Just a note for all you Bitcoin guys. There is nothing new here.
Alternative currencies have been around for 100's of years. Not one has ever survived.
There have been local currencies, cigarettes and even biscuits have been used as currencies.
They all died out for the same reason.
There are a number of Fintechs around who are offering alternative payment system which cut out the banks. Why one would require an alternative currency to achieve that is beyond me. And why anyone would think the value of a currency is determined by how many people use it as means of payment is completely beyond me.Originally Posted by aldfort
Blockchain will change the world. Bitcoin and other crypto currencies will not and they will all lapse worthless.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Yes you're right and wrong, goats and gold and chickens were replaced by coins and notes. Those coins and note reign supreme and many bankers get fat. Time for a change or alternative I think
RIAC
You should look into the reasons for failure of all the alternatives.
Also bankers don't get fat processing transactions. In fact processing transactions is a PITA for most banks.
Irrespective of currency the processing costs money. Looking for example at Bitcoin my understanding is rewards for processing go down over time.
Hint: what is half of your money used for?
Oh I agree with you - wasn't looking for assurance, but it is worth getting people's opinions as they have perspectives or ideas that you haven't considered or come across.
I am absolutely not bothered about a Lambo and I do enjoy it / am enjoying it. A vintage Porsche on the other hand and now you're talking (one like Saga in The Bridge drives).
I think you are wrong, on a couple of points but especially transaction costs. They make a good deal from transaction costs. Most are commercial, not the man in the street who in the I'll send to be benefiting mostly from free transactions simply because they have previously been making so much from business/commercial transactions.
It's just a matter of time...
600 crypto's have already failed...
https://bitcoinexchangeguide.com/deadcoins/
Cheers,
Neil.
Bit of a bounce up for cryptos, not sure why exactly, is it just a recovery from the massive falls over the last few weeks?
Because you use the token to pay for transactions on the network - it's effectively gas to pay for it
Likely to see a bounce when the price has dropped with such momentum. It will reach a point where it is oversold in panic and then it corrects. You can make money reasonably quickly off the bounce if you get lucky with predicting the floor. I wouldn’t buy in yet though...I reckon we will see a further drop on Sunday/Monday.
Also, for some reason, Thursday to Saturday evening/Sunday early morning regularly sees a rise.
Last edited by Christian; 3rd February 2018 at 16:47.
I’ve always put the rise at that time down to that’s when normal folk have the time to look and invest.
Could be. The other one I’ve seen regularly is the 2200-2300 UTC trading pattern. Regularly, for about half an hour between these times, the market seems to wake up. Usually lots of sell orders decrease the price followed by a rise just before 2300. It seems to then settle again. I’ve put this down to UK/Euro population trading before bed.
I'll have to accept your superior analysis of how retail and business banking works. Traditionally it has always been believed that banks make money out of lending.
I note the hint I gave has not struck a chord with anybody yet.
Is it worth repeating?
Where does half of your money go?
Why would a currency go up just because it's used to pay for transactions? Complete nonsense.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Tulips.
Is Bitcoin outside of any countries tax regime as it is not anything physical that can be said to reside a particular country ?
I am trying to help a friend who has an elderly relative who will go into a care home and the family want to protect their wealth. It seems that if a person has more than £23k in savings they have to use their hard earned wealth to pay the care costs, despite working and paying tax for more than 40 years. If somebody has lived a life of debt and saved nothing they get their care costs paid which is grossly unfair.
Put the money into Bitcoin to avoid paying care costs?
HMRC don't differentiate about the currency your wealth is in.
Neither do they care how you make a capital gain.
If you are UK domiciled your wealth is your wealth and you will be taxed on gains.
It is worth noting that HMRC are not accepting crypto currency to settle your tax bills.
Your friends would do better to see an IFA who has tax planning expertise which will include the sort of situation you are describing.
Thanks for the advice, you are right that they need to see somebody properly qualified and experienced in tax avoidance etc.
I was just thinking nobody in Bitcoin intends to pay any tax or have their wealth monitored, the whole point being it is outside any national financial control.
Speak for yourself.
Do your friends want to be thought of in the same way as these big international tax avoiding companies?
There are plenty of options to protect their savings that any good IFA will be able to advise on.
A company for carrying on an undertaking of great advantage, but nobody to know what it is.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
bitcoins is too volatile to put all savings into regardless. it really should be seen as an investment, a very risky one at that!
Given it has 100 billion coins, 0.1 or 0.2 of what?
GBP (or USD) I imagine.
Yes 10p or 10c would be a very good result.
