Bitcoin

[Itsguy]

Surely crypto is like a snake eating its own tail though, as it is in isolation as a asset, it doesn't make anything or do anything like a typical stock in a company or commodity, it has to rely on its value relative to a real currency to have worth, you only really have the money when you cash out into 'real' money. If it destabilises the real money market then it destabilises itself?
Global finance is a delicate thing, if crypto goes too mainstream and unregulated and untaxed etc and it starts to weaken the status quo then it may cause real world problems, it may be a long while off though of course.

That may be true of Bitcoin, but it’s less true of Etherium and some alt coins. The coins are part of, essentially, a distributed supercomputer that actually does something useful. In the case of Etherium, smart contracts that autocomplete when certain conditions are met, in the case of XLM and XRP efficient international money transfer, in the case of VET inventory tracking, and so on. The demand and value for money of these services can be analysed and projected in a normal way. Of course the coins are still subject to speculation, but there is something there. Bitcoin seems more elusive, it’s valuable for as long as we agree it is, a bit like a gold watch. In fact, thinking that Bitcoin may be a bit like the Rolex of cryptos, desirable because it’s well known and everyone else wants one, makes me a little more convinced by it. Though so far, not convinced enough to own any.

[Passenger]

I wouldnt say its greed, if you can put £200 into something and 6 months later that £200 is worth £70k why wouldnt you, anyone would take that deal if they knew those odds.

I'm interested in it and getting to know the basics of how it all works, I just wish I educated myself on crypto 2-3 years previously..

Come now isn't that sort've proposition ie bet 200 gbp and 6 months later it's worth 70k, guaranteed to get even the most jaundiced, sceptical punters salivating...and still no business case or fundamentals...it's a valueless shell as Raffe observed, a narrative designed to appeal 'bigly' to greed and the fear of missing out...the perfect ponzi for our post truth times.

[murkeywaters]

Come now isn't that sort've proposition ie bet 200 gbp and 6 months later it's worth 70k, guaranteed to get even the most jaundiced, sceptical punters salivating...and still no business case or fundamentals...it's a valueless shell as Raffe observed, a narrative designed to appeal 'bigly' to greed and the fear of missing out...the perfect ponzi for our post truth times.

Its human nature that when something is doing well the naysayers are the ones not involved, also if you can invest play money that has a good chance of x5/10x/100x+ then frankly why do you care if there is or isn't a business case, its an investment to return a profit - that's all it is.

Saying that, I think most solid crypto's are only in their infancy of what they are here to do and what they will achieve, Cardano for instance is moving to a form of relaible currency in 3rd world countries where their own currency is subject to high inflation and corruption, TelCoin is doing something similar with mobile communications in poorer countries.

Move all the guff to one side and I think crypto is here to stay and it will only get stronger.

[Passenger]

That may be true of Bitcoin, but it’s less true of Etherium and some alt coins. The coins are part of, essentially, a distributed supercomputer that actually does something useful. In the case of Etherium, smart contracts that autocomplete when certain conditions are met, in the case of XLM and XRP efficient international money transfer, in the case of VET inventory tracking, and so on. The demand and value for money of these services can be analysed and projected in a normal way. Of course the coins are still subject to speculation, but there is something there. Bitcoin seems more elusive, it’s valuable for as long as we agree it is, a bit like a gold watch. In fact, thinking that Bitcoin may be a bit like the Rolex of cryptos, desirable because it’s well known and everyone else wants one, makes me a little more convinced by it. Though so far, not convinced enough to own any.

But we already have things like Transferwise for International money transfer, it's dead easy to use and you get great rates and it's safe and secure.

[Itsguy]

But we already have things like Transferwise for International money transfer, it's dead easy to use and you get great rates and it's safe and secure.

