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Thread: Bitcoin

  1. #2401
    Grand Master Passenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    I think the argument is that if the Pound was to collapse into worthlessness you could go knock at the Government’s door for recompense. Good luck with that.

    (I fully accept that if Bitcoin collapses there won’t even be a door to knock at— not sure the end result would be much different mind)
    But presumably for the pound to collapse into worthlessness the economy and the State would have to be deemed to be over, kaput, all the UK's assets and resources needs must be deemed worthless...now that does seem one helluva long shot.

    Are you suggesting that if Bitcoin collapsed there'd be the same sort of wealth/ value apocalypse...Could it already too big, too entwined to be allowed to fail... I wouldn't think that's yet the case, though crazy Elon/Tesla might take a bath, oh dear what a shame.

  2. #2402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    But presumably for the pound to collapse into worthlessness the economy and the State would have to be deemed to be over, kaput, all the UK's assets and resources needs must be deemed worthless...now that does seem one helluva long shot.

    Are you suggesting that if Bitcoin collapsed there'd be the same sort of wealth/ value apocalypse...Could it already too big, too entwined to be allowed to fail... I wouldn't think that's yet the case, though crazy Elon/Tesla might take a bath, oh dear what a shame.
    That’s an interesting point; just how big does it have to get before it’s too big to be allowed to fail?

  3. #2403
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    ^^ well the banks were deemed to be too big to fail in 2008, so perhaps many other large corporates would enjoy similar treatment (*not that I'm suggesting crypto currencies would be among them)

  4. #2404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    That’s an interesting point; just how big does it have to get before it’s too big to be allowed to fail?
    Yes I recently started mulling this idea...but unlike the banks it hasn't been widely accepted, except hypothetically at least in some quarters, as currency, isn't critical to the infrastructure, the foundation if you like of the money system...in the way the banks were/are.

    Sure a lot of investors/ speculators, funds, traders, some private companies I suppose now have some exposure but so what if it collapses it's not a Governmental or tax payer problem, so tough luck I'd have thought.

    Whether, how, if that would change IF it ever became regulated...maybe a pretty fundamental, insurmountable challenge to it's regulation and wider acceptance as currency. Afterall, if I'm understanding it right a major part of its raison detre Is its dispersed, quasi anonymous and libertarian/ anti establishment nature...unlike fiat where we all at least 'know' the entities who stand behind them, even if we may not like some of their poliicies as regards QE.

    Interesting stuff.
    Last edited by Passenger; 3rd March 2021 at 08:09.

  5. #2405
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    I think the argument is that if the Pound was to collapse into worthlessness you could go knock at the Government’s door for recompense. Good luck with that.

    (I fully accept that if Bitcoin collapses there won’t even be a door to knock at— not sure the end result would be much different mind)
    I’m pretty sure you know that the FSCS scheme protects cash deposits against the failure of the institution with which you have deposits. No institutions that holds Bitcoin have similar protection.

    What is odd here is that most people don’t store their wealth in cash, it’s in property, equities, commodities, bonds and watches.

    Cash is just the medium of exchange and represents as small percentage of holdings. If that medium of exchange is debased it isn’t really a big deal except for those with all their wealth in cash.

    With some people piling all their assets into crypto it’s an asset mix that the success of such a strategy relies on the value of which continues to rise as measured in the currency which is used as the medium of exchange.

  6. #2406
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    Quote Originally Posted by relaxer7 View Post
    Has anybody paid Capital Gains Tax on their crypto profits? I recently started reading about it and realised I'm going to have a problem...

    My record keeping is very poor to say the least. I have a number of coins bought across numerous exchanges over 5 years and only know the amount I hold and the average price each investment has cost me (in $ rather than £). How an earth do I explain that to the tax man?!
    I track my CGT and coin cost basis using Cointracker and it is all automatically calculated. You can link to cold storage like ledger and some exchanges via API. Other exchanges need a csv download. It works really well. You can pay extra for the tax service per tax year, but you can see high level rough figures without paying. I have enough info from it to know my ballpark CGT gains and trade accordingly to not trigger significant tax events etc this year.

    It also has a tax loss harvesting capability (I guess it indicates what can be sold for losses to counter gains).

  7. #2407
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    All Ponzi schemes make money for lots of people, except the bag holders at the end ...
    Absolutely true and the fiat Ponzi is no different. I'm glad you called it out

  8. #2408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Citi Chart Crimes Part II with its all star cast is now available in a browser near you, if you haven't already seen it.

    https://www.ft.com/content/499f5f48-...a-c6859a05c80c

  9. #2409
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethegeek View Post
    Citi Chart Crimes Part II with its all star cast is now available in a browser near you, if you haven't already seen it.

    https://www.ft.com/content/499f5f48-...a-c6859a05c80c
    Plenty of naysayers have ridiculed bitcoin over the years... including many on here.. but slowly the large financial firms are changing their tune.

