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Thread: Bitcoin

  1. #2501
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalVilla View Post
    I'm not sure really.
    1. You might simply want to use an account you already have, in my case an ISA wrapper. Not necessarily your pension.
    2. Buying bitcoin doesn't seem super straightforward, especially when you look at the risks involved with the various exchanges and different types of wallet.

    Personally, if there was a good derivative / tracker product I'd much prefer to use that than the added hassle and complication of holding actual crypto.

    I'll do my own research and will probably end up buying actual bitcoin.
    Exactly the right thing to do.

    It might seem daunting, but once you get comfortable with it, it's straightforward enough.

  2. #2502
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Fear not.

    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  3. #2503
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  4. #2504
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    Interesting, but looking at that sheet of paper I think I would rather grab a spade and head over to the Newport recycling centre!

    That's fair enough. Unless you happen to have an old Nintendo Game Boy laying around of course?

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=4ckjr9x214c

  5. #2505
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    I just set up my bitcoin node running Umbrel on a Raspberry Pi.

    A bit of head scratching last night as I could not connect to it. I reformatted the Micro SD card this morning and reinstalled Umbrel and boom, it now works

    0.58% of blockchain downloaded so far.

  6. #2506
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    Will it take you less than 125 trillion years to mine 1 BTC?

  7. #2507
    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    Will it take you less than 125 trillion years to mine 1 BTC?
    He’s running a node not mining.

  8. #2508
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    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post
    He’s running a node not mining.
    Ahh - ok. I'm going to have to google that....

  9. #2509
    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    Ahh - ok. I'm going to have to google that....
    Nodes support the network - they validate transactions, maintain and make the blockchain available.

    There is no (financial) reward for running a node.

  10. #2510
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    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post
    Nodes support the network - they validate transactions, maintain and make the blockchain available.

    There is no (financial) reward for running a node.
    Correct.

    Though my next step will be setting up to support the Lightning network too and I understand that can earn transaction processing fees. It will be unlikely to cover the cost of setting up and running the node - I've done that to support the network, to have my own trusted node, and to see if this sparks any interest in my kids.

    A friend did look at a mining rig last year. We worked out it was not worth the effort, cost and risk of mining here in the UK at that time.

    https://news.bitcoin.com/clocking-te...-last-quarter/

    From the article dated 7th December 2020 (BTC ~$20k) the profit is based on electricity price of $0.06 per kWh with a 3.7kw machine. Based on prices from that article, if it was making $10 profit per day, then it must be mining $15.24 (0.00076 BTC) worth per day (24 x $0.06 x 3.7 = $5.24 electricity costs).

    In the UK with exchange rate of 1.38 USD and electricity costs £0.15 per KWh, this equated to mining worth £11.44 per day. Minus 24 x £0.15 x 3.7 = £13.32 So -£1.88 loss per day.
    At $40k bitcoin, we would have mining = £22.88 per day or £9.56 profit per day
    At $60k bitcoin, we would have mining = £34.32 per day or £21.00 profit per day

    Even with the increase of BTC value, there is a shortage of machines so doubtful we could get one and difficulty is increasing so mining returns would diminish as well as depreciation of machinery, outages and downtime. There were easier ways to make money using that $3.9k investment. Using it to buy bitcoin then would have seen a value of $11k now.
    Last edited by mangoosian; 29th March 2021 at 21:45.

  11. #2511
    Quote Originally Posted by mangoosian View Post
    Correct.

    Though my next step will be setting up to support the Lightning network too and I understand that can earn transaction processing fees. It will be unlikely to cover the cost of setting up and running the node - I've done that to support the network, to have my own trusted node, and to see if this sparks any interest in my kids.

    A friend did look at a mining rig last year. We worked out it was not worth the effort, cost and risk of mining here in the UK at that time.

    https://news.bitcoin.com/clocking-te...-last-quarter/

    From the article dated 7th December 2020 (BTC ~$20k) the profit is based on electricity price of $0.06 per kWh with a 3.7kw machine. Based on prices from that article, if it was making $10 profit per day, then it must be mining $15.24 (0.00076 BTC) worth per day (24 x $0.06 x 3.7 = $5.24 electricity costs).

    In the UK with exchange rate of 1.38 USD and electricity costs £0.15 per KWh, this equated to mining worth £11.44 per day. Minus 24 x £0.15 x 3.7 = £13.32 So -£1.88 loss per day.
    At $40k bitcoin, we would have mining = £22.88 per day or £9.56 profit per day
    At $60k bitcoin, we would have mining = £34.32 per day or £21.00 profit per day

    Even with the increase of BTC value, there is a shortage of machines so doubtful we could get one and difficulty is increasing so mining returns would diminish as well as depreciation of machinery, outages and downtime. There were easier ways to make money using that $3.9k investment. Using it to buy bitcoin then would have seen a value of $11k now.
    More economical in the Winter when can offset heating costs.