To be brief, that’s not all XLM and XRP do, there’s more to it than that, but you can read up on it and make up your own mind about how much demand there will be for them in future, and if there’s a good reason for doing these things via blockchains. With VET, I can see good reasons why you might want to track the supply chain of luxury goods via a blockchain, and it’s designed so the higher the price of the coins goes, the more work they buy on the system. So it doesn’t seem like pure speculation, it’s more a case of deciding if demand for that service will grow in future. You could look at some of these projects as investing in the creation of distributed supercomputer, it’s up to you to decide if it’s a useful one.

[Raffe]

Its human nature that when something is doing well the naysayers are the ones not involved, also if you can invest play money that has a good chance of x5/10x/100x+ then frankly why do you care if there is or isn't a business case, its an investment to return a profit - that's all it is.

Saying that, I think most solid crypto's are only in their infancy of what they are here to do and what they will achieve, Cardano for instance is moving to a form of relaible currency in 3rd world countries where their own currency is subject to high inflation and corruption, TelCoin is doing something similar with mobile communications in poorer countries.

Move all the guff to one side and I think crypto is here to stay and it will only get stronger.

If you don't care whether it has a business case and are just buying because you are seeing a good chance of s x5/10x/100x+ return, you cannot call it an investment.

That is an contradiction if there ever was one.

[Passenger]

To be brief, that’s not all XLM and XRP do, there’s more to it than that, but you can read up on it and make up your own mind about how much demand there will be for them in future, and if there’s a good reason for doing these things via blockchains. With VET, I can see good reasons why you might want to track the supply chain of luxury goods via a blockchain, and it’s designed so the higher the price of the coins goes, the more work they buy on the system. So it doesn’t seem like pure speculation, it’s more a case of deciding if demand for that service will grow in future. You could look at some of these projects as investing in the creation of distributed supercomputer, it’s up to you to decide if it’s a useful one.

Fair enough.

[murkeywaters]

If you don't care whether it has a business case and are just buying because you are seeing a good chance of s x5/10x/100x+ return, you cannot call it an investment.

That is an contradiction if there ever was one.

Okay, let’s call it a calculated gamble then, whatever name you call it it’s still profit on top of stake money if it goes x5/x10/x100..

[Devonian]

Question if anyone can help - what's an alternative to Coinbase to withdraw funds. A colleague has telcoin in Kucoin and withdraws it in coinbase which he set up easily and was allowed to withdraw within 24 hours. I set up coinbase a while back and sent all the relevant ID across and since then it keeps saying that it's still under review and will take a few days and to come back and check, which is what I've been doing. There doesn't seem any way to contact them so any suggestions for an alternative to transfer my Kucoin funds into? TIA.

[PJdB]

I've been able to withdraw funds from Swissborg within seconds.

[KingKitega]

I've used Kraken and transferring funds in and out take minutes for me.

Been staking my DOT on there for 12% return too which is nice.

Sent from my EVR-L29 using Tapatalk

[murkeywaters]

Question if anyone can help - what's an alternative to Coinbase to withdraw funds. A colleague has telcoin in Kucoin and withdraws it in coinbase which he set up easily and was allowed to withdraw within 24 hours. I set up coinbase a while back and sent all the relevant ID across and since then it keeps saying that it's still under review and will take a few days and to come back and check, which is what I've been doing. There doesn't seem any way to contact them so any suggestions for an alternative to transfer my Kucoin funds into? TIA.

I transfer USDT from Binance to Kucoin and then convert to TelCoin with no problem, going the other way should be okay but you would have to convert the Telcoin to another crypto like USDT so that it is accepted by Binance.

[Devonian]

I transfer USDT from Binance to Kucoin and then convert to TelCoin with no problem, going the other way should be okay but you would have to convert the Telcoin to another crypto like USDT so that it is accepted by Binance.

Hi thank you, some of it is now in USDT in KuCoin so if I open a Binance account can I transfer it to there and withdraw easily?

[Vanguard]

Question if anyone can help - what's an alternative to Coinbase to withdraw funds. A colleague has telcoin in Kucoin and withdraws it in coinbase which he set up easily and was allowed to withdraw within 24 hours. I set up coinbase a while back and sent all the relevant ID across and since then it keeps saying that it's still under review and will take a few days and to come back and check, which is what I've been doing. There doesn't seem any way to contact them so any suggestions for an alternative to transfer my Kucoin funds into? TIA.