Blockchain’s Broken Promises
Jan 26, 2018*NOURIEL ROUBINI
Boosters of blockchain technology compare its early days to the early days of the Internet. But whereas the Internet quickly gave rise to email, the World Wide Web, and millions of commercial ventures, blockchain's only application – cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin – does not even fulfill its stated purpose.
https://www.project-syndicate.org/co...oubini-2018-01
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Petrodollar? Having to buy oil in USD has maintained the USD
Wars are fought to maintain this position.
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Utter nonesense.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Nobody buys dollars in anticipation of future use for payments. The dollar may have benefited from being the pricing currency of oil (even though other opinions are available), but it hasn't multiplied many times over because of it.
Bitcoin will never be a means of exchange, much too expensive to trade and pay, and also too volatile.
Sorry, but this is nothing but a wet dream. Sell as long as somebody is prepared to give you something for it. It will be worthless.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
They do buy dollars as the use it to buy oil. No dollars, no oil.
Some non USD exchanges have been mooted over the years. This swiftly causes enemy number 1 rhetoric by the US and war.
The dollar has maintained a semblance of value due to oil, without it it would have plummeted.
Crypto may not be the solution but the proliferation of printing fiat money is not a solution either.
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No I was answering a different question. One around how does the currency have any value. The answer being that it's used to pay for blockchain transactions as you won't be able to pay with fiat currency such as GBP, USD etc
Why would I have to accumulate currency in anticipation of future payments? So far, nobody uses it for payments but people just speculate that someone will be prepared to but it from them at a higher price (bigger fool theory).
You cannot even but tickets for the North American Bitcoin Conference with bitcoin as the transaction fees are too high.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
It's speculation that's why.
Blockchain is going to be revolutionary- I think people who know about it understand that. Its 'gas' is their virtual tokens. Less than 0.01% of the population currently holds any of these tokens. If this tech matures then many more people will need to have them. These tokens are either limited or created in lower numbers as time goes by. So supply is less than demand hence price goes up.
Or this may all end up being a load of crap and the tokens worthless. I don't know but neither does anyone else. Let's see.
Boo-hoo, the miserable none-coiners are feeling the pinch.
Trotting out the same, tired old 'warnings', the same furry old tax advice and various proclamations of what the future holds and how best to value it. Thanks for the advice, but you can probably assume most of us already know how much/little is sensible to invest, that HMRC like us to pay CGT on gains, how much use an IFA really is in this area and that trying to predict the 'market' is a fools game.
Given the nature of the product/game, you should assume that most people involved in crypto are smarter than the average bear, and are often far better informed than the doom merchants (Nobel prizewinners, banking CEO''s, politicians and other economic experts included) firing off their tired old Ponzi/tulip warnings.
Its only to be expected. The media, the banking and finance industries, governments etc have been bashing crypto since day 1. Day 1!! The sad thing is, you only need a modicum of knowledge to see how full of holes, desperation and factual inaccuracies these 'warnings' are. Yet, as with everything they read, many are happy to repeat the same tired BS, without doing any independent research (yes, this is the part of the post you quote while getting very indignant about all the research you have actually done........a) reading the Telegraph AND the Guardian does not count as research; and b) you're in the minority).
Old ideas of taxation, old ideas of economics, old ideas of how value is created and stored. Just, old ideas that we become affiliated to through use and exposure. Given the amount of sentimentality that washes through this place, clinging to old ideas, forms and concepts is to be expected. Indeed, it is often championed...
Just be sure to leave a pound-shaped space in that glass display case, next to the mechanical calculator and the bound copies of Top Gear Magazine.
What you have to remember is this; we got this far with no help from any official body or institution, no positive media coverage whatsoever, very limited mainstream adoption and all the while getting called-out as drug dealers and fraudsters! And yet despite this, the industry is now valued in the USD100's of billions. This is why governments are worried, because despite their best efforts, they havent been able to influence or direct this technology. And despite their efforts, it has grown, and grown and grown.
Beware grass-roots movements, they are coming to eat your lunch, spotted dick and all.
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Too funny.
If you want to have a punt on crypto's then that's great, have a punt.
However I'd urge you to study financial bubbles as a general historical thing. If you do you'll note they are all exactly the same and characterised by a mania.
So far history indicates most ordinary folk lose their shirts in such a mania, no doubt this time it will be different.
My own view is that all the big investment houses are all ready piling in and bundling these new crypto products so you can invest in them. The old stockbrokers trick of using your money to offset the risk to them. I can't see anything new or revolutionary or alternative. It might have been grass roots once but I'd suggest that period ended long ago.