  12. #2512
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangoosian View Post
    Correct.

    Though my next step will be setting up to support the Lightning network too and I understand that can earn transaction processing fees. It will be unlikely to cover the cost of setting up and running the node - I've done that to support the network, to have my own trusted node, and to see if this sparks any interest in my kids.

    A friend did look at a mining rig last year. We worked out it was not worth the effort, cost and risk of mining here in the UK at that time.

    https://news.bitcoin.com/clocking-te...-last-quarter/

    From the article dated 7th December 2020 (BTC ~$20k) the profit is based on electricity price of $0.06 per kWh with a 3.7kw machine. Based on prices from that article, if it was making $10 profit per day, then it must be mining $15.24 (0.00076 BTC) worth per day (24 x $0.06 x 3.7 = $5.24 electricity costs).

    In the UK with exchange rate of 1.38 USD and electricity costs £0.15 per KWh, this equated to mining worth £11.44 per day. Minus 24 x £0.15 x 3.7 = £13.32 So -£1.88 loss per day.
    At $40k bitcoin, we would have mining = £22.88 per day or £9.56 profit per day
    At $60k bitcoin, we would have mining = £34.32 per day or £21.00 profit per day

    Even with the increase of BTC value, there is a shortage of machines so doubtful we could get one and difficulty is increasing so mining returns would diminish as well as depreciation of machinery, outages and downtime. There were easier ways to make money using that $3.9k investment. Using it to buy bitcoin then would have seen a value of $11k now.

    Anyone still in doubt what an economic nonsense and ecological disaster bitcoin is?

    About time somebody pulled the plug on this shite.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  13. #2513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Anyone still in doubt what an economic nonsense and ecological disaster bitcoin is?

    About time somebody pulled the plug on this shite.
    I support pulling the rug on the fiat/Keynsian scam.
    Moneyprintergobrrr is beyond any ecological disaster brought on by Bitcoin. Please do some research.

  14. #2514
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    Here come the big boys (I don't believe for a second they don't already hold a position btw)

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/bitc...t-clients.html

  15. #2515

  16. #2516
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    Here come the big boys (I don't believe for a second they don't already hold a position btw)

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/bitc...t-clients.html

    They will just earn commissions, this has nothing to do with their own investments.

    There is client demand, so they facilitate it. Takes quite a bit of infrastructure investment in order to create the necessary processes, main problems being safekeeping and creating a framework for risk reporting.

    And if you are curious which positions they are holding: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...480167d10k.htm
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  17. #2517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    They will just earn commissions, this has nothing to do with their own investments.

    There is client demand, so they facilitate it. Takes quite a bit of infrastructure investment in order to create the necessary processes, main problems being safekeeping and creating a framework for risk reporting.

    And if you are curious which positions they are holding: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...480167d10k.htm
    Intersting Raffe, thanks.

    I guess the good news (for us coiners) is added legitimacy then?

  18. #2518
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    Intersting Raffe, thanks.

    I guess the good news (for us coiners) is added legitimacy then?
    Absolutely, yes.

    We have all seen this picture of seemingly contradicting statements from various banks making the rounds everywhere - it's obviously crap as these statements come from different parts of these organisations at different times (and lots are not even contradictory). A bit like saying Goldman Sachs CEO commented about risk of owning equities and then a year later their research division puts out a recommendation to buy it - or even weaker - their Wealth Management is facilitating it for clients! I understand it gives the coinies satisfaction that banks are opening up their eco systems for cryptos, but that is nothing like endorsement.

    Clearly, there is so much noise around bitcoin and so many clients are asking banks for access (which includes advisory in the next step), banks are not ignoring it anymore and that is a YUGE step.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  19. #2519
    BTC is really struggling around the $59/60K mark. Another rejection this morning at this level, needs a real push / good news to close above these numbers.

  20. #2520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Absolutely, yes.

    We have all seen this picture of seemingly contradicting statements from various banks making the rounds everywhere - it's obviously crap as these statements come from different parts of these organisations at different times (and lots are not even contradictory). A bit like saying Goldman Sachs CEO commented about risk of owning equities and then a year later their research division puts out a recommendation to buy it - or even weaker - their Wealth Management is facilitating it for clients! I understand it gives the coinies satisfaction that banks are opening up their eco systems for cryptos, but that is nothing like endorsement.

