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Thread: Bitcoin

  1. #2351
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Been reading this thread with interest and I fancy a dabble but questions?

    I have about £700 languishing in BP stock so thought about selling these and using the funds for the crypto punt, would it be best to split the funds over several currencies with bigger investments in say Bitcoin and small investments into some of the lesser known crypto's?

    Binance looks like a good platform but a bit concerned over having cold/sleeper hard drives, is this because Binance can be hacked?

    Essentially an invest in Crypto for beginners is where I'm at but I fancy a go..

  2. #2352
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    I wouldn't go near Alt coins, certainly not as a beginner. Stick to Bitcoin and Ethereum

    Binance is pretty safe, but I wouldn't leave tens of thousands on it or any exchange, just in case.

    If you're talking £700, it might be worth the risk leaving in on the exchange as a Ledger wallet is £50-60

    If you plan to add to it, the ledger might be better in the long run

    Have a look at Coinbase to buy on too, easier UI but slightly higher fees and it's a UK company

  3. #2353
    I've been using SwissBorg - very easy to set up, bank transfers arrived quickly, nice app and low fees.

  4. #2354
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    I wouldn't go near Alt coins, certainly not as a beginner. Stick to Bitcoin and Ethereum

    Binance is pretty safe, but I wouldn't leave tens of thousands on it or any exchange, just in case.

    If you're talking £700, it might be worth the risk leaving in on the exchange as a Ledger wallet is £50-60

    If you plan to add to it, the ledger might be better in the long run

    Have a look at Coinbase to buy on too, easier UI but slightly higher fees and it's a UK company
    Quote Originally Posted by vulcangascompany View Post
    I've been using SwissBorg - very easy to set up, bank transfers arrived quickly, nice app and low fees.
    Thanks for the info, I'll look into those and hopefully join the crypto world soon.

  5. #2355
    Cheapest cold storage is a paper wallet just keep it safe.

    https://blockgeeks.com/guides/paper-wallet-guide/


    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    I wouldn't go near Alt coins, certainly not as a beginner. Stick to Bitcoin and Ethereum

    Binance is pretty safe, but I wouldn't leave tens of thousands on it or any exchange, just in case.

    If you're talking £700, it might be worth the risk leaving in on the exchange as a Ledger wallet is £50-60

    If you plan to add to it, the ledger might be better in the long run

    Have a look at Coinbase to buy on too, easier UI but slightly higher fees and it's a UK company

  6. #2356
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    Popular with Nigerians.

    I guess if your local currency isn’t up to much alternatives are welcome.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-africa-56169917

  7. #2357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Popular with Nigerians.

    I guess if your local currency isn’t up to much alternatives are welcome.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-africa-56169917
    How long before we're thinking the same?

  8. #2358
    GBP will be buccaneering it's way to domination so be careful buying btc

  9. #2359
    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    Thanks for the info, I'll look into those and hopefully join the crypto world soon.
    Swissborg only has certain coins on it, but if you sign up let me know I have a code that will increase your deposit.

    Easy to put in and pull out cash from it

  10. #2360
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangoosian View Post
    How long before we're thinking the same?
    I am pretty certain my dear old mum (no internet, no mobile) will be collecting her pension in cash for years to come.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  11. #2361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    I am pretty certain my dear old mum (no internet, no mobile) will be collecting her pension in cash for years to come.
    I'm pretty sure the dear old mum's in Nigeria (and Argentina, Venezua, South Africa, etc) also felt the same.

    Hopefully Sterling will be backed by something, rather than ink in the future.

  12. #2362
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangoosian View Post
    I'm pretty sure the dear old mum's in Nigeria (and Argentina, Venezua, South Africa, etc) also felt the same.

    Hopefully Sterling will be backed by something, rather than ink in the future.
    Backed by a government, which is a thousand times more than what bitcoin will ever have as a backing.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  13. #2363
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    Either March came early this year or there's still some way down to go.