If I'm wrong I'll throw myself on your charity.
BTW - "Given the amount of sentimentality that washes through this place, clinging to old ideas, forms and concepts is to be expected." - this is a site dedicated to the discussion of a totally outmoded technology, the mechanical watch, what other sort of reaction do you expect from the majority?
Thanks for seeing the humour ;-)
I agree with most of what you write and yes, this may no longer be powered on a grass roots basis. However, my point was that a grass roots movement powered this industry until relatively recently, months not years. Take away the current 'mania', mainstream discussion, institutional support (?), adoption etc and you will be left with that grass roots movement, that continues to grow. Strip it back and there will always be a growing core that adopts, promotes and drives it forward. To these, there will always be value in crypto.
'History indicates' that a lot of social change movements follow a similar path. That is, until they reach an inflection point and achieve mainstream adoption they are derided, ignored or outlawed. And yes, I do equate this with social change.
Critics would do well to consider everything else that is going on in this world, the changes taking place around us, and that the longevity of crypto should not be looked at in isolation, but within the context of high speed, high technology, de-centralisation, devolved power, globalisation and a growing movement for socio-economic change. You only have to look at some of the posts on this thread to see how this sentiment is reflected by a growing number of our members. Like I said, we are coming for your desk-lunch, flat white and all ;-)
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I agree with a lot of what you say - in fact I saw first hand how grass roots the crypto space was in the UK just less than 2 years ago.
But coming for my flat white? You, Sir, have gone too far! A man's flat white is his own personal kingdom.
So long as its single estate, fairtrade and in a reusable cup, yer' in a good place buddy.
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Do I get extra points for having it served by a man-boy with a fully grown beard and turned up jeans with braces?
Now you're moving backwards :-)
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I'm going to get out of this thread as it seems no place for a double espresso drinker.
Before I go I will just clue you in on the next big thing in trading currencies. It will be the "allotment grown vegetable". You lads and lassies who like a punt on this sort of cutting edge stuff should get in this now while it's still a grass roots movement. I does not rely on block-chain but the much more subtle and energy efficient device known as "spoilage". This ensures an amount of the currency is automatically devalued and if it's not "eaten while fresh" and thus fulfilling it's primary purpose. However there is a sort of safety parachute to recover some of the value from "spoilage", this is know as "compost" which can be used as a sort of seed capital to create more "allotment grown vegetables". Once you are into this new currency you'll need to learn how "trimmings" can also be made into "compost" to create even more "allotment grown vegetables".
Don't bother searching the internet, this is all dark web stuff controlled by "mulchers". You will find a strange vocabulary designed to mystify the ordinary folk, words such as dibber, rotovator, and phrases such as "pricking out". Do watch out for "seasonality" though and pay attention to "rainfall" which can totally crash "allotment grown vegetables" or cause an oversupply (technical term is glut) which destroys the value unless you understand the technique known as "preserving".
Best of luck.
Am ahead of you, amigo. Saw the potential for scale and bought a farm a few years back. Happy to share best practice on all of the above, and my preserving is second to none.
Home canned tomatoe sauce on the pasta last night and preserved figs and peach compot on cereal this morning. Thats living.
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Ah you are a "farmer", I bow to your superior knowledge.
Post of the year
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RIAC
I'm amazed at the indignation, apparent knowledge and righteousness displayed by posters on this thread who feel it's important to let others know how foolish and stupid they are at investing in crypto currencies. Why would they give a $hit? It's not like it's their money they are risking.
Nobody knows the future, but a future in currency not controlled by institutions I never supported is a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned. The old guard is finished. The obscene polarity of global wealth is finished. A future that offers a level playing field is the right future to fight for. Crypto is going to be that future. Get used to it!
It’s been many many years since banks made a serious percentage of their money from lending - that’s why there is a current call for traditional banking.
I’m not taking the hint.
I have no idea where half your money goes, but ...Half my money goes to the family, ex and our kids, 25% to the tax man, and the rest I use for essentials and frivolous purchases.
It's just a matter of time...
Nope it's because people in Asia start waking up. You see another increase in volumes between 1pm and 2pm when the East Coast of America wakes up.
I'm amazed at the indignation, apparent knowledge and righteousness displayed by posters on this thread who feel it's important to let others know how they are investing in crypto currencies. Why would they give a $hit...
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
As per the title, it's a post on Bitcoin for those interested in sharing their acquired knowledge and experience of Bitcoin and other crypto currencies. If you have no interest and think it's a crock of $hite, not sure why you feel the need to waste your time posting on this thread?
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