You can only contact them by email but don't expect a reply anytime soon, one email I sent them took over a month to get a reply to and after all that they still didn't answer the question, I use Kraken now as their customer service is much better and they even have live online chat support, Coinbase considering they are the most retail focused exchange have utterly awful customer support and are best avoided.

[murkeywaters]

Hi thank you, some of it is now in USDT in KuCoin so if I open a Binance account can I transfer it to there and withdraw easily?

I imagine you could, I have not tried it yet but all your doing is connecting the wallet address from Kucoin to Binance.

If your dealing with a bit crypto its good have a Binance account anyway as its good, secure and fees are low.

[Macca]

What’s everyone’s thoughts on the more stable coins .. I must admit I’ve had a bit in cosmos at times and now DAI, with the latter being dollar linked it seems to steadily rise with the dollar and there’s a reward of 2% apy on Coinbase, cosmos I think pays 5%apy and has cash reserves behind it allegedly bigger than the coins in circulation …
They seem to have made steady gains for me rather than yo yo about like the others


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[demonloop]

Anyone here?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...e-20694645.amp

[xellos99]

Bitcoin like shares is bull. You can mess about with it for decades and then some little moron comes along, buys a knackard house, does it up and sells it and makes more money than you did and they barely did anything and it took them a fraction of the time.

[Macca]

Anyone here?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...e-20694645.amp

That’s crazy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Passenger]

Bitcoin like shares is bull. You can mess about with it for decades and then some little moron comes along, buys a knackard house, does it up and sells it and makes more money than you did and they barely did anything and it took them a fraction of the time.

Hey I resemble that remark

Though tbf it can be quite a lot of work, depending, 'sweat equity' the Yanks call it. Admittedly not as 'exciting' or meme worthy as the crypto craze though, more likely to have paint/ plaster/ varnish on your hands rather than diamonds, least in the early days.

[Raffe]

Bitcoin back over 40k

It's so quiet here, suppose it's almost at 50k by now?

[Doug86]

'bought the dip' this morning......and it's dipped further. Standard.

[petethegeek]

Anyone here?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...ngham-57280115

So how are they supposed to make a profit with cruddy old equipment like this if they have to pay for the electricity as well?

[demonloop]

It's so quiet here, suppose it's almost at 50k by now?

Under 40k :-(

Apologies for the lack of updates — been out with the kiddies all day :-)

[Raffe]

Under 40k :-(

Apologies for the lack of updates — been out with the kiddies all day :-)

Same here. Nothing will ever beat that.

[mr noble]

You have 6 kids and 21,000,000 posts? How on earth do you manage life??



(I know they're not all your kids)

[Raffe]

One mine, five borrowed.

I wish I had more of them, nothing on this planet that gives me remotely as much fun and satisfaction as being with children.

[KingKitega]

One mine, five borrowed.

I wish I had more of them, nothing on this planet that gives me remotely as much fun and satisfaction as being with children.

One thing I 100% agree on there Raffe! Have a great weekend sir.

Sent from my EVR-L29 using Tapatalk

[Raffe]

One thing I 100% agree on there Raffe! Have a great weekend sir.

Sent from my EVR-L29 using Tapatalk

Same.

[Macca]

One mine, five borrowed.

I wish I had more of them, nothing on this planet that gives me remotely as much fun and satisfaction as being with children.

I agree with you on that, I am lucky enough to have a son and two daughters, best thing I ever did was having them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nickyboyo]

Aren't kids just wonderful, unfortunately mine have all grown up.

Roll on grand children

Sent from my IN2013 using Tapatalk

[nickyboyo]

Tapatalk went bonkers sorry, looking through a mirror through a mirror

[dkpw]

"Hell is other people. The lowest reaches of hell, other people's children."