    Bitcoin has fallen in March in 6 of the past 7 years, including a 25% decline last year and a 35% decline in 2018. It's easily the worst month on the calendar for BTC.

    https://www.forexlive.com/Orders/!/m...gnals-20210226


  14. #2364
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    Citi put out a in depth report on bitcoin today.. "At The Tipping Point"

    Summary article on it here with a link to the full 102 page pdf.

    https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/...-currency-citi

    Large institutional investors and organizations are choosing to participate in and support Bitcoin. Regulators are beginning to lay the groundwork for the asset to potentially enter the mainstream. Governments themselves are being pressured and many are re-considering their own currency offerings. The vision of Bitcoin as a force that will transform the world may seem self-evident in just a few more years. The fact this progression has occurred in just over a decade makes Bitcoin remarkable regardless of its future.

  15. #2365
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    Bitcoin money-shot imminent

  16. #2366
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKitega View Post
    Citi put out a in depth report on bitcoin today.. "At The Tipping Point"

    Summary article on it here with a link to the full 102 page pdf.

    https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/...-currency-citi
    From the Financial Times:

    Hey Citi, your bitcoin report is embarrassingly bad
    Truly one of the most shocking bits of “research” we have ever seen from an investment bank.

    On Monday one of the world’s top investment banks, Citi, put out a report called “BITCOIN: At the Tipping Point”, which has been causing quite a stir across the crypto-net and beyond. “Absolutely fantastic birds eye view of the bitcoin phenomenon from Citi,” tweeted crypto VC Nic Carter. “It’s incredibly well done and very fair. Highly recommend giving this one a read”. We have read this report, in which it is claimed that “bitcoin's global reach and neutrality could spur it to become the currency of choice for international trade” (!), and quite frankly we feel the idea that it is either well done or fair is absurd. We would highly recommend giving this one a miss (unless of course you want to share some ROFLs with a mate over the plethora of chart crimes it contains, which we will publish a separate post on). The report comes from Citi’s “GPS” division, standing for Global Perspectives & Solutions, which the bank describes as its “premier thought leadership product”, helping customers to “navigate the global challenges, identify future themes, and prosper in a fast-changing world”.

    So one might, as a result, expect some compelling visual aids. Instead, we get this graphic (do spend some time pondering that first stat):



    Do the six Citi strategists who wrote the report really believe that 36 per cent of small-to-medium businesses accept bitcoin in the US? We really don’t believe that they possibly could.

    And where does that stat even come from, we hear you ask? Luckily Citi points to a source: 99bitcoins.com, a site that “translates bitcoin into plain English”. Excellent. Later in the 108-page report we are told the statistic “seems wildly optimistic”. Still though, makes a nice graphic doesn’t it? Bung it in, why not?! They also tackle the tricky subject of Tether, the company that issues an eponymous dollar-pegged “stablecoin” that last week agreed to pay a $18.5m settlement to the New York attorney-general’s office after the latter found that the company had “recklessly and unlawfully covered up massive financial losses to keep their scheme going and protect their bottom lines”.

    Here’s Citi on Tether (emphasis ours):



    OK we are going to pause here. Apart from the fact that the whole 108 pages of Citi’s report are made up of readily disputed claims and absurd statistics that are recycled from websites like 99bitcoins.com, many of the arguments in this blog post were confirmed last week by the NYAG. Why is the amount of attention the post received “more telling” than the arguments themselves? They continue:



    The firm’s top-notch Bahamian bank is ADAMANT, guys. Who can argue with that!? Citi also tackles illicit transactions:



    Woah that’s a good stat isn’t it? That’s a lot of fraud! And for this stat the source is the Federal Reserve of America so we can trust this one, right? Let’s see exactly what the Fed says on that then, in the link they so helpfully provide:



    It seems that six strategists at Citi don’t know that there is a 100-fold difference between basis points and percentage points. SAD! After we pointed this out to Citi in an email, they said they were correcting it, but at this point the mistake still seems to be there. The problem with this truly horrifyingly bad report is that its “bitcoin could become the currency of choice for international trade” line is good for headlines, and it has already made several in the mainstream press, including CNBC, Reuters, Bloomberg, and Yahoo Finance, all of which have written up the report without the slightest question over its legitimacy.

