Reply With QuoteI'll better that. Last year I had trouble getting a £100 USA market Seiko from eBay. I think Seiko do try to prevent exclusive market watches from going global. Beggars belief.
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Twice recently I have been told by watch sellers in Japan that "Seiko do not allow them to ship their watches to the UK".
One watch was a second hand ladies Grand Seiko via eBay. It definitely wasn't an elective decision from the seller as I ended buying SWMBO a used Omega DeVille from the same seller.
More recently, another retailer of new watches said that they are not allowed to ship Seiko watches to the UK, although we found a way to ship them via a friend of mine in Europe.
Does anyone know if this is an actual thing, and what the driver is for it?
Last edited by danmiddle2; 18th November 2017 at 12:26.
I'll better that. Last year I had trouble getting a £100 USA market Seiko from eBay. I think Seiko do try to prevent exclusive market watches from going global. Beggars belief.
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That seems like needless level of control.Originally Posted by stefmcd
What I don't get is the 2nd watch, though? Surprised Seiko have time to care...
A big bureaucratic entity can do this via technology. They can ban watches with certain model numbers from being sold on ebay out with their intended market.
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This is probably not news to a lot of people, but possibly this is connected to the recurring problem with eBay's allegedly Global Shipping Programme. Ever tried for example, bidding on or hitting the Buy-it-Now button on a watch let's say listed by a US eBay seller, which theoretically is available to you (in the UK) via the GSP - only to be met with this error message ?
I'm not talking just Seiko watches, but other brands where the seller has (for whatever reason) included the word Seiko in the title or description. I've contacted a number of eBay sellers about this issue and they all say there's nothing wrong with their seller settings and they're not blocking UK bidders / buyers, etc.
Now we all know what a money grabbing outfit eBay are - every opportunity to make a sale = more commission for them. So who is enforcing this covert veto on sales of secondhand Seikos to UK ?
Don't laugh (I had absolutely no intention of bidding on this to win), but it would have been nice to be actually able to put in a low bid, just for the heck of it. This was a recent perfect example of the 'blocked because of 'Seiko' problem. US eBay seller offering a well-worn Orient J39 (re-branded Seiko 7A38) through the GSP programme.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-8...181?rmvSB=true
I traded several messages with seller regarding the example above (I know him through SCWF). He confirmed there was nothing wrong with his settings and it was down to 'Seiko'.
Last edited by Seiko7A38; 18th November 2017 at 11:33. Reason: Adding recent example
I get that they can do it, but honestly, it seems a level of "control freak" too far. I am happy to buy the watch, pay the shipping, pay the import duty etc... why can't I just buy the watch?
I have more Seiko's in my collection than anything else, including some expensive and rare ones.... This kind of bureaucratic control actually creates a big negative for me in relation to the brand. Not enough for me to sell / give up, but still, it does take the edge off.
Indeed it does, particularly when it appears to be a 'blanket ban' (through eBay's GSP) when it involves any watch listing with the word Seiko in the title or description - whether it's actually a Seiko watch or not !
I don't see how it would be in eBay's interests... surely they get the same fees etc no matter who wins, and more bidders = more competition on bidding etc. It would appear they are enforcing the will of Seiko, Orient or whoever. Bizarre.
when you list stuff on the bay you can determine which territories you ship to
if seiko has told the sellers they will only supply them if they only ship to certain territories then there is not much eBay can do about it
its not their decision
the used/ secondhand market thing though i can't get my head round at all.
Yep, non-AD and sellers of used items make no sense. Can't see how it is worth Seiko's time to monitor / enforce the used market.
Are sellers of used watchers doing this?
Yes, I have had experience of this and Seiko7A38 has posted another example.
I don't see how they could enforce this for used.
The threat to current supply yes, but the used trade??
I'd simply set up a different business for new and used.
Then it is ebay doing this and not Seiko dealers under pressure from Seiko.
Not according to the sellers... as per my original post, I purchased a different (Omega) watch from the same seller in the end. The seller stated is was Seiko who enforced this restriction.
Others appear to have had similar experiences.
What control can they have over individual sellers who aren't ADs (or have any dealings with Seiko)?
Hence my post and confusion - it has happened multiple times to me.
Here is an example item. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEIKO-GRA...2/263325166082
"Ships worldwide", but when you try to click Buy it now from the UK, it won't let you....
I have purchased other watches from this seller who is happy to ship to the UK.
Contact the seller - see what he says.