    Clearly, there is so much noise around bitcoin and so many clients are asking banks for access (which includes advisory in the next step), banks are not ignoring it anymore and that is a YUGE step.
    This seems like a risky move to me, after all the banksters managed to only narrowly avoid hanging themselves and the rest of us, last decade with just 'conventional' money, requiring unprecedented tax payer/ STATE support to save our bottoms...which ushered in the new normal of zero interest rates, crushing prudent savers.

    I really hope they understand what they're getting into here and they can rein in their natural bankerly urges towards greed and short termist thinking and that the Regulators do a bang up job.

  21. #2521
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    This seems like a risky move to me, after all the banksters managed to only narrowly avoid hanging themselves and the rest of us, last decade with just 'conventional' money, requiring unprecedented tax payer/ STATE support to save our bottoms...which ushered in the new normal of zero interest rates, crushing prudent savers.

    I really hope they understand what they're getting into here and they can rein in their natural bankerly urges towards greed and short termist thinking and that the Regulators do a bang up job.

    Banks will not invest into bitcoin.

    Many reasons for it, the most important one being that they aren't allowed to. Simple.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  22. #2522
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    I’ve said it before, but if you want exposure to bitcoin, buy bitcoin. The only possible reason for not doing this is the inability / unwillingness to use your own funds in favour of using your pension. But the initial point still stands imo.
    The launch next week by JP Morgan of their "Basket of Companies with Exposure to Cryptocurrency" could provide an interesting test of this hypothesis.

    Essentially they are offering notes with an initial purchase price of $1,000 which will be used to buy "an unequally weighted basket consisting of 11 Reference Stocks of U.S.-listed companies that operate businesses that [JPM] believe to be, directly or indirectly, related to cryptocurrencies or other digital assets, including as a result of bitcoin holdings, cryptocurrency technology products, cryptocurrency mining products, digital payments or bitcoin trading". The actual share purchases were scheduled to be made yesterday March 31st.

    The notes run for just over a year and will be redeemed in the first week of May 2022 for the amount that the shares fetch on the market at that time. (Less a 1.5% 'Basket Retention', payable to JPM.)

    You can find a list of the companies, along with their weightings, in the document linked to above which is dated March 9th, 2021. As a prelude to the launch I've put together a rough and ready spreadsheet to try and get some feel for what the relative performance of the basket, measured against both bitcoin and the S&P500, would have been like between March 8th and 31st.

    Increase in value 8/3/21 to 31/3/21
    Bare Bitcoin $1111.81
    JPM CryptoBasket $1094.65 (less 1.5%)
    S&P500 Index $1014.63
    The performance of the individual constituents had a broad variation from +32.1% to -4.25%.

    That's obviously over an extremely short time span during what may well be seen to have been a particularly turbulent patch.

    It is my intention to reset all the values on the official start day (April 6th) and will probably check it sporadically thereafter. I have seen nothing further reported since the initial press releases went out and would be grateful for any pointers/links to subsequent material should anyone encounter such like.
    Last edited by petethegeek; 1st April 2021 at 20:59.

  23. #2523
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethegeek View Post
    The launch next week by JP Morgan of their "Basket of Companies with Exposure to Cryptocurrency" could provide an interesting test of this hypothesis.

    Essentially they are offering notes with an initial purchase price of $1,000 which will be used to buy "an unequally weighted basket consisting of 11 Reference Stocks of U.S.-listed companies that operate businesses that [JPM] believe to be, directly or indirectly, related to cryptocurrencies or other digital assets, including as a result of bitcoin holdings, cryptocurrency technology products, cryptocurrency mining products, digital payments or bitcoin trading". The actual share purchases were scheduled to be made yesterday March 31st.

    The notes run for just over a year and will be redeemed in the first week of May 2022 for the amount that the shares fetch on the market at that time. (Less a 1.5% 'Basket Retention', payable to JPM.)

    You can find a list of the companies, along with their weightings, in the document linked to above which is dated March 9th, 2021. As a prelude to the launch I've put together a rough and ready spreadsheet to try and get some feel for what the relative performance of the basket, measured against both bitcoin and the S&P500, would have been like between March 8th and 31st.

    Increase in value 8/3/21 to 31/3/21
    Bare Bitcoin $1111.81
    JPM CryptoBasket $1094.65 (less 1.5%)
    S&P500 Index $1014.63
    The performance of the individual constituents had a broad variation from +32.1% to -4.25%.

    That's obviously over an extremely short time span during what may well be seen to have been a particularly turbulent patch.