    (...) Someone is shamefully wrong on the internet. Citi should retract this report immediately, not that they will. Citi declined to comment for this article.


    https://www.ft.com/content/8553aba7-...7-be6a08065444

  17. #2367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    She certainly has an amusingly cutting style which can make for reading as entertaining as it is informative. I very nearly put up a link last week to a less than deferential piece she wrote on Dr Craig S Wright's latest foray into the judicial process.

    https://www.ft.com/content/56ba5a61-...8-4f79bab4144d

  18. #2368
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    Plenty of naysayers have ridiculed bitcoin over the years... including many on here.. but slowly the large financial firms are changing their tune.

    Don't be the last.

  19. #2369
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    OOOH FOMO and herd following, what could possibly go wrong.

  20. #2370
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKitega View Post
    Plenty of naysayers have ridiculed bitcoin over the years... including many on here.. but slowly the large financial firms are changing their tune.

    Don't be the last.
    LOLZ.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  21. #2371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    OOOH FOMO and herd following, what could possibly go wrong.
    🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑😏

  22. #2372
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    Had an eye opening conversation with a long term tenant of ours, a young Polish couple. He’s been investing in start up/ alt coins. He’s turned 20k into 200k. Spends every spare minute researching new projects.

  23. #2373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Backed by a government, which is a thousand times more than what bitcoin will ever have as a backing.
    Government and ink. Wow, great, we'll trust them!

    Bitcoin is backed by it's energy network and the trust in code and proof of work. Some people get this, some don't.

  24. #2374
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    Had an eye opening conversation with a long term tenant of ours, a young Polish couple. He’s been investing in start up/ alt coins. He’s turned 20k into 200k. Spends every spare minute researching new projects.
    Well done to him. Shows there is money to be made if you DYOR. Hopefully he does not get too wedded to his alts though. Ride the bull whilst it lasts, but take profit too.

  25. #2375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    LOLZ.
    Thanks to you I bought some bitcoin at 20k. You have been the perfect contrarian.. short Tesla short the market. LOLZ

    Sent from my EVR-L29 using Tapatalk

  26. #2376
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    Had an eye opening conversation with a long term tenant of ours, a young Polish couple. He’s been investing in start up/ alt coins. He’s turned 20k into 200k. Spends every spare minute researching new projects.
    Not that difficult to make money in a two year raging bull market. Like the Robinhood traders who made their first trade in March 2020 and think they will rule the world coz stonks only go up.

    There are hundreds of thousand of people who think they are intelligent because they bought bitcoin or Tesla or Gamestop and it went up on them. That has nothing to do with investment skill.


    Quote Originally Posted by mangoosian View Post
    Government and ink. Wow, great, we'll trust them!

    Bitcoin is backed by it's energy network and the trust in code and proof of work. Some people get this, some don't.
    Bitcoin's energy network? What is that even supposed to be?

  27. #2377
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKitega View Post
    Thanks to you I bought some bitcoin at 20k. You have been the perfect contrarian.. short Tesla short the market. LOLZ

    Sent from my EVR-L29 using Tapatalk
    I have been both long and short Tesla during 2020, and have a massive long exposure to equities. My five biggest money making positions in the last year were 1. long NAKD, 2 short TSLA, 3 long PIC/XL, 4. TSLA puts 5. S&P calls

    Don't know where you take your info from but it's dead wrong.

    Good luck with your bitcoins.

  28. #2378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Not that difficult to make money in a two year raging bull market. Like the Robinhood traders who made their first trade in March 2020 and think they will rule the world coz stonks only go up.
    He started 5 years ago, long before the current run, so there must be some skill involved.

    And those Alt coins are a minefield- most go to zero. I was quite impressed to be honest, but he’s an impressive guy all round. He’s barely 25 too.