This is what I got:
This response from another seller:Dear,danmiddle2
Thank you for asking.
I can not open it.
Due to the agreement with SEIKO, this watch can not be shipped to Europe.
Thank you,best regards.
CLOSER Ltd
Tomita
Hi Dan,
Thank you for your message. About shipping option, Ebay does not allow to ship Seiko to UK, unfortunately.
Last edited by danmiddle2; 18th November 2017 at 12:24.
Well that does suggests Seiko are doing this through eBay.
Yep - and both were used items.
In the first instance I ended up buying an Omega from the same seller
In the second instance I ended up doing a deal outside of eBay with the same seller... they did ask me not to mention their identity.
I have had the response from sellers of new items, which is more understandable.
weird that they will do this on a single used item, but all those 'irish' based sellers are selling jdm and non jdm seiko while undercutting uk authorised retailers. guess it can't last forever.
Exactly. Had the US eBay seller not put the words 'Seiko 7A38' in his title (and description) and instead put 'Orient J3920' (which is how the movement in this watch is actually stamped) I would have been able to place a bid. Obviously the seller did that to gain more attention for his listing, because collectors are more familiar with that form of the movement.
In the past I've seen several Yema N8's (think Spationaute III, Flygraf*, etc. - which actually use the Shimauchi V906 branded version of the movement) listed by US eBay sellers, offered through the GSP programme, where I haven't been able to place a bid because of this same effectively keyword spamming use of 'Seiko 7A38'*
Seiko haven't owned Yema since 1995, so why should they care ? Answer is they don't - it's simply a helluva lot easier to get eBay to place a 'blanket ban' on anything with the word 'Seiko' in the title or description.
Obviously there are ways round it, getting a US buddy to bid or do the B-I-N for you and post it onto the UK, but we shouldn't need to be having to circumvent this stupid dictate from Seiko management.
Perhaps we can get Seiko UK to comment on this. Or not. I suspect the silence would be deafening.
*Yet the very first Yema N8 Flygraf I bought from eBay in the States through the GSP programme - where the seller hadn't made the 7A38 connection - hence no mention of the 'S' word, no problems whatsoever !
Last edited by Seiko7A38; 18th November 2017 at 12:35.
I guess that explains it, but it must be more specific than the word Seiko.. as I have purchased others without issue.Exactly. Had the US eBay seller not put the words 'Seiko 7A38' in his title (and description) and instead put 'Orient J3920' (which is how the movement in this watch is actually stamped) I would have been able to place a bid. Obviously the seller did that to gain more attention for his listing, because collectors are more familiar with that form of the movement.
In the past I've seen several Yema N8's listed (Spationaute III, Flygraf*, etc.) by US eBay sellers (which actually use the Shimauchi V906 branded version of the movement) listed offered through the GSP programme, where I haven't been able to place a bid because of this same effectively keyword spamming use of 'Seiko 7A38'*
Seiko haven't owned Yema since 1995, so why should they care ? Answer is they don't - it's simply a helluva lot easier to get eBay to place a 'blanket ban' on anything with the word 'Seiko' in the title or description.
Obviously there are ways round it, getting a US buddy to bid or do the B-I-N for you and post it onto the UK, but we shouldn't need to be having to circumvent this stupid dictate from Seiko management.
Perhaps we can get Seiko UK to comment on this. Or not. I suspect the silence would be deafening.
*Yet the very first Yema N8 Flygraf I bought from eBay in the States through the GSP programme - where the seller hadn't made the 7A38 connection - hence no mention of the 'S' word, no problems whatsoever !
It doesn't make it any less frustrating, however...
I don't think it is any more specific than the word 'Seiko' (hence the problem I encounter quite regularly with Orient J39's and Yema N8's) - and I wholeheartedly agree with you !
Does Japanese law not have a similar law to the first-sale doctrine? (the idea that the sale of 'normal' second hand goods is nothing to do with the original seller).
All seems very strange to get this involved in second hand goods.
What happens if people try to buy from Amazon.jp? same result?
Just tried the same thing - purely because of this thread really. Tried 2 USA newly listed 2nd hand Seiko with no reserve sales and it came up with----
We are sorry but the item you selected may not be purchased due to Seller shipping restrictions, country specific import/export or other relevant restrictions.
However, I just did the same thing with similar Seiko items coming from Japan and no pop ups but I think the Japan one wasn't in the Global Shipping program because there's no note of Import Charges on the main page.