    Don't be the last.

  10. #2410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    Are you suggesting that if Bitcoin collapsed there'd be the same sort of wealth/ value apocalypse...Could it already too big, too entwined to be allowed to fail... I wouldn't think that's yet the case, though crazy Elon/Tesla might take a bath, oh dear what a shame.
    Nowhere near big enough for any government to blink an eye, should it fail.

  11. #2411
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangoosian View Post
    Absolutely true and the fiat Ponzi is no different. I'm glad you called it out
    I’m not sure what your point is but you do realise Bitcoin is a fiat currency, if we are defining it as a currency.

    I know there is plenty of debate on this point as it’s not government backed and can’t be debased but the key attribute of a fiat currency is that it has no intrinsic value. The concept of the fiat currency really took hold when the gold standard was dropped.

  12. #2412
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    Nowhere near big enough for any government to blink an eye, should it fail.
    I agree, as it should be and may it remain so. A compelling reason I'd have thought for Governmental entities never to regulate/ licence it, doing anything to foster, participate in or encourage it's adoption.
    I'd guess China might just notice, not enough to care, perhaps a fleeting tic, maybe from the fall off in energy draw.

    Though looked at from the other direction Bitcoin/ miners have rather more to be potentially concerned about from it's over exposure/ dependence upon China's Govt. and their subsdised energy prices/ lax approach to environmental issues/concerns. I would think.
    Last edited by Passenger; 3rd March 2021 at 10:26.

  13. #2413
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    I guess the trouble would be felt more widely if pension funds get heavily into crypto and it then take a dive.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  14. #2414
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    I guess the trouble would be felt more widely if pension funds get heavily into crypto and it then take a dive.
    That´s the sort of gamble you´d hope professionals wouldn´t take...Nevertheless there still wouldn`t be a case for Govt bail outs, iirc there´s no guarantee on a pension fund.

  15. #2415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Plenty of naysayers have ridiculed bitcoin over the years... including many on here.. but slowly the large financial firms are changing their tune.

    Don't be the last.
    LOLZ

  16. #2416
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    I s´pose though a pension or indeed any fund might well have some Twizzler exposure and thus indirectly now Bitcoin exposure, ooh er, brave new world.

  17. #2417
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    I guess the trouble would be felt more widely if pension funds get heavily into crypto and it then take a dive.
    Good thing that pension funds aren't allowed to invest into crypto.

  18. #2418
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    Good to know, thanks.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  19. #2419
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    Nouriel Roubini breaks it down,

    https://www.theguardian.com/business...east-afford-it


    But heck nobody want´s to miss out on those Lambos

  20. #2420
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    First deposit, just waiting to be verified by binance so my current limit is £210. Their fee is £3.78, - is this typical - or sound high to you?

    (Appreciate it's not much money, however I plan to deposit more in the future, then presumably they'll be more charges to buy Bitcoin, and more charges to transfer the Bitcoin to BlockFi (which is my plan))

  21. #2421
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJdB View Post
    First deposit, just waiting to be verified by binance so my current limit is £210. Their fee is £3.78, - is this typical - or sound high to you?

    (Appreciate it's not much money, however I plan to deposit more in the future, then presumably they'll be more charges to buy Bitcoin, and more charges to transfer the Bitcoin to BlockFi (which is my plan))
    Bank transfer is no fee for me. Did you fund by card?

  22. #2422
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangoosian View Post
    Bank transfer is no fee for me. Did you fund by card?
    Sorry I meant the fee to buy Bitcoin. £3.78 to buy £210 worth. Seem high?

  23. #2423
    Quote Originally Posted by PJdB View Post
    Sorry I meant the fee to buy Bitcoin. £3.78 to buy £210 worth. Seem high?
    Coinbase Pro charge 0.50% on small amounts, so that does seem expensive.

  24. #2424
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJdB View Post
    Sorry I meant the fee to buy Bitcoin. £3.78 to buy £210 worth. Seem high?
    Once your money is cleared in your Bitcoin wallet then go to the Trade screen and there is no charge to convert between currencies (unless I’m mistaken)


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  25. #2425
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    Binance charge 2% on card purchases, and free for bank transfers (but I've not been able to set that up), then trading fiat to BTC is 0.1% fees on Binance. The fees you mention seem really high. Are you using the 'convert' option?