    I did tell him to be sure to chip out some profits as he goes, I hope he does.

  29. #2379
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    All Ponzi schemes make money for lots of people, except the bag holders at the end ...

  30. #2380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    All Ponzi schemes make money for lots of people, except the bag holders at the end ...
    Yes, I know. You've told us a dozen times.

    But the Alt coins (ponzi schemes in your patois) are all different and seperate, so how does he choose which to invest in?

    Blind luck?

  31. #2381
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    Seems like Ol' Stacking Sats Saylor just can't stop.



    https://twitter.com/michael_saylor/s...75915559792640

  32. #2382
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    I feel I’m way too late to the game but I might have a dabble in crypto over the next month.

    Thing is we have seasoned investors here that look at Bitcoin as some house of cards that will ultimately collapse, even though I know very little about crypto I think the current generation are very aware of it and see it as part of their future.

    They don’t see a house of cards they see a modern way of transaction and investing, it will not happen in our lifetime but I think traditional stock markets and currency will fade as more investment heads to crypto and other similar investments..

  33. #2383
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    Has anybody paid Capital Gains Tax on their crypto profits? I recently started reading about it and realised I'm going to have a problem...

    My record keeping is very poor to say the least. I have a number of coins bought across numerous exchanges over 5 years and only know the amount I hold and the average price each investment has cost me (in $ rather than £). How an earth do I explain that to the tax man?!

  34. #2384
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    CGT is only triggered when you sell the assets. And then you have a tax free allowance per annum. £12.7 ish iirc. Your records are more than adequate imo, but could be worthwhile seeking an accountant / Off-shore bank account* if the amounts are significant





    * I jest

  35. #2385
    Quote Originally Posted by relaxer7 View Post
    Has anybody paid Capital Gains Tax on their crypto profits? I recently started reading about it and realised I'm going to have a problem...

    My record keeping is very poor to say the least. I have a number of coins bought across numerous exchanges over 5 years and only know the amount I hold and the average price each investment has cost me (in $ rather than £). How an earth do I explain that to the tax man?!
    Yes I have. Read the advice on the HMRC website it’s very helpful. Mind you I get my accountant to do my return.

    Also note that any conversion (including crypto to crypto) may be a qualifying disposal from a CGT perspective so it isn’t “quite” as simple as only being due when you cash out. However, unless the quantities are large or you have other gains to factor in most of these are likely to be under your CGT allowance.

  36. #2386
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    There were some reports the CGT allowance could get chopped from a round 12.5 k pa down to 2 k p.a. in't budget, on Love Money IIRC.
    nevertheless there is an old saying, you should never let the tax tail wag the investment dog.
    Last edited by Passenger; 2nd March 2021 at 10:49.

  37. #2387
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    Yes, I know. You've told us a dozen times.

    But the Alt coins (ponzi schemes in your patois) are all different and seperate, so how does he choose which to invest in?

    Blind luck?
    Maybe toss a coin

  38. #2388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    There were some reports the CGT allowance could get chopped from a round 12.5 k pa down to 2 k p.a. in't budget, on Love Money IIRC.
    nevertheless there is an old saying, you should never let the tax tail wag the investment dog.
    I read that too, but really can't see the limit being reduced that much. It would bring so many people onto the tax and for most of those people, the cost of paying an accountant to do the tax return would be about as much as the return itself, so the exercise would end up being a colossal waste of people's time and money.

    Plus - the accountants may not be able to cope with all the additional work.

  39. #2389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    Maybe toss a coin
    There's a lot of correct tosses to get from 20k to 200k

    Having tried something similar in Las Vegas, I can say its more difficult than it appears :-)

  40. #2390
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    I observe massed herds bellowing joyously how they have made zillions on Bitcoin for a tiny investment. Bellow away boys, I still would not touch Bitcoin with a barge pole!

  41. #2391
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    There's a lot of correct tosses to get from 20k to 200k

    Having tried something similar in Las Vegas, I can say its more difficult than it appears :-)
    In a raging bull market a monkey can make money. In the 90s pretty much any tech stock paid out.