After all, Seiko couldn't case less if a 40 year old watch went anywhere in the world. I can understand a company restricting current models when different countries have different pricing policies (even though as a WIS, it's incredibly frustrating now that the world is a smaller place and we can see country exclusive products)
I'm wondering if it's a glitch with the Global Shipping thing ebay introduced. I'll have to find a USA item that hasn't registered for the Global Shipping and see if that's the culprit.
That's the same error message that I posted a screen print of earlier - note the last few words.
I should probably have added earlier that I've personally only ever encountered this problem with Seikos (or listings for other brands, including the word 'Seiko' in the title or description - rightly or wrongly) offered by US eBay sellers through the Global Shipping Programme (to UK).
Initially, like you I thought it might a 'glitch' with the GSP programme, because prior to the advent of the GSP, so many US eBay sellers suffered from that CONUS only mentality.
But think about it - what other country country currently uses the GSP programme to any great effect, except the States ? Answer none.
Last edited by Seiko7A38; 18th November 2017 at 13:42. Reason: grammar
I thought I remembered seeing this problem discussed somewhere on SCWF before ....
I'm not sure if this is the most relevant topic, but I found this thread from earlier this year:
http://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...g-program.html
It includes a couple of interesting posts ....
#4 by a US poster:
#8 by a Dutch poster (I knew the problem wasn't just restricted to UK bidders / buyers):Let me chime in. I cannot tell if you guys are discussing ebay or not, but if you are, be aware that any listing that uses the word "Seiko" in the auction title will be inspected in the ebay USA location to combat counterfeiting. No matter how well the seller packs the watch, ebay does a disgraceful cursory 're-packing' to the point where they put a 6117 World Time in a plain manilla envelope and it fell out along the way and the buy got an empty envelope and I had to fight as the seller to not let the buyer get a refund from my account but instead have ebay cover THEIR loss.
I will never sell through the eBay Global Shipping Program again. My story echoes a zillion others, as sellers our stuff is mishandled before it leaves the USA.
HA! I can't even BID on a watch in the USA when the seller uses the dreaded GSP. Everything with the word "Seiko" or "Longines" and some other brands gets blocked, watches, bracelets, turds, everything...
Last edited by Seiko7A38; 18th November 2017 at 14:08.
This morning I noticed the UK eBay seller of a 7A28 RAF Gen. 1 had specifically written something about this Seiko driven GSP shipping embargo in his description:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-Gen...h/142964777023
I will ship to North America, Oceania and Europe. Due to restrictions placed by Global Shipping Programme, which prevents the sale of Seiko products between EU and other regions, I am unable to offer GSP on this item.
Last edited by Seiko7A38; 8th October 2018 at 22:08.
Funny that this should be bumped, I've noticed on creation watches recently that they won't ship certain Seikos to the UK now. Maybe we're destined to buy dodgy £400 Seiko kinetics from HSamuel forever more.
Does this apply to a buyer from Japan, I recently sold a Seiko watch through the global shipping program, the buyer was in Japan, no issues seen on this transaction.
When I looked previously, Japan was on the accepted mailing list for the global shipping, so I assume not an issue to send from the UK.
Perhaps they're driving customers towards using their UK/Europe based partner? I think it's called City Watches.
______
Jim.
I'm in the same boat and its driving me nuts!
I've managed to source from a US AD a Grand Seiko SGBH037 but they won't ship to the UK.
So frustrating.
This is where having a watch mad nut in the US as a friend can come in useful. I do understand your frustration though. We live in a much smaller world than our parents did due to social media, Instagram, Facebook etc. It doesn't make sense for these policies to exist, much less having limited editions or country specific models.
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You have my sympathies, it is enough to drive you mad...
This is of course the correct answer ....
However, it does become a bit embarrassing after a while, having to continually ask so many favors of him, because of this ill-conceived policy. That and the CONUS only mentality, which afflicts so many parochially minded US sellers.
I got fed up with trying to bid on eBay in the US and this happening. I’d be in that zone after watching an auction for a week, a reminder coming on my phone to where the heart’s going, you think you’re going to get a cool vintage Seiko, you punch that bid in and sit there watching the clock go to the last few seconds and hit submit... then up comes that message!
Now if there’s something in the US I want I will bid on it straight away, a small token amount just to see if I’m able to bid. The majority of the time I can’t do it saves the disappointment and I just move on.
Unfortunately for me I don't know anyone in the US I could trust with such a task.