    It is my intention to reset all the values on the official start day (April 6th) and will probably check it sporadically thereafter. I have seen nothing further reported since the initial press releases went out and would be grateful for any pointers/links to subsequent material should anyone encounter such like.

    They will start calculating prices from next week (06 April) - you can search them using the CUSIP 48129KAR1.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  24. #2524
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  25. #2525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Doesn’t he always :-)

  26. #2526
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    Doesn’t he always :-)
    I think taxation was largely optional in the US until now...
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  27. #2527
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    Still struggling to break upwards past $60k. Has been pushing on that door but finding it firmly shut for now

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

  28. #2528
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Still struggling to break upwards past $60k. Has been pushing on that door but finding it firmly shut for now

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    Have to say it looks very strong technically. Not sure how big news the IRS story will be, but absent negative news it should push through 60k and quickly attack 65k.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  29. #2529
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Have to say it looks very strong technically. Not sure how big news the IRS story will be, but absent negative news it should push through 60k and quickly attack 65k.
    Will be interesting to see then what the next main resistance point is.

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

  30. #2530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Banks will not invest into bitcoin.

    Many reasons for it, the most important one being that they aren't allowed to. Simple.
    Maybe it wasn't technically illegal but when banks placed large bets on rehypothecated junky mortgage backed products that had somehow been AAA rated by credit agencies who should've known/ behaved better, well...
    From your keyboard Raffe to someone in charges ears/eyes.

  31. #2531
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    We just need Elon to tweet Moodys to encourage a AAA rating for Bitcoin, then it’s off to the races :-)

  32. #2532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    Maybe it wasn't technically illegal but when banks placed large bets on rehypothecated junky mortgage backed products that had somehow been AAA rated by credit agencies who should've known/ behaved better, well...
    From your keyboard Raffe to someone in charges ears/eyes.
    The Volcker rule was introduced as a response to what happened during the financial crisis, it didn't exist back then.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  33. #2533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    The Volcker rule was introduced as a response to what happened during the financial crisis, it didn't exist back then.
    Ah, good point Raffe, more detail here if anyone like me is interested,

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/volcker-rule.asp

  34. #2534
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    Bitcoin flowing into watch transactions.

    Sold a watch last week, buyer requested to pay via BTC and covering of the fees.

  35. #2535
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    Has anyone here had HSBC whispering gently into their shell-like?

    https://twitter.com/cameron/status/1380526047188369409

  36. #2536
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    Are we clinging on to 60k this time? No huge swing downwards, which is encouraging!

  37. #2537
    I hope so as I finally managed to buy some. A week later, Coinbase still haven't verified my account. Etoro wanted scans of every official document I've collected throughout my life, so I went with Binance, which was very straightforward.

    Only a fairly modest amount, but I thought it made sense to have some. Now I have a little etherium in my sights. I was even tempted with an art nft the other day too, not sure what's come over me, haha!

  38. #2538
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    New ATH. Let's see if it stays

  39. #2539
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    New ATH. Let's see if it stays
    Argo must be ripping, let me check... Oh.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  40. #2540
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Have to say it looks very strong technically. Not sure how big news the IRS story will be, but absent negative news it should push through 60k and quickly attack 65k.
    Well, this was bang on Raffe!

    Any more predictions??

  41. #2541
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    Well, this was bang on Raffe!

    Any more predictions??
    I am not convinced it can hold above 60k. I think there is considerable short term downside risk, worst case to mid-40k. I know that's a brave prediction here and I won't bet on it, just a hunch.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  42. #2542
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    Interesting, and a view I’ve seen echoed elsewhere in recent weeks.

  43. #2543
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    Oh look: the dreaded puking kitty:

    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  44. #2544
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    What happened the camel from a few pages back? Did he recover ;-)

  45. #2545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Oh look: the dreaded puking kitty:

    LOLZ thats a good one! Crazy stuff on the markets today.

  46. #2546
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    Is all this bitcoin frenzy and excitement causing you nosebleeds and dizziness? If so this Inverse Bitcoin ETF may provide you with just the off ramp you are seeking.

  47. #2547
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    Bitcoin seeing some very large leveraged account liquidations since yesterday. Watch out, this maybe the Archegos of crypto....
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  48. #2548
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    Genuinely curious how long until somebody pulls the plug from the biggest dogshite in finance:




    Suppose arrest Elon for his relentless insider pumping at the same time, two birds with one stone.

    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  49. #2549
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    Bought some crypto about 3 years ago during the mini boom and it all went to shit when that crashed. Decided the check my binance account yesterday and randomly found £2k of crypto in there

    Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

  50. #2550
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    $1.3bn in memes and not cashed out yet.

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