pictured working on backs up the comments about the complexity of the AC75 from the video in my previous post.
    Last edited by PickleB; 9th February 2021 at 14:04.

  27. #177
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,990
    Blog Entries
    1
    Canít wait for Friday ...

  28. #178
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Can’t wait for Friday ...
    Make that 02h15 GMT on Saturday morning? Unless you're in the US or a Pacific Island territory...
    Last edited by PickleB; 9th February 2021 at 21:37.

  29. #179
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Ashbourne, UK
    Posts
    388
    Yes, really looking forward to the racing this weekend.

    Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk

  30. #180
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,990
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Make that 02h15 GMT on Saturday morning? Unless you're in the US or a Pacific Island territory...

    My mistake, I thought it started Friday.

  31. #181
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I hope they will be competitive; I will find out over my Weetabix tomorrow.

    I wasn't clear from that article; has the time out opportunity been removed?
    The time out is back for the PC Finals (see Noticeboard):

    SAILING INSTRUCTIONS for the PRADA CUP

    8. DELAY OF START TIME


    8.1 A Competitor has one opportunity to request a 15 minute delay in their scheduled start time, except a Competitor cannot request a delay for a start time occurring in the last 60 minutes available for a start in the last two scheduled reserve days. The yacht shall inform the Race Committee when they wish to delay the race prior to their Warning signal.

    8.2 The Competitor receives another opportunity to request a 15 minute delay if, following the delay pursuant section 8.1 above:

    (a) the ACHB team confirms that the yacht could not interface with the RMS data without fault from the Competitor; or

    (b) the race is abandoned on the same day as the delay was granted.


    Edit The same is true for the AC36 Cup Match, see Match SI 1.1.pdf.
    Last edited by PickleB; 10th February 2021 at 11:47.

  32. #182
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,990
    Blog Entries
    1
    Makes sense; no one wants to watch a null match ...

  33. #183
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Make that 02h15 GMT on Saturday morning? Unless you're in the US or a Pacific Island territory...
    Amended to 03h12 GMT (16h12 NZDT) according to the website.

  34. #184
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    Not anything to do with the AC but this caught my eye:


    courtesy of www.sail-world.com


    It's a classic boat dating back to 1920...Yendys.

    Can I ask any experts out there if that's a studding sail at the leech of the mainsail? If not, what is it called, please?

  35. #185
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    Sir Ben: podcast.

    Background on YouTube...and the second half of the podcast: here.

  36. #186
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Not anything to do with the AC but this caught my eye:

    ...image...

    It's a classic boat dating back to 1920...Yendys.

    Can I ask any experts out there if that's a studding sail at the leech of the mainsail? If not, what is it called, please?
    One more:



    Count the crew. That an 18 ft skiff with more onboard than the AC50s that raced in the last America's Cup.

    They did OK...link.

  37. #187
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    As a reminder (not that anyone needs it):



    I wonder if 'Sir Ben' will need to get angry?

  38. #188
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,990
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    As a reminder (not that anyone needs it):



    I wonder if 'Sir Ben' will need to get angry?
    Heís always angry on the water, jeckell and Hyde.

  39. #189
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    He’s always angry on the water, jeckell and Hyde.
    Completely serious and cutthroat maybe, but not "seriously unhappy" unless provoked...2012.

  40. #190
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,990
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Completely serious and cutthroat maybe, but not "seriously unhappy" unless provoked...2012.
    Looking forward to the racing.

  41. #191
    Master Halitosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    West Lothian
    Posts
    1,005
    Can anyone advise on live coverage? Not on any of my Virgin sport channels by the looks of things (though I’ve also lost my glasses!)

    Edit - found it on Youtube. Very exciting


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    Last edited by Halitosis; 13th February 2021 at 07:39.

  42. #192
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,990
    Blog Entries
    1
    Disappointing start ... bigger breeze tomorrow so fingers crossed.

  43. #193
    Fingers crossed indeed . Prada looking very assured .

  44. #194
    Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    London
    Posts
    4,959
    Keeps it fresh. The Italian the were faultless.
    Here's to the next one.

    Sent from my moto g 5G plus using Tapatalk

  45. #195
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Ashbourne, UK
    Posts
    388
    Yes, disappointing start. Luna Rossa sailed well, no mistakes. Ineos didn't look as slick as they had been in the previous stage, even a breakdown in the comms between Ben Ainslie and Giles Scott on that first cross in the second race. Hope tomorrow brings better results.

    Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk

  46. #196
    Craftsman Ginpopy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Darmstadt / Germany
    Posts
    274

    2021 America's Cup

    Forza Italia !

    4:0 for Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli.

    Whatís going on with team UK?

    Boats look very similar in all disciplines.





    Always in front 12/12legs.



    Always slightly faster. Just a little nuance.

    Looked like all 4 races have been won at the start.

    Come on Team UK Ineos!


    Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk
    Last edited by Ginpopy; 14th February 2021 at 11:50.

  47. #197
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Ginpopy View Post
    ...Whatís going on with team UK?

    Boats look very similar in all disciplines.

    ...images...

    Looked like all 4 races have been won at the start.

    Come on Team UK Ineos!
    As you say, the performance of the boats is very similar but I cannot help feeling that Rita appears to be just a tad slower and not to point up quite as well. At times their VMG matched Luna Rossa but rarely has it been greater. Let's hope that there is something in the rig, sail choice, tuning or handling that can be tweeked before the defecit is too great.

  48. #198
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,990
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    As you say, the performance of the boats is very similar but I cannot help feeling that Rita appears to be just a tad slower and not to point up quite as well. At times their VMG matched Luna Rossa but rarely has it been greater. Let's hope that there is something in the rig, sail choice, tuning or handling that can be tweeked before the defecit is too great.
    If you sail all the beats in dirty air you will obviously have worse stats upwind.

    If we could win a start I suspect the situation would reverse.

    We have done a poor job of starting and there are no significant weather features to exploit when the boats are so even.

    Iím wondering whatís in the NoR about the series given the Auckland lockdown. 4 could already be a winning score line if the programme loses races.

  49. #199
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    M25 J6 UK
    Posts
    17,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    If you sail all the beats in dirty air you will obviously have worse stats upwind.

    If we could win a start I suspect the situation would reverse.

    We have done a poor job of starting and there are no significant weather features to exploit when the boats are so even.

    Iím wondering whatís in the NoR about the series given the Auckland lockdown. 4 could already be a winning score line if the programme loses races.
    See Match Conditions (CORD 26).pdf for: the "Schedule may from time to time be revised or modified by COR/D in consultation with the Regatta Director."

    And this link for:

    As a result of the Government announcement of a Level 3 lockdown in Auckland, initially for 72 hours, the next scheduled race day on Wednesday has been postponed and the event village will not be open to the public during this time. Americaís Cup Event Ltd will be working with the Authorities and relevant agencies over the next few days to work through the ongoing ramifications

  50. #200
    Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    London
    Posts
    4,959
    Very very close and perfect example of any mistakes and you loose.

    I do love the neatness of the foot of the Italian main. It's like there's no boom, the whole set up is integrated giving proper wing, whereas Britannia's foot/boom looks like what it is. Perhaps in lighter wind that marginal finesse makes a difference.

    Ben has a history of coming back big time, but for now well done to the team that's sailing the best races.

    Sent from my moto g 5G plus using Tapatalk

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Do Not Sell My Personal Information