    It’s a momentum play and if you are in early and don’t get too greedy you can make easy profits.

    It’s easy to think your are a stock/coin picking genius when everything is going to the moon ... the real skills come later.

    If we ignore the current phase; how do people think the world will look like in 20 years if crypto prevails?

    Global digital currency? Or National crypto that mimics today’s model or some hybrid of the two? Or some other scenario?

    Most money is digital now anyway, it’s all just numbers on a computer, real cash is only about 3% of money is circulation.

  42. #2392
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    Bitcoin

    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Most money is digital now anyway, it’s all just numbers on a computer, real cash is only about 3% of money is circulation.
    That to me is the most compelling argument for crypto; money is literally just trust in a number system.

    Sure, it seems test anybody and everybody seems to be starting their own currency and I would expect almost all of them to disappear into the abyss but I can’t see any reason why a few of them can’t survive with enough trust having been built up in them to make them effectively just another currency.

    Not that I am in any way qualified to comment so it’s all just opinion.

    You certainly wouldn’t want to bet your shirt on it but I think Bitcoin and Etherium will be around for the longer term.
    Last edited by Dave+63; 2nd March 2021 at 18:58.

  43. #2393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    That to me is the most compelling argument for crypto; money is literally just rust in a number system.
    Isn't the GBP and USD and every other currency already digital currencies?

  44. #2394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Isn't the GBP and USD and every other currency already digital currencies?
    Yes, that’s whet I was alluding to.

    That’s why I can’t see any reason for it to collapse as long as the trust remains.

  45. #2395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    That to me is the most compelling argument for crypto; money is literally just trust in a number system.

    Sure, it seems test anybody and everybody seems to be starting their own currency and I would expect almost all of them to disappear into the abyss but I can’t see any reason why a few of them can’t survive with enough trust having been built up in them to make them effectively just another currency.

    Not that I am in any way qualified to comment so it’s all just opinion.

    You certainly wouldn’t want to bet your shirt on it but I think Bitcoin and Etherium will be around for the longer term.
    Things might change I guess, but in the meantime Crypto really isn’t being used as money as we know it, it’s a traded commodity with the trade as its value.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  46. #2396
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    Things might change I guess, but in the meantime Crypto really isn’t being used as money as we know it, it’s a traded commodity with the trade as its value.

    Exactly, crypto isn’t a currency or a means of exchange it’s a speculative asset. A very popular one currently.

    Most currencies are government backed and guaranteed to a level (£85k) in the uk that builds trust. I don’t see anyone offering the same trust in the cryptos. You just have to trust “the network “
    Last edited by Montello; 2nd March 2021 at 19:30.

  47. #2397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post

    Most currencies are government backed and guaranteed to a level (£85k) in the uk that builds trust. I don’t see anyone offering the same trust in the cryptos. You just have to trust “the network “
    I'm not disputing your point but not sure I understand it - the FSCS isn't so much an example of 'backing the currency' as far as I can tell, but rather an insurance against the collapse of a bank. Isn't that similar to booking an ABTA or ATHOL backed holiday?

    I'm still trying to understand the benefit that people claim of a currency being 'government backed'

  48. #2398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    All Ponzi schemes make money for lots of people, except the bag holders at the end ...
    I believe they call that 💎💎 🙌

  49. #2399
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    There's a lot of correct tosses to get from 20k to 200k

    Having tried something similar in Las Vegas, I can say its more difficult than it appears :-)
    Brave to try it, in my admittedly limited experience and that has only been in Atlantic City rather than Sin City, the House always won. Fun though, free drinks and food, while it lasted.

  50. #2400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halitosis View Post

    I'm still trying to understand the benefit that people claim of a currency being 'government backed'
    I think the argument is that if the Pound was to collapse into worthlessness you could go knock at the Government’s door for recompense. Good luck with that.

    (I fully accept that if Bitcoin collapses there won’t even be a door to knock at— not sure the end result would be much different mind)

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