With the interconnected world we live in today it simply makes no sense to limit these pieces to specific countries/regions.
Being a Iranian national I can't just jump on a plane either or otherwise I would.
I've been scratching my head for two months trying to figure out a way to get this watch.
I have located several other 037 from Japan sellers who are willing to ship to the UK but the watches have been polished by 3rd parties, which for me is not acceptable.
Have Jura watches got one in stock?
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Given city watches don't give any real detail about what company actually owns them and their current returns policy isn't lawful - I'd give it miss.
My post wasn't a recommendation for City Watches. It was simply an observation that some of the restricted watches may be available from Creation's European arm. Caveat Emptor etc. should apply.
I've posted in the past about my dislike of Creation's T&Cs, so not recommending them either.
______
Jim.
In hindsight, it probably wasn't the most relevant topic - it just happened to be one I'd read recently.
I was doing some more googling on this annoying subject, this morning, and found another thread on SCWF from 2 years ago:
https://www.thewatchsite.com/33-off-...after-all.html
(The OP 'GuyJ' is 'Bodo' on this forum.)
This is still bugging the hell out of me. So this morning I googled that bloody annoying eBay 'error' message:
We are sorry, but the item you selected may not be purchased due to seller shipping restrictions or due to country-specific import/export or other relevant restrictions.
and the code ebay 779732x
I've since spent some considerable time reading through the dozens of results it returns. No meaningful answers on any of the eBay community threads. But I did find yet another old thread on SCWF from 2014. This post is by a newbie is possibly significant.
https://www.thewatchsite.com/106-eba...ml#post1040738
Hello
I had same message with all seiko I tried to bid in US using ebay global selling program.
Ebay customer support told me that seller has to contact GSP.
After some discussion with a seller he told me that seiko uk hired someone to make a hard time to ebay.
They may dont like that people in Europe could find better price oversea.
Apparently GSP has blocked all seiko without differentiate restricted model and not restricted one.
No difference for new and pre-owned ones as well.
This is crazy
Seiko UK doesn't want parallel import of new Grand Seiko watches directly from ADs in Japan.
This does however not stop anyone from shipping used watches to UK.
I can understand why they do that as potentially with currency fluctuations it can be potentially a fair amount cheaper.
Not sure why the same seems to be the case for used watches, maybe easier to prevent sales new or otherwise rather than sifting through listings.
From a customer perspective it sucks however, especially as some watches are only available in the domestic market.Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using TZ-UK mobile app
I can give you a good idea exactly what has happened here.
Seiko UK is absolutely on its arse. It's as simple as that. Their sales figures have been poor and they have been laying off staff, "restructuring". Of course, what's to blame but grey imports not allowing them to overcharge us as effectively as they should be permitted in their territory.
Hence this backlash.
Agree! SEIKO UKs pricing is insane and the mark up compared to the Japanese prices is stupid high!
You cant fight the internet however, big discrepancies in prices will only lead to UK buyers buying elsewhere anyway, there are always workaround solutions.
Screw you GSP
Indeed there are, he says with a smug satisfied grin.
Remember that old SCWF thread dating back to 2013, which I linked in a previous post ?
https://www.thewatchsite.com/106-eba...ml#post1834265
I read to the bottom of the page (post #21) and took note.
On Monday evening, I did almost that. I then bid on a 7-day auction for a Seiko 7A38, which was listed by a US eBay seller, offering shipping to UK via the non-functional GSP program - and WON.Problem is Ebay not Paypal. Ebay US looks for the primary shipping address. Go to Ebay control panel, add a fictitious US address, make it primary, then try to buy or request total from seller.. I paid the seller. He's shipped it. It's kinda circumvented the GSP shall we say.
I'll write up the full details in a new thread on my own forum, in the next day or so and post a link here for anybody who may want to follow suit.
Last edited by Seiko7A38; 31st October 2018 at 21:50.
Where there aren't legal structures in place to guarantee "free movement" (e.g. in the EU), companies are generally free to contract however they want. It may well be that Seiko restricts their regional retailers not to ship outside of their designated regions. This is called "exclusivity", something that is generally contrary to EU competition law (which European, and to a less degree Swiss, companies are bound by) so we don't really see too much of it here in the UK - although this might not be the case in the near future (depending on what deal we get!).
It makes business sense as exclusivity makes it more attractive to sign up as a Seiko Authorised Dealer as it limits your competition and it means that a "pool" of potential customers will be exclusive to your region and not shared with retailers in other regions.
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