  26. #2426
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    On SwissBorg I just pressed "Exchange", they charge 1% to exchange Fiat to BTC

  27. #2427
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJdB View Post
    Sorry I meant the fee to buy Bitcoin. £3.78 to buy £210 worth. Seem high?
    Use the "Pro" trading screens and the fees are low. 0.1% as mentioned (or 0.075% if using BNB)

    1) Fund using bank transfer (no fee)
    2) Trade rather than Buy. Use the GBP/BTC trading pair (0.1% fee). If you go to wallets after the GBP is cleared and in the Binance account, then click Spot, you will see GBP listed as a wallet. Click on that and you should see the GBP/ BTC trading pair to click on. You can then place a limit or market order and this will be at the 0.1% fee.

  28. #2428
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    Should I pay?

    Why are they using a bitcoin wallet and not a bank account number?

    Questions, questions....


    I am aware [my old password from the 2012 Linkedin kack] is one of your pass. Lets get directly to the point. Not a single person has compensated me to check about you. You may not know me and you are most likely thinking why you are getting this email?

    Well, i actually placed a malware on the adult videos (pornography) web-site and there's more, you visited this web site to have fun (you know what i mean). When you were watching video clips, your web browser started out working as a Remote control Desktop with a key logger which provided me accessibility to your screen and also webcam. after that, my software collected every one of your contacts from your Messenger, Facebook, as well as e-mail. after that i created a video. 1st part displays the video you were viewing (you have a fine taste rofl), and second part shows the recording of your web cam, and it is u.

    You get two different options. Why dont we take a look at the options in details:

    1st alternative is to ignore this e-mail. in such a case, i will send out your very own video clip to all your contacts and then consider concerning the humiliation you will see. and definitely if you are in a romantic relationship, just how it will certainly affect?
    Second option would be to compensate me $1651. Lets refer to it as a donation. Then, i most certainly will straightaway erase your video. You could keep daily life like this never happened and you would never hear back again from me.


    You will make the payment through Bitcoin (if you don't know this, search 'how to buy bitcoin' in Google search engine).


    Bitcoin address to send to: 1AzSMP13cQibLC3uzQNaFnVLsZap1h1pSF
    [case sensitive copy and paste it]


    in case you are curious about going to the authorities, well, this email cannot be traced back to me. I have taken care of my actions. i am not trying to charge a fee very much, i would like to be compensated. in order to make the payment if i do not get the bitcoin, i will definately send your video to all of your contacts including relatives, coworkers, and so forth. Having said that, if i receive the payment, i will destroy the video immediately. If you want evidence, reply Yup! & i will send out your video recording to your 14 friends. it is a nonnegotiable offer, therefore don't waste my personal time & yours by responding to this email message.

  29. #2429
    I have seen ransom demands (encrypted servers) sending to protonmail ironic since they were ransom victims but not yet direct to wallet.

  30. #2430
    Master mr noble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangoosian View Post
    Use the "Pro" trading screens and the fees are low. 0.1% as mentioned (or 0.075% if using BNB)

    1) Fund using bank transfer (no fee)
    2) Trade rather than Buy. Use the GBP/BTC trading pair (0.1% fee). If you go to wallets after the GBP is cleared and in the Binance account, then click Spot, you will see GBP listed as a wallet. Click on that and you should see the GBP/ BTC trading pair to click on. You can then place a limit or market order and this will be at the 0.1% fee.
    Do you still directly own the BTC if you buy it via this method, as in, could you then go on to transfer the BTC out onto a tremor wallet, for example, and then move it back onto a totally different exchange to convert it back to GBP?

    I've still not bough any BTC and am getting confused by all the different possabilities.

    Binance, Coinbase, Coinbase Pro, etc etc. Which is best?

  31. #2431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Should I pay?

    Why are they using a bitcoin wallet and not a bank account number?

    Questions, questions....
    Ignore. Phishing. Told our local vicar the same only last week. He shat his pants when he got an e-mail like that. The scariest ones actually know one of your passwords. Usually an old one that you don't use anymore.

    Another reason to change them quite often. I've started adding a "20" "21" etc to my passwords, so I know to change them at least once a year.

  32. #2432
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    Ignore. Phishing. Told our local vicar the same only last week. He shat his pants when he got an e-mail like that. The scariest ones actually know one of your passwords. Usually an old one that you don't use anymore.

    Another reason to change them quite often. I've started adding a "20" "21" etc to my passwords, so I know to change them at least once a year.
    I receive two or three of these every day. The pw is from the 2012 LinkedIn hack. Already had separate passwords for every site back then.