Sorry, but that is true.

[demonloop]

One mine, five borrowed.

I wish I had more of them, nothing on this planet that gives me remotely as much fun and satisfaction as being with children.

Agreed!

[demonloop]

My oft-mentioned Stock to Flow chart isn’t looking great right now. Price has dipped below the line by a margin that’s only happened a few times in the past. If it continues to stay stagnant or drop further, God knows where it could end. Zero, I expect Raffe will say :-)

[petethegeek]

My oft-mentioned Stock to Flow chart isn’t looking great right now. Price has dipped below the line by a margin that’s only happened a few times in the past. If it continues to stay stagnant or drop further, God knows where it could end. Zero, I expect Raffe will say :-)

Oddly enough I just happened to check the other day, whilst sorting something else out and your wager with Raffe reaches the midpoint in a fortnights time.

[demonloop]

Oddly enough I just happened to check the other day, whilst sorting something else out and your wager with Raffe reaches the midpoint in a fortnights time.

Do you remember off hand the price when we opened the wager? Without me scrolling back a zillion pages?

[petethegeek]

Do you remember off hand the price when we opened the wager? Without me scrolling back a zillion pages?

A quick check of my notes suggests that the closing price for BTC on Coindesk was $17954 on the 19th of November 2020. As I understand it though, the wager depends only on the price of BTC as the bells ring in 2022. (Greater/less than $50000.)

[Raffe]

A quick check of my notes suggests that the closing price for BTC on Coindesk was $17954 on the 19th of November 2020. As I understand it though, the wager depends only on the price of BTC as the bells ring in 2022. (Greater/less than $50000.)

https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...=1#post5592768

[petethegeek]

[Raffe]

I liked your self-made chart with the added MSTR better.

[demonloop]

Thanks both. I had thought it was below 20k but wasn't sure by how much

With the current price 37k, I'm still confident

I think it will come down to timing actually in the end

[mr noble]

DL - If you'd said "BTC will hit $50k in 2021" I still think many would have taken a bet against you.


As you say, it'll all come down to timing. I fully expect BTC to pass $50k again before Christmas, but whether it's still past that point on NYE.....??

[Raffe]

I am sure this is only FUD.




Full thread here.

[Montello]

I am sure this is only FUD.




Full thread here.

Does not sound good but is the guy a credible analyst?

[demonloop]

If Binance goes under it’ll be a huge blow to the whole crypto market.

[Geoff W]

Doubt it will cease operating but it may well close to new users for a few months (Trading 212 for example is currently closed to any new UK users while they sort out their support systems), amend T&Cs on what you can do on the platform. Their CEO is chastising Elon Musk on Twitter for being reckless , he might want to focus on this.

[Raffe]

Doubt it will cease operating but it may well close to new users for a few months (Trading 212 for example is currently closed to any new UK users while they sort out their support systems), amend T&Cs on what you can do on the platform. Their CEO is chastising Elon Musk on Twitter for being reckless , he might want to focus on this.

Yes saw that.

He was happy to ride with Elon on the way up, but now it's "not funny".

Only in 2021.

[Montello]

If Binance goes under it’ll be a huge blow to the whole crypto market.

I doubt it would ever go down as they would just finance any issues in creative ways.

The crypto fans seem to have forgotten about the Mt. Gox issue; I suspect most BTC owners have never heard of Mt. Gox.

People don't tend to worry about these setbacks unless they are personally impacted.

[demonloop]

I doubt it would ever go down as they would just finance any issues in creative ways.

The crypto fans seem to have forgotten about the Mt. Gox issue; I suspect most BTC owners have never heard of Mt. Gox.

People don't tend to worry about these setbacks unless they are personally impacted.

I have 500usd on Binance in a coin not supported by my hardware wallet. That’s as much as I would ever leave on an exchange.

Whilst not impacted by Mt Gox myself it is certainly worth bearing in mind.

I wouldn’t trust a stranger with my pocket wallet, same rules apply with crypto etc