    My point is that any wannabe fraudster uses BTC, while I wouldn't know a single legitimate business who accepts them. Not even Tesla or Microstrategy (and that is stretching the definition of 'legitimate' as far as I am willing to do).

  33. #2433
    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    Do you still directly own the BTC if you buy it via this method, as in, could you then go on to transfer the BTC out onto a tremor wallet, for example, and then move it back onto a totally different exchange to convert it back to GBP?

    I've still not bough any BTC and am getting confused by all the different possabilities.

    Binance, Coinbase, Coinbase Pro, etc etc. Which is best?
    Yes you would. It’s only secondary services like Revolut or PayPal (and possibly eToro?) where you don’t actually own the crypto.

    Never used Coinbase, Kraken has worked well for me.

  34. #2434
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    Do you still directly own the BTC if you buy it via this method, as in, could you then go on to transfer the BTC out onto a tremor wallet, for example, and then move it back onto a totally different exchange to convert it back to GBP?

    I've still not bough any BTC and am getting confused by all the different possabilities.

    Binance, Coinbase, Coinbase Pro, etc etc. Which is best?
    Yes you "own" it. It is another method of buying but without the high fees. I'd say it is the main method people use. You can then transfer to cold storage, etc by using the withdraw option. I have had a bit of a faff transferring using the android app, but fine using the website.

  35. #2435
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    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post
    Yes you would. It’s only secondary services like Revolut or PayPal (and possibly eToro?) where you don’t actually own the crypto.

    Never used Coinbase, Kraken has worked well for me.
    Etoro you can actually transfer to an etoro wallet, then to wallet of your choice. The process is not great though and transfers are against each original trade rather than balance so fees get high.

  36. #2436

  37. #2437
    Quote Originally Posted by mangoosian View Post
    Etoro you can actually transfer to an etoro wallet, then to wallet of your choice. The process is not great though and transfers are against each original trade rather than balance so fees get high.
    Thanks I remember reading there were some constraints with eToro but again I have never used it.

  38. #2438
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    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post
    Thanks I remember reading there were some constraints with eToro but again I have never used it.
    Etoro was my first delve into Crypto at the end of 2017. I was working at a fintech with a younger crowd and they had started playing the markets and I got involved too. The copy trading is pretty clever, but the spreads are nasty. I only hold a bit in there now.

  39. #2439
    $54000 again now...


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  40. #2440
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    If we don't get any more whale leveraged sells then I think we are off to the races. Keeping a close eye on the derivative exchange inflows.

  41. #2441
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    If purchasing bitcoin at arms length via listed companies is still too close for you, how about getting someone else to hold them indirectly (at arms length) for you?

  42. #2442
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethegeek View Post
    If purchasing bitcoin at arms length via listed companies is still too close for you, how about getting someone else to hold them indirectly (at arms length) for you?
    Saw that yesterday.

    I suppose the reluctance of investors is rooted in the anticipated volatility of such an investment rather than not willing to hold shares of exposed companies. I don't really see why one would pay JPM a fee to maintain a static allocation to a handful of names via a certificate?

    Peak financial dumbf**kery.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  43. #2443
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    I guess such would at least protect an individual investor from the risk of theft or loss of their crypto and the fund provider takes such on. Not that I think such is worth the fee, but no doubt there's a market.

  44. #2444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halitosis View Post
    I guess such would at least protect an individual investor from the risk of theft or loss of their crypto and the fund provider takes such on. Not that I think such is worth the fee, but no doubt there's a market.
    It's an equity certificate, with investments in Microstrategy, Square, Riot, NVDA and others. All companies which are either holding BTC on their balance sheet or are in other ways conncted to the hype (Nvidia, Taiwan Semi or Paypal).

    Complete bonkers.

  45. #2445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Peak financial dumbwittery.
    For the boys and girls selling them, perhaps not so much?

  46. #2446
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethegeek View Post
    For the boys and girls selling them, perhaps not so much?
    Been in that business a few lives ago, lots of variable comp is tied to selling b/s stuff.

  47. #2447
    Master mr noble's Avatar
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    BOOOOM 🚀🚀🚀🚀

    $60,000

  48. #2448
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    Lucky I held on to my shitco ARB stock

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  49. #2449
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    Was reading somewhere that Elon Musk is now sitting on a $1 Billion profit profit from his most recent BTC purchase...

  50. #2450
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Lucky I held on to my shitco ARB stock

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    Sadly, Peter Wall has more control over the price of ARB's stock than Bitcoin does. But fingers crossed for big gainz next week.

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